Size of LPG Tank / Mileage

[Baggy]

Hi All,

Is there markings (if any) on my LPG tank of my Rangie.

Its an ELKO Brand but I can't seem to see any identification as to the size of tank that I have.

The in tank fuel pump on the Rangie has died .... and running on gas only.
Not in a hurry to replace it as the LGP tank covers the access panel above fuel tank inside rear of vehicle and I will have to drop petrol tank in order to swap out old fuel pump.

I've been using the LPG gauge / switch as a rough indicator (4 green lights) of when to fill up and normally don't let it fall below two (2) of those as an average.

I've started recording litres (to fill) ... distances and have recorded 189Klms (51.64 litres to refill) and 168Klms (41.24 litres to refill) on two occasions while still showing two green lights.

For the six (6) refills recorded (865Klms travelled) I'm averaging approx 144 Klms between fills.

What's sizes do tanks come in .....I've attached a photo .....if no markings on tank can you who are more knowledgable give us your opinion on my tank size and roughly how many Klms I could get out of a tank.

Its a 92 3.9 V8 RRC

Cheers

Baggy

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Bee utey will probably pick it, but i need a wider shot, put a beer carton next to it,,

[bee utey]

There are many many different tank sizes. All of them must have an ID tag and a valid test date. Have a look inside the control box if you can work out how to open it. There will be a 2 digit number prefixed by WC (=water capacity in kg) and your LPG capacity is around 80% of that in litres. My wild guess is that your tank will hold between 65 and 75 litres of LPG when full. You could rely on a minimum of 3km, an average of 4km and a maximum of 5km per litre of LPG depending on how it is driven and how well it is tuned.

[scarry]

Is that mileage normal,seems be using a lot of LPG?

Back to bee utey:D;)

I can only compare it to our work vans that are a completely different application,and they use about half that.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

3.5kpl towing,,,
But the o2 sensors were shot,,

[Baggy]

Pedro ......bugger the tank runs between the spare to the other side ... No room for
a carton alongside which is a damm shame.

I'LL take a better photo tomorrow and post it :D

bee utey- appreciate your extensive knowledge .... I'll check tank tomorrow for any
identification and advise what I find.

Scary - O2 sensor ..... I'm an old school 2 dr Rangie person .....Where's the O2 sensor?
I love the 92 but miss the simplicity of my 81 2 door.

Can't wait till she's back on the road .... though the extra comfort and additional power
of the Vogue is nice.

I appreciate everyone's advice and I'll post the above information.

Cheers

Baggy

[Baggy]

Hi All,

Attached is better photo of tank and identification plate I found once I unloaded gear that most Rangie drivers keep on board ....full set of tools. spare oil, etc :D

bee utey - on the money as always ....looks like a 90L tank.

80% would give me a 72 litre tank .....is that usable gas?

If I work on 3 Klms per litre thats a range of 216 Klms ..... 4 Klms per litre thats a range of 288 Klms

I purchased Rangie in late April / May and so far have clocked up 4,084 Klms ....as you can guess she's not my daily driver (company car) and drive her mainly on weekends :(

When I purchased her I dropped all the oils, replaced oil filter, air filter and changed spark plugs as per bee uteys recommondations (and gapping)

She drives great ..... I've purchased new oil /oil filter and will replace when it clocks 5,000Klms of my ownership.

Based on above is the above milage (216Klms or 288Klms) realistic or conservative?

Tanks stamped 07 /11 Do I take it thats the 11 month of 2007 in which case the tank needs to be restamped this year?

Whats the cost for rechecking tank and system ....ballpark?

Given that gas is getting harder to find in the country would others recommend getting system removed ...replace my fuel pump in petrol tank and look at fitting a long range tank when funds allow?

I hope that I can keep her as my tourer and keep my 2 door as a Sunday driver when shes back on the road.

Being introduced to Disco's (V8i) and RRC (V8 3.5) I always understand that fuel economy and classic ownership don't go hand in hand but thats the price you pay when your smitten ...although my wife
would have thought I'd be over it by now.

That being said the gas tank inside does take up a fair chunk of room in the back ....although I have enjoyed the reduced cost in LPG gas.

I've not experienced any problems with gas and happy to keep it running on duel fuel ....pay for restamping tank and have the system checked.

So many questions on which way to go ....... your thoughts appreciated.

