Disco 4 Automatic Transmission FAQ - 8 Speed

[Bytemrk]

The existing D 3/4 Automatic Transmission FAQ was created in the days of 6 speed transmissions in all.

Through the life of that thread things have got more complicated with the introduction of the 8HP70 8 speed in late 2012.

After some requests to split the thread - this new thread is where I will be moving all of the specific 8 speed posts.

The flow from post to post of the first page is likely to be strange as each post has been pulled out of an existing thread. However the intention is that going forward the 6 speed and 8 speed versions will have their own threads.

Where a single post mixes both 6 speed and 8 speed information (Or doesn't specify which box) - I've left it in the original thread.

The original thread may still also be useful to 8 speed owners for information about where to buy pans and oil etc.



I was a little surprised how few specific 8 speed posts there are - if you think I have missed one (or two), please report the post using the normal red and white triangle in the upper right and comment that it should have been moved to this thread and we'll sort it.

I'll come back in a day or so and clean up this last comment.... otherwise i think it is all split for you.... I hope that makes it easier for those with 8 speed transmissions!

[Melbourne Park]

...
Oh and the transmission changes much smoother and now don't get the delayed take off I was getting every now and then.



Oh ... my 2014 D4 SD 8 speed has a delay on take off ... I thought it was an electronic delay to lower stress on the driveline (full bore acceleration from stationary would be maximum stress on the driveline IMO).

But perhaps its something wrong?

[eddy]

Here's a great post on servicing the 8 speed DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Robbie's Guide To ZF8 Auto Transmission Oil Change (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic141425.html)

[Robbie UK]

Here's a great post on servicing the 8 speed DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Robbie's Guide To ZF8 Auto Transmission Oil Change (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic141425.html)

Thanks guys and it is great to see my guide down here.

:BigThumb:

[LRD414]

Thanks guys and it is great to see my guide down here.

:BigThumb:
That's not the only guide that gets a wrap down here Robbie.
For the 8 speed servicing, I've seen you recommend changing the fluid via partial flush (drain/fill) early and often.
What's your thoughts on the filter and filter changing?

Regards,
Scott

[Robbie UK]

Hi Scott,

I didn't know that I had traveled this far - although someone already has my user name!

If there is a mechanical issue with the box or a repair to the mechatronic then I would change the filter. If it is just an additional oil change then the filter can stay put. With regular oil changes I'd be happy to run with the original filter until 150,000 miles / 10 years. Outside of a big mechanical failure I have yet to see a degraded filter.

[Mungus]

Q1. Can the gearbox (8speed) be dropped without a body off job?
I have reported a small weep originally up on the 2nd turbo. Drain pipe was removed, checked and cleaned. Now that area has remained dry, but a small oil weep is accumulating around the starter motor bottom mount bolt flange. They reported rear main seal, which is a body off job that I really don't want done unless absolutely positive of the source.
I do have a small vibration through the steering wheel at 1800 & 3600rpm whilst under load at any speed which I reported. (Not evident in park/neutral) Maybe not related, but the previous post now opens up another possibility of this weep source. Maybe gearbox/torque convertor related? I noticed what looks like a blanking grommet on the underside of gearbox bell housing;
Q2. Will I be able to see much in there with an inspection camera through this, if it is a blank?

[Melbourne Park]

I have an 8 speed HSE with I think 34k on it, the vehicle is due for its service now.

I am wondering about getting the conversion gearbox sump arrangement? I have towed a 2.5 tonne van about 8k, so I am conservative about being able to maintain good tranny fluid.

This thread has become long, and it seems mostly about the 6 speed? I would like to be able to do part fluid changes?

Can a Victorian dealer do this without ripping me off? Or is there a LR specialist who might handle the gearbox part fluid replacements without hurting my extended LR warranty?

Cheers all ...

[mr_squiggle]

After buying a used D4 that had been used for towing with 45k on the clock I elected to fully change the transmission fluid & filter just to be safe at the 50k mark.
Sourced a genuine ZF pan and the Lifeguard8 fluid from Motospecs in Brisbane. It turned out to be a pretty easy job on a hoist & following the excellent instructions provided by Robbie on the UK site shown in previous posts, but there are a few little tricks that can make life easier.
Once the oil is drained the pan bolts can be removed with a #40 Torx driver. The fun starts with the four front & three rear bolts which are directly above the cross members.
I used the below tool which is part of a Halfords kit.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/831.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/832.jpg
Before removing the last of the bolts remove the bracket holding the wiring on the right hand (drivers) side of the transmission using an 8mm socket.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/833.jpg
Remove the last of the pan bolts and lower the pan & rotate it clockwise (viewed from below) to get it out.
Mine was pretty clean, as was the oil, and I backflushed the filter to have a look. Only minor wear elements inside, so all good.
Here's what the tranny looks like without the pan.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/834.jpg
From there it's just a reversal of the steps to get it back on.
Refilled with Lifeguard8 as per Robbie's instructions and reset the adaptions with the Gap tool and we're done. Tranny is smoother and drives nicely, not that it was bad before, just more refined.
Interestingly both the old & new pans have a spare set of the clips used to hold the filter in place, so it's likely that a filter on its own is available, but I haven't checked. The spare clips are visible at the bottom of the photo, stored vertically.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/835.jpg
Lifeguard8 fluid bottle & part number shown for reference below.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/836.jpg
Plan now is to drop the fluid at 40k intervals & change the filter on the third.

