2017 Ford V8 Supercar?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15826892_10154996380188945_3156442796367998483_n.j pg?oh=8e2f47ce5ba4fc51c0cb8a3ae1562f9a&oe=58E548DD

[101RRS]

My brother took a delivery of a brand new V8 Mustang in late March last year. He arrived for Christmas dinner in his Crapota 200 series and when asked why not the Mustang he said it is the biggest piece of crap he has ever driven - even more than the Crapota.

In nearly 10 months of ownership he has only covered 1500km in the Mustang and I think it will be moved on shortly.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/1013.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/gazzz21/media/Forum%20Posts%20Album/Stevens%20Mustang_zpsuajxhy2x.jpg.html)

Garry

[Pedro_The_Swift]

There are several on the coast here,, they all look a million bucks!!

[Pickles2]

The Mustang has been a MASSIVE success for Ford Aus.
Just try & buy one, & see how long you have to wait.
I reckon they will get Mustang in V8SC.
Pickles.

[pop058]

My daughter's old boss has the ecotech version and a mate has the GT. Both very happy with them. I have only had a look at the yellow ecotech as it was a wedding car for my daughter last year but have been for a ride (passenger) in the 5.0. It is extremely comfortable and goes like a cut snake (pun intended :D).

[Mk1_Oz]

You can include any car in the Supertaxi series providing the body shell fits onto the 'one make series' chassis. Silhouette racing....blahhhh

But it sure looks nice.....

[Pickles2]

Yes, looking at Pedro's image, one can see why Pro Drive would like to run the Mustang.
I've heard nothing official, just "rumblings", but I reckon they'll run, and it'd be good to see a Camaro as the opposition, to keep the Ford V GM thing going, but I can't see camaro,......yet.
Pickles.

[cuppabillytea]

My brother took a delivery of a brand new V8 Mustang in late March last year. He arrived for Christmas dinner in his Crapota 200 series and when asked why not the Mustang he said it is the biggest piece of crap he has ever driven - even more than the Crapota.

In nearly 10 months of ownership he has only covered 1500km in the Mustang and I think it will be moved on shortly.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/1013.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/gazzz21/media/Forum%20Posts%20Album/Stevens%20Mustang_zpsuajxhy2x.jpg.html)

Garry
Horses for courses. :p

[Slunnie]

Yes, looking at Pedro's image, one can see why Pro Drive would like to run the Mustang.
I've heard nothing official, just "rumblings", but I reckon they'll run, and it'd be good to see a Camaro as the opposition, to keep the Ford V GM thing going, but I can't see camaro,......yet.
Pickles.

GM apparently are not doing the next Camaro in RHD, Holden are looking to bring in the next Corvette as their flagship performance car, which the next one will apparently be developed as a RHD also.

[pop058]

The Corvette would be the better choice for GM, but I recall reading something about the requirement to be a 4 seater ( as opposed to the current 4 door ).

Mustang in, Corvette out :)

[Pickles2]

The Corvette would be the better choice for GM, but I recall reading something about the requirement to be a 4 seater ( as opposed to the current 4 door ).

Mustang in, Corvette out :)
BIG Corvette fan here, but it'll never run Supercars, because it really is a "Sportscar" & classed as such,....maybe it could run in the "LiquiMoly" 12 hr,...LOTS of awesome cars there, and I note that the whole race is on FTA this year, with the top ten shootout on Saturday as well. This race is receiving increasing world acclaim.
Pickles.

[Homestar]

At least if Ford ran that I'd be able to tell the difference between the brands - they all look the bloody same to me.

No idea what Holden are going to do - they aren't even going to have a V8 option in any of there Aussie delivered vehciles...

Just shows the actual format and the 'V8' bit is totally out of step with what is going on now. I haven't watched this form of racing since they all became the same car with different bodies - I mean, what's the point of having identical everything apart from engines? You can't get behind a brand any more, because they aren't actual dealer cars any more.

Complete waste of time now IMO.

[AllTerr]

Won't happen

[Pickles2]

At least if Ford ran that I'd be able to tell the difference between the brands - they all look the bloody same to me.

No idea what Holden are going to do - they aren't even going to have a V8 option in any of there Aussie delivered vehciles...

Just shows the actual format and the 'V8' bit is totally out of step with what is going on now. I haven't watched this form of racing since they all became the same car with different bodies - I mean, what's the point of having identical everything apart from engines? You can't get behind a brand any more, because they aren't actual dealer cars any more.

Complete waste of time now IMO.
They ain't called "V8" Supercars, any more, it's now simply "Supercars".....because beginning 2018, we'll have V6tt engines with V8s which will be interesting from the parity point of view.
It will be up to the Supercars brand to make the series competitive & interesting. Sponsorship is a BIG issue for many teams, except for DJR/Penske & Red Bull.
People have been knocking Supercars for ages just as they knocked Group A/C when they were "the rules", and of course just as they knock the Melbourne F1 GP!!. Me?..I just love it,..I know people involved, I love the TV telecasts,(which is the main focus now)....ya can see everything & sponsors get FAR more coverage via TV,....same as F1.....which is the main focus (TV) for sponsors.
Pickles.

[Mk1_Oz]

PARITY......in my opinion that is everything that is wrong with the V8 Stoopidcars these days. Identical chassis, engines limited in HP so to a degree identical, aero kits modified to ensure equal performance so therefore identical.

