D2 Spring rate dilema & options

[MickG]

I still have a few specific questions after searching older topics at length.

Originally I set my '99 D2 up for some touring and camping so went for a firmer set up, but recently I have been doing more off road stuff and generally driving around town so, I am looking at options for softening my suspension ride up considerably as it is too harsh. I'm off road regularly so it still has to perform well in the bush. I currently have OME springs and shocks giving me a 2" lift on my '99 manual D2 with ACE, winch bar (no winch) and run 265/75r16 Muds. Suspension specs below according to ARB.

FRONT
SPRING = Part no. 777/180lbs
SHOCK = Part no. N107/open 608mm, closed 373mm
REAR
SPRING = Part no. 762/300-340lbs
SHOCK = Part no. N108/open 593mm, closed 363mm

Given the fact that I have ACE and want a much softer ride (I am willing to sacrifice some ride height when loaded) what springs and spring rates would people suggest for front and back? Once the springs are in, depending on ride quality with the current OME shocks, I would then like to achieve more articulation if I can, so shock suggestions would be appreciated also. Don't want to extend ABS or brake lines but have heard I can unclip ABS lines in the wheel arch to give more travel.

Keen to hear from others who are pleased with their set up.

Aye, Mick

[MickG]

Quick update

Some more research has suggested my comfort problem may lie in my shocks and not the springs?? As this is an area I know very little about, your feedback is very much appreciated.

Aye, Mick

[seqfisho]

Mick,

A call to Les Richmonds will get you sorted, I think Andrew is the suspension whiz, he should be able to provide the spring rates and lengths your chasing as well as what valving you will require for shocks.

The other place to try would be Slunnie, Brooksy, or Gidget as they have all done lifts on their trucks with good results.

The D2 yahoo board might also be worth a try.

[discowhite]

Old man emu shocks are very stiff from what ive been told!
there are 108's and 108C's the ''C'' is softer.
i would change your rear spring rate to something closer to
250/280lb.
the front rate is bout right.
try these links.

https://www.expeditionexchange.com/ome/indexshocks.htm

https://www.expeditionexchange.com/ome/inde...ndexsprings.htm (https://www.expeditionexchange.com/ome/indexsprings.htm)

slunnie
http://www.slunnie.com/

cheers phil

[tombraider]

Originally posted by MickG

FRONT
SPRING = Part no. 777/180lbs
SHOCK = Part no. N107/open 608mm, closed 373mm
REAR
SPRING = Part no. 762/300-340lbs
SHOCK = Part no. N108/open 593mm, closed 363mm



Mick

Change to N107C and N108C shocks. This will give a nice ride with your spring combo.

Been there, done that, then we upspecced again and run 107 and 108 Firm like you have and upped springs to 360Lb rears.

She still flexes but theres a lot mroe onboard now.

This is on a TD5 Auto Ace, with Bar, Winch, Rear storage system, Big tank, Custom rear bar etc...

Cheers
Mike

[walker]

Mick, hopes this helps.

I have a D2 with ACE, bar & winch.

I was running custom 150lb springs on the front. The were made by Brown springs in Melbourne (only cost $140/pair) and were just a bit over 2.5" longer than standard and gave me a 2" lift. I had these paired with Tough Dog shocks and they gave a fantastic ride. Across the Simpson Desert I had no fade and no bottoming out even fully loaded and unloaded on day trips they gave great flex.

I can't help out much on the rear as I have SLS but with ACE I would be going for maybe 20lb more than standard but longer.

If you are in Melbourne, I have the springs which I had in the front for sale - $80 and they are yours.

