Puma 2.2 Egt's

[1nando]

Hi guys,

i'd been researching puma EGT'S and could not find definitive answers as most install the probe post turbo (downstream) and this provides an unrealistic reading as you can expect 100-200 degrees celsius loss through the turbine (through heat soak). So i decided to get an EGT gauge and test it for myself.

So today i picked up my car from Graeme Cooper. Once again the guys there did a excellent job and i can't speak highly enough of them.

So when i arrived to pick up my defender i was very glad to hear a couple of interesting things:
1) my defender has the least amount of backlash they have ever seen and is unheard of for a puma. Stoked about this as i worked with my dealer under warranty to rectify my backlash issues and also spent some decent money on axles, flanges and a rear e-locker.
2) my EGT's are extremely low! My probe is installed pre-turbo in the exhaust manifold (upstream of turbo). The guys were very surprised at how low they were and thought the mods i have done have complimented the vehicle very well.

So my mods which could effect EGT's (positive and negative) are as follows:

-Alive remap (Bruce Davis) with blanked and switched off erg.
-Alive front mounted intercooler
-snorkel (genuine LR)
-decat with centre muffler removed and rear muffler left on
-provent 200 oil catch can (maybe helps??? cleaner inlet air equals cleaner burn)
- 33s (make the engine work harder and should produce higher egts in theory)
- currently around 2.4 tons (vehicle weight and mods with stuff on board)

So on the way home i though i'd test out my EGT'S and see how high i could get them. There's a flat stretch of road on the way home and i thought i'd plant it from a stand still up to the legal limit which is 80km/h. So i got the car to operating temp and did the test.......

Planted 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th and got to 80km per/h.......i could not hit over 300 degrees celsius. I could not believe it as i was expecting at least around 450.

So my opinion of the 2.2 puma is that it is a extremely competent engine and with the correct mods can provide great performance reliably.

-get a decent tune
-free up your exhaust flow
-get a snorkel
-upgrade your intercooler

Hope this helps anyone thinking about how to go about mods.

I will post a pic of my install below.

Open to opinions and questions...

[1nando]

Also driving around generally it hardly goes over 250.

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[Beery]

Good result. The Allisport IC on mine pretty much closed the gap between ambient temps and intake temp.
With the standard IC, the intake temp was about 50 degrees above ambient.

[justinc]

Thats a good result ☺. I found similar with my 3.0 auto 4jj1tcx in the dmax, couldn't get the upstream temps over 500deg driven as hard as i could. Bigger ic but stock exhaust. After the 500Nm remap upgrade i was hard pressed when towing 2.75t on a 30deg day to get to 675... a good tune and decent intercooler is a joy!!

Jc ☺

[Baytown]

Great thread fellas.
1Nando, I have all the same mods in my 2012 2.2, except the oil catch can. (Might still do this!)
I will use this as a reference to where my temps should be when unstressed.
Out of interest, where did you mount your EGT gauge?
I'm going to fit a Redarc unit.
Thanks in advance.
Ken

[1nando]

Great thread fellas.
1Nando, I have all the same mods in my 2012 2.2, except the oil catch can. (Might still do this!)
I will use this as a reference to where my temps should be when unstressed.
Out of interest, where did you mount your EGT gauge?
I'm going to fit a Redarc unit.
Thanks in advance.
Ken

In the collector before the turbo. A lot of people install the probe downstream of turbo and this is not a accurate reading. When i was researching the 2.2 egts i found a lot of people install the probe in the bung thats in the factory downpipe. Some of these people are getting 600-700 degree readings from that location, that would worry the hell out of me becuase in reality they could be 800-900 degrees in which case they are potentially causing damage.

Also i decided to use the egt probe and gauage from thermo guard industries. Ian was great to deal with and good price for quality items


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[1nando]

Hightest i managed today was 476. To achieve this i had to floor it at 70km per hour in 5th up a medium gradient long hill until i hit 110km. Thats not bad considering im achieving that with 33s and it makes the engine work a little harder to achieve the same acceleration.
I did that with the family in the car plus a whole bunch of Christmas shopping, probably 2.55 ton all up.


Also noticed that the cooler temps today ran the egts a tiny bit higher. When i say a tiny bit maybe 10-15 degrees.

I put this down to the denser air charge providing a bigger bang for the same amount of fueling, thats my guess anyway. Still hardly sees over 280 crusing around

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[1nando]

Hi guys,

So yesterday we left Sydney and arrived at Torquay (Jan Juc) in Victoria, we are doing the ocean road. Took 12 hours, 2 more than usual due to our new addition to the family (my 5 and 1/2 month old daughter) needing some extra attention and love......loved every second of it.

Anyway i have some interesting egt results to report. For those that are not aware please read OP for my mods and see the pic of where i mounted the egt probe (properly in the manifold before the turbo and not after).

So the goal was to drive in 6th gear and floor it up every hill on the way to Jan Juc to see what the highest egt i could get is, whilst always maintaining a minimum of 110kmph or increasing my speed up hills if possible. Also adding to this i was blasting the air con and was probably weighing in at 2.6 ton gvm.

