Alternator - Various Fault Codes

[Narangga]

Sooooo...

Vehicle was used last weekend. It sat until Wed arvo when it was driven 10km to Humpty Doo, stopped, restarted and driven 10km home. Friday afternoon it was started to drive 5km to Coolalinga and the battery light was illuminated. After she did the shopping, wife drove home with light still on.

I arrived home and prior to starting the vehcile investigated with a Nanocom and found that fault code P0625 Generator field terminal - circuit low (intermittent) was present. Removed Traxide kit cable from starter battery to aux battery just in case.

Cleared all faults, started vehicle and battery light is still on. Read fault code P0622 Generator field terminal circuit (intermittent).

Searched internet and this forum and sent a message to Ean asking if I could borrow his spare alternator (the one I carried with me to Adelaide & Alice and fortunately didn't need). Ean generously (:BigThumb:) came down this afternoon and replaced mine with his spare.

Upon start up battery light came on but disappeared after about a minute. Ran vehicle for about 3 minutes and Nanocom was showing 14.8V with 15.3 when taken to 2000rpm. Traxide still disconnected. Shut down and tidyied up engine bay and Ean went home. I went inside for a short time and then went to take the vehicle for a run.

Started OK and I spent about a minute setting the clock and then when I backed out of the shed the battery light came on! Nanocom read fault code P0626 Generator field terminal - circuit high (permanent).

Removed Traxide from system and no change. Had purchased a new battery this morning for another reason and was able to fit that and again no change.

Any thoughts on what it might be folks? Going to try one more thing relating to the UHF which comes off the starter battery.

[Narangga]

Removed UHF power lead and also a lead going to an Anderson plug on the rear. Both leads came of the positive lead from the battery. Made no change.

One other thing which I had no reference to as this is the only D3 I have seen - when the positive lead is placed on the battery this is quite an arc or spark. Ean noticed it reconnecting the battery this afternoon. I had thought it was normal.

[Oztourer]

What is the battery voltage when charging and with the ignition off? Also, what is the history of the spare alternator you fitted? Is it a "new" spare or refurbished?

[LandyAndy]

Havent got a loose or damaged earth lead Dale?????
Also have a good look at the hot lead to the starter .
Sounds like something is very wrong.
GOODLUCK
Andrew

[Ean Austral]

What is the battery voltage when charging and with the ignition off? Also, what is the history of the spare alternator you fitted? Is it a "new" spare or refurbished?





The spare alternator was removed from my car when I did the timing belts at 132K and was working fine when removed , the only reason I replaced it was I had the car apart and had a new alternator so was easy to do it at the same time.


Cheers Ean

[Ean Austral]

A problem with the D3 is the Alternator and the Starter are run thru the same cable , I am guessing a fault in the starter could cause damage to the alternator as they are not fused between the 2 only at the battery.




Some of the more knowledgeable on here may know if that is at all possible.


Cheers Ean

[LandyAndy]

Worn starter motor contacts drawing too much power????
Has it been starting sluggish despite fully charged batteries Dale?????
Andrew

[Narangga]

Worn starter motor contacts drawing too much power????
Has it been starting sluggish despite fully charged batteries Dale?????
Andrew

Spins like a top every time. Even when battery was 11.9V.

[Narangga]

What is the battery voltage when charging and with the ignition off?

I did not check that but battery charged out of the vehicle was back over 12V when I put it in.

New battery bought earlier today was at 12.48 when I tried it in the vehicle with the battery light still on.

[Narangga]

I have also checked Fuse 20 in the engine bay and it appeared OK. Will put a new fuse in later today just in case.

[Narangga]

What is the battery voltage when charging and with the ignition off?

Checked battery this morning and 12.11V after being connected overnight.

Attached charger and after a minute or so was at 12.46V. Have left on charge and will check when I get home after lunch.

[drivesafe]

Hi Dale, before you do anything else, reconnect the Traxide setup and give BOTH batteries a good charge.

