Heat from transmission tunnel

[Baggy]

Hi All,

Purchased a 92 classic while my 81 2 Door awaits some spare time to do an engine rebuild.
One thing I've noticed is the heat that comes from transmission tunnel specifically where radio sits inside the cabin.

Seems to get mighty warm ....(warmer than my 2 Dr) ... in fact I've not needed to use the heater during winter though some may say it doesnt get cold in Perth.
Since the weather is starting to warm up again the heat from transmission tunnel is noticable again.

I purchased through ebay a Nubee infrared thermometer ...arrived in mail today.

Took the Rangie for a spin and checked tempreture at bell housing and the flat pan on ZF gearbox.

Read 74 deg C at bell housing and 58 deg C at flat pan on gearbox.

While playing with my new toy ....the radiator and and thermostat housing tempretures were reading lower than the above and engine was running at normal operating tempreture.

Appreciate your thoughts .....

Cheers

Baggy

[DoubleChevron]

Hi All,

Purchased a 92 classic while my 81 2 Door awaits some spare time to do an engine rebuild.
One thing I've noticed is the heat that comes from transmission tunnel specifically where radio sits inside the cabin.

Seems to get mighty warm ....(warmer than my 2 Dr) ... in fact I've not needed to use the heater during winter though some may say it doesnt get cold in Perth.
Since the weather is starting to warm up again the heat from transmission tunnel is noticable again.

I purchased through ebay a Nubee infrared thermometer ...arrived in mail today.

Took the Rangie for a spin and checked tempreture at bell housing and the flat pan on ZF gearbox.

Read 74 deg C at bell housing and 58 deg C at flat pan on gearbox.

While playing with my new toy ....the radiator and and thermostat housing tempretures were reading lower than the above and engine was running at normal operating tempreture.

Appreciate your thoughts .....

Cheers

Baggy

I'd added a few layers of this to the transmission tunnel in mine. It's very effective, as is the air conditioning surprisingly. I didn't expect a pommy vehicle to have a large effective air conditioner that moved a lot of air!

EZ Cool Automotive Insulation heat barrier and noise reduction for cars, trucks, classic cars, street rods and much more (http://www.lobucrod.com/)

I'm getting a lot of heat from the pedal area, but I'm pretty sure one of the big wiring bungs is displaced, so a lot of hot air can blow straight in from the engine bay when the radiator fans are running.

seeya,
Shane L.

[Davo]

I'm having the same problem now with heat from around the steering or pedals, and this is in a car with as much heat and sound proofing as I've been able to stuff in. I've checked and checked and still can't find where it's coming from.

[Baggy]

Shane - Thanks for link .... looks just what I need.
I'll remove centre console and front carpet to work out how much I need to order.

Davo - understand your pain ....the 92 Vogue I picked up is a great ride... miss my 81 2 Dr sitting behind the gate but she does ride nice and has a few extra creature comforts.

Unfortunately air-con dosent work ...previous owner was having an issue with steering and removed the compessor to get a closer look at steering column.
Turns out that wasent the issue .... but the return to centre steering dampener was the culprit.

I went back to him after I purchased vehicle and retreaved the air con pump ....need to refit, new belt and a regass ...hopefully thats all it needs.

Still be interesting to see if others can measure the tempretures of their transmissions at similar points for a comparison.

Cheers

Baggy

[DoubleChevron]

Shane - Thanks for link .... looks just what I need.
I'll remove centre console and front carpet to work out how much I need to order.

Davo - understand your pain ....the 92 Vogue I picked up is a great ride... miss my 81 2 Dr sitting behind the gate but she does ride nice and has a few extra creature comforts.

Unfortunately air-con dosent work ...previous owner was having an issue with steering and removed the compessor to get a closer look at steering column.
Turns out that wasent the issue .... but the return to centre steering dampener was the culprit.

I went back to him after I purchased vehicle and retreaved the air con pump ....need to refit, new belt and a regass ...hopefully thats all it needs.