The maximum i managed was 612c. This was a result of going up a very long hill just out of Gundagai in 6th at 120kmph and full throttle application. Im very pleased with this result because the car was managing to maintain speed and the egt was ticking over at a snails pace once it went over 590. Under normal circumstances i would not be flooring my car up such a long hill in 6th with the air con blairing and a decent payload in 27 degree weather. This was the only hill where i managed to crack 600c, no matter how hard i tried.

The average egt reading would be 420-450 throught the trip. I've ordered a scan gauge and am keen to see the relationship between coolant temp and egt. Will post some results soon as i do.

Comments welcome and i hope you find the info helpful.




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[1nando]

Hi guys, update:

So we ended our trip short because of the oil leak issue ive got going on at the moment and decided to come back home yesterday. Arrived at home this morning close to 2am.

So yesterday we were driving through 34-37 degree weather, it was bloody hot! Due to my oil leak issue i was driving normally and not hammering the go fast pedal. Basically sat on 100kmph to 115kmp depending on up hill, down hill etc. My average egts were 380-420. Highest spike was 588 up a very, very long hill. As soon as i saw the 588 i backed off into 5th and down she went to low 500s. Around midnight my egts were 330-350 at 110-120kmph, thats nice and LOW.
Very impressed, it was VERY HOT and the egts did not go over 600 once. The highest to date is still 612. This is excellent considering the 3ltr patrol for example can hit upto 800 degrees celsius according to some posts ive read on their forum.
A/C not only effects power but also increases egts significantly in the hot weather. Again if you have an egt of 550 post turbo in that sort of heat i would 100% back off as your more than likely over 720 degrees celsius.
I would say that out of all the mods I've done the exhasut has had the biggest effect on my egts, id say even more than my intercooler. I say this becuase although the cooler reduces intake temp it also increases power and there for it kind of balances itself out, the exhaust however lets the engine breather easier.
My 2 cents, hope that is informative.
Nando



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[PAT303]

Brilliant thread mate. Pat

[Marty90]

Hi Nando,
Who supplied and fitted the exhaust?

[1nando]

Hi Nando,
Who supplied and fitted the exhaust?

Hi mate,

Bruce Davis did the decat when i had it tuned and i did the centre muffler.

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[1nando]

Also guys i need to give Ian from thermoguard industries a plug. He was extremely helpful when i was doing my research. Good service, great product and well priced. Thanks Ian



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[justinc]

Also guys i need to give Ian from thermoguard industries a plug. He was extremely helpful when i was doing my research. Good service, great product and well priced. Thanks Ian



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100% Ian is a great guy and a true quiet achiever😊

[1nando]

Update:
So yesterday i installed my ultra gauge blue. Was a mission, absolute mission to pair the thing with my Samsung s6 edge but eventually i managed to do it after downloading 2 different blue tooth apps.

Anyway my goal is to try and report coolant temp in relation to egts. Today was 29 degree ambient temp and so fsr coolant seems to say between 88-90. My egts around town rarely see over 300 degrees.

For Australia day i will be travelling to Melbourne once again with the family to visit family. I will report on coolant temps relative to egts on the way down.

Stay tuned for results:D



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[Tombie]

Good luck with that!!!!
Whilst EGTs will obviously impact Coolant temp there's way too many variables...

Ambient temp, humidity, air pressure etc.
And EGTs can soar in seconds and drop just as quickly, the heat soak will be delayed.

I will be interested to see the results.

[Tombie]

For the record - where is your Pyrometer probe fitted?

[1nando]

For the record - where is your Pyrometer probe fitted?

Pre turbo in the manifold collector. All the info is in the OP Tombie.

I think a 10 hour continuous drive may result in some interesting coolant temp variations. Obviously if it doesn't and they stay relatively cool then im stoked. All i care about is how controlled the temp will be during what will hopefully be a very hot day during a very long trip loaded. If the temp stays within a very narrow range and quiet low then ill make the assumption that my vehicle is running just the way i want it to run. If it runs a little hot then ill work out the best way to resolve what may be a potential issue.

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[Jan]

About 70 different readings that can be seen on the UG Blue - but some parameters not displayed. Also takes some time to decide between digital- or analogue readouts - which type appears visually the best for the particular driver. It displays at least 2 air temperatures - one at the air box and the other probably as "real intake air temperature" at the manifold. Difference for these 2 values may vary between 20 to 30 deg Celsius during normal driving - normal load, not towing, relatively even road, etc. Still awaiting my MadMan EMS installation - which would display EGT and can also have a sensor for transmission oil temperature. But would appreciate your feedback as mentioned - also with notes regarding vehicle load, ambient temps, wind direction, speed, etc.

[1nando]

Update:

So today was hot in sydney, around 33-34 degrees.
Finished work at 3pm and had intentions to go home and work on the house as we are still only 3/4 of the way through our reno but the mrs insisted we go out and enjoy the afternoon. She wanted to drive to Manly to get an ice cream. So off we went to get an ice cream.
Anyway noticed a few things and thought id report my findings. Now please keep in mind these figures are relative to my car but im sure you can use some of this info and corelate it back to what effect it may have on yours.

