HD Axle Install

[mike_beecham]

Hi All
Is there much involved in installing the HTE HD axles and flanges?
Home job?

Thanks,
Michael

[isuzurover]

It is about a 30 min job and you don't even need to remove the wheels.

However if you have greased hubs it is best to convert to oil lubricated at the same time. This is simply a matter of removing the hub and replacing the inner seal.

[mike_beecham]

Thanks.
My 2011 130 would have greased hubs for sure.
I will hunt some inner seals!

Thanks

[weeds]

It is about a 30 min job and you don't even need to remove the wheels.



However if you have greased hubs it is best to convert to oil lubricated at the same time. This is simply a matter of removing the hub and replacing the inner seal.



Replacing inner seal?? Is this the hub seal??

Oh you need to remove the axle seal as well.

When I received my MAXI-Drive axles many years ago they can with instruction on swapping over to oil lube'd bearings.

[Lionel]

It is about a 30 min job and you don't even need to remove the wheels.

However if you have greased hubs it is best to convert to oil lubricated at the same time. This is simply a matter of removing the hub and replacing the inner seal.

There's rather a lot more than that involved in this job. Yes, the hub inner seal needs to be replaced with the double lipped seal as fitted to the County hubs, but the stub axle seal also needs to be removed, & this will mean removing the needle roller bearing to get at the seal to remove it, & then replacing the needle roller. You will need to at least remove the stub axles as well as the hub in order to do this. Rather than removing the stub axle seal it is possible to cut the lips of the existing seal to allow oil to flow through to the bearings - a bit of a bodge, but it does work.

There are various schools of thought as to oil lubed front bearings:If you want lubrication from the diff right out to the drive flange you will need to remove the axle tube seal as well. Otherwise this can be left in place, & just have oil in the swivel housing out to the drive flange with the above modifications.

Some people advocate drilling a small hole in the stub axle to expedite oil flow to the wheel bearings, but this is not really necessary, & can be argued against on the basis of weakening the stub axle. After all, it does take a quarter of the vehicle weight at each axle.

It is a worthwhile modification, but it does increase the chance of leaks, & required more ongoing maintenance checks of the swivel housing oil level at regular servicing.

Cheers,

Lionel

[isuzurover]

There's rather a lot more than that involved in this job. Yes, the hub inner seal needs to be replaced with the double lipped seal as fitted to the County hubs, but the stub axle seal also needs to be removed, & this will mean removing the needle roller bearing to get at the seal to remove it, & then replacing the needle roller. You will need to at least remove the stub axles as well as the hub in order to do this. Rather than removing the stub axle seal it is possible to cut the lips of the existing seal to allow oil to flow through to the bearings - a bit of a bodge, but it does work.

There are various schools of thought as to oil lubed front bearings:If you want lubrication from the diff right out to the drive flange you will need to remove the axle tube seal as well. Otherwise this can be left in place, & just have oil in the swivel housing out to the drive flange with the above modifications.

Some people advocate drilling a small hole in the stub axle to expedite oil flow to the wheel bearings, but this is not really necessary, & can be argued against on the basis of weakening the stub axle. After all, it does take a quarter of the vehicle weight at each axle.

It is a worthwhile modification, but it does increase the chance of leaks, & required more ongoing maintenance checks of the swivel housing oil level at regular servicing.

Cheers,

Lionel

I think you are getting confused between series and 110. I am not sure which bearing you are talking about. My comments were also focussed on rear HD axles.

[Judo]

I know which bearing and seal Lionel is talking about, just trying to remember the specifics. I think it is front hubs only. My D1 front final drive definitely has a seal and bearing in the back of the stub axle. However I'm pretty sure the rear doesn't.

[isuzurover]

...I know which bearing and seal Lionel is talking about, just trying to remember the specifics. ...

He said "needle roller". Only series landies have a needle rollers on the axles.

Here is the front axle assembly.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/11/28.jpg

There is an oil seal at 8 and 23 that need to be removed. 16 is a bronze bush. You can remove the seal (23) without removing the bush (16).

http://forum.difflock.com/userpix/2841_front_hub_2.jpg

[Blknight.aus]

on all beam rears simply installing the HD hub and flange is only an hours work pull the cap, pull the circlip and shims pull the axle and slide in the new stuff.

Converting from grease to oil on the back is as simple as removing the axle end seal in the stub however it wont take long for the grease seal to fail and then you're looking at a should have done it properly.

with practice you can do both sides in an hour but in reality plan for at least an hour per side. Very roughly.