Let them race!!

I realise that this category has a huge following as the racing is close and it is quite the specticle. I don`t like the parity side of it, I don`t like that they are allowed to bash into each other (part of the specticle) and I don`t like the overuse of pace cars to ensure when a team does get ahead that the field is brought back together so they can bash each other more.

Now, don`t get me started on F1...........

[Homestar]

They ain't called "V8" Supercars, any more, it's now simply "Supercars".....because beginning 2018, we'll have V6tt engines with V8s which will be interesting from the parity point of view.
It will be up to the Supercars brand to make the series competitive & interesting. Sponsorship is a BIG issue for many teams, except for DJR/Penske & Red Bull.
People have been knocking Supercars for ages just as they knocked Group A/C when they were "the rules", and of course just as they knock the Melbourne F1 GP!!. Me?..I just love it,..I know people involved, I love the TV telecasts,(which is the main focus now)....ya can see everything & sponsors get FAR more coverage via TV,....same as F1.....which is the main focus (TV) for sponsors.
Pickles.

But it's not even on FTA TV anymore is it? Just some BS highlights package, or has that been scrapped? Only 8% of Australians have Foxtel (and falling).

[Pickles2]

You're right there Gav, there is only 1 hour highlights on Ch 10, except for the Endurance Rounds, which includes Bathurst, which are telecast in their entireity,...which is the reason I got Foxtel, where the coverage is magnificent.
Initially I was refusing to go to Foxtel,.."Why should I pay for something that was previously free"? I said, so I resolved to watch the highlights on Ch 10, which after taking out the ads, ya'd be lucky to get half an hour of racing,...pathetic.
Anyway, I was advised by a good friend & team member, that I should get Foxtel,....it'll be far better than anything ya've seen before He said. So I enquired, adjusted my Telstra "Deal" which dropped by $25, then got the Sports package for $25,..result,..no increase in cost & I got installation & equipment free of charge,...a SENSATIONAL deal, and yes, for those like me that are right into it, it's worth every cent of $25.00 per month. Pit interviews, discussions with drivers, particularly after "incidents", tactics, team manager discussions, & top camera work, in & out of cars etc etc,...it's all good for us enthusiasts. I don't have Foxtel figures, but I'm aware that they're ok, otherwise it wouldn't be happening.
As a forum member has said, & I agree, I don't like the "biffing" (Brock & Moffat never did) & yes, I believe the safety car is "overused"!
Supercars cannot exist without sponsorship, and with the state of the manufacturing industry in Australia, sponsorship dollars are "tight", very tight. There are of course the big guys like Red Bull, who are into all types of sport around the World, but the biggest "shot in the arm" to the sport has been the inclusion of probably the most powerful motor sport identity in the world, and that is of course Roger Penske. Some of the minor teams are very good too, but like I said, I don't know how they do it in this climate, Brad Jones is a ripper, as Is "Jonno" Webb from Tekno, and then ya've got characters like Betty Klimenko, who's put in squillions! Quite honestly, I don't know how some of the guys sleep at night getting the funding, but they do (get the funding), so I admire them for that.
Ya just can't "let 'em race",...there has to be parity, otherwise the big, well funded teams will do more R & D, & they will develop better stuff, and lead the smaller teams, who don't have the same dollars behind them.
I know some people don't like this stuff, but they love their footy, golf whatever,....well let me tell you, I just couldn't watch that stuff all day, but Supercars,...no problem at all. But I ain't knocking the footy, or the cricket, or the golf, or the horse racing etc,..I just love motorsport, and I have I reckon, since I started changing gears for Mum in her 1936 Austin 10, a LLOONNGG time ago.
All is good, Pickles.

[Homestar]

Yeah, but I, like a lot of others have cancelled their Foxtel subsriptions due to ever increasing costs and the amount of adverts. With other streaming services available now, Foxtel is threatening to make itself redundant. If it wasn't for the sports channels, they would have gone bust by now. Although overall Foxtel claim they have an increasing customer base, that includes Bigpond Movies, Foxtel Play and other stuff they do - actual connections with a set top box are declining.

Without being rude, how much does it cost for a basic subscription with the sports package so you can watch the Supercars?

I now pay $9 a month total for Netflix and Stan (we have a family supscription for each which is shared 3 ways) - everyone has their own different log on from their own homes (none of this bull**** paying for an extra box to watch it somewhere else).

The only time I've even switched to FTA TV recently is when the Cricket is on. If that went to pay, I'd just listen to it on the radio.

Foxtel's buisness model is a Dinosaur and will be wiped out if they don't lift their game. They have a rapidly decining customer base - when I cancelled mine, they send a bloke around to pick the boxes up. I asked him how many he picks up now. His reply was 'This is a full time job for me now - I used to install them, but there's more money in diconnecting them and shipping them back now'. His van was half full of old boxes from disconnections - that was from 2 days work.

Just my point of view of course but what I'm trying to get accross is that there aren't many like yuo that are willing to connect to Foxtel just to watch the Supercars. The TV audiences will be a fraction of what they were, or could be.