1st: air con seems to affect engine power by about 4-5%!
2nd: air con also increases egt by the same 4-5%
3rd: coolant temp is influenced by engine load more so than egt. Now your probably wondering how is that possible? Now if you have been following this thread you would know that my car runs low egts. Cruising around town below 60kmph i hardly ever see over 300 degrees (pre turbo), cruising down southern cross drive at 80kmph i sit around 300 on a day like today. Now, when i punch the accerlator (with air con on) and engine load rises to around 85% and hold that for say around 20 seconds coolant temp goes up 1-3 degrees, but comes straight back down to around 89-90 in my car. No matter how hard i push my vehicle coolant temp will not and has not gone over 94 degrees! The egts are around 450 to achieve this sort of coolant temp.
Now its only natural for coolant temp to go up as load is increased but the thermostat does its job and literally within a matter of seconds the coolant temp comes back down to the normal range in my car.
So what do i draw from this info? Well some people on this site report average coolant temps of 94-96. I think for this sort of coolant temp there is a good chance your egts are hitting 500 plus. If you have a standard tune in your vehicle chances are that you push "the go fast pedal" more often than i do becuase your either trying to keep up with the flow of traffic or accelerating, as a result you run a higher average egt. Now i cant prove that would be the case in your vehicle but using all the info at my disposal i calculate it as a educated guess.
Some people report close to 100 degrees coolant temp towing, id say that your egts are probably around 600 degrees at some points and averaged very high to get this sort of collant temp. I cant get over 94 degrees coolant temp, thats why i make that assumption.
Also i have a screen shot of my ultra gauge readings.
Hope you enjoy the info and ill keep it coming.
Fernando



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[1nando]

I took this screen shot once i came to a stand still after hammering it for a good 10 minutes

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[Tombie]

Good report. Incorrect hypothesis though.
I may write something detailed once I get to a keyboard.

[1nando]

Also notice my intake temps. They are excellent. The alive intercooler is excellent! I could not be happier with it! It is always 3-5 degrees above ambient temp, does an amazing job!
My oil temp is also very stable at around 100 degrees om average. So much for needing a oil cooler upgrade.


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[1nando]

Good report. Incorrect hypothesis though.
I may write something detailed once I get to a keyboard.

Thanks Tombie, i think i know that your going to say the higher your average egt the higher the coolant temp average. Thats a guess.....🙄

The average bloke on here with a standard puma more than likely does not know what sort of egts they are running. By using load as a reference, one understands that as load increases so does egt, and as a result coolant temp. I just reported it a different way....

Am i incorrect/wrong?

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[Phil B]

I think you should be pleased with the results rather than be concerned
With those results you will enjoy a long lasting and reliable engine IMHO

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[1nando]

I dont know whats going on here but Aulro is showing that i thanked my own posts and i dont think thats possible.....also i cant start new topics!

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[Marty90]

Probably the mobile app. Mine is playing up also.Doesn't show all posts.It's all over the shop.

[Beery]

I dont know whats going on here but Aulro is showing that i thanked my own posts and i dont think thats possible.....also i cant start new topics!

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Probably the mobile app. Mine is playing up also.Doesn't show all posts.It's all over the shop.


Likewise, the mobile app is being useless at the moment.

[Phil B]

Try Tapatalk. It's still working fine

[Tombie]

The old AULRO app is now defunct (see Daves posted sticky) - you'll need Tapatalk to move forward..

[1nando]

Tombie, hypothesis? Not correct??

[Tombie]

Tombie, hypothesis? Not correct??



Sorry for not replying. Laptop at office!

Close and yes they do have relationships and your experience is very positive. Certainly no need to worry..

Heat soak, environmental factors etc all need to be considered.. EGTs and AC for example are a function of load on the engine and thermal load in front of cooling system.

Heat soak, thermostat reaction times and temperatures all need to be factored in.

[emoji41]

[DiscoMick]

The old AULRO app is now defunct (see Daves posted sticky) - you'll need Tapatalk to move forward..
Yep, I had to uninstall the mobile app, search for and install Tapatalk, search in it for AULRO and log in. All good now.

[1nando]

Update;
Hi guys so yesterday i drove down to Melbourne. I am a little concerned with my coolant temp!.
So for the first half of the trip with an ambient 30 degrees for a good part of the trip i averaged 93-95 degrees coolant temp whilst doing 110kmph -120kmph. My egts are anywhere from 400-500 pre turbo to achieve this. The egts do not concern me in the slightest because i consider them low. However i managed a max egt yesterday of 598 (again not concerned at all as i was hammering the car up a long hill and this is still low) and the coolant temp managed to hit 100. I saw it climbing and thought id keep hammering the go fast pedal just to see where it would stop. As soon as i back off it comes down quickly but still, nt good.
So this is what i was able to see with egt in regards to coolant temp.
400-450 =91-93 degrees
450-500 = 93-95
500-550 = 95-97
550-600 = 97-100

Now, i know some puma owners have experienced limp mode when heavily loaded/towing and pushing hard. I also think the 2.2 tdci goes into limp mode at around 105 degrees (someone confrim?). If this is the case i would imagine that to hit 105 degree coolant temp the egts must be around 700 degrees and the engine kills power to protect itself.
I only hit a 100 a few times and to be honest i could have avoided it quiet easily however it is worrying to know that the temp can just skyrocket like that whilst running low and very safe egts. I also know modern diesels are engineered to run hot and in fact need to run hot to run effieciently, howwever i think 100 degrees is over the top.

Any thoughts gents? Im considering a earlier opening therostat.