By a good charge, you need to leave the battery charger charging them for at least 8 to 10 hours after the charger has gone into FLOAT Mode.

From what you have posted about your driving habits, you are actually flattening the batteries because you are continually starting the motor, which uses lots of energy and then you are not driving long enough to allow the alternator enough time to replace that used energy.

This is what I call the Shopping Trolley Syndrome and you are just progressively discharging your batteries overtime you drive.

If after a good charge, the light has gone out, then you will need to repeat this charge cycle a few times to get your batteries back into a good condition, so they will hold a charge better.

[Narangga]

Hi Dale, before you do anything else, reconnect the Traxide setup and give BOTH batteries a good charge.

By a good charge, you need to leave the battery charger charging them for at least 8 to 10 hours after the charger has gone into FLOAT Mode.

From what you have posted about your driving habits, you are actually flattening the batteries because you are continually starting the motor, which uses lots of energy and then you are not driving long enough to allow the alternator enough time to replace that used energy.

This is what I call the Shopping Trolley Syndrome and you are just progressively discharging your batteries overtime you drive.

If after a good charge, the light has gone out, then you will need to repeat this charge cycle a few times to get your batteries back into a good condition, so they will hold a charge better.

Thanks for the time and effort to post Tim. I understand how busy you have been.

I am certainly aware of shopping trolley syndrome and endeavour to get a decent drive in on the weekends. The week before last weekend it actually had more running than usual.

In reading back through what I had posted I realised that when the listed fault codes were present on the old alternator, the live Nanocom reading for the battery was 11.1 or 11.3V. When the battery light came on with Ean's alternator the live reading again became 11.3V.

I have commenced the charge you recommended Tim and when that is complete I will see what happens once I restart the vehicle.

[Ean Austral]

Hi Dale, before you do anything else, reconnect the Traxide setup and give BOTH batteries a good charge.

By a good charge, you need to leave the battery charger charging them for at least 8 to 10 hours after the charger has gone into FLOAT Mode.

From what you have posted about your driving habits, you are actually flattening the batteries because you are continually starting the motor, which uses lots of energy and then you are not driving long enough to allow the alternator enough time to replace that used energy.

This is what I call the Shopping Trolley Syndrome and you are just progressively discharging your batteries overtime you drive.

If after a good charge, the light has gone out, then you will need to repeat this charge cycle a few times to get your batteries back into a good condition, so they will hold a charge better.

Gday Tim,

As Dale said , thanks for the reply. I am wondering why when we fitted the spare alternator why it showed as charging, my multi meter said 14.4 v and when Dale pushed up the revs his nanocom said as high as 15.3v and the light was off.
I packed up and headed home and 20 mins later when the car is started the voltage is low and it's not charging , yet when we first fitted it by all accounts the spare alternator was working.

Cheers Ean

[drivesafe]

Hi again Dale and Ern, can I make a suggestion.

If you have not already done so, try doing a HARD RESET, and see if this fixes things, but only do this after the charging is finished.

[Narangga]

Thanks for that suggestion Tim. I will do that once the charging is done.

[Graeme]

I would be looking for a broken wire at or near the signal connector at the alternator. That the fault is intermittent, it went away when the alternator was replaced but soon returned along with the fault codes indicating a field signal error suggests that its not a low battery state of charge situation.

[Ean Austral]

I would be looking for a broken wire at or near the signal connector at the alternator. That the fault is intermittent, it went away when the alternator was replaced but soon returned along with the fault codes indicating a field signal error suggests that its not a low battery state of charge situation.


Thanks Graeme , I was a bit concerned the plug on the back of the alternator could have been put back on the wrong way as the plug was quite brittle. It turns out the pins are offset so it only fits 1 way.


Cheers Ean

[Graeme]

If the housing has become brittle from heat then the connector sockets may also have become loose or be tarnished enough to not make good contact.