[MickG]

Cheers for all the input guys, very helpful.
Spoke with Andrew from Les Richmond today who was very helpful indeed. Have also spoken with Brooksy and Slunnie recently - they both know their stuff also.
I think I am going to try and do it in stages :roll: . Probably fit new shocks (Bilsteins) all round first as I suspect that the OME shocks in the front particularly are a bit too stiff. By all accounts, it sounds like the spring rate in the front is about right and depending on ride quality after fitting the shocks, I will look at doing the springs, probably end up with about 270lbs in the rear and 180lbs in the front although I want to go soft so maybe as Walker suggests, around 150lbs in the front might be the go with the ace. Do you have a contact number for the Browns springs Walker?
Question is though can anyone suggest what sort of valving and lengths I should consider for the shocks - are there many options for the Disco 2? If I do consider going for 150lbs in the front later, will I have to take this into account now when specifying the valving etc on the shocks? I don't know much but would assume that the shock should be valved to match the spring so if I try and fit the shocks first and keep the current spring in for the time being, I'm not really giving myself a true indication of how it should perform.
Hope you are all still following me and you can see I am pretty confused by the whole process :oops: . Think I will give Andrew at Les Richmond a call again tomorrow and get something going. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Appreciate everyone's input again and please keep all and any thoughts coming.

Aye, Mick

[tombraider]

You want it softer and are going Bilstein?
Hmmmm... OK! 8O

Billies are stiffer than the OME shock.

Slunnies were custom valved to suit his vehicle.

As for coils. The D2 with bar and goodies flex just fine on OME 779s and 300-340 rears.

Slunnie is running both those rates.

They are a brilliant compromise for all round use.

We have 225lb/360lb in the D2 with ACE and can still hit the bump stops with no worries.

I know it was asked, but what tyres and what pressures are you running?

Cheers
Mike

[walker]

Cummon, you can't even compare Billies to OME. If I could afford Bilsteins I would have them in a shot. And you would custom valve them anyway.

And with ACE you just don't need the springs that hard

[tombraider]

Here we go the great debate :!:

- Billies are monotube, prone to knocks which stuffs them instantly.
solution: fit heavy metal shielding which negates the cooling benefits of a monotube shock.

- Billies cost nearly twice that of OME. So working on 2yr/40,000km warranty I should get 4 years from 2 sets of OME at the least.

-Leading shocks eg... LR rear, are prone to stone damage, the twin tube is mroe resiliant to this damage.

- Billies are valveable, yes, at a price. The OMEs are pretty good value out of the box. Billies are valved rather stiff for D2a and experience on a D1 showed cracking on corrugated tracks to a Billie installed D1, the other D1 to same spec springs/load ran OME which worked fine with no damage.

A D2 owner running Billies suffered major cracking on a trip to the radiator support panel, he removed the Billies, fixed the panel and hasnt had a repeat incident.

Try getting a Billie in Pt Headland etc... OME has stuff everywhere most of the time.

As for springs. A soft spring with ace works fine on "side to side" rolling. But ACE bears no use under pitching or bouncing.
Not as pronounced on a SLS Disco as the rear bags are 'variable' rate. and counteract a lot of the pitching but a sprung Disco will slam soft springs down so hard it regularly hits the bumpstops. A laden disco 2 will always exagerate this effect.

Spring rates are not too hard if they ride the corrugations well and still flex when offroad and crossed up.

My defender had 295lb fronts and 360lb rears and would cross up to the bumpstops offroad (Ask Pete Sneig at MLR) The only specification change occured when I replaced the front bar/winch combo which reduced mass. And lightened the rear by modifying the cargo draws.
Now I run 220Lb fronts and 320Lb rears.

This setup still fully flexes offroad and is comfortable on the roughest tracks.

Considering I run Dual LTRs on each corner the ride is lovely.

To quote a Landy suspension specialist.
When fitting dual shocks we use OME or Koni.
The Bilstein shocks are valved so firm they become very excessive used in pairs. At best if a firmer ride is desired we run 1 Bilstein, 1 OME.

Cheers
Mike

[tombraider]

Here we go the great debate :!:

- Billies are monotube, prone to knocks which stuffs them instantly.
solution: fit heavy metal shielding which negates the cooling benefits of a monotube shock.

- Billies cost nearly twice that of OME. So working on 2yr/40,000km warranty I should get 4 years from 2 sets of OME at the least.

-Leading shocks eg... LR rear, are prone to stone damage, the twin tube is mroe resiliant to this damage.

- Billies are valveable, yes, at a price. The OMEs are pretty good value out of the box. Billies are valved rather stiff for D2a and experience on a D1 showed cracking on corrugated tracks to a Billie installed D1, the other D1 to same spec springs/load ran OME which worked fine with no damage.