[mr_squiggle]

If anyone is interested the ZF website has additional technical information on the ZF8 HP70 here:
Cars | 8-Speed Automatic Transmission - ZF Friedrichshafen AG (http://www.zf.com/corporate/en_de/products/product_range/cars/cars_8_speed_automatic_transmission.shtml)

It gives some interesting info and shows:

Internal cutaway images showing the two brakes & three clutches as well as the torque converter.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/767.jpg

Exploded view of the internal modules

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/768.jpg

How the brakes & clutch packs select each gear. Makes some sense of how the adaptions work when looking at a scan tool like the Gap IID

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/769.jpg

Gearbox versus torque handling graph. Interestingly, at 600Nm the 'box has 100Nm "headroom" of rated torque handling capacity so it should last if not abused.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/770.jpg

[jwb]

I want to do a partial flush on my recently acquired D4 8 speed. Where do I source the Lifeguard 8 ATF locally (Melbourne) or is it an import via eBay?

[mr_squiggle]

I want to do a partial flush on my recently acquired D4 8 speed. Where do I source the Lifeguard 8 ATF locally (Melbourne) or is it an import via eBay?

There is a Motospecs at 4 Blissington St, Springvale & they will have the fluid. You may need a trade account to make it happen.

[LRD414]

The 6 can be purchased from Repco so presumably the 8 could be as well.

Scott

[mr_squiggle]

The 6 can be purchased from Repco so presumably the 8 could be as well.

Scott

Yes it can be purchased from Repco. The price was a bit scary when I called.

[LandyAndy]

Try a few odd dealers that use the box,could be cheaper.ie Chrysler,they use the box so do a few others.
Andrew

[LRDisco_Fever]

There is a Motospecs at 4 Blissington St, Springvale & they will have the fluid. You may need a trade account to make it happen.

Moto will sell at retail but for LG6 repco was cheaper ($1/L haha) otherwise you're correct, you need a trade account.

[l00kin4]

Had a partial flush (no pan replacement) on my ZF8 transmission by the dealer today.

My car has travelled just under 65,000km and I had no issues with the transmission at all. Just a preventative maintenance task as I plan on keeping it for a while.

Dealer quoted me 1.5 hours of labour @$190/hr plus 4-5 litres of ZF8 fluid @$95 / litre (plus GST)

When I picked it up (and queried the invoice) they told me the fluid price should actually be $135 / litre (plus GST) :no2: but did stick to the original quote and gave me a credit for the overcharge.

The service advisor said that they thought it was a good idea to do that flush before 80,000km (in spite of LR "sealed for life" mantra)

I'd like to tell you I can notice an amazing newfound silky smoothness but so far I can't notice any difference at all.

I did specifically ask them to keep some of the drained fluid to have a look at but they somehow forgot about that. [bighmmm]

So final cost for the partial flush was $285 labour plus 5l of ZF8 fluid @$95 - $495 all plus GST = Grand total $858

Is it worth it? Not sure

David

[LRD414]

Thanks David, I want to do the same thing for the same reason. I've been quoted quite a lot more than that by the local dealer and am yet to explore indy options.
I go the impression they hadn't done a partial flush before of an 8 speed. I think it was either 1200 or 1500

Cheers,
Scott

[DiscoJeffster]

It is worth it to ensure it will last a very long time. It's good news you can't feel a difference as it shows the old fluid was still in good health. Now the new fluid will support it for another 60k km. I guess I'd only question whether it was worth it based on how long you intend to keep the vehicle. I'm not sure the fluid changes will translate directly into sale price later, but it will make it easier to sell.

[l00kin4]

Thanks David, I want to do the same thing for the same reason. I've been quoted quite a lot more than that by the local dealer and am yet to explore indy options.
I go the impression they hadn't done a partial flush before of an 8 speed. I think it was either 1200 or 1500

Cheers,
Scott

That's interesting Scott. The initial response I received from the dealer was similar:
"The partial fluid flush of the transmission, I checked with the workshop controller and he advised approximately 8-10 litres of the 8 speed fluid at $95.00 a litre, and 2 hours labour at $197.00 p/hour. Approximately $1344.00."
My impression was the same as yours - they hadn't done it before.
I pushed back, clarified partial flush, no pan replacement and told them it should only be 4-5 litres of fluid. They actually did their homework then and came back with the 1.5 hours labour and 4-5 litres of fluid quote.
Might be worth giving them a prod
David

[l00kin4]

It is worth it to ensure it will last a very long time. It's good news you can't feel a difference as it shows the old fluid was still in good health. Now the new fluid will support it for another 60k km. I guess I'd only question whether it was worth it based on how long you intend to keep the vehicle. I'm not sure the fluid changes will translate directly into sale price later, but it will make it easier to sell.

I think you're right on all counts there. I tend to over-service a bit but generally happy to look after things. Hard to say how long I'll keep it but I prefer to assume longer and maintain accordingly.

[Melbourne Park]

I went to A & B Automotive with the Land Rover club. They are in Dandenong Melbourne. They rebuild Z F gearboxes for Australian manufacturers. They are fully approved by ZF hence they do the factory warranty re-builds. Their operation is pretty impressive - I think the vast majority of their work is on ZF gearboxes. They reckon the 8 speed is the best gearbox that's been made so far.

I'm up to 50k now and I've towed 10k. When I went to the meeting at A&B in February, someone said that an 8 speed conversion gearbox sump was almost available - does anyone know if they are now available, and who from? I'd like to have that replaced when I get the gearbox serviced. At A&B, they test the gearbox, check the gearbox fluid for gearbox wear indicators, change all the fluids, etc etc. and there's no affect on warranty either. Not sure though what they charge for the gearbox fluid.

[Wojer]

As I am a new LR owner, with a used Disco 4 & I am curious if others have experienced a similar chain of events.