[Narangga]

If the housing has become brittle from heat then the connector sockets may also have become loose or be tarnished enough to not make good contact.

Thanks Graeme. I will be getting the original alternator checked tomorrow so that will provide a little more information.

Fortunately the vehicle is not needed in the next week so another alternator swap is on the cards for next weekend which will allow checking of the housing etc.

[Narangga]

Having charged the batteries overnight I checked the voltage at the starter battery at 6.40am this morning. With charger on it was 14.0V and when I turned the charger off it was at 13.11V. I checked at 6.55am and voltage was 12.92V.

I took the old alternator to an auto electrician and they had hoped to have a look at it today but didn't call me so obviously they didn't get to it.

I came home and checked the battery voltage and it was 12.43V. I plugged in the Nanocom and with the ignition on II the live data showed a voltage of 12.0V. I started the vehicle and the battery light remained illuminated. The live reading slowly went up through 13 to 14 and then 15 before peaking at 15.9 when the 'bings' commenced, the dash warning lights came on and the message centre displaye 'communication with transmission lost not all gears available' of some such, then 'park brake fault' etc.

Turned engine off and read the fault codes:

U0010 Medium Speed CAN Communication bus (pending): ECU Instrument Pack
U0132 Lost communication with ride level ctrl module / Lost communication with suspension module A: ECU Instrument Pack
P0626 Generator field terminal - circuit high (intermittent): ECU Engine Management
P1934 Vehicle speed signal (intermittent): ECU - Engine Management
P0563 System Voltage high (pending): ECU - Transfer Case
P0563 System Voltage high (pending): ECU - Auto gearbox
P0500 Vehicle Speed sensor A (intermittent): ECU - Auto gearbox
C1A00 Control Module (intermittent): ECU - Parking Brake
C1A00 Control Module (intermittent): ECU - ABS System
U0402 Invalid data received from transmission control module (pending): ECU - All Terrain Control
U0416 Invalid data received from vehicle dynamics control module (pending): ECU - All Terrain Control
U0403 Invalid data received from transfer control module (pending): ECU - All Terrain Control
U0155 Lost communication with instrument cluster control module (intermittent): ECU Body Control
U0300 Internal control module software incompatibility (intermittent): ECU - Body Control
U0010 Medium speed CAN communication bus (intermittent): ECU Audio Front Control
U2003 Fibre optic communication bus (intermittent): ECU Audio Front Control


So I will now wait until I either have my old alternator returned to me in certified working order or purchase a new one. I will put whichever of those it is in the vehicle. While doing that I will be able to check the wiring of the plug for the alternator which may well be part of the issue.

I will also procure a new starter battery to be used at the same time - to eliminate the current one as a possible cause/problem/influence. Current start battery is a Century DIN85LMF of 780CCA. It was put into the vehicle the day before I purchased in on 1 Sept 2015.

[Graeme]

It appears to me that most ecus shut down and most probably due to excessive voltage. I would go straight to the wiring for the connector on the alternator. If the alternator hadn't been swapped then I would suspect the regulator.

[Narangga]

Thanks Graeme. At Ean's prodding I found that the battery in our Tarago is the same configuration as the D3 so I swapped that over and with both the DBS connected and disconnected with no accessories or lights on the vehicle does exactly as I described in my post above.

Will check the wiring and plug when we replace the alternator.

[drivesafe]

Hi Dale, if you swap the alternator and get the same high voltages, start looking for a loose earth cable.

Also measure the voltage at the cranking battery terminals and make sure it is a runaway alternator/regulator.

[vee8auto]

Also, check the earth from the drive train to the body, I'm guessing there is a large flexible earth strap somewhere down low.?? If that connection is going high resistance it might be attracting gremlins.

[Narangga]

Hi Dale, if you swap the alternator and get the same high voltages, start looking for a loose earth cable.