Still be interesting to see if others can measure the tempretures of their transmissions at similar points for a comparison.

Cheers

Baggy

It should be a harddash rangie if it's '92. The evaporator unit is huge, and the fans move quite a bit of air. It will freeze the hell out of anyone in the front passenger seat ( so if you have a wife that tends to get "aggitated" when hot in old cars, it's quite good :angel: ).

The later soft dashes seem to have a smaller refrigerant capacity and less airflow. It'll be a mixer flap system like modern junk that seems to always be broken in modern cars that I own :wasntme:

seeya,
Shane L.

[Baggy]

Hi Shane,

Appreciate additional information.

I'll ring a few air-con places and get an idea of cost for re-gas etc.

Would be nice to get that working along with seats and electric mirrors.

I've researched and seen posts on electric seats ....a pain the a+#@ if you ask me ...specially the cost of seat switches and their crazy position ....not a lot of thought went into that exercise :mad:
Understand the reasoning for linking mirrors to seat memory but just another problem to go wrong for those of us who like to drive 24 year old cars ......got to love the simplicity of my 2 door classic.

I've purchased a set of matching Leather manual seats abet in a cream leather.
Being one who likes it all to match I'll re dye seats in matching colour ......that will be a project for next year along with engine rebuild for my 2 door.

You never have idle hands with a Landy ....

Cheers

Baggy

[DoubleChevron]

Why don't you see if there is anyone on here that can throw some bang gas into it for you. All you really need is a vacuum pump, manifold and some hi-chill -30. The hychill is very effective as an automotive refrigerant.

I have an old Robinaire dial-a-charge system. I just use the vacuum pump on it and charge by weight ( you can by 20kg scales for pocket change these days from ebay).

seeya,
Shane L.

[gavinwibrow]

I concur about the airflow. I've recently realised that my softdash has only about 2/3rd the a/c flow of my D2a and with a new compressor and regass in the RRC they are not suspect.

[DoubleChevron]

I concur about the airflow. I've recently realised that my softdash has only about 2/3rd the a/c flow of my D2a and with a new compressor and regass in the RRC they are not suspect.

If it's anything like most modern cars I've owned.... check the recirculation and mixer flaps. If hot/cold are working the mixer flap is fine. A/C seems to work best if all the flaps are working and you concentrate the cold air from just the dash vents (so you can guide cold air at the front seat passengers).

Some of the mixer systems are amazing if they are working properly (just look how well the aussie and american cars are with heating/cooling the interior).

seeya,
Shane L.

[Mercguy]

...It should be a harddash rangie if it's '92. The evaporator unit is huge, and the fans move quite a bit of air. It will freeze the hell out of anyone in the front passenger seat ( so if you have a wife that tends to get "aggitated" when hot in old cars, it's quite good :angel: )...

If it holds gas, it WILL freeze the pants off both driver and passenger - however the far RHS dash level vent doesn't seem to balance as well as the others.

It's funny... That foam insulation is exactly what a hard-dash RRC needs - but not just on the metal, it needs it on the HVAC ducts as well - because so much cooling is lost in that huge cavernous dash-level distribution system.

The only really ****ty thing about the hard dash RRC's is that stupid control lever setup. it really is the pits. I've looked into a bunch of other arrangements, servo controlled, vacuum controlled... it's all just evil.

The ac failed on me for no apparent reason last year, after being as cold as charity and working well, but because winter approched rapidly, the heater was pressed into service and I delayed the overhaul - thinking I had a massive evap leak or somesuch.
Well, some other 'dash-out' work was required including the removal and replacement of the centre console, so I took the chance to remove that dash-vent panel and clean all the vents as well.
Found a bunch of decayed foam in the evap core, along with leaves and other crap, so did the needful there, replaced it all and of course, the blower fan speed controller decided to pack it in about 3 weeks later... :mad:

I happened to be working on one of my MB's down @ my mates workshop in CBR and they happen to do a lot of HVAC system work on really old cars, including retrofits etc, so we thought we'd at least vac it down and see if there were any leaks..... and surprise surprise, it held a vacuum.