[roverrescue]

At 15Psi coolant pressure running 50:50 glycol equivalent
Your coolant boil point is 135degrees Celsius
Sure you might get more cavitation boiling at lower temps than 135
But the factory limp at 105 is still relatively conservative

I was going to comment that heat soak (hwy trip like you just showed) will always out temp pushing hard around town

I think you are simply defining the numbers to a well tuned diesel

S

[1nando]

Roverrescue, so you think i have nothing to worry about?

[filcar]

I think the ECU starts protection mode at coolant temps around 116C. I have had mine as high as 109C according to the Ultraguage while towing the camper and traffic requirements meaning I had to maintain road speed rather than letting speed wash off so was pushing. Ambient at 30C, towing and travelling between 95 to 105 KPH sees coolant temps varying between 92 to 96C whereas without the camper behind I get 89 to 92C in the same conditions. Obviously working harder pulling the camper, and the temps are higher than I would like but I don't think that there is anything to be done about when you are pushing. MY2012 Defender 90 with the 170hp BAS tune and Allisport intercooler.

[roverrescue]

Yes
100 degrees is of little consequence when your boil point is 135
If the system is intact as in no HG leak hoses sealed and radiator clear of obstruction the 100 will quickly cool once load reduces

As you mentioned engine load has more bearing on coolant temps than EGT

Go up a hill flat to the boards in 6th your load will be higher than if you did it in 5th
Coolant temp would be higher in 6th than 5th

I would be hesitant to run a lower rated stat which would run the engine cooler most of the time

100 is not hot

S

[Tombie]

Who told people 100c isn't good?

[Tombie]

I had a very powerful V8 years ago that ran up to 118c without an issue...

As long as the pressure is kept in the system you won't boil away...

[PAT303]

Roverrescue, so you think i have nothing to worry about?

Nope,you ''maxed out'' your vehicle and temps stayed within limits.Nothing to see here :). Pat

[Tombie]

This is what happens when the simplistic nature of "but water boils at 100c at sea level" learnings are applied to automotive applications.. which has been inconsequential since the first pressurised cooling system.

Ford Barra motors don't kick off until well over 118c (I had a worked Barra, that on a 40c day driven hard was pushing 120c+) and never have a problem...

That's what the glycol mix and pressure cap are there to control..

It's also what allows you to drive up Mount Kosciuszko etc (or even higher in say the USA) and back to sea level without engine problems..

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/238.jpg

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-points-water-altitude-d_1344.html

[1nando]

Tombie, as usual excellent info. Thanks mate

[Beery]

100 degrees is no problem. I've sat on 110km/h all day in flat open country with air temp of about 35 and the coolant just sat at 100 and wouldn't budge.

We don't need 50/50 glycol in ths country though. The vehicles are shipped out with the ability to handle the coldest climates.

A 70/30 concentration still gives antifreeze protection to about -20 and does bugger all to the boiling temp. Most importantly it will increase the "capacity" of the cooling system which will mean temps should stay more stable and not be beyond the control of the thermostat as often.

[Tombie]

Not quite.... [emoji6]

Dropping to 30% Glycol mix drops boil-over to 121c at Sea level...

50% Glycol sees it at 129c and is the recommended blend globally - optimum balance of corrosion protection and life as well as cooling...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/221.jpg

The only thing the lighter mix does is improves its Specific Heat Capacity as you mentioned.

[1nando]

Id love to know what some other members are getting in regards to egt.
Maybe a list of mods which could affect egt:
2.2 or 2.4:
Location of probe (pre turbo after turbo):
Tyre size:
Tune (standard or ....?):
Intercooler:
Exhaust mods:
Snorkel;
Max egt seen:

It would be great to get some figures if we could, would be a valuable resource for those looking at possible modifications.

[Beery]

Not quite.... [emoji6]
[QUOTE]50% Glycol sees it at 129c and is the recommended blend globally
Of course they recommend that, because it's sufficient for a broad temperature band. Doesn't mean its the best for every situation.


- optimum balance of corrosion protection and life as well as cooling...
Yes its a good balance. But definately not optimised for a hot climate.
Corrosion inhibitors can be added manually to a weaker glycol solution.


The only thing the lighter mix does is improves its Specific Heat Capacity as you mentioned.
Thats the whole idea.

[dazzler]

Dont have an egt sensor but I do monitor temp through a HUD plugged to the obd 2.

During my recent VIC high country trip with a fully laden car I had the following observation:

2.2
No probe
Tyre size: 285/75 R16 BFG KM2
Tune: BAS 170 AB
Intercooler: BAS
Exhaust mods: D-CAT
Snorkel: Safari with standard paper filter
Normal coolant temp is around 89 (even at sustained highway speeds *20 ;)). The temp did climb going over the mountains in low range when the going was very slow to about 97 for a short period of time.

My Truck by the Way:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/398.jpg

[1nando]

Corrosion inhibitors can be added manually to a weaker glycol solution.

What manually added corrosion inhibitors???

[Beery]

Corrosion inhibitors can be added manually to a weaker glycol solution.

What manually added corrosion inhibitors???