How long before sponsors start noticing this and pulling their funding? I work for a company that has a lot to do with this series and who chucks in a lot of dollars. The sponsorship deal ends at the end of 2018 - I'll be interested to see what they do when this expires (I have no idea, just wondering - That's way above my pay grade, but they do very careful analysis when they put up sponsorship money, so who knows, but it will be an interesting yardstick whichever way they go)

[Pickles2]

I don't know how Foxtel works or doesn't work,...I just love the coverage, it's better than any sort of previous coverage, and I've been watching,....forever!!
Most of my friends have Foxtel,....and we love it,...they have provided everything they said thy would.
The Sport Package, as I said, was $25, but it cost me nothing, as there were other things in my package that I didn't need.
As far as anything else is concerned, it really ain't a worry to me. I've been watching Aussie Motorsport on Tv sinse 1967, and I remember the Ch 7 "Telecasts" then, of Bathurst, and in those days the telecast was interrupted for THREE HOURS for World Of Sport!!..remember Ron Casey & Jack Dyer,...thank goodness we've moved on from those days,...and for sure the same "knockers" were out there then,..."Why is this stuff on in the footy season"??!!
And like I said, talking "parity",...ya've gotta have it. Some may remember the Group A days when Fred Gibson was running the 4WD Nissan Godzilla (Dick Johnson's term!), with Skaife & Richards,...they were winning EVERYTHING, with the result that no-one wanted to run against them....at the Sandown 500 in the early 90s, there were only NINE cars on the grid. Holden would not run in most of the rounds in those days as their VN Group A simply could not win against the Nissan,...before that it was the Sierra, where Dick Johnson & John Bowe were almost unbeatable,....Johnson actually took his Sierra to the U.K, where he was winning his race against the so-called UK "Gurus", until forced to retire with a mechanical issue.
So Saloon car racing has survived, we've gone from 9 cars on the grid, to 26 in every round.
I used to go to Sandown, Calder, Winton etc, I started running car displays at Sandown in the nineties, but I don't go to the races anymore, I don't like the crowds, & it costs a fortune. Just have a look at the entry fees, and ya'll see that Foxtel is a bargain, & more importantly, I see & hear 100% more on Foxtel, than I ever did when I actually went there,...and I used to get to pretty good vantage points,...I was into photography in those days, so I got a "Press Pass",..which meant I could go virtually anywhere to get a decent shot!..on pit lane, around the circuit,..almost anywhere!
There are those that knock Nascar too,..they call that "Taxi Racing" too. Can't say I'm a "BIG" fan, but I did watch it when Ambrose was running,...."Taxi Racing"....well, AFAIC, it was pretty good, 200 MILES an hour, drafting, a bit of nudging, at 200MPH for hours on end,...pretty good taxi racing I reckon!!
Pickles.

[Homestar]

It's nice you all have Foxtel, but I bet there are a LOT of people out there that can't afford it even if they wanted it. Motor racing is watched by all types and a lot of working class as well who may not have the same access to things as some others (I'm not counting myself in here by the way, I choose not to have Foxtel for other reasons than cost), so it still leaves the vast majority out in the cold. A pretty ****ty thing to do just because Channel 7 hasn't got as deep a pockets as Foxtel. It's just a desperate cash grab with no thought or concern for the audience.

Parity - I hate it. I'm an avid motor racing fan but Supercars to me now rate the same as F1 - boring as bat****. It used to be my favourite form of the sport when it was freely accessible and actually was made from the cars the manufactures produced in one way or another. I much prefer to watch the classic racing, and motor cycles now.

I don't even know why they stick the brands on them now - it means nothing, and I think is one of the reasons I just can't seem to find a driver or team I want to support because I just can't relate to it any more.

I'm glad you love it - I wish I could to as I used to, but it's just been turned into a money game that doesn't care about those that are watching any more. :(

Just one more thing in this world ruined by the greed of the few...

[Pickles2]

All is good my friend, all is good.
Like I said, ya can't keep everyone happy, but I'm glad ya're an avid motor sport fan.
I'm afraid ya've gotta have parity,..it exists in most forms of motor sport incl F1.
Foxtel?...couldn't care less about Foxtel, if it fails tomorrow, then so be it?..it'll be Supercars admin's people's job to find another medium,....I don't care, as long as I can watch it, but the coverage now, is better than it's ever been.
The cost,....is marginal,...it is in fact zilch when compared to the entry fees to circuits, which are simply outrageous,..but of course so is entry to many sports.
Last time I went to Sandown I had a freebie, but I couldn't believe the number of people I saw buying family weekend passes,....for a family $2-300 AT LEAST, then ya've got ya food & all that sort of stuff,....not for me,...that's why I watch it on Foxtel, & if that ain't there, well, I don't know,...hopefully some other way,....but I ain't going to a circuit,....unless I get a corporate pass, which I've had a couple of times,...and that is the way to go,....but I don't "know" anyone these days, so there's not much hope of that!
Ch 7?...Mate, they've got HUGELY "Deep Pockets",....that's why they've got AFL (biggest Aussie sponsorship deal EVER), and the tennis. They just didn't want Supercars, which is fair enough,..and I tell you what Gav,...the ads on Foxtel are miniscule, compared to FTA.
Just one thing mate, "ruined by the greed of a few"?..Not quite sure what you mean by that, so if you could explain, that would be good.
Why I say that, is because, as I've already said, there's not too much "greed" around, infact, there ain't many "dollars" around. Would I put any of my money into Supercars (if I had any!!)?...the answer to that is NO WAY. I don't know how anyone gets a proper return on their dollars. I know of a few teams that would be having very serious concerns at the moment.
That's half, well not half, its pretty much all of the problem,....the corporate dollar is just not there.
But, at the end of the day, some people must think there's value, otherwise why would one of the biggest & most professional motorsport identities get involved in our little series, which is literally chicken feed compared to the stuff He does? I actually don't know why He did get involved!!?
Pickles.

