130 wiggle at speed

[mwbrydon]

Hi all,

I'm a newbie so please feel free to point me in the direction of another post covering this issue or similar.

I recently bought a 130 dual cab chassis and it's developed a wiggle between 80km/h and 100km/h.

It was really bad and shaking the steering drastically, but I got a wheel alignment and balance and it's only a niggle now (doesn't come up through the steering wheel at all anymore). Tyres are ok, I've jumped under and checked the panhard bushes and suspension superficially and all 'seems' to be ok - No untoward movement or wear - not that I know exactly what I'm looking for.

It's still got a month's warranty, but the dealer has suggested this sort of rattle is standard for a Defender running at speed and that he gets in his 110 too.

It seems to be worse when I've got a full tank/carrying weight and almost non-existent when running on empty with no load.

Any ideas on what I should ask to be checked out or what the problem could be?

[Don 130]

The lower link in the rear suspension can cause similar problems if the bushes are worn. You don't say how old your vehicle is, or what mileage it's done. Someone with more ideas will be along soon.
Don.

[mwbrydon]

You don't say how old your vehicle is, or what mileage it's done.

Thanks Don, I'll have a look at the rear suspension.

It's an '08 MY07 with about 116,000 on the clock.

[strangy]

Problem solved with warranty.
Send it back and dont accept it until its fixed.
It isnt normal and tell the dealer nobody cares about his 110 or its accepted faults.

[MLD]

I'd focus attention on the front. You say it's worse with load in the rear which means less weight over the front.

Have you checked swivel bearings? I'd put a screw driver to all your front bushes as a little play can be excentuated.

You didn't say if you had a lift, if yes, you might also have a little castor action coming in at that speed.

The swivel balls is my bet.

[mwbrydon]

Problem solved with warranty.
Send it back and dont accept it until its fixed.
It isnt normal and tell the dealer nobody cares about his 110 or its accepted faults.

I agree completely, just want to go back and tell him what he needs to look at so I don't end up going round in circles (without a car).

[JDNSW]

This sort of fault is not particularly unusual for Defenders, but it is definitely a fault, not normal behaviour. It is often an accumulation of minor issues, with a fix to any one of them stopping the behaviour, but only temporarily until something else gets a little bit worse.

You have already got the wheels balanced, which is a good first step. Time now to do a few tests. You need a helper to do this.

1. Have the helper move the steering wheel back and forth while parked. Look carefully at the steering linkage and suspension links, especially the Panhard rod. Put you hand on each link, feeling for a click or clunk as the steering input is reversed. Any such feel is a definite fault. Check both ends of the Panhard rod, the drag link and the track rod. Check visually that the chassis is not moving sideways relative to the front axle (panhard bushes). Check the steering box is not loose and that the pitman arm is not loose on its shaft.

2. With the centre diff lock engaged and handbrake on, have the car rocked back and forth while you repeat this procedure feeling each end of both front and rear lower links and the A-frame ball joint and front bushes.

3. For each front wheel separately, jack it up and attempt to rock it holding the top and bottom of the tyre. There should be no perceptible movement. If there is, it is either wheel bearings of swivels (or both). Determine which be having your helper apply the foot brake - this stops the movement due to wheel bearings.

The Defender is made more sensitive to this sort of problem by oversize tyres and by suspension lifts, but as I commented at the start, should not be there. To some extent it can be masked by a more elaborate steering damper, but this does not fix the problems.

You should also check for loose or bent wheels, althouogh the people who balanced the tyres should have tightened the wheels and reported bent wheels!

John

[Tank]

Further to what John (JDNSW) said, a friend has a Defender, had a wobble, the steering box was loose, you could see rust and wear marks where it had been moving on the chassis, it could be anything from worn tie rod ends to wheel bearings that need adjustment to Swivel pre-load.
You stated in your post that you got a wheel alignment, be very interested to know what they actually did, as the only adjustment is Toe In or Out, so get details of what was done as a wheel alignment and if you paid more than $50 for a Toe adjustment, then you were ripped off, let us know the results, Regards Frank.

[DiscoMick]

Although the tyres were balanced, could a rear tyre be out of round?