This is the stuff I mean.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/219.jpg
Nulon's Radiator Corrosion Protector - protects your cooling systems from rust and corrosion for 3 years or 100,000kms no matter the age or metal type. NOTE: For vehicles that require a Type A OEM replacement coolant use Nulon Long Life Coolants, available in both Concentrate and Pre-Mixed variants.
BENEFITS:


Contains advanced long life inhibitor technology for maximum corrosion protection of all cooling system metals for 3 years or 100,000km
Built in Water Wetter promotes quicker heat reduction over conventional coolant
Protects aluminium, steel, cast iron, solder, copper and brass
Safe for all hoses, gaskets and seals
Exceeds Australian AS 2108-2004 Type B standard

[Tombie]

[quote=Tombie;2635673]Not quite.... [emoji6]

Of course they recommend that, because it's sufficient for a broad temperature band. Doesn't mean its the best for every situation.


Yes its a good balance. But definately not optimised for a hot climate.
Corrosion inhibitors can be added manually to a weaker glycol solution.


Thats the whole idea.



Challenge is then you need to slow the flow rate, and increase resistance to reduce nucleate boiling and cavitation damage.. [emoji6]

[Beery]

[quote=Beery;2635688]



Challenge is then you need to slow the flow rate, and increase resistance to reduce nucleate boiling and cavitation damage.. [emoji6]
Thats what the water wetter is for.

[Tombie]

This is the stuff I mean.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/219.jpg
Nulon's Radiator Corrosion Protector - protects your cooling systems from rust and corrosion for 3 years or 100,000kms no matter the age or metal type. NOTE: For vehicles that require a Type A OEM replacement coolant use Nulon Long Life Coolants, available in both Concentrate and Pre-Mixed variants.
BENEFITS:


Contains advanced long life inhibitor technology for maximum corrosion protection of all cooling system metals for 3 years or 100,000km
Built in Water Wetter promotes quicker heat reduction over conventional coolant
Protects aluminium, steel, cast iron, solder, copper and brass
Safe for all hoses, gaskets and seals
Exceeds Australian AS 2108-2004 Type B standard




Only catch - LRs post about 2003 require Type A coolants so this is not so good...

Then of course there is Diesel Coolant - which is even better for Diesel engines... [emoji41]

[Beery]

Only catch - LRs post about 2003 require Type A coolants so this is not so good...

Then of course there is Diesel Coolant - which is even better for Diesel engines... [emoji41]
"Type A coolants are antifreeze/antiboil coolants with corrosion inhibitor that comply with the requirements of this standard. Type B coolants are coolants with corrosion inhibitors only that comply with the requirements of this standard."

The type just refers to whether it is an inhibitor mixed with glycol, or an inhibitor only.

Im not talking about getting rid of all glycol, just watering it down and then boosting the inhibitors with the nulon stuff

[1nando]

Dont have an egt sensor but I do monitor temp through a HUD plugged to the obd 2.

During my recent VIC high country trip with a fully laden car I had the following observation:

2.2
No probe
Tyre size: 285/75 R16 BFG KM2
Tune: BAS 170 AB
Intercooler: BAS
Exhaust mods: D-CAT
Snorkel: Safari with standard paper filter
Normal coolant temp is around 89 (even at sustained highway speeds *20 ;)). The temp did climb going over the mountains in low range when the going was very slow to about 97 for a short period of time.

My Truck by the Way:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/398.jpg

Id love to test the BAS tune and see what sort of egt readings i get.
Anyone in sydney keen to swap ecu's for a week?

[LR V8]

I don't think you can swap them between vehicles...

Cheers.

[PAT303]

Both my Tdi and TDCi sit on 88-92 when driving everyday,both get up to 95-100 if pushed hard towing on a hot day.Personally I'd forget fix's,just maintain the cooling system 100% and drive to the conditions,flushing,rodding the core and viscous hubs are cheap,very cheap compared to head repairs.For cooling you want good airflow,fit gills into the guards,they also help lower cabin temps. Pat

[PAT303]

Dont have an egt sensor but I do monitor temp through a HUD plugged to the obd 2.

During my recent VIC high country trip with a fully laden car I had the following observation:

2.2
No probe
Tyre size: 285/75 R16 BFG KM2
Tune: BAS 170 AB
Intercooler: BAS
Exhaust mods: D-CAT
Snorkel: Safari with standard paper filter
Normal coolant temp is around 89 (even at sustained highway speeds *20 ;)). The temp did climb going over the mountains in low range when the going was very slow to about 97 for a short period of time.

My Truck by the Way:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/398.jpg

Not having a bar loaded with crap blocking airflow helps. Pat

[dazzler]

Agree pat, hence I removed a pair of HID driving lights to be replaced with

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/174.jpg


to help with the heat buildup in the cabin I will be padding the transmission tunnel I think.

[DiscoMick]

Both my Tdi and TDCi sit on 88-92 when driving everyday,both get up to 95-100 if pushed hard towing on a hot day.Personally I'd forget fix's,just maintain the cooling system 100% and drive to the conditions,flushing,rodding the core and viscous hubs are cheap,very cheap compared to head repairs.For cooling you want good airflow,fit gills into the guards,they also help lower cabin temps. Pat
That's interesting, do gills really make much difference?

[PAT303]

Agree pat, hence I removed a pair of HID driving lights to be replaced with

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/174.jpg


to help with the heat buildup in the cabin I will be padding the transmission tunnel I think.