Cheers

Baggy

[bee utey]

72 litres is how many litres the tank should take from dead empty.

The test date should be MM/YY so the tank was likely restamped on May 2008.

Work out your consumption by keeping a record of fills and km travelled, then you're relying on more accurate figures.

No idea how much to test the tank, it varies wildly from tester to tester. You'll have to get your own quotes from your area.

[DoubleChevron]

Why would you bother re-testing the tank unless you had too :confused: Unless you need to get a RWC ... I'd leave well alone :)

seeya,
Shane L.

[Baggy]

Shane - you make a good point ..... Luckily in WA we don't have yearly vehicle examinations :D
As mentioned earlier I'd like to build her up as my tourer .....

Im happy to keep LPG if I can find a balance between it and the storage lost ... and it's availability outside the metro area.

I could be more of a hinderance (boat anchor) if you can't find LPG fuel while touring ...Hence the thought of a long range fuel tank as an option.

Im not in any hurry to dispose of the LPG ......

I'll take bee utey advice and keep a log of milage etc over the next month and distance travelled between fills .... to see what sort of range I get between fills.

Running on LPG only I'm coutious of not running out ......

Cheers

Baggy

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I can offer this,,
8 months on the road and with some planning ahead gas was never a problem,, lots of web sites that list "all" servos that sell lpg, I'd probably fix the pump and run both though--;)

[scarry]

I can offer this,,
8 months on the road and with some planning ahead gas was never a problem,, lots of web sites that list "all" servos that sell lpg, I'd probably fix the pump and run both though--;)

It is not just availability,it is often also the ridiculous cost of LPG in regional areas that makes it unviable.

Using the web to locate sites and i presume prices would be very helpful.

Slightly off topic,the latest LPG systems seem very reliable.The van i drive has just clocked 230K and the system has never been touched:)

[Baggy]

Hi All,

I've been keeping records of LPG use on my 92 Rangie.

We've established with bee utey assistance that my 90 litre (water capacity) tank x 80% gives approx 72 litres of usable LPG gas.

Figures to date

1,137 Klms using 331 litres at a cost of $261.88c
1,137 Klms divided 331 litres = 3.4 Klms per litre

I've divided some individual tanks and the figures works out at 3.65 Klm per litre.

Tehnnically ....if I were to run her to empty (72 x 3.4 Klms) = 244.8 Klm range.

I do mainly city driving ... but do have a numer of possible trip to the country (South of Perth) and I'd like to take the Rangie.

Should I work on average 200 Klms to a tank leaving (45 Klms) as a buffer to get to the next service station to fill up.

That way I can plan on a map distances and ring service stations along my planned route with LPG availability.

All thoughts appreciated,

Baggy

[DoubleChevron]

Your doing well.... I run mine to empty most times. I get about 180kms from a 67litre tank of LPG. It runs very nicely on LPG. I put the appalling economy down to use. My average weekly use is each day ... cold start, 1st and 2nd high range ... diff lock in through the bush to my daughters school (less than 10minutes) ... then 10minutes in stationary traffic around the school.... followed by a 60km/h 5 minute cruise to work. Then idling through the bush (though a better track) so 3rd gear high range (no diff lock required) to get home. So two cold starts and probably an average speed of 15km/h ....

To put how ****house the fuel economy of these things is .... 68 litres gets me 180'ish kms. My wifes crappy poogoe I just drove from ballarat to adelaide ... and when I was leaving adelaide to head back home a few days later ... I filled it's tank again .... and got $30 of deisel in .... bloody hell, we'd have got to adelaide and back on a 68litre tank of diesel.

seeya,
Shane L.

[loanrangie]

Wow that's crap Shane , both of my old rangies using the same lpg system would get 350 - 370 klms from 70ltrs, basic impco system on a 350 holley.