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[mwbrydon]

Hi All,

I'm back in touch with the dealer to try and get the issue sorted.

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You didn't say if you had a lift, if yes, you might also have a little castor action coming in at that speed.

Haven't had a lift. Am going to check the swivel balls as suggested.

---

John (JDNSW) - Thanks for the very informative post. I'll work through those steps and see if I can diagnose the issue before it goes in.

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the steering box was loose, you could see rust and wear marks where it had been moving on the chassis

If there's no play in the steering wheel while the vibration is happening could it still be the steering box?

---


You stated in your post that you got a wheel alignment, be very interested to know what they actually did, as the only adjustment is Toe In or Out, so get details of what was done as a wheel alignment and if you paid more than $50 for a Toe adjustment, then you were ripped off, let us know the results,

I'll let you know. Didn't pay anything for it though, except for time wasted and without the car :p

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Although the tyres were balanced, could a rear tyre be out of round?

Could be - as John said, should hopefully have been picked up in the alignment and balance, but I'll check it out.

---

Thanks for all your help,
Michael

[weeds]

Front suspension bushes would be my call.......

[towe0609]

I had a wobble looked at recently, a combination of wheel balance and panhard rod bushes had me sorted.

[FV1601]

Easy one to look at, make sure the rear springs are seated in top bracket properly. If aftermarket shocks are fitted they maybe a little longer than normal, the spring can fail to stay seated when you lift one wheel. Upsets the balance of the vehicle noticeably. I have Terrafirma shocks on the rear, they do this quite often, a fix is on the list.
Unfortunately the worst front end wiggle, and recurring shudder I had was caused by the disintegrating front diff. (Quite possibly caused by the dealer checking my brake complaints by running the vehicle on stands and slamming the brakes on.)
Whatever it is, get it sorted while they still want to talk to you...
Rich

[Tank]

quote: "Quote:
the steering box was loose, you could see rust and wear marks where it had been moving on the chassis
If there's no play in the steering wheel while the vibration is happening could it still be the steering box?

Yes, but it could also be combined with what all the other posters have said and all together cause the problem.
The steering box is the easiest to check and fix, look for any signs of movement on the chassis and brackets and check with a spanner if the nuts and bolts are tight, if so, move on to the next probable culprit, good luck, Regards Frank.

[mwbrydon]

quote:
Yes, but it could also be combined with what all the other posters have said and all together cause the problem.

Thanks Frank, I'll check that out first - particularly if it's the easiest fix. Looks like i've got a fun weekend ahead of me!

The dealer has said that in his opinion there's nothing wrong with it and I'll have to pin point the problem area for him to look at. If he agrees there's a problem he'll fix it. Sounds like it could get messy...

[mwbrydon]

Hi All,

Sorry for the bump. Just following this one up with a (hopeful) conclusion.

Jumped under and checked all that you guys suggested and there didn't seem to be much play in any of the componentry. Gave up in the end and took it into Ritter's for them to check out.

They said that the tyres are scalloped but there's no issue with the suspension, the rear axel is completely worn and they also picked up a problem with the diff.

Unfortunately, none of this is covered by warranty. Tyres aren't covered full stop and the car is still safe, drivable and roadworthy with no major mechanical failings.

So I'm getting myself some new Mickey Thompson Tyres and rims for Christmas (currently running with tubes and wanted to make the switch to tubeless) and will deal with the rear axel and diff at the major service in April.

Cheers and thanks for all of your help,
Michael

[Tote]

Tyres can have a significant impact on wobble / vibration issues as well. SWMBO has a Wrangler that was developing the famed Jeep death wobbles. Tightening up the front suspension improved things but the fix was getting rid if the factory tyres. 100,000KM later and no problems at all.


Regards,
Tote

[mwbrydon]

Looks like I spoke too soon!

Issue with the new Wolf rims, same problem is back again hopefully sorted before Christmas...

[twr7cx]

What is the wheel alignment settings for these? With my D2a if I just leave it to the wheel aligner then it usually has a horrible pulse through the steering wheel when at highway speed, particularly on curves in the road. Following Justin Coopers advice it was redone at 0-2mm toe out (usually they are done toe in) - doing this solved the issue. Any chance the Defender requires similar?