[grey_ghost]

This is an interesting thread... I'm a bit of a motorsport fan - watching F1, Supercards, WRC, speedweek, etc.

I started to lose interest in the V8's when they banned the Nissan GTR, simply because they couldn't beat it. It used to be "build a better car, win on Sunday, sell on Monday".. Nissan developed the car to the current rules, but the local guys (Ford/Holden) couldn't compete with the likes of Nissan (who obviously have huge pockets) - so they conspired to create the V8 Supercars.. If you can't beat 'em - ban em... Even then I still watched the V8s for a while, but really started to lose interest when they started on the "parity" formulas... Same gearbox, same diffs - for the last few years you can't go out and buy a Falcon or Commodore that is raced in the series.. Yet some people must love it!!!

When Gav mentions greed - I think that he is suggesting corporate greed. Once upon a time people would drive their cars (sometimes even running them in) to the track.. But those days are long, long gone.. The "mighty dollar" eventually kills most sports (in my eyes).

Anyway - I like most forms of motorsport, and even had a Cams license a few years ago competing in basic club events, but I no longer have the passion that I once did.

The coverage is great on Foxtel (which I have so that I can watch the V8s and F1), but I found this year that I don't watch every race, when once I would have.

Carry on! Different strokes for differnt folks as they say! :angel::wasntme:

[Homestar]

All is good my friend, all is good.
Like I said, ya can't keep everyone happy, but I'm glad ya're an avid motor sport fan.
I'm afraid ya've gotta have parity,..it exists in most forms of motor sport incl F1.
Foxtel?...couldn't care less about Foxtel, if it fails tomorrow, then so be it?..it'll be Supercars admin's people's job to find another medium,....I don't care, as long as I can watch it, but the coverage now, is better than it's ever been.
The cost,....is marginal,...it is in fact zilch when compared to the entry fees to circuits, which are simply outrageous,..but of course so is entry to many sports.
Last time I went to Sandown I had a freebie, but I couldn't believe the number of people I saw buying family weekend passes,....for a family $2-300 AT LEAST, then ya've got ya food & all that sort of stuff,....not for me,...that's why I watch it on Foxtel, & if that ain't there, well, I don't know,...hopefully some other way,....but I ain't going to a circuit,....unless I get a corporate pass, which I've had a couple of times,...and that is the way to go,....but I don't "know" anyone these days, so there's not much hope of that!
Ch 7?...Mate, they've got HUGELY "Deep Pockets",....that's why they've got AFL (biggest Aussie sponsorship deal EVER), and the tennis. They just didn't want Supercars, which is fair enough,..and I tell you what Gav,...the ads on Foxtel are miniscule, compared to FTA.
Just one thing mate, "ruined by the greed of a few"?..Not quite sure what you mean by that, so if you could explain, that would be good.
Why I say that, is because, as I've already said, there's not too much "greed" around, infact, there ain't many "dollars" around. Would I put any of my money into Supercars (if I had any!!)?...the answer to that is NO WAY. I don't know how anyone gets a proper return on their dollars. I know of a few teams that would be having very serious concerns at the moment.
That's half, well not half, its pretty much all of the problem,....the corporate dollar is just not there.
But, at the end of the day, some people must think there's value, otherwise why would one of the biggest & most professional motorsport identities get involved in our little series, which is literally chicken feed compared to the stuff He does? I actually don't know why He did get involved!!?
Pickles.

Ads on Foxtel are terrible - far far worse than FTA for 3 reasons - for a start, it's a paid service so why do you have to pay to watch ads? You don't on any other service like this. Secondly the ads are the same EVERY SINGLE AD BREAK, and thirdly - they syncronise the ads accross all channels so you can't channel surf and get away from them.

Those are the main reasons that I told them to **** off - just couldn't take 20 minutes in the hour of the same adverts - I've got better things to do with my time.

The greed I was refering to was Corporate greed - they jumped at the biggest dollar rather than think about who they are putting this on for. As for the entry fees versus foxtel subs - the people I'm talking about couldn't afford to do that either, so they go without - like most things these days. The gap between the haves and have nots is just getting wider by small increments and this is exactly one of those things that are contributing - corporate greed, plain and simple. But that's a discussion for another place and time. :)

Enjoy the racing, I really mean that - I wish I could, but it just doesn't float my boat any more.

[Pickles2]