Travelling home along the M1 north to Newcastle towing a camper trailer, I experienced a sudden lack of acceleration with vehicle slowing down but able accelerate to 80-90 kph. No warning lights came on.
As we were able to cruise with approx 50k to home, we cruised on to have a "HDC not available" warning pop up. (weird I thought as we were not in that mode) with only 10k to home & close to our exit we plodded on only to have a total shut down at the exit junction blocking traffic. (Now that's another story!)

My limited knowledge thought maybe dicky turbo as this loss of acceleration had occurred before but reset after stopping and turning off.

The embarrassment of a recover home and eventual trip to a non LR workshop has resulted in no clear conclusion apart from dirty over heated transmission oil & a recommendation to have another transmission service. (Vehicle serviced by LR Dealer 5k ago just before we purchased.)
A number of error codes were down loaded:
Engine Management


P2263 Turbo Boost Performance
P0700 Trans Control System (Malfunction lamp indicator)
U0101 Lost Comms with trans control module

Transmission

P0702 TCS Electrical
P1707 Transfer Case Neutral indication Circuit
P1707 Transfer Case Neutral indication Circuit

Anti Lock Brakes

U0101 Lost comms with Trans Control Module.
U0402 Invalid Data from TCM

Waiting on dealer to call me back to discuss options.

Thoughts anyone?

`

[LRD414]

Had a partial flush (no pan replacement) on my ZF8 transmission by the dealer today.
My car has travelled just under 65,000km and I had no issues with the transmission at all.
Just a preventative maintenance task as I plan on keeping it for a while.
I'd like to tell you I can notice an amazing newfound silky smoothness but so far I can't notice any difference at all.
I did specifically ask them to keep some of the drained fluid to have a look at but they somehow forgot about that.
So final cost for the partial flush was $285 labour plus 5l of ZF8 fluid @$95 - $495 all plus GST = Grand total $858
I've posted this in another thread but I think it should be added here.
Virtually the same reasoning and result as David's post:
$800 / 4L of ZF8 / no change in performance / 77,000km and almost 3 years.
The cost included around $95 for a new drain plug, which seems more excessive to me than the fluid or the labour.
No clean container to keep any fluid (I'd say just didn't bother) but reported as clean looking.

Regards,
Scott

[l00kin4]

I've posted this in another thread but I think it should be added here.
Virtually the same reasoning and result as David's post:
$800 / 4L of ZF8 / no change in performance / 77,000km and almost 3 years.
The cost included around $95 for a new drain plug, which seems more excessive to me than the fluid or the labour.
No clean container to keep any fluid (I'd say just didn't bother) but reported as clean looking.

Regards,
Scott

Hi Scott,
this prompted me to take another look at my invoice for this job and curiously no mention of and certainly no charge for a drain plug. Which is quite worrying given that the LR procedure clearly states that the plug should be discarded.. Coincidentally my car as at the dealer today for fluid replacement in the diffs and transfer case. I'll give them a call to check this.

David

[Wojer]

Interesting as I recently purchased a 2013 3.0L D4 with 103,000 Kms, which developed overheating issues even though serviced at JLR 2,000k previously. No fault codes present & no warnings displayed, after initial warning which disappeared after cooling period.
After a shut down and burning the gearbox oil, I had the oil replaced and new filter fitted. on the next trip, overheating warning occurred at 105Km mark. Allowed cooling period to only have a shut down 5km further a when stationary at a junction.. JLR couldn't locate a fault code, so there was no solution.
Located a LR specialised MECHANIC (not technician) who suggested possibly the transfer case oil should be checked & sure enough, it was black. This replaced & our next +100km gave a temp readout of 103°C
Having seen the location & size of the trans oil cooler, I suspect that size maybe an issue as well as a more frequent oil change, especially if towing and or travelling outback. The location does not provide a great deal of airflow either, especially sitting behind a cover guard!
Next run will be with a camper and a longer distance & we will be running temp readouts along the road to monitor & see if we need an additional cooler in the circuit.
There is a temperature build up when stationary as the torque converter is stationary and not pumping oil, hence the temperature buildup. The shut downs all have occurred when stationary at lights or junctions waiting for clearing of traffic.

Update

I have monitored the GB oil temp now on 3 trips.
1st trip was without towing camper, relatively cool day, after 107Km temp was 109°C
2nd trip was with a camper trailer (1800kg GVM), relatively cool day (26-28°C ambient temp), after 102km journey temp was 124°C.
Temp increase was as soon as we hit traffic coming off the M! travelling south into Sydney. We skirted around the northern Hills Area to gain a steady run.




3rd trip was a return journey with the trailer, on a warmer day (24-32°C day). We travelled through from southern Sydney Metro area in traffic:
1st temp warning was when ambient was 30°C. Rested for 20min to allow cooling to 119°C, but:-
2nd -4th Temp warnings over a 30min period of resting & cooling allowed us to reach family for a greater cooling period.
5-6th occurred after a a 45min rest and ambient had cooled to 22°C, but after 15km we were at 136°C and warnings again.
Our final rest & cooling was for 52min at the M! northbound entry and ambient fell to 18°C and we finally had a run home of 45Km with GB temp sitting on an average 109°C.

My observations are that while we have a reasonable air flow we are OK, but as soon as we hit Sydney traffic, the temperature climbs with little continuous air flow. Once over approx 120° threshold it appears as though there is little cooling effect to prevent temp build up.

Now "why is this so?"
Supposedly 3 tonne towing capacity & a 500Kg loading capacity allowing 200Kg tow ball weight.
On all occasions we have had little extra weight apart from the camper, but we have had cooling issues when unloaded.
We have an ARB bull bar, long range tank & wheel carrier fitted which increases the load but still 200Kg approx short.

Any thoughts folks?
I am resolved to having an extra GB cooler fitted to try & overcome the problem as travelling in the outback will have higher ambient temps.