You've got a nice defender mate,neat,tidy and uncluttered. Pat

[PAT303]

[quote=Beery;2635688]



Challenge is then you need to slow the flow rate, and increase resistance to reduce nucleate boiling and cavitation damage.. [emoji6]

And if that fails switch the energy to the dilitheom crystals and get away on impulse power :p. Pat

[PAT303]

That's interesting, do gills really make much difference?

Absolutely,you'd be surprised how much venting the engine bay helps.I got back to Kalgoorlie in my LandLoser once by removing the bonnet,the second time by putting tex screws through the fan hub.POS they are. Pat

[Baytown]

I'm really interested in the whole cooling gill/vent discussion. I've been unable to find any photos on the net of a Defender with this mod though. Pat, do you have any photos or can point me in the right direction?
Thanks.
Ken

[Marty90]

Wonder how a Hilux bonnet scoop mounted backwards would work and look?

[PAT303]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/120.jpg Here's an L322 as an idea.

[PAT303]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/119.jpg Another way with an XU1,my all time favourite Australian car.With the gills you can buy them ready made from performance shops in all shapes and size's,you simply cut the guard and fit. Pat

[Landy86]

Hi guys,

The puma 2.2 limiter kicks in at 111 degrees Celsius .

I found this out today on the way back from Kalbarri

2015 130 defender
35 inch tyres
Bas 170bhp
Sitting on 120km hour

[Baytown]

Thanks Pat.
Yep, I'm aware of gills on other makes-models but was wondering if anyone had done it to their Defender.
Ive researched radiator-intercooler efficacy and air exit re my 2004 MGTF 160 which has been reflashed by the man responsible for the factory tune within MG on the introduction of the car. They were tested in Australia prior to release.
Real world experience on a Defender re this potential mod would be great.
Best wishes mate.
Ken

[Tombie]

Wonder how a Hilux bonnet scoop mounted backwards would work and look?



Forward facing works better - seriously.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/503.jpg

[cuppabillytea]

Looks good too.
This in a very interesting thread. Great work.

[Dopey]

I'm really interested in the whole cooling gill/vent discussion. I've been unable to find any photos on the net of a Defender with this mod though. Pat, do you have any photos or can point me in the right direction?
Thanks.
Ken

G'day Ken,
Here's a link to some fellas that have done the guard venting to their
It's something that I want to do on one of my 90'.

Mike.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/144905-defender-engine-bay-heat-lh-guard-vent.html

[Baytown]

Good on you Mike.
Thanks.
Ken

[1nando]

Update;
So today i drove back from Melbourne to Sydney. Most of the trip was spent at 32 degree weather. Unlike on the way down where i tried to push the limits of my defender i drove normally. "Normally" for me is sitting on 110-120kmph with the air con on. Not once did i let the speedo go below 110kmph and the highest egt was 609 degrees with 100 as the coolant temp. Within 30 seconds of reaching the top of the long hill the egts dropped straight back down to 370-420 and coolant back to 93-95 degrees.
After some insight from fellow members im happy with the coolant temps and the egts are spot on.
In saying all of this how important is engine oil temp?

[1nando]

Also note that the 609 degree egt was the result of at least 1 and a half minutes of full throttle, maybe longer. If i had just tried to maintain my speed rather than increase it up the hill i could have got up it with no more than 550. Once over 590 it literally ticks over at a snails pace. I doubt it would ever hit more than 650 degrees. Thats only the second time its gone over 600.

[Baytown]

GDay Nando.
I hope you don't mind my replying to you on your thread. I thought it may compliment the relevant and very interesting conversations here.
I have my factory Cat and down pipe removed as well, so don't have the factory bung available.
I was waiting on getting my down pipe modified to fit a bung Post Turbo especially after talking to my Defender mechanic who doesn't understand any reason for pre Turbo, but I will show this thread to him and discuss accordingly.
As discussed, we have pretty much the same engine mods, now even including the Provent 200.
More to follow once I speak with my Tech.
Good on you fellas.
Ken
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/[/URL][/IMG]

[1nando]

GDay Nando.
I hope you don't mind my replying to you on your thread. I thought it may compliment the relevant and very interesting conversations here.
I have my factory Cat and down pipe removed as well, so don't have the factory bung available.
I was waiting on getting my down pipe modified to fit a bung Post Turbo especially after talking to my Defender mechanic who doesn't understand any reason for pre Turbo, but I will show this thread to him and discuss accordingly.
As discussed, we have pretty much the same engine mods, now even including the Provent 200.
More to follow once I speak with my Tech.
Good on you fellas.
Ken
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/[/URL][/IMG]

G'day Ken,

Thanks for posting on my thread Ken, its great to get as much useful info out there as possible for others. I suggest you look up Thermoguard industries and have a look at Ians blog. Pre and post turbo isn't as simple as people care to think, there can be a difference of upto 200 degrees across the turbine (that is not a typo....200 degrees celsius).

Guys on the patrol forum are reporting egts of 600 post turbo and people with the same mods reporting close to 800 degrees celsius [emoji33] [emoji33] pre turbo.

The turbine disapates a lot of heat and as a result the downstream reading is always substantially lower.

Having the probe in the manifold collector pre turbo ensures that you are getting the most accurate reading possible (other than running individual probes in each extractor).

However it is your decision and I'm excited to here your results either way.