Well Gav, you raised "corporate greed" not me mate,...I still don't know what you mean. No-one jumped at the "BIGGEST" dollar, ..it was the ONLY dollar. And if the Foxtel deal hadn't been done, there might not be any Supercars, because the Foxtel dollars contribute to a great deal of the running costs of the sport,...no-one else was coming up with the dollars? I could go into what happened with Tony Cochran & co, but to use your words "this ain't the place". but if anyone was following at the time, they'd know what happened.
The "Ads"?...don't care "what" they are mate,..ya know why?.....'cause I don't take any notice of 'em,...none!!...but I'm really happy they are nowhere near as long as they are on FTA. I'd actually forgotten how long FTA ads were until I missed a Foxtel Supercars telecast, so I had to watch Ch 10 highlights, at which time I did notice, big time, the ads!!.
Gav, the ads on Foxtel are no where near 20 mins in the hour, that is what they are on FTA, and this was one of Foxtel's selling points,...far less ads.
"Mr Ghost". I know what you mean, but they didn't actually ban the GTR, they muzzled it, and they had to, because it was too good, no-one could even come close. It was winning EVERYTHING & getting better every race! That car had 4WD, traction control, a whole "armoury" of electronic aids, & massive power,..and it wasn't even properly developed. The word is that with the benefit of today's technology & development, even current Supercars would not see where it went,....as I said, NINE cars on the grid at Sandown!!..No one is gonna race if they haven't a hope of winning,..which is not the case with Supercars, as lower teams regularly are on the podium.
"Win on Sunday, sell on Monday"..Lol...I remember that phrase well, particularly as I was involved with the Motor Industry. Allan Moffat was the best, and has always been the best promoter of the Ford product in Aus. But today's cars,..no Commodore, No Falcon,...I don't see how it can work today,...unless ya race Hyundai's against Mazda against Toyotas etc, don't see how that can work,...any ideas?
And one MAJOR difference today that affects ALL of the teams,..can you guess what it is?....NO tobacco sponsorship,..made a huge hole.
Pickles.

[Homestar]

Well Gav, you raised "corporate greed" not me mate,...I still don't know what you mean. No-one jumped at the "BIGGEST" dollar, ..it was the ONLY dollar. And if the Foxtel deal hadn't been done, there might not be any Supercars, because the Foxtel dollars contribute to a great deal of the running costs of the sport,...no-one else was coming up with the dollars? I could go into what happened with Tony Cochran & co, but to use your words "this ain't the place". but if anyone was following at the time, they'd know what happened.
The "Ads"?...don't care "what" they are mate,..ya know why?.....'cause I don't take any notice of 'em,...none!!...but I'm really happy they are nowhere near as long as they are on FTA. I'd actually forgotten how long FTA ads were until I missed a Foxtel Supercars telecast, so I had to watch Ch 10 highlights, at which time I did notice, big time, the ads!!.
Gav, the ads on Foxtel are no where near 20 mins in the hour, that is what they are on FTA, and this was one of Foxtel's selling points,...far less ads.
"Mr Ghost". I know what you mean, but they didn't actually ban the GTR, they muzzled it, and they had to, because it was too good, no-one could even come close. It was winning EVERYTHING & getting better every race! That car had 4WD, traction control, a whole "armoury" of electronic aids, & massive power,..and it wasn't even properly developed. The word is that with the benefit of today's technology & development, even current Supercars would not see where it went,....as I said, NINE cars on the grid at Sandown!!..No one is gonna race if they haven't a hope of winning,..which is not the case with Supercars, as lower teams regularly are on the podium.
"Win on Sunday, sell on Monday"..Lol...I remember that phrase well, particularly as I was involved with the Motor Industry. Allan Moffat was the best, and has always been the best promoter of the Ford product in Aus. But today's cars,..no Commodore, No Falcon,...I don't see how it can work today,...unless ya race Hyundai's against Mazda against Toyotas etc, don't see how that can work,...any ideas?
And one MAJOR difference today that affects ALL of the teams,..can you guess what it is?....NO tobacco sponsorship,..made a huge hole.
Pickles.

No, Channel 7 did make an offer (I work for a company within the group) - it was rejected outright by James Warburton and they were asked to come back with a counter offer which they refused to do. It wasn't a rock bottom offer or anything dumb either - it was a 9 figure sum, but after they got a sniff of what Foxtel were offering - over $240 million, they played them off against them.

So they claim they need $40 million a year, plus their (large) share of ticket sales, plus sponsorship to keep the series afloat? Doesn't pass the sniff test as far as I'm concerned.

The GTR was banned - because rather than try and build a car that could compete, they just went and had a sook about it...

[Pickles2]

No, Channel 7 did make an offer (I work for a company within the group) - it was rejected outright by James Warburton and they were asked to come back with a counter offer which they refused to do. It wasn't a rock bottom offer or anything dumb either - it was a 9 figure sum, but after they got a sniff of what Foxtel were offering - over $240 million, they played them off against them.

So they claim they need $40 million a year, plus their (large) share of ticket sales, plus sponsorship to keep the series afloat? Doesn't pass the sniff test as far as I'm concerned.

The GTR was banned - because rather than try and build a car that could compete, they just went and had a sook about it...
Nope,..it wasn't James Warburton,...it was Mr. Cochran. Ch 7 had an offer on the table, which Cochran refused, and at that time there were no other offers. Cochran would not accept the Ch 7 deal, which was subsequently WITHDRAWN altogether, at which stage V8 Supercars had a big fat NOTHING. That is why the Foxtel "Deal" was accepted,..because they had nothing else!!...and it didn't happen straight away,......for a long time, there was no deal at all (we were all concerned there would be no deal at all!...so no racing), and when the deal was done, it was a lot less than what they were previously been offered from Ch 7, and way less than what they wanted. But it was the ONLY offer, so they had to accept it.
And that lower funding affects Supercars, and particularly the Teams, to this day,...in many ways.
I don't know anything about $40M P.A.plus their large share of ticket sales, plus sponsorship etc, so I can't comment on any "sniff test".
Can you enlighten me? I have NEVER heard anything like that from anyone. Our impression is that Supercars are operating on an extremely tight budget. However, although I do know many involved, I don't know anyone making big dollars, certainly far less than those involved in other Aussie sports, particularly sports like AFL, Tennis, Golf, Horse racing etc which simply cream Supercars when it comes to dollars,....jeez, they simply ain't in the same league! ,... because of where the majority of sponsors come from in Supercars, the dollars just ain't there.
Pickles.