[Disco Driver]

Interesting as I recently purchased a 2013 3.0L D4 with 103,000 Kms, which developed overheating issues even though serviced at JLR 2,000k previously. No fault codes present & no warnings displayed, after initial warning which disappeared after cooling period.
After a shut down and burning the gearbox oil, I had the oil replaced and new filter fitted. on the next trip, overheating warning occurred at 105Km mark. Allowed cooling period to only have a shut down 5km further a when stationary at a junction.. JLR couldn't locate a fault code, so there was no solution.
Located a LR specialised MECHANIC (not technician) who suggested possibly the transfer case oil should be checked & sure enough, it was black. This replaced & our next +100km gave a temp readout of 103°C
Having seen the location & size of the trans oil cooler, I suspect that size maybe an issue as well as a more frequent oil change, especially if towing and or travelling outback. The location does not provide a great deal of airflow either, especially sitting behind a cover guard!
Next run will be with a camper and a longer distance & we will be running temp readouts along the road to monitor & see if we need an additional cooler in the circuit.
There is a temperature build up when stationary as the torque converter is stationary and not pumping oil, hence the temperature buildup. The shut downs all have occurred when stationary at lights or junctions waiting for clearing of traffic.

Update

I have monitored the GB oil temp now on 3 trips.
1st trip was without towing camper, relatively cool day, after 107Km temp was 109°C
2nd trip was with a camper trailer (1800kg GVM), relatively cool day (26-28°C ambient temp), after 102km journey temp was 124°C.
Temp increase was as soon as we hit traffic coming off the M! travelling south into Sydney. We skirted around the northern Hills Area to gain a steady run.




3rd trip was a return journey with the trailer, on a warmer day (24-32°C day). We travelled through from southern Sydney Metro area in traffic:
1st temp warning was when ambient was 30°C. Rested for 20min to allow cooling to 119°C, but:-
2nd -4th Temp warnings over a 30min period of resting & cooling allowed us to reach family for a greater cooling period.
5-6th occurred after a a 45min rest and ambient had cooled to 22°C, but after 15km we were at 136°C and warnings again.
Our final rest & cooling was for 52min at the M! northbound entry and ambient fell to 18°C and we finally had a run home of 45Km with GB temp sitting on an average 109°C.

My observations are that while we have a reasonable air flow we are OK, but as soon as we hit Sydney traffic, the temperature climbs with little continuous air flow. Once over approx 120° threshold it appears as though there is little cooling effect to prevent temp build up.

Now "why is this so?"
Supposedly 3 tonne towing capacity & a 500Kg loading capacity allowing 200Kg tow ball weight.
On all occasions we have had little extra weight apart from the camper, but we have had cooling issues when unloaded.
We have an ARB bull bar, long range tank & wheel carrier fitted which increases the load but still 200Kg approx short.

Any thoughts folks?
I am resolved to having an extra GB cooler fitted to try & overcome the problem as travelling in the outback will have higher ambient temps.


The trans oil cooler is not airflow dependant. It users a heat exchanger through the engines cooling system, so don't be put off by the relatively small size.
Ensure the engines complete cooling system is in good order, though I suspect you've got other issues. Any previous history with cooling system problems/overheating?

Keep us informed as to what you find.

[cruiseh]

Any thoughts folks?
I am resolved to having an extra GB cooler fitted to try & overcome the problem as travelling in the outback will have higher ambient temps.




one thought...

Worth fitting a couple of high CFM computer case fans to an additional cooler and rigging them to come on by default when the trailer cct is activated? might be enough air flow to prevent it going over 120 degrees?

[Disco Driver]

So I drove a 550 km trip today in warm conditions (up to 42°) with only a 10 minute break. Not towing, pretty easy running. You'll notice vehicle speed is 110 though interestingly enough, Speedo was at 116kph.
Max trans temp reached 88° but typically stayed at 85.
Max engine temp of 92.
Max engine oil temp of 110 and stayed there.

For your info.

Cheers. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/626.jpg

[RickO]

G'day All,

Too often all we hear about is bad experiences but I just wanted to relate a very positive experience I had getting my 8 speed serviced at A & B Automotive Remanufacturing
(A & B Automatic Transmission Service | Repairs & Remanufacturing – AB Automatics (https://abautomatics.com.au/))

Geoff from A & B was very knowledgeable and transparent about the service process and the service was finished earlier than expected.

I will definitely be back in another 75,000km / 3years to keep my 8 speed fighting fit.

cheers
RickO

[LRD414]

Too often all we hear about is bad experiences but I just wanted to relate a very positive experience I had getting my 8 speed serviced at A & B Automotive Remanufacturing

I will definitely be back in another 75,000km / 3years to keep my 8 speed fighting fit.
What did you have done and how much did it cost Rick?

Cheers,
Scott

[RickO]

What did you have done and how much did it cost Rick?

Cheers,
Scott

What I gather was a standard service:

Removed transmission sump for internal inspection
No signs of excessive wear or contamination
Replaced sump/filter as required
Refilled with fluid and adjust to correct level
Completed final road test and visual inspection


*PARTS used:


PAN - OIL ZF 8 SPEED
OIL - LIFEGUARD 8


Total cost was $800 which I was happy with.

Also, there may be a steel pan on the horizon.

cheers,
Paul

[LRD414]

Thanks for the detail.

Also, there may be a steel pan on the horizon.
Did they indicate who's developing the steel pan, aftermarket or ZF?

Scott

[RickO]

It sounded as though it was something A&B were working on themselves.

[giskard]

Hi all. Have had our D4 (MY13) for 4 years and 60,000km’s. Been thinking of a fluid change on the transmission, but wondering if I should let sleeping dogs lie or at least wait till 75,000km’s. The km’s have been reasonably easy (town/hwy) and it still feels as smooth as the day we got it.