A D2 owner running Billies suffered major cracking on a trip to the radiator support panel, he removed the Billies, fixed the panel and hasnt had a repeat incident.

Try getting a Billie in Pt Headland etc... OME has stuff everywhere most of the time.

As for springs. A soft spring with ace works fine on "side to side" rolling. But ACE bears no use under pitching or bouncing.
Not as pronounced on a SLS Disco as the rear bags are 'variable' rate. and counteract a lot of the pitching but a sprung Disco will slam soft springs down so hard it regularly hits the bumpstops. A laden disco 2 will always exagerate this effect.

Spring rates are not too hard if they ride the corrugations well and still flex when offroad and crossed up.

My defender had 295lb fronts and 360lb rears and would cross up to the bumpstops offroad (Ask Pete Sneig at MLR) The only specification change occured when I replaced the front bar/winch combo which reduced mass. And lightened the rear by modifying the cargo draws.
Now I run 220Lb fronts and 320Lb rears.

This setup still fully flexes offroad and is comfortable on the roughest tracks.

Considering I run Dual LTRs on each corner the ride is lovely.

To quote a Landy suspension specialist.
When fitting dual shocks we use OME or Koni.
The Bilstein shocks are valved so firm they become very excessive used in pairs. At best if a firmer ride is desired we run 1 Bilstein, 1 OME.

Cheers
Mike

[walker]

Hee hee hee! I knew my comments would get a lengthy post from you. :wink:

But seriously, I know you are pro OME, but after having them on the Jeep & Disco I would not choose to have them again. They are ok value for money but after having both OME & Tough Dog I would go TD if I wanted a value for money shock. The OME on the Jeep was just plain bad (I dont think ARB put a lot of effort into the Jeep shock but you can't blame them) and was too firm for me on the Disco.

I have Bilstein on the Rangie but it came with them already on it.

[tombraider]

Originally posted by walker
But seriously, I know you are pro OME

Actually not pro OME, but pro value for money.

Having said that I run LTRs so never have fade or performance issues.
OME are a good $/performance equation.
TD are ok but pricey and not specifically valved to a vehicle.

On a disco OME offer 2 the Comfort and the Heavy. So 2 preset choices already. We did have comfort front/Heavy rear for a while too....

Considering the price of the OME I believe for most applications theyre fine. And about as long as you can go without modifying lines etc...

Tough Dogs I cant see value for the $$$

Many, Many vehicles travel miles on OME and TJM shocks with no problem.

Jeeps arent a good example though, the American wallow can only be killed by stiff valving!!!! :twisted:

Cheers
Mike

[walker]

Originally posted by tombraider

Tough Dogs I cant see value for the $$$


I only paid $600 for a set of 4 Tough Dogs. I don't know what OME cost but it must be comparable.

Anyway, it's late, go to bed Old Man https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[MickG]

Now that's just thrown it all up in the air. I was unaware that the Bilsteins may be firmer than OME and as I am trying to soften my ride, I will need to do more research......jees this is tough 8O Only thought of going the Bilsteins after talking to Andrew from Les Richmond although we never got on to speaking about valving etc.

One thing though, I have never come near to hitting a bump stop - I don't think - as I don't really drive very hard and at present am not doing any long distance touring - or short distance for that matter. When off road the OME set up does do it's job well but as it spends most of it's time on road - with rear drawers, compressor etc still on board, I really want to try and find a smoother ride as it really is VERY harsh.

Tomeraider, you asked about tyres, I run 265/75r16 BFG muds at 30 psi all round on road - any thoughts.

Walker, when you say "with ACE you don't need the springs that hard", do you mean as hard as mine (180 fr & 340 r) or just that hard in general?

Anyway, I will keep on searching for the right set up but I am willing to spend $ if it will make a sgnificant improvement. Having said that as my OME kit has only been on the car for just over a year and has done about 30,000k's, if I can keep certain parts and combine with another set up, that is a bonus.

Again thanks for the input and PLEASE keep all suggestions coming as I am very new to suspension options.