[Homestar]

You tell it your way, I'll tell it mine. My info only comes from Middle management of the company involved so who knows...

Why would Tony Cochrane be involved - he sold his share to Archer Capital in 2012 ish for nearly $200M. He's the one that made it great, Warburtons the dude trying his best to **** it now. I though Cochrane was the CEO or something of the Gold Coast Suns by then?

Either way you've just confirmed that Channel 7 made an offer which you said previously they didn't do... ;)? It was withdrawn after they were extorted to increase it. I would have done the same thing, so Foxtels offer became their default - they had no choice after being such monumental cocks about it.

The $40M a year is what Foxtel pay them - a 6 year contract worth $241M. They also take a large part of the gate and almost all of the sponsorship dollars poured in - there is a lot. Our company pays them a wad load to have their name in certain areas. Think 7 figures, and we are a smallish sponsor. There are dozens of them, with the top 10 tipping in God knows how much.

'Tight Budget' isn't what I'd call it. Those at the top certainly aren't stuggling now are they? The teams get a bit from the buisness but mostly from their own sponsors, so if they're doing it tough that's an entirely different argument - I'm just talking about how much they take compared to what it actually costs to stage the events.

We obviously won't agree on this and have 2 very different views and sources for our info (mines not Google by the way) so I won't waste any more energy here. I am happy to agree to disagree, we've had plenty of chats like this before, and I sure it won't be the last. :). Have fun watching them, I won't be joining you. :)

[Pickles2]

Gav, your words, where did I say "Channel 7 didn't make an offer"?..in which post?
Tony Cochrane?..Yes, He did HEAPS for V8SC, He was actually the one who took V8SC from the 9 cars I mentioned at Sandown to the "Circus" that it now is,..without Cochran there may have been no V8 Supercars. But He is also the guy that knocked back the original Ch7 offer asking for more,....and it didn't come,..which created a massive crisis at the time, and which is still being felt.
And yep, He did sell out, did well out of it too,..good to know that you know the figures,.... I don't. Warburton is simply the man left to operate on the Foxtel deal forced upon Supercars, who were left with nowhere else to go, by the knock back from Cochran,..who is I think now the CEO of Gold Coast Suns.
Cochran did VERY well, very well indeed, & he ain't popular within Supercars circles now, many feeling "sold out" by him. Warburton is simply the guy trying to keep the show on the road, with less TV sponsorship, but far greater costs than Cochran ever had to contend with. I've never, obviously unlike you, ever heard a bad word about him. I wouldn't want his job! Sponsorship for Teams is now also a lot more difficult, because of the Aussie manufacturing economy, where most sponsorship comes from, unless ya're a Red Bull or a Roger Penske. Things are super tough in the sponsorship environment, which is not Supercars fault,...it just makes their viability a lot more challenging.,...a LOT more.
By the way, I don't get my info from google,..I love the sport, unlike some, always have, & get my info from people who are actually involved. The teams have been directly affected by the lower dollars from Foxtel, everybody has, 'cause those dollars don't stay within the Supercars "beaurocracy",...they go towards running the show,...ALL teams now receive less from "Supercars" because of Cochran's "knockback".....which is a big part of the problem.
Pickles.

[rangieman]

GM apparently are not doing the next Camaro in RHD, Holden are looking to bring in the next Corvette as their flagship performance car, which the next one will apparently be developed as a RHD also.

So apparently you have all the goss on what Gm and Gmh are going to do in oz and i guess the v8 super cars as well .
Is what you say fact or fiction i really would like to know how you know all this as far as i see it your dreaming or just wishful thinking :confused:.
Honestly why would they not do a Carmaro as it is based on the Ve ****box platform and all the engineering and durability was done at the proving ground in vic;)

[Pickles2]

Yes Rangieman, I'm with you.
Whilst I have no inside info, I cannot fathom for the life of me why GM do not do Camaro in RHD,..and they would have to do it "factory rhd" on the line, in the states, like the Mustang, for it to be competitive with Mustang's $65K Aussie price, and they'd have to do it for a worlwide market, because it wouldn't be worthwhile just for Aussie. But as things stand, GM are just letting Ford have this market all to themselves, and Ford are doing really well with Mustang in Aus, as evidenced by waiting lists.
Love the Corvette, but I don't see it as making any business sense, in RHD, for a low volume "Sportscar",.....but I'd LOVE one!
And in terms of the O.P., I'd LOVE to see Mustang V Camaro in Supercars, and ya know what,.....I reckon I just could!!..Wait & see!!
Pickles.

[Slunnie]

I found the article I read recently re the Corvette and didn't realise it was dated but there is still nothing more current that I could find that didn't reiterate what that article said about the Camaro being done only in LHD despite it being the Mustangs direct competitor. Another I read re the platforms was that the VE's platform for the Camaro is being replaced.

Actually, tonight I've read I lot of articles that say a lot of things!

