I feel sick to the stomach, white supremists speech in Washington.

[bob10]

Where is this heading.

'Hail Trump': alarm over white nationalist Nazi salute | The New Daily (http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/world/2016/11/22/spencer-speech-nazi-salute/?utm_source=Responsys&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20161123_TND_1)

[incisor]

you aint seen nothing yet...

[Kbj]

Don't fall for the liberal media propaganda they lost the election for the Clinton foundation so now they will hound Trump forever. Very poor losers.

[Chops]

Yep, this stuffs been going on for years in the back ground,,, no doubt it'll be in the forefront now, it'll sought out and it will be milked for all its worth.

[bob10]

I'm old enough to remember sitting around the dinner table, after WW2, listening to those who fought, talk about the rise of the Nazis in Germany. Most of the conversation ended up with " how did the German people allow it to happen. " Please don't try to explain it to me, I've made a study of it, and that is why I'm worried now. In the back of my mind, I have this nagging thought, ' Hitler didn't have the bomb,' Now, I'm not suggesting Mr Trump has any intention of going down the Nazi road, I just think he made that many promises he can't keep, woke up the radicals, and I don't think he knows what he has started. Or could control the beast if it takes on a life of its own, A LA Germany, in the 1930's.

[rangieman]

There is a storm in the bottom of someone`s tea cup:p
Glad i drink coffee;)

[bob10]

There is a storm in the bottom of someone`s tea cup:p
Glad i drink coffee;)

Rangieman. That sounds very like the attitude of middle class Germany, back in the 30's. What did Churchill say?

'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' (George Santayana-1905). In a 1948 speech to the House of Commons, Winston Churchill changed the quote slightly when he said (paraphrased), 'Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.'

[rangieman]

Rangieman. That sounds very like the attitude of middle class Germany, back in the 30's. What did Churchill say?

'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' (George Santayana-1905). In a 1948 speech to the House of Commons, Winston Churchill changed the quote slightly when he said (paraphrased), 'Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.'


I am not middle class German or decent and i was not around in the 30`s;).
I like many have learnt from history and i am also very interested in history and the war years , Having many very close relative`s involved during WW2 and latter war`s i am very aware of what you say .
But times have changed and moved on for the better .
So yes from history i remember the past maybe not as much as you also we should not live in the past but yes learn from it and the mistakes ;)

[tuesdayfox]

Time for another massive organized murder of young people. Either it's conducted in the names of countries or race or whatever.

[tuesdayfox]

War has helped the world out of economy crisis twice now. And now we are in the same **** but can't afford a nuclear war.

[bob10]

[QUOTE=rangieman;261 .
But times have changed and moved on for the better .
;)[/QUOTE]

I agree with everything you say, but for this. I respect your opinion, and really hope my gut feelings are wrong.

[DiscoMick]

I think we're going backwards and headed for disaster, but I hope I'm wrong.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-23/jo-cox's-killer-thomas-mair-found-guilty-of-murdering-british-mp/8052290

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[DiscoMick]

Its not over yet - there's going to be a recount.

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[EastFreo]

Two weeks ago we had a gentleman advising us at work. He was previously a very senior Whitehouse official who has also worked with FEMA, Homeland Security and the US Airforce. He also served under Bush and more latterly Obama.

He was quite emphatic about the bureaucratic machine that sits under the President and how it, regardless of side of politics, will curb a President's ability to move too far.

[bob10]

This article explains quite a bit.

White supremacy's inferiority complex - Al Jazeera English (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2016/11/white-supremacy-racial-inferiority-complex-161129104031285.html?utm_source=Al+Jazeera+English +Newsletter+%7C+Weekly&utm_campaign=67259a04cf-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2016_12_04&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_e427298a68-67259a04cf-225425297)

[DiscoMick]

Sitting in the KLia2 airport terminal I am again amused at how the Asian girls in the posters have been photoshopped to be as white as possible. They are whiter than the central Chinese, whiter even than the western white girls. I haven't seen a single female here today who looks even close to the poster girls.
I think this shows how we are being swayed to believe that white is more beautiful than brown or black.
Personally, I think that's rubbish. I see plenty of really beautiful brown and black women. Those AirAsia flight attendants - wow!
I dont see how the white supremacists can justify their argument that white is better, except by closing their eyes to the real world and hiding in a sad little white ghetto.