Aye, Mick

[walker]

Yes as hard as yours. As I said I had 150lb springs on mine and it was perfect. I know 2 others who also run 2" lifts with 150lb front springs. You only need 180lb springs if you DON'T have ACE.

For the rear I would go 20lb more than standard but get it longer for a lift. You wont be disapointed with the ride but it will sag a bit when loaded.

The lighter the spring the better the suspension must work, it's just physics.

If you are in QLD it may be worth speaking to Dobinson Springs and see if they will custom make springs. Or look up the phone book and see if there are any spring manufacturers in Brisbane. You will pay half the price of off the shelf springs and get what you want.

As for shock absorbers, it's totally up to you. Another alternative may be the tough Dog 9 way adjustable shock, this way you can dial it in for what you want. Or any other adjustable shock....just not Rancho.

[Redback]

My only comment about this is,

I have the so called 2" lift with OME springs and Bilstiens shocks, yeah right, in reality it's only 40mm when new and 20mm to 25mm when it has settled.

When i first installed them i measured before and then installed, then measured after, i got 45mm at the front and 40mm at the rear, 4mths later i measured them again as i'm going for new shocks and springs again as the OMEs have sagged and won't take the weight anymore of the camper and gear in the back, just under 25mm rear and 20mm at the front.

No OME springs this time and no Bilstiens either, this setup (hopefully) will cope, i'm going Lovell springs and Procomp or Tough Dog front, i'm keeping the Bilstiens in the rear untill they need replacing, as they are still good (only new replaced under warrenty a couple of months ago) the fronts however are not good and to short anyway for the new lift.

My setup will be the same as Slunnies and Gidget, without the 33s :cry:
I'll stay with the 31s because of the towing i do as 33s will just kill the power when touring, and not to mention the fuel economy.

Baz.

[MickG]

Originally posted by walker
For the rear I would go 20lb more than standard but get it longer for a lift. You wont be disapointed with the ride but it will sag a bit when loaded.

The lighter the spring the better the suspension must work, it's just physics.

If you are in QLD it may be worth speaking to Dobinson Springs and see if they will custom make springs. Or look up the phone book and see if there are any spring manufacturers in Brisbane. You will pay half the price of off the shelf springs and get what you want.

As for shock absorbers, it's totally up to you. Another alternative may be the tough Dog 9 way adjustable shock, this way you can dial it in for what you want. Or any other adjustable shock....just not Rancho.

Thanks again Walker, excuse my ignorance but what would the standard spring rate be for the rear of a D2 - no rear seats if that makes a difference? 270lbs in the rear has been suggested, would that be about right to you think? I like the idea of 150 in the front as I really want to soften the ride up but maintain the 2" lift - will have a chat with Dobinsons at some point today. As for shocks, adjustables are probably streching the budget a bit but will see what Dobinson recomend to match their spring and then assess everyone's recomendations from there.


Originally posted by Redback
My setup will be the same as Slunnies and Gidget, without the 33s Do you mean 4" lift? I would liike to stay with the 2" but am concerned that going softer springs will mean some slight sag or do they make the springs to eventually sit at the desired height - meaning, would a softer spring sit higher than a stiffer one when laid side by side on the ground?

Cheers again all, Mick

[Redback]

Originally posted by MickG+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MickG)</div><div class='quotemain'>

<!--QuoteBegin-Redback
My setup will be the same as Slunnies and Gidget, without the 33s Do you mean 4" lift? I would liike to stay with the 2" but am concerned that going softer springs will mean some slight sag or do they make the springs to eventually sit at the desired height - meaning, would a softer spring sit higher than a stiffer one when laid side by side on the ground?

Cheers again all, Mick[/b][/quote]

Yes it's the 4" lift but i think after they settle it will be about 3".

If you want a genuine 50mm and you get OME springs i'd add 20mm spacers to them, but you'll have to extend your ABS & brake lines and you'll need longer shocks too.

And yes if you go to a softer spring they will be taller to get the lift, Brooksie went for a 3" lift with King springs so i would assume that once they settle that would give you what you want, PM him he could help.

Baz.