[Homestar]

Yes Rangieman, I'm with you.
Whilst I have no inside info, I cannot fathom for the life of me why GM do not do Camaro in RHD,..and they would have to do it "factory rhd" on the line, in the states, like the Mustang, for it to be competitive with Mustang's $65K Aussie price, and they'd have to do it for a worlwide market, because it wouldn't be worthwhile just for Aussie. But as things stand, GM are just letting Ford have this market all to themselves, and Ford are doing really well with Mustang in Aus, as evidenced by waiting lists.
Love the Corvette, but I don't see it as making any business sense, in RHD, for a low volume "Sportscar",.....but I'd LOVE one!
And in terms of the O.P., I'd LOVE to see Mustang V Camaro in Supercars, and ya know what,.....I reckon I just could!!..Wait & see!!
Pickles.

You know what - I'd just about tune in again to watch that... :D

[Pickles2]

Gav, I didn't know you are a motorsport person.
I always have been, but mainly tin tops, muscle car masters, and of course I'm a VERY big "liker" of U.S. Muscle......if I had the dollars, it'd be a '70 Dodge Challenger 426 Hemi R/T, as seen in the 70s cult film starring Barry Newman (Petrocelli!) "Vanishing Point".
Just love V8s,..had a few Brock Commodores, HSVs, AMG C63, & my first car was a '48 Mercury!
So what is your "leaning" in Cars, Motorsport?
Pickles.

[Homestar]

Yep, I love cars and in general I love watching them race, but don't as much as I used to for some reason - oh yeah - they're all on pay TV now... :D (I won't go there again). Putting my thoughts on the Supercars aside for the moment, I loved watching them up to around 5 or 6 years ago and I pretty munched watched every minute of every round. I used to even take a portable TV to work if I had a job to do on the weekends it was on.

I love watching the old classics race - of just about any persuasion. Also as a motor bike rider I love watching bikes race. I generally end up at the Moto GP each year - we are heavily involved with the event so I get in for nothing. ;). Footage from the Isle of Man TT will always stop me dead in my tracks too. :)

Back in the day I used to live around 3 hours from Calder Park Raceway and still make it to almost every Auscar event when the Thunderdome was running. I'd also make the trip to watch the Drag Racing. That's one thing I really do miss from Foxtel - I use to watch the NHRA Drag Racing - awesome stuff.

So, my gripes aren't about me not liking motor sport - I genuinely have gone off the Supercars and think they took a wrong turn with how far they took the parity rules and the switch to Foxtel.

[Pickles2]

Auscar?.....jeez, you must be nearly as old as me.
Drag Racing?...Well, I used to go when they were held at Fishermans Bend!!...Ash Marshall was the "AA" Guru,..S/C 392 Hemi, about 2000HP, & a 7 sec quarter,...just a "little" bit quicker these days,...I think in the states they do 300mph+ in about 3.2 secs!!.....and no, I would not like to drive one.
Pickles.

[vnx205]

I sometimes wonder if they are going the wrong way about achieving parity.

Rather than insisting that the cars are almost identical in every respect, surely what matters is that all cars have roughly the same chance of winning each race or maybe just an equal chance of winning the championship.

Why is it not possible to have races between cars where one has an advantage in the corners and another has an advantage on the straights, or one has an advantage going into corners and another has an advantage out of the corners.

Wouldn't that make for more interesting racing?

Remember the days when the Minis used to mix it quite successfully with the Mustangs? That was worth watching.

Some tracks might give a bit of an advantage to one design while others might favour a different design. As long as there was a mixture over the course of the year, that could be quite fair.

[Homestar]

Auscar?.....jeez, you must be nearly as old as me.
Drag Racing?...Well, I used to go when they were held at Fishermans Bend!!...Ash Marshall was the "AA" Guru,..S/C 392 Hemi, about 2000HP, & a 7 sec quarter,...just a "little" bit quicker these days,...I think in the states they do 300mph+ in about 3.2 secs!!.....and no, I would not like to drive one.
Pickles.

No I don't think I'd want to drive one either. :D

I now live 10 minutes from Calder Park but there's bugger all on there now...:(

[cuppabillytea]

No I don't think I'd want to drive one either. :D

I now live 10 minutes from Calder Park but there's bugger all on there now...:(

Well just get on there yourself and have some fun. :D:burnrubber:

[Pickles2]

No I don't think I'd want to drive one either. :D

I now live 10 minutes from Calder Park but there's bugger all on there now...:(
I think Bob just lost his house,....Being close, have you heard anything?
Pickles.

[Homestar]

Hmmm, what would go best on a race track that I have in my driveway - the 101, overheating RRC or the work Hilux? I've got all the performance bases covered... :D. NOT!!!

I have driven a race car around there, much fun was had. :)

[Slunnie]

I sometimes wonder if they are going the wrong way about achieving parity.

Rather than insisting that the cars are almost identical in every respect, surely what matters is that all cars have roughly the same chance of winning each race or maybe just an equal chance of winning the championship.

Why is it not possible to have races between cars where one has an advantage in the corners and another has an advantage on the straights, Quick Links https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/misc/menu_open.gif (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/search.php'searchid=6428545&nojs=1#usercptools)or one has an advantage going into corners and another has an advantage out of the corners.

Wouldn't that make for more interesting racing?

Remember the days when the Minis used to mix it quite successfully with the Mustangs? That was worth watching.