So replaced the high and low side valves with new ones (not just the cores) and vac'd again. aok. charged it up with about 1200g of R134a and boom. it's so bloody cold now it's not funny. And it has been awesome in the ridiculous heat we've been having recently.

we had this spate of 36-40 deg days just a few weeks ago, and found ourselves driving in the RRC during the worst part of the day, just after lunch (where the car was unfortunately parked in full sun) so upon returning to the vehicle - aka furnace, windows were downed, car was started and ac turned on for about 30s, and then we got in, wound everything up and drove off.

within 30 mins the missus was complaining it was too COLD.

So my conclusion is that there's nothing wrong with the hard dash HVAC system if it's working, but it needs to have gas in it... :D:D

So my first port of call would be to check the hig and low side valves. Replace them even if you think theyre OK, vac it down and check to see if it holds a vacuum. If not, then don't go any further until you've checked everything for leaks (UV light on everything - most systems have the UV sensitive dye in the oil these days - if not then you need to run a dye through it to find the leak).

Anything that looks like crusty green coolant should be checked over as well.
also check the heater is able to be closed - because heat plus cold won't give you COLD.

It's really not a massively 'difficult' job to get in there and clean up the dash and blower etc, but it is time consuming, can be patience testing, but I suggest if you have a spare weekend to tackle it, get into the R&R of the plastic bits and at least vacuum / clean / check what you can in a day, before putting it back together and forming your plan of attack.

I estimate I would have spent approximately 4 additional hours over and above the other work I was doing, just 'getting in there while everything was out of the way' and that includes pulling the blower case, motor, evap, dash vents, cover etc apart, cleaning them, drying them, testing , (respraying the centre dash vent plastic as well) and reassembly.

Makes a huge difference to the air quality too. I found 25 years of dust and crud in there and was only too happy to see it gone. Next big job will be the hood cowl panel and getting in there and properly cleaning / overhauling everything under there.

OK that was a bit verbose, but You'll see what I mean when you start unbolting / unscrewing stuff. It makes sense just to get in there and do it while you have the opportunity, even if it is not a complete overhaul - it will still make a difference, and you will know exactly the state the hvac components are in.
:)

[DoubleChevron]

put some caps on the service ports that have 'O'rings in the lids. That way it won't leak through the valves ( easier IMO than changing the valves).

[Mercguy]

put some caps on the service ports that have 'O'rings in the lids. That way it won't leak through the valves ( easier IMO than changing the valves).

Somehow I knew you'd mention that, but my original service caps actually had orings on them.

The determination was made that the system outgassed from one of the service ports, and since replacing them as a complete unit is so cheap, it made sense to do so.

[DoubleChevron]

Somehow I knew you'd mention that, but my original service caps actually had orings on them.

The determination was made that the system outgassed from one of the service ports, and since replacing them as a complete unit is so cheap, it made sense to do so.

Interesting... I doubt it was the service valves in they had "O"ring caps on them :confused: I wonder if the gas will leak away again within a few months.

Vacuum will not always show leaks. It may only leak when under pressure (rather than suction). Did you see if it held nitrogen over a period of time?

seeya
Shane L.

[Mercguy]

I actually have the old service valves - I brought them back with me. Yes, it held pressure - but the tests were done on 2 separate days. Was not worried about it, because the sight glass in the rec/drier still showed refrigerant when compressor was on.
The usual suspects - aka pressure switches, tx valve etc were checked, but the whole setup looked like it had only recently been replaced - all new high & low hoses, the service valves were not in the Original locations etc etc. I was going to lay money on it being a crimp on one of the hoses.... turns out that the last person to touch the service valve (an apprentice) 'may' have inadvertently screwed it back on too tight... there are obvious witness marks in the cap from the schrader valve touching the step on the low pressure service valve cap, but both caps have been excessively tightened as the orings are nearly crushed flat.