[Bradtot]

My 82 rangie with Imco gas holley carb and twin 45 litre gas tanks underneath would get me consistently 400kms per tank.
My 89 vogue with flapper injection and now with the same gas tanks and omvl gas I get 370kms per tank consistently.
I would like more but it is what it is.
My tanks need restamping and I am told its a $700.00 exercise and thats with me removing the tanks myself from underneath..Pig of a job.
I too amd wondering about gas as its 82cpl and there are lots of servos that used to have gas that no longer do.
I have my original petrol tank stored in my shed,so with that and my sill tanks would give me a better range albeit with a higher cost, but its not my daily driver and I only get to drive it on weekends.
My 2003 manual TD5 Disco on the other hand gives me over 1000kms on a tank of diesel..I likem both but the rangie still gives me the better smile when I drive it.
Brad

[DoubleChevron]

My 82 rangie with Imco gas holley carb and twin 45 litre gas tanks underneath would get me consistently 400kms per tank.
My 89 vogue with flapper injection and now with the same gas tanks and omvl gas I get 370kms per tank consistently.
I would like more but it is what it is.
My tanks need restamping and I am told its a $700.00 exercise and thats with me removing the tanks myself from underneath..Pig of a job.
I too amd wondering about gas as its 82cpl and there are lots of servos that used to have gas that no longer do.
I have my original petrol tank stored in my shed,so with that and my sill tanks would give me a better range albeit with a higher cost, but its not my daily driver and I only get to drive it on weekends.
My 2003 manual TD5 Disco on the other hand gives me over 1000kms on a tank of diesel..I likem both but the rangie still gives me the better smile when I drive it.
Brad

Ok, you guys have convinced me there is something wrong (weird given it runs so well).

So last night I decided to do some checks.. plugs look good, timing looks good, dizzie cap and rotor look brand new, .... But ... bugger me, the vacuum advance has died in the last 6months. Well THAT will effect fuel economy as you won't have the ignition advancing at low throttle openings. So I've thrown a working vacuum advance on it and set the timing to about 10degrees.... then set the AEB ignition advance unit to 12degrees advance on lpg (previously I had it at 9degrees)... Im not sure how far I can safely advance the LPG timing without pining

Then, I decided it was time to fiddle with the converter. First I bottomed out the 3 adjustment screws and counted the turns ( so I can reset it to where it is now if required ).

then followed this:



Start at the base tune point idle screw 8mm Top just open 1/4 turn next sensitivity 10mm screw wound out until the spring has no pressure on it. Next main power adjuster this is the inline adjuster in the vapour hose between the convertor and mixer set at the 50% mark eg screw it completely in and count how many turns out if there were 14 turns out set it at 7 turns this is the base start position for the full tune.
Now start the car up it will be running rich but don't worry yet now bring the car up to full operating temperature and when at full temperature we start setting the base tune.
Screw in the 10mm sensitivity screw until you feel the motor start to pull down this is placing pressure on the main diaphragm this is to stop the car stalling on hard turns and at this point the car will be running rough don't worry that’s what it supposed to do. Next screw out the idle screw the 8mm one until the motor is running smoothly don’t adjust to fast here eg 1/2 turn at a time and give the accelerator a short rev after each adjustment this is to seat the diaphragms after each adjustment, when the motor is idling smoothly stop there.
Not go to the main power adjuster in the vapour hose the one you set at the half way mark bring the revs up to about 3500-4000 rpm and hold them there and screw that screw out about 1 turn now start slowly winding that in until you feel the motor pull down in revs what you are doing is starving the motor of fuel at that point stop screwing in and wind out one full turn and lock the screw in place. Now test drive keep one thing in mind start with a clean air filter that is the biggest burner of fuel on a gas car if it can’t pull air then it has to pull gas.
TonyMac



I stole this from another forum ( Sprint Gas Tuning Help | OldHolden.com (http://oldholden.com/node/56967) )

So I followed these instructions ... it sounds absolutely lovely .... and bloody flies (even better than before ... if that is possbile). I found after a few full throttle runs in 3rd gear I could a teeny bit of leaning out (ie: slight hesitation as it's revving out). So I've given the power screw another 1/4 turn open. If I ever notice that again, I'll give it another 1/4 turn. But for now I'm very happy. We'll see if the economy improves or changes at all.






seeya,
Shane L.

[DoubleChevron]

Well I thought I'd check the fuel economy properly for a change... So I headed down to warnanbool towing an empty car trailer. 220km and 55litres of LPG. That's 25L/100kms. Probably about right (remembering a car trailer has little wind resistance like a caravan).