Also, any good places to consider taking it on the Gold Coast or is the dealer fine for this? Thanks in advance!

[cruiseh]

came across this "how to" on ZF website.. surprised its not been shared before?

Change - ZF Friedrichshafen AG (https://www.zf.com/usa_canada/en_us/corporate/aftermarket/spare_parts_corporate/transmissions_corporate/how_to_change_oil/change_oil.html)

[cruiseh]

and another, great explanation of the box, the technology, and its capabilities..

ZFs 8-Speed Automatic Transmission | Tech Dept. | Features | Car and Driver (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/zfs-8-speed-automatic-transmission)

[kelvo]

Penrite now have a LG8 equivalent trans fluid ‘ATF BMV’.

”ATF BMV may be used in ZF (https://www.penriteoil.com.au/knowledge-centre/oem-manufacturers-specifications-list/257) 6, 8 and 9 speed automatic transmissions where Lifeguard 6, 8 & 9 is recommended in vehicles”

ATF BMV (Full Syn) | Penrite Oil (https://www.penriteoil.com.au/applications/car-4wd/automatic-transmission/atf-bmv-full-syn)

[PeterJ]

Just to add to the knowledge base.
Did an fluid change on my D4, @106000 km, it had been previously changed at 49500 km so this oil has done about 57000km. Followed the Robbie's guide that is elsewhere in this thread, with no problems. My only deviation was that I replaced the fill plug finger tight while the oil heated to the 70 deg mark and I drained it a second time immediately after and repeated the process. For the final level check (post cool down) I added only 150ml. The oil came out quite black but no unusual odour compared to the new oil. The oil came out quite black after the first change at 49500 km as well, I have kept a sample of them all.
First drop resulted in 2900 g or about 3.6 L (or 3.42 L depending on the density value used, see below)
Second drop yielded 3627 g (I left it to drain overnight) which is 4.5 L (or 4.2L), so quite a difference so the next time I do it I will leave it to drain longer.

Out of interest and as a means of ensuring I know how much oil is coming out and going in I recorded the mass of all 9 x 1 litre bottles individually, also the mass of the empty bottle hence calculated the net mass of the oil for each bottle. The gross mass varied from 850 g to 900 g, the bottles from 78 g to 87 g (some of this variation can be attributed to additional
stickers and very small amounts of residual oil in the bottle) and so the net also varied from 768 g to 822 g.
One of the reasons I did this was to calculate the density of the oil, which I calculated to be 800g/L. I checked the MSDS for the oil and found it stated it to be 848kg/m^3, which is 848g/L.
On this basis of the MSDS quoted oil density not one of the bottles actually had a litre of oil in it. Quite a few did however if my calculated value is used.
I want to add that the measurements were taken using a digital kitchen scale, not a scientific NATA calibrated instrument so there are likely to be some errors. I did a cross check with another set of digital kitchen scales (different brand) and found they gave the same reading within 2g for 8 different objects so I concluded that they are not grossly in error. In the end, the important thing is to keep track of how much oil come out so that you can measure how much goes back in and avoid any underfill.

Peter

[DiscoJeffster]

Hi Peter. Levels should be set with the engine running at the specified gearbox oil temp. Refilling to replace only ensures you have the same as before, not that you have the “correct” level. There is no way to be sure that the previous fill was accurate. Still, your approach is better than guessing.

[GregMilner]

Just to add to the knowledge base.
Did an fluid change on my D4, @106000 km, it had been previously changed at 49500 km so this oil has done about 57000km. Followed the Robbie's guide that is elsewhere in this thread, with no problems. My only deviation was that I replaced the fill plug finger tight while the oil heated to the 70 deg mark and I drained it a second time immediately after and repeated the process. For the final level check (post cool down) I added only 150ml. The oil came out quite black but no unusual odour compared to the new oil. The oil came out quite black after the first change at 49500 km as well, I have kept a sample of them all.
First drop resulted in 2900 g or about 3.6 L (or 3.42 L depending on the density value used, see below)
Second drop yielded 3627 g (I left it to drain overnight) which is 4.5 L (or 4.2L), so quite a difference so the next time I do it I will leave it to drain longer.

Out of interest and as a means of ensuring I know how much oil is coming out and going in I recorded the mass of all 9 x 1 litre bottles individually, also the mass of the empty bottle hence calculated the net mass of the oil for each bottle. The gross mass varied from 850 g to 900 g, the bottles from 78 g to 87 g (some of this variation can be attributed to additional
stickers and very small amounts of residual oil in the bottle) and so the net also varied from 768 g to 822 g.
One of the reasons I did this was to calculate the density of the oil, which I calculated to be 800g/L. I checked the MSDS for the oil and found it stated it to be 848kg/m^3, which is 848g/L.
On this basis of the MSDS quoted oil density not one of the bottles actually had a litre of oil in it. Quite a few did however if my calculated value is used.
I want to add that the measurements were taken using a digital kitchen scale, not a scientific NATA calibrated instrument so there are likely to be some errors. I did a cross check with another set of digital kitchen scales (different brand) and found they gave the same reading within 2g for 8 different objects so I concluded that they are not grossly in error. In the end, the important thing is to keep track of how much oil come out so that you can measure how much goes back in and avoid any underfill.

Peter

Thanks for that Peter, I'm about to get my local LR indy to do a trans oil change (just ticked over 50,000km) on my D4 8 speed, they use Penrite oil but I want them to use the ZF product, which I'll have to buy...can you (or anybody else) advise how much I'm going to need? I thought it was 7 litres, but from what you're saying, you only took 4.5 litres of the old oil out?