Hence the new service valves. cheap & efective. about 4 bucks each from memory. (bulk from ashdowns)

[Baggy]

Hi All

Appreciate the advice on air conditioning system .....The post seems to have morphed in that direction :D

Is there any issues I will have due to the pump being removed and the system exposed to the atmosphere .....

Air-conditioning pump still sitting the shed.

Local mechanic said not good having system exposed to atmosphere as internal parts of pipes can rust causing other problems and the system to fail.

I know nothing about air conditioning systems .....

Cheers

Baggy

[DoubleChevron]

Hi All

Appreciate the advice on air conditioning system .....The post seems to have morphed in that direction :D

Is there any issues I will have due to the pump being removed and the system exposed to the atmosphere .....

Air-conditioning pump still sitting the shed.

Local mechanic said not good having system exposed to atmosphere as internal parts of pipes can rust causing other problems and the system to fail.

I know nothing about air conditioning systems .....

Cheers

Baggy

There is quite a few fridgies on here ... if you make a post down in the technical section, one of them usually replies. I've only done system that was "open" for a period of time. That was the one I fitted to one of my old cars.

I just flushed everything with shellite and lots of compressed air.... and changed the oil in the compressor ( you can't leave the oil exposed to air, it takes up moisture rapidly). I never did figure out the recharge oil amount. The old SD compressor in that car had a dipstick you could make up. You first had to regass and use the system... then recover the refrigerant... crack the oil filler plug open on the compressor and use your fabricated dipstick to find the oil level... adjust the level if required.... then re-vac it down .. recharge with refrigerant etc....

seeya,
Shane L.

[Davo]

Hi All

Appreciate the advice on air conditioning system .....The post seems to have morphed in that direction :D

Is there any issues I will have due to the pump being removed and the system exposed to the atmosphere .....

Air-conditioning pump still sitting the shed.

Local mechanic said not good having system exposed to atmosphere as internal parts of pipes can rust causing other problems and the system to fail.

I know nothing about air conditioning systems .....

Cheers

Baggy

As alluded to above, the compressor oil has to be changed, the drier has to be replaced, and if you can get the rest of the system flushed that would be good. Unlike, for instance, a leaky gearbox, aircon is one of those things where the whole system has to be in excellent shape to work properly, otherwise it's just one headache after another.

[Baggy]

Thanks Shane and Davo ....

Shane I'll post something in the technical section and go from there.

Davo - Understand its a system you either do it properly or don't do it at all....that's why this forum is such a wealth of knowledge for those of us who don't know.

I'll check my local mechanic that services our company vehicles to try and get my head around cost involved.
If they can give me an indication of cost (budget purposes) this will tell me how realistic reinstating the air- con will be and going cap in hand to SWAMBO

Would the process be:

a) Refit compressor - Ill do that myself
b) Flush system
c) Regas system
d) Check for leaks (holding vacuum)
e) Replace dodgy hoses
f) Recover refrigerant
g) Change oil in compressor
h) Regas System
i) Replace dryer
j) WORKING SYSTEM :D

Understand that doesn't take into account if the compressor is not leaking either.


Cheers

Baggy

[gavinwibrow]

Don't forget I still have the compressor ex that wrecked 93 chassis you had - with the pipe ends sealed.

[Davo]

Thanks Shane and Davo ....

Shane I'll post something in the technical section and go from there.

Davo - Understand its a system you either do it properly or don't do it at all....that's why this forum is such a wealth of knowledge for those of us who don't know.

I'll check my local mechanic that services our company vehicles to try and get my head around cost involved.
If they can give me an indication of cost (budget purposes) this will tell me how realistic reinstating the air- con will be and going cap in hand to SWAMBO

Would the process be:

a) Refit compressor - Ill do that myself
b) Flush system
c) Regas system
d) Check for leaks (holding vacuum)
e) Replace dodgy hoses
f) Recover refrigerant
g) Change oil in compressor
h) Regas System
i) Replace dryer
j) WORKING SYSTEM :D

Understand that doesn't take into account if the compressor is not leaking either.