I filled up at Mortlake on the way home... and the car started missing and carrying on as I pulled out of the petrol station. It was absolutely bloody wild the trip home. Some places I was back to 55km/h ... the conditions ( wind rain and darkness ) were so bad. The car ran ... worse and worse. I figured I'd soaked everything under the bonnet so the ingition was playing up (though it didn't feel like ignition). Today ( 130km/h later ) I was greated with an empty tank red light... and a near undrivable car. I had to flick it to petrol just to get out onto the road. All these problems have happened since I filled up at mortlake. In desperation I tried to add more gas. I managed to get 30litres in (so not an empty gas tank ... weird, the gauge usually reads almost full ... until it's nearly empty). The car was instantly fixed by adding some fresh gas onto of whatever **** I was sold at mortlake. It's still only maybe 75% of the performance it should have. the gas gague only says 1/2full. Whatever **** they sold me at mortlake doesn't allow the float in the tank to float.

Whatever you do .... NEVER FILL YOUR CAR WITH LPG AT MORTLAKE. I'm guessing I'll just have to use the rest of the tank, 'cos I can't figure out a simple way of draining whatever **** they sold me out of it. What on earth did I actually fill with there ?? Whatever it is, it won't burn.

The weird bit .... with a trailer loaded with tractor implements (probably 1.5tons worth) ... still I got 25L/100 LPG driving home. I'm guessing it's the incredibly low speed I had to travel at due to the weather ... and the fact the car would barely run.

seeya,
Shane L.

[gavinwibrow]

Hi All,

I've been keeping records of LPG use on my 92 Rangie.

We've established with bee utey assistance that my 90 litre (water capacity) tank x 80% gives approx 72 litres of usable LPG gas.

Figures to date

1,137 Klms using 331 litres at a cost of $261.88c
1,137 Klms divided 331 litres = 3.4 Klms per litre

I've divided some individual tanks and the figures works out at 3.65 Klm per litre.

Technically....if I were to run her to empty (72 x 3.4 Klms) = 244.8 Klm range.

I do mainly city driving ... but do have a number of possible trip to the country (South of Perth) and I'd like to take the Rangie.

Should I work on average 200 Klms to a tank leaving (45 Klms) as a buffer to get to the next service station to fill up.

That way I can plan on a map distances and ring service stations along my planned route with LPG availability.

All thoughts appreciated,

Baggy
=====
G'day. Me again. Having been there, done that, including a work Falcon ute on dedicated gas (with a 600 plus km range), I'd never feel comfortable not having both fuels available in your case/scenario. Others may tell a different story, but I never got significantly better economy on country trips (but did sit on the speed limit plus a couple wherever I went). So, definitely don't rely on more than 200 km per tank! However, I do concur they run so much cleaner on gas.
Cheers Gavin

[bee utey]

Well I thought I'd check the fuel economy properly for a change... So I headed down to warnanbool towing an empty car trailer. 220km and 55litres of LPG. That's 25L/100kms. Probably about right (remembering a car trailer has little wind resistance like a caravan).

I filled up at Mortlake on the way home... and the car started missing and carrying on as I pulled out of the petrol station. It was absolutely bloody wild the trip home. Some places I was back to 55km/h ... the conditions ( wind rain and darkness ) were so bad. The car ran ... worse and worse. I figured I'd soaked everything under the bonnet so the ingition was playing up (though it didn't feel like ignition). Today ( 130km/h later ) I was greated with an empty tank red light... and a near undrivable car. I had to flick it to petrol just to get out onto the road. All these problems have happened since I filled up at mortlake. In desperation I tried to add more gas. I managed to get 30litres in (so not an empty gas tank ... weird, the gauge usually reads almost full ... until it's nearly empty). The car was instantly fixed by adding some fresh gas onto of whatever **** I was sold at mortlake. It's still only maybe 75% of the performance it should have. the gas gague only says 1/2full. Whatever **** they sold me at mortlake doesn't allow the float in the tank to float.

Whatever you do .... NEVER FILL YOUR CAR WITH LPG AT MORTLAKE. I'm guessing I'll just have to use the rest of the tank, 'cos I can't figure out a simple way of draining whatever **** they sold me out of it. What on earth did I actually fill with there ?? Whatever it is, it won't burn.

The weird bit .... with a trailer loaded with tractor implements (probably 1.5tons worth) ... still I got 25L/100 LPG driving home. I'm guessing it's the incredibly low speed I had to travel at due to the weather ... and the fact the car would barely run.

seeya,
Shane L.