[PeterJ]

Thanks for that Peter, I'm about to get my local LR indy to do a trans oil change (just ticked over 50,000km) on my D4 8 speed, they use Penrite oil but I want them to use the ZF product, which I'll have to buy...can you (or anybody else) advise how much I'm going to need? I thought it was 7 litres, but from what you're saying, you only took 4.5 litres of the old oil out?Yes 5 liters for a drain and refill should be enough. Do a search online, I think about $57/L is about the going rate. You might be lucky if you can get it on special from repco or sparesbox.

[GregMilner]

Yes 5 liters for a drain and refill should be enough. Do a search online, I think about $57/L is about the going rate. You might be lucky if you can get it on special from repco or sparesbox.

Thanks Peter, can't see any special deals online at the moment, Sparesbox has it for about $58 a litre, even on ebay it's about AUD$44 a litre delivered, I'll probably just get some from Motospecs.

[PeterJ]

Hi Peter. Levels should be set with the engine running at the specified gearbox oil temp. Refilling to replace only ensures you have the same as before, not that you have the “correct” level. There is no way to be sure that the previous fill was accurate. Still, your approach is better than guessing.Hi DiscoJefster, yes i did the final level check as per the procedure, hot oil engine running, sorry if I have muddied the water.
Weighing was the double check process.
[emoji106]

[Melbourne Park]

What I gather was a standard service:

Removed transmission sump for internal inspection
No signs of excessive wear or contamination
Replaced sump/filter as required
Refilled with fluid and adjust to correct level
Completed final road test and visual inspection


*PARTS used:


PAN - OIL ZF 8 SPEED
OIL - LIFEGUARD 8


Total cost was $800 which I was happy with.

Also, there may be a steel pan on the horizon.

cheers,
Paul

My 2014 (Disco on the bonnet) D4 8 speed is booked in next week; they still have not developed a steel sump; there are steel ones around (such as used by Dodge etc) but there is no transmission fluid filter attached to those sump guards. I'll let you guys know how much it costs. I expect around $800.

[loanrangie]

My 2014 (Disco on the bonnet) D4 8 speed is booked in next week; they still have not developed a steel sump; there are steel ones around (such as used by Dodge etc) but there is no transmission fluid filter attached to those sump guards. I'll let you guys know how much it costs. I expect around $800.You use a separate filter with a steel pan.

[justinc]

The 8spd plastic pan has a shorter pickup and as such can be fitted to a d4 without issue.

[justinc]

Google Image Result for https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Uq0AAOSwQctbO6he/s-l300.jpg (https://images.app.goo.gl/R93M5MdAPgkBsEgq9)

[loanrangie]

JC doesn't the D4 have a plastic pan anyway , both 6 & 8 SPD ?

[justinc]

JC doesn't the D4 have a plastic pan anyway , both 6 & 8 SPD ?

Yup. But the 8spd doesnt need a steel pan conversion....

[GregMilner]

Yup. But the 8spd doesnt need a steel pan conversion....

Hi Justin, I've been dithering about getting my transmission oil changed, but keep getting mechanics trying to talk me out of it - "too early", and "those things are good for 200,000km" etc etc.

I've bought the oil (Lifeguard 8) and am about to head off towing our 2 ton trailer to the Kimberley, about a 10,000km round trip. Am I being overly-cautious about getting the oil changed? The car has only done 53,000km, about 15,000 of that towing the trailer over the past couple of years.

And last, I saw earlier you commented that the plastic pan on the 8 speed can be replaced with another plastic pan, not a metal one, is that correct?

[envee]

Just had a full service on the 8 speed transmission, 2014 SDV6 SE, 72,000km. Had it done at The Transmission Centre, Underwood and the cost was $650, using "non genuine" fluid. Got quoted $850 using genuine fluid but Scott the manager assured me that the fluid used was as good as the genuine. They used genuine parts, filter etc, and Scott did make the comment that the non genuine pan was only a few dollars cheaper and didn't come with new plug and bolts that the genuine came with, so no-brainer really. Happy with the service provided.

[justinc]

I am 100000% opposed to ANY so called similar fluids. For goodness sakes LG8 is only $48/litre. You need 6 litres tops to do a standard service and pan replacement . WHY DO PEOPLE TAKE RISKS WITH NON GENUINE FLUIDS!!!

[justinc]

Hi Justin, I've been dithering about getting my transmission oil changed, but keep getting mechanics trying to talk me out of it - "too early", and "those things are good for 200,000km" etc etc.

I've bought the oil (Lifeguard 8) and am about to head off towing our 2 ton trailer to the Kimberley, about a 10,000km round trip. Am I being overly-cautious about getting the oil changed? The car has only done 53,000km, about 15,000 of that towing the trailer over the past couple of years.

And last, I saw earlier you commented that the plastic pan on the 8 speed can be replaced with another plastic pan, not a metal one, is that correct?

Greg at 53k you could probably leave it alone, unless 3 t boats or vans have been hanging off the tow bar?? I would probably do it at 80k though. I just did 3.0D4 at 90k and it was well worth doing... the vehicle had towed a bit and done lots of remote outback touring fully loaded.

Yes the original plastic pan goes straight back on. You lift the back of the gearbox up and wedge a socket between the crossmember and the rear gearbox mounting, then there is enough room to undo all the bolts and drop/ change the pan.

[GregMilner]

Greg at 53k you could probably leave it alone, unless 3 t boats or vans have been hanging off the tow bar?? I would probably do it at 80k though. I just did 3.0D4 at 90k and it was well worth doing... the vehicle had towed a bit and done lots of remote outback touring fully loaded.

Yes the original plastic pan goes straight back on. You lift the back of the gearbox up and wedge a socket between the crossmember and the rear gearbox mounting, then there is enough room to undo all the bolts and drop/ change the pan.