Ps your truck sounds like its going to be the ultimate weapon when its finished [emoji41]

[justinc]

GDay Nando.
I hope you don't mind my replying to you on your thread. I thought it may compliment the relevant and very interesting conversations here.
I have my factory Cat and down pipe removed as well, so don't have the factory bung available.
I was waiting on getting my down pipe modified to fit a bung Post Turbo especially after talking to my Defender mechanic who doesn't understand any reason for pre Turbo, but I will show this thread to him and discuss accordingly.
As discussed, we have pretty much the same engine mods, now even including the Provent 200.
More to follow once I speak with my Tech.
Good on you fellas.
Ken
http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a452/47Indian/IMG_4603_1.jpg (http://s1037.photobucket.com/user/47Indian/media/IMG_4603_1.jpg.html)

Ken I'm sorry but there is a very good reason for upstream probe positioning. As alluded to i would direct your tech to ians Thermoguard page for some enlightenment. ..😐

Jc

[Baytown]

Don't get me wrong fellas;
I consider some of the main posters here to be Gurus, and I take your advice accordingly.
When I spoke with my Tech at the 100K service, I'm sure I didn't explain the rationale for pre Turbo correctly.
As I have him do the big jobs on my truck, I like to keep a theme to the maintainance.
Anyway, pre obviously seems the consensus.
I wonder what the Poms do to their Puma EGT set ups? It would be interesting to hear from BAS, Alive, Twisted, Urban Truck etc just for comparison.
Best wishes fellas.
Ken

[portafilter]

can i ask where you got the cruise control and did you install it yourself?

[Baytown]

I purchased from, and had it fitted by MR Automotive Land Rover specialists in Brisbane.
Wouldn't be without it. There is a little LED globe installed by the right circular vent that changes colour to let you know what mode you are in.
I'm sure any of the LR specialists in Melbourne can do it for you.
Ken

[DiscoMick]

Wouldn't the existing mudguard top vents on both sides of a Puma vent enough hot air to make a bonnet scoop unnecessary?

[Beery]

Forward facing works better - seriously.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/503.jpg
How is that going to result in more airflow through the radiator?

[1nando]

How is that going to result in more airflow through the radiator?
Why are we worried with engine bay heat when theres other things that provide better value for your dollar.

Snorkel, intercooler, exhaust are all priorities if you want to reduce egts and heat. People on this site say the standard exhaust is adequate however my opinion is that it is very restrictive not conducive to good exhaust flow hence making the engine bay hotter. If anyone says otherwise id love them to tell what egts there getting and how they compare to mine. Mines tuned which means more fuel which in theroy means more heat but it runs smooth as and what i would consider to be excellent egts for a tuned vehicle. According to some people whos opinion i actually respect on this site my coolant temps are on the money.......and we are worried about engine bay heat in a 2.2/2.4 litre defender? Unless some of you are running aftermarket turbos, 500 plus nm and 200 plus hp i dont think engine heat will be an issue, but id love someone to point me in the right direction if i am wrong, I'm keen on a explation as to why my thinking may be incorrect.

[Tombie]

What they're chasing is air flow under the vehicle to keep the floor area cooler [emoji6]

Nothing to do with engine cooling..

[Beery]

Why are we worried with engine bay heat when theres other things that provide better value for your dollar.

Snorkel, intercooler, exhaust are all priorities if you want to reduce egts and heat. People on this site say the standard exhaust is adequate however my opinion is that it is very restrictive not conducive to good exhaust flow hence making the engine bay hotter. If anyone says otherwise id love them to tell what egts there getting and how they compare to mine. Mines tuned which means more fuel which in theroy means more heat but it runs smooth as and what i would consider to be excellent egts for a tuned vehicle. According to some people whos opinion i actually respect on this site my coolant temps are on the money.......and we are worried about engine bay heat in a 2.2/2.4 litre defender? Unless some of you are running aftermarket turbos, 500 plus nm and 200 plus hp i dont think engine heat will be an issue, but id love someone to point me in the right direction if i am wrong, I'm keen on a explation as to why my thinking may be incorrect.
Engine bay heat matters because it fatigues ever single thing under the bonnet...things that aren't water cooled. Think along the lines of steering pump, A/C compressor, high pressure fuel pump.
It also heats the firewall and cab floor like Tombie said, putting extra load on the A/C when being used, perpetuating the problem.
Radiator/IC/condenser airflow matters (improved partly by helping air get out of the engine bay); because it helps your aircon run lower pressures/temperatures; because it lowers combustion temperatures; because it lowers coolant temp leaving the radiator.

Coolant temp matters because (aside from the obvious) it controls the oil temp, and the fuel temp. The lower the better on those two, within reason.

[1nando]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/438.jpg

Todays readings. Bumper to bumper traffic in the worst heat I've ever experienced in the landy with the air con blairing and coolant temp remained very stable at 89-91.

Driving around today egts remained below 300 (highest speed today around 80kmph) and coolant temp pretty much the same as in bumper to bumper traffic.

[dazzler]

Dont have an egt sensor but I do monitor temp through a HUD plugged to the obd 2.

During my recent VIC high country trip with a fully laden car I had the following observation:

2.2
No probe
Tyre size: 285/75 R16 BFG KM2
Tune: BAS 170 AB
Intercooler: BAS
Exhaust mods: D-CAT
Snorkel: Safari with standard paper filter
Normal coolant temp is around 89 (even at sustained highway speeds *20 ;)). The temp did climb going over the mountains in low range when the going was very slow to about 97 for a short period of time.