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[bob10]

I can't help feeling that if communities came to full employment, a lot of the problem would melt away. Middle America has been promised this, hopefully it happens

[Pickles2]

There is a storm in the bottom of someone`s tea cup:p
Glad i drink coffee;)
Yep.
I grew up in post WW11 England, can't remember the Blitz, but my Mum & Dad could, living in Manchester, and my wife's parents lost many relos & friends living in London.....bombed out of, and killed in, their homes. I remember the aftermath, the destroyed buildings, the poverty, the rationing, all that stuff, which we all took for granted, because we had to, we were all in the same boat!! My Mum's cousin was the Chief Torpedo Officer on "The Hood".
I have also made a study of WW11 from many angles, I have also studied Nazi history, which I found very interesting, but profoundly distressing with respect to their racial views, which we would all be aware of. So yes, I know the issues, .....and there are no similarities to anything in current U.S. My wife's father was German, and He actually fought in the German Army during WW11. He was taken prisoner post invasion, taken to Canada as a P.O.W., and when the war finished, like many German ex P.O.W.s He went to England, where most of them worked on farms, which is where he & Wifey's Mum met. He was never interested in returning to Germany.
Yes, there are "ratbags",..there are ratbags everywhere, & yes, in some of those Southern States there are some very nasty people, but they have always been there...and IMHO they will never have any real influence, although they may like to.
Some people in Aussie actually get into a "racial frenzy" when they talk about Pauline Hanson,...not me, nor many many others, when we see some of the stuff going on here in Aussie.
I'd be far more concerned about what is going on in Aleppo (have I spelt it right) at the moment. What Russia is doing there is far more worrying than a bunch of loonies in the U.S.
I think Bob mentioned in one of his posts about negativity, and I do agree, there is a lot of it about. I was on my walk yesterday (trying to lose weight!), and I was walking along the beach, and thought what a wonderful country we live in, & how very lucky I was to live here,..I'm HUGELY positive about that. I AM LUCKY to live here. But the future,...not so much I'm afraid. I think Australia is changing, and I believe my grandchildren will grow up in a very different Aussie to the one I knew. Maybe negative?....well probably, but it's just the way I feel.
Pickles.

[DiscoMick]

I agree with most of that. We are one of the safest, most prosperous and harmonious countries in the world, but we are increasingly negative, even though we have little to complain about, compared with most countries. Our national mood is souring, and it makes me concerned for our children and grandchildren. Winter is coming.

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[bob10]

There seems to be an underlaying current of anger in society nowadays. My parents and their cohorts grew up during the great depression, they had nothing, but as they like to tell us, they were happy with nothing. Their generation go out of their way to help those who are worse off than themselves, always have. It's no big deal to them, just what they do.
Most people today live like kings & Queens, compared to them, back in the day. But people are not happy today. Just look at some of the anger displayed on [ anti] social media. The anger manifests itself in different ways, road rage, random assaults, coward punches, the list goes on. I, too, am concerned about where we are heading. All we can do is ensure our part of this World ,our family groups, and friends, are supported and nurtured, and loved.

[Pickles2]

There seems to be an underlaying current of anger in society nowadays. My parents and their cohorts grew up during the great depression, they had nothing, but as they like to tell us, they were happy with nothing. Their generation go out of their way to help those who are worse off than themselves, always have. It's no big deal to them, just what they do.
Most people today live like kings & Queens, compared to them, back in the day. But people are not happy today. Just look at some of the anger displayed on [ anti] social media. The anger manifests itself in different ways, road rage, random assaults, coward punches, the list goes on. I, too, am concerned about where we are heading. All we can do is ensure our part of this World ,our family groups, and friends, are supported and nurtured, and loved.

Hey Bob, We have some common ground.
My Grandfather was a Church Of England Vicar in a Parish in South Wales (U.K.) during the great depression. He was the Vicar there for over 30 years.
It was a coal mining area, and an area of extensive poverty, and TERRIBLE working conditions. During the great Depression, during which period, the Communists were trying to gain influence in the area, GrandPa was in charge of the Soup Kitchens which you've probably read about,....VERY tough times. Some people think the Clergy were well off, well paid...????...Let me tell you,..in those days, absolutely wrong,....they did it very tough too, ....they're a lot better paid these days.
Pickles.