Cheers

Baggy

Theoretically, yes. Except compressor oil absorbs water so it might be worth changing first. And if the system is in bits then it might be best to flush it all now. Was it R12 or R134 originally? Of course, as Mercguy, (and I, a few years ago), found out, the evaporator in the footwell will need a good clean too. Unless you did that already - I've lost track!

[Baggy]

Hi All.

Thanks to everyone for their advice and knowledge.

I've a better understanding of what's involved in getting system operational and I've also been given the name of an air conditioning place in Subiaco to check out.


Gavin - appreciate the offer ..... you have already been generous to me and I'll see what the air con person says ...maybe in touch :D

Shane - appreciate the leads on DIY air conditioning equipment ..... Not totally out of the realm that I could sort system myself but I will take the easy path of an air conditioning specialist looking at it first ....I'm not confident :(

Davo - Agree ... For dollars involved will leave it to trained professionals.....Also except for compressor being removed I believe the system is in tact.

If I do go down the track to get the system sorted I will invest time in cleaning the evaporator and other items.

Once I have idea of what $$'are involved to get system running I can then decide which way to go ....

Cheers

Baggy

[Mercguy]

Davo is spot on about flushing the system while you have the chance.

Make sure you check the TX valve. It's often overlooked. The TX valve can be the cause of compressor shutdowns (blockage) and poor cooling / pressure issues. the gauges on the ac manifold will tell you what pressures each side is running when it's charged anyway - all I'm saying is make sure you have checked everything because the system is designed to run sealed, so introducing any contaminants is detrimental - this is why a lot of fridgies will not work on an open system.

Hoses are just that - replaceable and not stupidly expensive. For the money, I would actually replace the hoses, You can even DIY with a hose crimper and buy your hose/fittings from ashdown etc. Why would you replace them rather than re-use? because the age and engine bay heat will see them off sooner than you'd maybe like, especially something that has aged.

receiver drier - it's something you replace regardless. They are a dessicant inside and absorb the moisture from the system, so if they are exposed to atmosphere, they're rooted.

Compressor - worst case probably rebuild it? but a couple of good flushes, and re-oil, making sure you get nothing but clean oil before you fit it up for the final time. Oh - and make sure your oil is compatible with the compressor AND the refrigerant. there are different oils out there.

I'm not a fan of hychill, it's extremely dry as a gas - but totally understand the r12/r134a arguments for an against. IMO R12 was and still is the best gas, but here the EPA say it's harmful to the atmosphere.... in reality it's far less harmful than other gasses, but you can't argue with government bigots.

My system took 1.3kg of r134a, and is ice ice baby too cold.

Make sure your wiring of the pressure switches and compressor clutch are sound.

One thing I really love about the RRC is the size of the evaporator. It's truly oversize, and because of this, the system performance is awesome. If you compared it to the ****weak evap core in say, my 560SL merc, then you'd die laughing.

But getting back to the original 'heat soak' issue.... in my 91, the floor and tunnel insulation are quite thick, and do a fairly decent job. I'm not sure how earlier models were done, but one thing to definitely consider is using something like dynamat etc underneath the factory insulation, or replace it with something more efficient.

I have a fair bit of dynamat experience, and will say it serves 2 purposes. The main purpose is sound deadening. Secondary purpose is heat shielding. It was not designed as a heat shield as the primary consideration - that's a byproduct of installation. It's specifically designed to add mass to a panel to stop resonance.

So if you are looking for a pure heat shield, then you'd need to look towards Shane's example of a foil backed closed cell foam type of insulation material.

[CountryHonk]

Thanks for this thread everyone.
You pushed me over the edge and I have added rejuvenation of heating cooling function to my RRC job list.