My Truck by the Way:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/398.jpg


Folks,
Similar reading again today temp in mid forties

Max temp at stationary at the lights 89
Driving @ 60 odd km 87~88
Extended run I got 86 momentarily

AC on Full and the condenser fan going a mil miles an hour ;)

I forgot to add:

I lost a lot off coolant mucking around with the BAS Elbow and BAS IC install, since I did not readily have coolant handy I filled with tap water to get by for a few days. The ratio then was probably 80~90 water and rest red coolant. This seem to help with the temp in line with a lot of suggestions here.

Following week, I bought concentrated coolant(Green) from LR to completely flush the system and this is what I have now.

I have also made the following changes around the same time:
- New grill and Removed a pair of HID lights.
- MOS2 in LIQUI MOLY TOP TEC 4500 5W-30

I also have:4x4 Outdoor Tuning :: Spacer for Fan for Defender TD4 2.4 and 2.2 (http://www.4x4outdoortuning.com.au/spacer-for-visko-fan-for-defender-td4-2-4-and-2-2.html)

Sharing as much as I remember if that helps

Cheers

[1nando]

Update;

This experiment is concluded.

- My 2.2 runs LOW egts. Get the correct mods and you can rest assured that your vehicle will be well within a safe working range.
-the duratorq is an excellent engine. Torquey and strong. Happy to lug all day and great on economy
- the Alive tune and cooler are ONE OF THE BEST THING'S I'VE EVER DONE in terms of mods.
- the standard exhaust is restrictive
- now that the weather has cooled down I cant get anywhere near 600 degrees.

I love my puma, I love the way it drives exactly like our 3 ton Hino trucks and pulls exactly like they do. It won't ever win any races....... but it doesn't matter what I put in it, how many people are in it or how much weight I ask it to pull out when recovering our bogged trucks but it just does it and never complains. Very happy with my setup and hopefully some of you find this thread helpful/useful.

Cheers
Nando

[retromatic]

Hi Nando,

I have a Puma 130 2.4 since Oct 2020

Engine was blowing coolant out the cap when I bought it, so I got it replaced with a brand new crate motor under extended warranty. Including, alternator, starter motor, water pump, injectors, scv and hoses.

I blanked off the EGR cooler at both exhaust side and EGR valve side so the EGR cooler is totally blocked and bypassed.

I also have BAS 165bhp remap with EGR delete, speed limiter removed, BAS upgraded intercooler, Nugget stuff airbox & larger intake & Safari snorkel.

I have heat wrapped a brand new manifold, and terrafirma decat downpipe with exhaust wrap.

I am still running the factory turbo that came off the old engine which has 180,000kms on it.

I have also fitted a 78 degree thermostat from bearmach.

I am running a Madman EMS3. With dedicated EGT (in exhaust manifold), RPM, Engine timer, Coolant Temp, Coolant Level and Oil pressure sensors not relying on the ECU. All these sensors have audible and visual alarms set on them, so I'll know if I hit any values I don't like and hopefully prevent any damage.

Engine has only 7 hours on it so far and I have not been able to get EGT temps to 500 degrees Celsius no matter how hard I push it.

It's early days but I am hoping all the mods payoff in the EGT temp results.

I am trying to gain confidence in the puma and Ford duratorq motor. Time will tell.

Thanks,

Damo
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210414/6332456eeba4f4309cf71ba206b14833.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210414/5faed1099a93050c2209b7d2948464b3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210414/969f1f00567d1c6ace264b6482573686.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210414/e0ed0a1c2467dc74b8fb0bd00f3e373c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210414/4c8108256766d5cf27690b490021e7c0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210414/ae1c535a69cc995910ebf1f910ef285f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210414/5fba5774660ab830e2b21c7a2f1ed8c9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210414/c58aa98bb998a674338eb03b7f5f9120.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210414/27a256bfa04d8ac3e3bdbb58adb7c2b0.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210414/7d4f04c30812267aed959a577a6f745e.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210415/840571aa6beb9466004cbf26ad3853fa.jpg

[retromatic]

Hi Nando,

I saw your screen shots of the temps / reading your monitoring on your Puma. Looks like torque app.

Can you please tell me what skin gauges you've used so I can get the same view?

Also you message inbox is full and I couldn't PM you see the screenshot with the error when I tried to send you a PM

Thanks,

Damo
Update;

This experiment is concluded.

- My 2.2 runs LOW egts. Get the correct mods and you can rest assured that your vehicle will be well within a safe working range.
-the duratorq is an excellent engine. Torquey and strong. Happy to lug all day and great on economy
- the Alive tune and cooler are ONE OF THE BEST THING'S I'VE EVER DONE in terms of mods.
- the standard exhaust is restrictive
- now that the weather has cooled down I cant get anywhere near 600 degrees.

I love my puma, I love the way it drives exactly like our 3 ton Hino trucks and pulls exactly like they do. It won't ever win any races....... but it doesn't matter what I put in it, how many people are in it or how much weight I ask it to pull out when recovering our bogged trucks but it just does it and never complains. Very happy with my setup and hopefully some of you find this thread helpful/useful.

Cheers
Nandohttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210414/b9ecdd9e298272eeb36d415d9d41f4a5.jpg