Thanks Justin - good to know. As it happens I've got it booked in for a front brake pad change next Wednesday, and their LR specialist said a straight oil change will only take an hour or so, so I may as well get it done since I have the oil anyway. Leaving it for another 30,000km means the oil I bought will be at least another two years old by then.
I was pleased to hear from him that they only ever use proper ZF transmission oil on Land Rovers - I didn't realise this when I ordered the oil from interstate. Handy to know though for future reference. Seems a lot of indies will only supply Penrite or similar.

[justinc]

Thanks Justin - good to know. As it happens I've got it booked in for a front brake pad change next Wednesday, and their LR specialist said a straight oil change will only take an hour or so, so I may as well get it done since I have the oil anyway. Leaving it for another 30,000km means the oil I bought will be at least another two years old by then.
I was pleased to hear from him that they only ever use proper ZF transmission oil on Land Rovers - I didn't realise this when I ordered the oil from interstate. Handy to know though for future reference. Seems a lot of indies will only supply Penrite or similar.

Good to hear about the oil, If someone wants me to use non ZF oil in their gearbox then I won't be doing the job, simple. Who is doing the work? Pm me if you want. J.

[justinc]

Just had a full service on the 8 speed transmission, 2014 SDV6 SE, 72,000km. Had it done at The Transmission Centre, Underwood and the cost was $650, using "non genuine" fluid. Got quoted $850 using genuine fluid but Scott the manager assured me that the fluid used was as good as the genuine. They used genuine parts, filter etc, and Scott did make the comment that the non genuine pan was only a few dollars cheaper and didn't come with new plug and bolts that the genuine came with, so no-brainer really. Happy with the service provided.

Saving 200 buckeroos to risk a 7k trans job??

Priceless, and very bad advice. I would suggest it is a profit margin driven decision , not a look after the transmission I have been entrusted to service correctly decision ...

I make no apologies for saying the above, I know for a fact that purchasing bulk through Penrite gives a huge margin allowance than through ZF, and the "best" part is that when the transmission develops issues it "wouldn't be down to the oil used"..

Anyway that's my opinion, take it or leave it.

[glenn20869]

Hi all. First post for me and my question is around the need to replace the plastic pan under the gearbox during a complete oil change. Mine is 2014 TDV6 D4 and I'm being quoted $515 for a new pan. They said they have replaced the pan with metal ones on earlier models so that customers don't have to keep forking out for new plastic ones but that a metal one is not available as yet for the D4. Excuse my ignorance, but why can't the plastic ones be reused?
Cheers
Glenn

[scarry]

For $200 saving,i wouldn't even contemplate it.

Its not like the oil is changed regularly,that sort of saving over a few years isn't even worth worrying about.

My Indie was the same,can use a cheaper oil,no way i said,the correct fluid only.
They did say that was by far the better option.


Its just like putting cheaper oil in the engine,to much of a risk,for a few $.

[justinc]

Hi all. First post for me and my question is around the need to replace the plastic pan under the gearbox during a complete oil change. Mine is 2014 TDV6 D4 and I'm being quoted $515 for a new pan. They said they have replaced the pan with metal ones on earlier models so that customers don't have to keep forking out for new plastic ones but that a metal one is not available as yet for the D4. Excuse my ignorance, but why can't the plastic ones be reused?
Cheers
Glenn

The plastic pan is actually the filter too. If yours is an 8spd there is no steel pan yet, however unlike the 6 spd the pan is at least replaceable without having to break off the pickup tube...

[glenn20869]

The plastic pan is actually the filter too. If yours is an 8spd there is no steel pan yet, however unlike the 6 spd the pan is at least replaceable without having to break off the pickup tube...

Thanks Justin. Yes, I should have said that it's an 8spd.
Has anyone dealt with One Stop Gearbox Shop through ebay? They are quoting $559 for 8L of ZF Lifeguard 8 fluid, the ZF OE pan/filter, the 13 pan screws and drain plug delivered to Perth WA. That's virtually half the price I've been quoted to have it done locally and that was using liqui-moly ATF1800 not Lifeguard 8.

[justinc]

That is very very cheap!!!

[kelvo]

Thanks Justin. Yes, I should have said that it's an 8spd.
Has anyone dealt with One Stop Gearbox Shop through ebay? They are quoting $559 for 8L of ZF Lifeguard 8 fluid, the ZF OE pan/filter, the 13 pan screws and drain plug delivered to Perth WA. That's virtually half the price I've been quoted to have it done locally and that was using liqui-moly ATF1800 not Lifeguard 8.
Good find, but and it’s cheaper to buy direct from their normal website, ZF 8HP70 Automatic transmission gearbox filter fluid service kit with 8L of oil (https://www.onestopgearboxshop.com/zf-8hp70-automatic-transmission-gearbox-filter-fluid-service-kit-with-8l-of-oil) it’s only £19.99 postage to WA.

It should also only be £214.19 for the kit, plus £19.99 postage, as they don’t remove the 20% VAT at the checkout stage. Which gets it down to the $430 mark or $470 if the Australian 10% GST is added.

[Jock McD]

G'day all. I have just completed my first partial drain & fill of the ZF8 on my 2015 D4 following Robbie's excellent guide DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Robbie's Guide To ZF8 Auto Transmission Oil Change (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/robbies-guide-zf8-auto-transmission-oil-change-141425.html) and have a couple of queries hopefully someone can assist with....
No real problems encountered with the actual drain and fill, apart from the time waiting for the fluid temperature to reach 69 deg c.
My questions relate to step 16 of the guide which states in part; "If you do have a diagnostic tool now is a good time to reset the gearbox adaptations."
How important is this step?
Can I do the reset using a Nanocom Evolution tool?
And if so can anyone give me a clue how to? I have searched this and the Nanocom forums without much luck.
Thanks in anticipation.
Cheers. Jock.