[Chops]

Humm, the last few posts here seem to sum up quite a few feelings of old and new, and all very true.
So all we need to do now, is keep posative and hope the powers that be hear stuff like that and do more to help people in general, stay on the straight and narrow. Ensuring jobs and education will help immensely, which in turn will help people stay in control of their lives and keep a good mood with good morals so as not to go out of their way to annoy others.
Ones beliefs can be hard to turn in any direction, and of course, who's to say which direction is the correct one. Everyone feels "they" have the right answers, but we all know that's not necessarily the case.

[bob10]

Hey Bob, We have some common ground.
My Grandfather was a Church Of England Vicar in a Parish in South Wales (U.K.) during the great depression. He was the Vicar there for over 30 years.
It was a coal mining area, and an area of extensive poverty, and TERRIBLE working conditions. During the great Depression, during which period, the Communists were trying to gain influence in the area, GrandPa was in charge of the Soup Kitchens which you've probably read about,....VERY tough times. Some people think the Clergy were well off, well paid...????...Let me tell you,..in those days, absolutely wrong,....they did it very tough too, ....they're a lot better paid these days.
Pickles.

Yes, when we were growing up we heard many stories, along the lines of " you young fellas have nothing to complain about, when I was your age.....".
The men had to leave their families and go on the wallaby- walk for days with a swag, billy for tea, syrup, flour & water, looking for work. The scourge of the outback, the rabbit, kept many a family alive. Bread and dripping was a luxury. Dad had to leave home at 15, and worked on a property out near Birdsville. They drove cattle over the border to a railhead somewhere. He said he loved every minute of it. Didn't get paid, worked mostly for food & board. He said it made him appreciate the good times, when they came. Toughened him up, he said. Just as well, came in handy fighting the Japanese, up north.

Mum can't remember the property he was on, pity. I'd like to see if it's still there. No matter how tough things became in the years after the War, when we kids came along, I never saw Mum or Dad despair. As a matter of fact, that whole generation of Australians were tough. Nothing seemed to phase them , and if they saw a fellow human in trouble, they helped. They wouldn't stand rubbish, woe betide some one who hurt a woman. Or a child.

I remember one of Dads' sayings was " always treat people as you would want to be treated". When I look around at the Australia of today, I reckon a little bit of that philosophy would come in handy. Another thing he used to say, about people being downtrodden was " You can only kick a dog so many times, before he will turn on you and bite". Wise words, especially in our times. Any way, enough rambling.

[Ausfree]

After reading through this Thread I feel really down. Crikey, there are some dismal views aired in some of the posts, time to lighten up methinks.:)

https://www.google.com.au/webhp'sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=monty%20python%20always%20look%20on%20the%20br ight%20side%20youtube

[bob10]

Right back at you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk

[Pickles2]

"Do as you would be done by", is what my Mum & Dad used to say to me, & is what I passed on to my children.
Pickles.

[DiscoMick]

Re. road rage, after being in an old taxi driving into Yangon today, I can't understand what Aussie drivers have to rage about. They should get out and experience a real traffic jam. Then they'd realise how easy they have it.
The most mind bending part of it, apart from streams of vehicles jammed together, fighting for space with lumbering dirty battered old buses, was that they drive on the right like Americans, but the steering wheels are also on the right like in Australia! Did my head in it did.


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[incisor]

So yes, I know the issues, .....and there are no similarities to anything in current U.S.

you may need to do a little more reading... particularly post 1929 pre 1939

there are plenty of parallels unfortunately including the nationalistic calls to make the nation great again, the rhetoric marginalising one or more sections of the community by blaming them for the current economic woes, talk of isolating other countries, talk of great national projects to get the poor working including building/rebuilding the national road network, the size of the national debt, the rise of localised militia and the list just keeps going on and on.

lots of differences too, to be sure, i agree

but there are many similarities also that are a bit of a worry.

hopefully the conversation will change and your view is the one that wins out in the end but there are many that are concerned with the tone of the rhetoric when a nation that size is perceived to be moving closer to fascism.

time will tell the tale and hopefully there are some lessons that have been learnt.