Also measure the voltage at the cranking battery terminals and make sure it is a runaway alternator/regulator.


Also, check the earth from the drive train to the body, I'm guessing there is a large flexible earth strap somewhere down low.?? If that connection is going high resistance it might be attracting gremlins.

Thanks - will do both.

[Ean Austral]

I am just curious , if we pulled the plug off the back of the alternator , but left the feed wire that goes back to the battery on the alternator then ran the engine would we be able to do any fault finding ?

From what I see on the wiring diagram the 3 wires on the plug feed power to ECU's . I assume that we would see ECU's faulting but would we be able to determine if the alternator has a faulty regulator and be able to measure what charge is at the battery ?

Cheers Ean

[Graeme]

There's not much chance of the regulator in both alternators being faulty in the same manner.

Pin 1 of the connector provides the battery voltage to the regulator. You should be able to measure the voltage without the engine running (might need the ign on - I haven't checked the wiring diagram) to confirm that this wire isn't broken. If the voltage isn't the same as measured at the battery then there is a fault with this sense wire.

Pin 2 is a pwm signal from the ecm to the regulator to control the alternator. If no pwm signal is detected (using an appropriate device) then the ecm is not able to provide control.

Pin 3 is a pwm feedback signal from the regulator to the ecm to monitor the alternator. The existence of a pwm signal at the connector does not prove that the ecm is receiving the signal.

Engine earth should not be an issue as the starter runs.

[Narangga]

Auto Electrician checked out the alternator and said that the Field Control Unit had failed and it was not worth repairing. He also said the clutch for the pulley had ceased working and so it was locking (no longer a freewheel pulley). The alternator had also got hot at some stage. I have ordered a new alternator and it should be here in Darwin tomorrow.

The old alternator he said is a Denso. It does not have Denso marking on it but does have the part number A-4068. An internet search turned up a Polish website:

https://en.as-pl.com/p/A4068(DENSO)

which confirms Denso but 105 Amp not 150. However mine does have the connector at the rear of the alternator.

A further search says this is the alternator for a Ford Focus 1.8 TDCi :eek2:

That may explain why the pins on mine where upside down to your alternator Ean.

The alternator I have ordered is an aftermarket with a OEM (Denso) Field Control unit, 150 Amp, 8 rib freewheel pulley.

[Narangga]

The $620 alternator arrived this afternoon and Ean again generously came down to swap it over. Fortunately he arrived before the downpour. ;)

The issue with the spare alternator turned out to be that the plug with the 3 wires that connects onto the alternator was half broken off and so on a hot Sunday afternoon Ean had inadvertently pulled it off the old alternator and then pushed it on the spare in the same direction. HOWEVER on the spare alternator the plug was 180 degrees rotation to the old unit. Hence the plug was connected the wrong way around!

New alternator, plug on correct way - all is well!

[LRD414]

Graeme is right again :)

Cheers,
Scott

[LandyAndy]

Bloody backyard mechanics:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p
ENJOY
Andrew

[Narangga]

Bloody backyard mechanics:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p
ENJOY
Andrew

Can't say to much about that....

Very generous with his time and he does work in the right industry. :D

And it was stinking hot last Saturday afternoon. [bigsad]

[Graeme]

The issue with the spare alternator turned out to be...That certainly explains the apparent but unlikely coincidence of 2 dead regulators including one that had been working when removed.

[Ean Austral]

Don't worry , no one feels dumber than me , but in all fairness the plug housing is broken and whereas normally with the full housing you can't put the plug on the wrong way around , but with the broken housing it was possible.

If Dale was stuck and needed the car I would have driven back and looked at it and we would have picked it, but he was getting his alternator checked and a 65km round trip was easier when we were going to do the swap than doing it and coming back a couple days later.

It's actually a good lesson , it is possible to put the plug on the wrong way around even tho the pins are offset if the plug housing is brittle and damaged.

That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it :p:p

Cheers Ean