[justinc]

Personally I don't reset adaptions unless a rebuilt trans is being fitted. The box will relearn quickly with normal driving.

[Milton477]

I am about to do a second partial flush of my 8 speed at 100k km. I have been provided with the following fluid:

"Auto Fluid, FEBI, ZF 8, 9 Speed Synthetic Fluid, Bilstein includes ATF supplement added to oil"

Has anyone anything to offer on this alternate to Lifeguard 8?
Am I being anal about not wanting to use it when it comes a well respected independent?

I have some Lifeguard 8 left over from my first partial flush & stood it next to the FEBI for comparison. The colour is similar but the smell is different.
152453

Any thoughts anyone?

[TheCannyMan]

Hi All,

Has anyone priced a partial flush or full gearbox service from an indy in Brisbane?

Any indications on cost or recommendations on capable workshops would be appreciated, thanks!

Sam

[Milton477]

Hi All,

Has anyone priced a partial flush or full gearbox service from an indy in Brisbane?

Any indications on cost or recommendations on capable workshops would be appreciated, thanks!

Sam

MR Automotives in Redcliffe would be my choice.

[PeterJ]

Partial gearbox oil change today, as per Robbie's guide.
Done previously at 50,000 & 100,000 km (double flush at 100,000) this one was due at 150,000 but because of impending big trip with the van this change is at 141500, so a bit early.
Drained 4400g which is 5.5 lit if you use 800g/l or 5.2 @ 850g/l. My earlier post explains that comment.
A big thing from my experience is letting it drain overnight, it just seems to drip for quite a while so it gives the best partial drain outcome.

4550g back in, but a little more oil used overall accounting for a small bit of spillage. Had to again wait overnight to allow the oil to cool down to do the final level check.

The oil that came out was dark, but not as dark as previously ( I have a sample of all of the drains) and no discernible differentiation in odour when compared to the new oil, so that pleased me.

All in all a simple enough process for the DIY

Peter

[jwb]

For a change to the Penrite ATF BMV from Lifeguard 8 in my 8 speed D4 how should I go about it given my driveway drain and fill will only change a portion of the total fluid.

Several changes in quick succession I would have thought to avoid running the mixed products too long.

Thanks

[DieselLSE]

Personally I don't reset adaptions unless a rebuilt trans is being fitted. The box will relearn quickly with normal driving.
Neither does A&B Transmissions in Dandenong South VIC who are ZF agents and offer a full service for $774 (as of a couple of years ago, so might be a bit more now). They check that the software is up to date, but don't reset unless absolutely necessary.

[hiker]

Hi all,

Have been using my wet saturday researching transmission flushes - have read Robbie's Guide To ZF8 Auto Transmission Oil Change (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic141425.html) and all 14 pages in the Disco3UK forum topic - fascinating - however I don't have the facilities to do it myself.

There are machines that perform a fully automatic flush and refill which are no doubt used by many workshops - such as pic below.

184994

When I read Robbies Guide, I see a multi stage operation with precise instructions -

Qte ...

First fill the gearbox until fluid starts to drip from the fill port before retuning to the driver's seat. The ZF8 needs to draw fluid to all the key components for the oil level check to be valid. Failure to follow the correct steps may damage your gearbox. The gears, clutches, torque converter and oil cooler system must all be allowed to fill

12. The ZF8 gearbox uses a small chain-driven vane cell pump, mounted to the rear of the TC to circulate the oil. It is a very efficient unit and places very little load on the gearbox; it too must be allowed sufficient opportunity to prime correctly
- Start the engine (to draw oil from the sump and pump it around the gearbox).

- With the engine still running slowly add more oil through the fill port until it starts to drip again.

Return to the driver's seat and with a firm foot on the brake and checking the EPB is still applied:

- Select Reverse for 5 seconds.

- Select Drive for 5 seconds.

- With the flappy paddle select 2nd Gear for 5 seconds.

- Select Neutral.

To fully fill the torque converter the vane cell pump must run at a higher rpm:

- Throttle to 2,000 rpm for at least 30 seconds.

- Select Park.

- Allow engine to idle normally

13. All the components of the gearbox will now be fully primed with transmission fluid, with the exception of the oil heat-exchanger system. This system is thermostatically controlled. For the oil to prime and circulate correctly the thermostat must be fully open. Using either a thermometer on the sump or a suitable diagnostic tool, monitor the gearbox oil temp until it exceeds 69 deg C. This can take a while, so you can get a brew. Temp shown on IID, bottom right value indicating 68 deg C
14. Having hit the magic temp I consider it good practice to repeat the gearbox selections above, but it is not called for in the workshop manual.

- Replace the fill port finger tight for now.

- Turn off engine.

15. Having primed all parts of the system correctly the final level check requires the gearbox to cool-down to below 30 deg C. Even on a cold afternoon I managed to eat my evening meal, do some other jobs and drink my first beer before it was cool enough for the level check. Having achieved below 30 deg C:

- Start engine again.

- Remove fill port plug.

- Slowly fill with ATF until a fine thread of fluid leaks from the port.

- Replace plug and torque to 35 Nm.

- Wipe area clean and inspect for leaks.

- Double check that the temperature has not exceeded 50 deg C during the filling (if it has then allow to cool and repeat the fill check).

- Turn off engine.

- Replace undershield and 5 x 10mm bolts.

- Remove catchpan, tools and the safety stands.

- Clean any spills.

.... Unqte

So my question is this - when using this Auto Machine, are the steps above necessary, and are they the standard practice for LR Indy's and specialist transmission centres who use them?

Many thanks in advance!




Robbie's Guide To ZF8 Auto Transmission Oil Change (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic141425.html)