Your "tune up" was probably done on a typical urban propane/butane mix and the gas you bought in Mortlake was pure propane as typically sold to country towns that also do bottled gas. You would have been running quite lean and could have just popped the bonnet and screwed out the power valve to compensate. This is why smart installers fitted LPG processors connected to an oxygen sensor just for the gas. Keeps better tune with different gas mixtures.

[DoubleChevron]

Your "tune up" was probably done on a typical urban propane/butane mix and the gas you bought in Mortlake was pure propane as typically sold to country towns that also do bottled gas. You would have been running quite lean and could have just popped the bonnet and screwed out the power valve to compensate. This is why smart installers fitted LPG processors connected to an oxygen sensor just for the gas. Keeps better tune with different gas mixtures.

Wow.. The idea I purchased 100% propane (ie: THE GOOD STUFF) didn't even occur to me. So you need more propane mixed in to get it to run .. Not less. That is backwards to what I was expecting :)

I'm glad I didn't ring the Mortlake fuel station and complain now!

seeya,
Shane L.

[bee utey]

Wow.. The idea I purchased 100% propane (ie: THE GOOD STUFF) didn't even occur to me. So you need more propane mixed in to get it to run .. Not less. That is backwards to what I was expecting :)

I'm glad I didn't ring the Mortlake fuel station and complain now!

seeya,
Shane L.

Simple chemistry. Propane is C3H8 and requires 5 molecules of O2 to fully burn to CO2 and H2O. Butane is C4H10 and requires 6.5 molecules of O2 to fully burn. A mixture adjuster set for a substantially butane mixture will result in too much excess air to burn pure propane well. There are other heavier molecules added to auto LPG that also cause mixture problems in simple LPG systems. Pure propane is essential if it is to be burnt indoors, e.g. in forklifts.

[DoubleChevron]

Simple chemistry. Propane is C3H8 and requires 5 molecules of O2 to fully burn to CO2 and H2O. Butane is C4H10 and requires 6.5 molecules of O2 to fully burn. A mixture adjuster set for a substantially butane mixture will result in too much excess air to burn pure propane well. There are other heavier molecules added to auto LPG that also cause mixture problems in simple LPG systems. Pure propane is essential if it is to be burnt indoors, e.g. in forklifts.

I didn't even consider mixture ... as low speed running was severely affected... using hardly any throttle as well, it was missing, carrying on... barely running. It's like the gas couldn't be ignited. Surely the power screw doen't effect it to the point where it will barely run with an almost closed throttle ...

Simply put ...whatever I put in the tanks at Mortlake .... doesn't want to burn! The tank float also doesn't float on it .... I'd imagine if it was 100% propane the tank float should float !

seeya,
Shane L.

[Baggy]

Hi All,

Just an update to this post .... I've been logging my milage, litres used, cents per litre LPG and cost to fill tank every week for last 11 months.
From my records I'm averaging around 3.5 Klms per litre of LPG x 72 litres gives me approx 250 Klms total range to empty.

Most of my driving is done around the city and I usually keep an eye on the milage I've done before refilling and have never pushed it close to empty.
Bee utey (as usual) was spot on with his thoughts on what the average LPG consumption should be early in this thread.

I replaced spark plugs in August 2017 to WR7DC+ gapped to 0.7mm as recommended again by bee utey (thank you) and the engine is noticably smoother at idle
and has that distinctive V8 burble and purr which is just magic

Overall this 92 Vogue with 3.9L 14 CUX for a 25 year old vehicle gets a big :thumbsup:

Cheers

Baggy

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I love a happy ending[biggrin]

[Redfoxie]

I was asking in a different topic about fuel efficiency. I have dual fuel and the Gas tank only takes 30l from the bowser, from empty to the point where it won't pump in anymore. but the tank is stamped WAT CAP 60L.
also the LED gauge doesn't stay on the Full (top led) mark for long, maybe 10km's max, but the rest run through longer.

Is there a problem with my tank? can it fill with water over time, or is the pick-up from the bottom of the tank? and why does gauge go to empty, but only takes 50% of what the tank should hold?

[bee utey]

A picture is worth a thousand words.

[Redfoxie]

Ok so my gauge lied to me. got 230km out of the tank before it conked out. took 54L to fill. that sounds better... still rubbish economy.