Jack it up.
pull the axle and drive flange
remove the wheel
remove the brake caliper
remove the stub nuts,
remove the hub
remove the seal
Reverse the above putting in your new seals and parts on the way.

the front isnt too disimliar with the extra steps of either removing the stub axle or seperating the ball joint housing required to change over the CV and half shaft.

pulling the stub axle is faster but sperating the ball joint also allows you to change out the ball joint seal and do the railco as you convert it from the semi liquid moly grease to oil.

If you want to goto a single housing configuration for the front you also have to pull a seal from in the axle flange to ball joint area. if you have the stub off and the axle out or the ball joint seperated you can haul it out by means of butchery.

[strangy]

[quote=isuzurover;2614540]He said "needle roller". Only series landies have a needle rollers on the axles.

Here is the front axle assembly.
There is an oil seal at 8 and 23 that need to be removed. 16 is a bronze bush. You can remove the seal (23) without removing the bush (16).



I know the main context is rear axles, however FTC861 (#21) is the needle roller in question and they are found on later model Defenders chassis numbers LA onwards as well as D1

[Lionel]

I know which bearing and seal Lionel is talking about, just trying to remember the specifics. I think it is front hubs only. My D1 front final drive definitely has a seal and bearing in the back of the stub axle. However I'm pretty sure the rear doesn't.

Yes, sorry for the confusion. I was fixated on front hubs & axles as I have just done mine recently. Like the D1s the TD5 Defenders do have a needle roller bearing in the front stub axle which does need to be removed to get at the seal. On the rear axles it is a much simpler job, though you must use the double lipped hub seal if converting to oil lubed bearings, otherwise you will be doing the job twice!

Cheers,

Lionel

[DazzaTD5]

Just some added info...

Ive made mention of this before...
I dont remove the inner axle seal as feeding the axle ends with oil isnt enough. Ive had numerous ex fire service vehicles in over the years, all had the inner seal removed and fitted with Maxi drive axles (the old HTE brand) and all had worn out the splines.

I fit initially with grease and re-grease the outer splines on customers Defenders that have HTE (brand name) axles/drive flanges fitted every second or third service.

Also if fitting HTE (brand name) drive flanges on the front with standard axles (perfectly acceptable), if the Defender is low mileage the splines will be a tight tight fit (a good thing) and the use of a sliding hammer will make it an easy job.

Regards
Daz

P.S sliding hammer with adapter that screws into front axle, my dad is the machinist.

[Judo]

I had another thought as to why there is no needle roller bearing on the rear of D1's at least - the drive member and axle are single piece. So there is no need to support the axle shaft through the stub. In the case of a separate drive member with splines, the splines must also keep the axle centred or it will rotate off centre. Correct?

Do any other vehicles (Defenders?) have the single piece axle and drive member?

[DazzaTD5]

Do any other vehicles (Defenders?) have the single piece axle and drive member?

Its doesn't matter, all Defender, Discovery 1/2 are all fully floating axles, as in the load of the vehicle is not born by the axle.

Just as a side note..
The last few month of production of the Defender TDCi (puma) went to a one piece axle/drive flange.

Regards
Daz

[Blknight.aus]

I had another thought as to why there is no needle roller bearing on the rear of D1's at least - the drive member and axle are single piece. So there is no need to support the axle shaft through the stub. In the case of a separate drive member with splines, the splines must also keep the axle centred or it will rotate off centre. Correct?

Do any other vehicles (Defenders?) have the single piece axle and drive member?

the needle roller in the front end is not present in the rear as the rear does not have a 2 piece shaft, its supported by the spider gear in the diff and the drive flange.

on the front the bearing supports the body of the CV and the drive flange supports the axle side of the CV. This locates the CV and the CV then located the half shaft with the sun gear of the diff supporting the other end of the half shaft.

There is a bearing in all of the front hubs in some its a needle roller in others its a bush type bearing.

All landrovers (save the original series 1) with beam axles run a fully floating axle even though in the rangie and the disco have the flange made as part of the driving shaft, the simple test to prove the type of axle configuration is to remove (or break) the drive shaft.

If the wheel (hub) doesnt loose any alignment you had a fully floating axle
The wheel goes wonky but remains vaguely in position or attached to the vehicle then it was semi floating
if the wheel comes away with the axle then it was non floating or a load bearing axle.

Keep in mind that thats a very rough outline as depending on the exact configuration of the hub and and the nature of the axle failure a non floating axle can act like a semi floating axle and a semi floating axle can act like a non floating axle.

[Judo]

Makes more sense now - the needle roller does support the shaft, but that's for the CV end, not the drive member thus it is a moot point in the rear. Thanks Dave.

[mfc]

If you pull the front stub it's simple to slice out the lip of the seal and leave it to space the roller bearing...I'm looking at converting my td5 front to oil in the next few months as I've got to do the rotors anyhow