[Pickles2]

Well Dave, whilst I do have a somewhat negative, "pessimistic" view of the future, because I see our current standard of living & "wants" as unsustainable, I do not see any risk at all from right wing extremists,..absolutely none,....and I have done PLENTY of reading about the rise of National Socialism, particularly 1933-39, (after that it was just war, no rise of anything,..except horror).....probably one of my main hobbies in my younger days, reading about that stuff,...if you looked at a couple of my book cases, you'd probably think there was a Nazi in the house!!...So yep, I do know a bit about them.
So yes, I do see Aussie going downhill, I've seen it for several years, and I believe that trend will continue.
I ain't gonna start no war, I'll leave that to the people in C.A., but no,.... right wing extremists will be the least of our worries in Aussie, I'll just say that our problems will arise from the exact opposite side of the "Political Spectrum".
There are those on this Forum who are EXCELLENT with "figures", I'm not one of them, but if they're around in 5-6 years time, to compare now & then, well then, whether I'm right or wrong, "the proof will be in the pudding"!
Pickles.

[cuppabillytea]

I can't help feeling that if communities came to full employment, a lot of the problem would melt away. Middle America has been promised this, hopefully it happens

Correct me if I'm wring because I haven't bothered to check, but last I heard 40% of working Americans were living below the poverty line without health insurance, despite many of them working more than one job

[cuppabillytea]

Well Dave, whilst I do have a somewhat negative, "pessimistic" view of the future, because I see our current standard of living & "wants" as unsustainable, I do not see any risk at all from right wing extremists,..absolutely none,....and I have done PLENTY of reading about the rise of National Socialism, particularly 1933-39, (after that it was just war, no rise of anything,..except horror).....probably one of my main hobbies in my younger days, reading about that stuff,...if you looked at a couple of my book cases, you'd probably think there was a Nazi in the house!!...So yep, I do know a bit about them.
So yes, I do see Aussie going downhill, I've seen it for several years, and I believe that trend will continue.
I ain't gonna start no war, I'll leave that to the people in C.A., but no,.... right wing extremists will be the least of our worries in Aussie, I'll just say that our problems will arise from the exact opposite side of the "Political Spectrum".
There are those on this Forum who are EXCELLENT with "figures", I'm not one of them, but if they're around in 5-6 years time, to compare now & then, well then, whether I'm right or wrong, "the proof will be in the pudding"!
Pickles.
I wonder what you mean by unsustainable Pickles. We live in a finite world, where the unfitted exploitation of finite resources will lead to their exhaustion.
ASIO is warning of a new cohort of Terrorists emerging. I wonder who they might be.

[incisor]

whether I'm right or wrong, "the proof will be in the pudding"!
Pickles.

it won't worry you or me pickles as much as it could our kids and grandkids..

5 or 6 years isn't the time scale it is closer to 20 to 30 IMHO

the far right and the far left are equally dangerous as either will isolate the other, the big issue is how many are involved in the polarisation as that will determine the damage done.

a zealot of any persuasion is a dangerous thing IMHO

[bob10]

We should refresh our collective memories.How the horror story began.

https://youtu.be/L9waMqzl3Ro

[bee utey]

This is a picture of an actual right wing zealot from the US. He drove his truck through a peaceful protest then fired shots in the air. Was he arrested? No, because the people he injured weren't white right wing Americans.

http://d1jrw5jterzxwu.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/styles/article_header_image/public/article_media/gun.jpg?itok=52Zk8fwx

Link (http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2016/11/14/update-standing-rock-white-dudes-guns-peaceful-natives-and-shoddy-reporting-politicocom)

The right wing are to be feared because they stop at nothing to hurt other people. They are barking mad and extremely dangerous when aroused.

[tuesdayfox]

war is nothing but organised murder of young man to bring the world back to life from economic crisis.
this is the case for WWII and WWI. even the falkland war.
it seems time has come again where such organized killing is needed to correct the overproduction.....
I just hope Australia can somehow stay away from this mess

[Geedublya]

How about this, Trump said he would only accept the result of the election if he won, what will happen if he loses the next one or even if he wins it will he go when his term is up?
In my opinion the man doesn't care about the people or the country he is a narcissist that is in it for his own glory and he will do whatever it takes to stay there and that means feeding the fears of the far right.

[bob10]

How about this, Trump said he would only accept the result of the election if he won, what will happen if he loses the next one or even if he wins it will he go when his term is up?
In my opinion the man doesn't care about the people or the country he is a narcissist that is in it for his own glory and he will do whatever it takes to stay there and that means feeding the fears of the far right.

That is a worry for many people. But I would like to have faith in the US Congress, to keep Mr Trump on the straight and narrow. That , and the fact I think most of middle America are level headed , and smart enough not to let their country be hi jacked by a radical few.

[DiscoMick]

That is a worry for many people. But I would like to have faith in the US Congress, to keep Mr Trump on the straight and narrow. That , and the fact I think most of middle America are level headed , and smart enough not to let their country be hi jacked by a radical few.

I'm not so sure about that. After all, 46% of Americans couldn't even be bothered to vote, so that apathy doesn't inspire much faith in Americans to make wise choices. They've already let the radical few take over.

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[Pickles2]

I'm not so sure about that. After all, 46% of Americans couldn't even be bothered to vote, so that apathy doesn't inspire much faith in Americans to make wise choices. They've already let the radical few take over.

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Nope....that is not going to happen......but it's what a few "activists" would like to have you believe.
I agree with Bob here.
Who knows what Mr Trump will do, but where He won this election was "middle America", who thought they were being neglected by the Washington "Set". The Clintons have been there for 30yrs+. Many talk in a negative fashion about Trumps business dealings/ wealth etc, & maybe rightly so, but the Clintons ain't squeaky clean either. Who knows what goes on in the corridors of the Pentagon.
Trump is only "one",...there will be many many others influencing where Trump & America go from here.
Pickles.

[DiscoMick]

Clinton got 2.6 million more votes than Trump, and only 36% of votes, so he doesn't have a majority mandate for anything.

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[incisor]

Clinton got 2.6 million more votes than Trump, and only 36% of votes, so he doesn't have a majority mandate for anything.

he must have, he won the election...

the rules were known prior to the event, the people voted.

stangely enough, and all the major pollsters seem to agree, white women flocked to him.

draw your own conclusions why

no doubt there will be tales to be told but the reality is they have no one but themselves to blame if they dont like it....

[Chops]

he must have, he won the election...

the rules were known prior to the event, the people voted.

stangely enough, and all the major pollsters seem to agree, white women flocked to him.

draw your own conclusions why

no doubt there will be tales to be told but the reality is they have no one but themselves to blame if they dont like it....

It amazed me how all these women came forward about him having harassed them when he said he was running for president, yet it had been years before that he had supposedly done wrong by them. Why didn't they out the claims in when he was a no-body, so to speak.

[bee utey]

It amazed me how all these women came forward about him having harassed them when he said he was running for president, yet it had been years before that he had supposedly done wrong by them. Why didn't they out the claims in when he was a no-body, so to speak.
People who care about justice have documented countless cases where women who reported sexual harassment have ended up in a worse position that if they had remained silent. The idea that American courts are fair is totally laughable, the rich and the males nearly always win.

[DiscoMick]

It amazed me how all these women came forward about him having harassed them when he said he was running for president, yet it had been years before that he had supposedly done wrong by them. Why didn't they out the claims in when he was a no-body, so to speak.

Some of these cases have already been to court. In other cases the women were afraid to speak up because Trump is rich and has repeatedly sued people to bankrupt and silence them.

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[bob10]

What exactly are we to believe?

The Many Scandals of Donald Trump: A Cheat Sheet - The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/donald-trump-scandals/474726/)

[squizzyhunter]

Sitting in the KLia2 airport terminal I am again amused at how the Asian girls in the posters have been photoshopped to be as white as possible. They are whiter than the central Chinese, whiter even than the western white girls. I haven't seen a single female here today who looks even close to the poster girls.
I think this shows how we are being swayed to believe that white is more beautiful than brown or black.
Personally, I think that's rubbish. I see plenty of really beautiful brown and black women. Those AirAsia flight attendants - wow!
I dont see how the white supremacists can justify their argument that white is better, except by closing their eyes to the real world and hiding in a sad little white ghetto.

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Everyone wants to be something different than they are, that's why sunscreen is called whitening cream over there and why the people in our adds are darker than most of us.

[bob10]

Everyone wants to be something different than they are, that's why sunscreen is called whitening cream over there and why the people in our adds are darker than most of us.

Whoa. Not sure if I should be more concerned about the content of your reply, or happy about my name is not squizzy.