Some tracks might give a bit of an advantage to one design while others might favour a different design. As long as there was a mixture over the course of the year, that could be quite fair.
Reminds me of the old Group A etc racing. BMW were fast in the corners, GTR was fast on power and stop/go tracks, Ford Sierra somewhere inbetween and the Commodore was fast nowhere. Thats when parity really blew up! I really like the old British Touring Car Championship rules where they were all reasonably close in power (2l formula) and adjusted to suit the manufacturers driveline (ie RWD/FWD/AWD) and then weight was added to any car that won. That kept them all racing tightly.

[Pickles2]

Reminds me of the old Group A etc racing. BMW were fast in the corners, GTR was fast on power and stop/go tracks, Ford Sierra somewhere inbetween and the Commodore , (VK Group Awas fast nowhere. Thats when parity really blew up! I really like the old British Touring Car Championship rules where they were all reasonably close in power (2l formula) and adjusted to suit the manufacturers driveline (ie RWD/FWD/AWD) and then weight was added to any car that won. That kept them all racing tightly.
There was no "Parity" in Group A.
All a manufacturer had to do in Group A was manufacture a stipulated number of cars that basically constituted the racing version, and you could race it in Group A..
In 1991, we had the VN Commodore. To race in Group A, ya had to manufacture 5000 "Group A" versions,...in Europe that is.
In terms of Aussie, because of our smaller market, that number was reduced to 500 (VK Group A 1986), but for 1991 VN Group A, that number was further reduced to 300, as long as the car wasn't raced outside Aussie,....which it wasn't.
So, obviously it raced against the Nissan & the Sierra, but in no way was their any "parity", as a consequence`of which, in a race in which there were no "incidents", and each car's results were a reflection of its ability, the VN Group A was absolutely slaughtered,....the results will show that, that is, when someone, including HRT, decided to front up,...sometimes they didn't!
Pickles.
NB: We did own a VN Group A road car, one of 302!!,....a pretty special machine!

[pop058]

There was no "Parity" in Group A.
All a manufacturer had to do in Group A was manufacture a stipulated number of cars that basically constituted the racing version, and you could race it in Group A..
In 1991, we had the VN Commodore. To race in Group A, ya had to manufacture 5000 "Group A" versions,...in Europe that is.
In terms of Aussie, because of our smaller market, that number was reduced to 500 (VK Group A 1986), but for 1991 VN Group A, that number was further reduced to 300, as long as the car wasn't raced outside Aussie,....which it wasn't.
So, obviously it raced against the Nissan & the Sierra, but in no way was their any "parity", as a consequence`of which, in a race in which there were no "incidents", and each car's results were a reflection of its ability, the VN Group A was absolutely slaughtered,....the results will show that, that is, when someone, including HRT, decided to front up,...sometimes they didn't!
Pickles.
NB: We did own a VN Group A road car, one of 302!!,....a pretty special machine!

2 black ones, 2 white ones and 298 " Durif Red" ones and IIRC, some even had numbers above 300

[Pickles2]

2 black ones, 2 white ones and 298 " Durif Red" ones and IIRC, some even had numbers above 300
Spot on, but the "back ones" were originally Durif Red,...they were repainted (non factory)) for the competition.
Pickles.

[Homestar]

There was no "Parity" in Group A.
All a manufacturer had to do in Group A was manufacture a stipulated number of cars that basically constituted the racing version, and you could race it in Group A..
In 1991, we had the VN Commodore. To race in Group A, ya had to manufacture 5000 "Group A" versions,...in Europe that is.
In terms of Aussie, because of our smaller market, that number was reduced to 500 (VK Group A 1986), but for 1991 VN Group A, that number was further reduced to 300, as long as the car wasn't raced outside Aussie,....which it wasn't.
So, obviously it raced against the Nissan & the Sierra, but in no way was their any "parity", as a consequence`of which, in a race in which there were no "incidents", and each car's results were a reflection of its ability, the VN Group A was absolutely slaughtered,....the results will show that, that is, when someone, including HRT, decided to front up,...sometimes they didn't!
Pickles.
NB: We did own a VN Group A road car, one of 302!!,....a pretty special machine!

Nice. :). One of our long time family friends bought a VL group A Walkinshaw commodore brand new. He still has it - only has 25,000KM on it from new. He takes it out once a month for a run and it lives in a garage that is cleaner than my lounge room. :D

It's his Sons inheritance - who is now old enough to drive it and loves it as much as his old man - I think it will be in the family for ever...

I've only ever sat in it, not even got a ride around the block in the last nearly 30 years... :D

[Slunnie]

There was no "Parity" in Group A.
All a manufacturer had to do in Group A was manufacture a stipulated number of cars that basically constituted the racing version, and you could race it in Group A..
In 1991, we had the VN Commodore. To race in Group A, ya had to manufacture 5000 "Group A" versions,...in Europe that is.
In terms of Aussie, because of our smaller market, that number was reduced to 500 (VK Group A 1986), but for 1991 VN Group A, that number was further reduced to 300, as long as the car wasn't raced outside Aussie,....which it wasn't.
So, obviously it raced against the Nissan & the Sierra, but in no way was their any "parity", as a consequence`of which, in a race in which there were no "incidents", and each car's results were a reflection of its ability, the VN Group A was absolutely slaughtered,....the results will show that, that is, when someone, including HRT, decided to front up,...sometimes they didn't!
Pickles.
NB: We did own a VN Group A road car, one of 302!!,....a pretty special machine!
Oh yeah, that was homologation to race. A whole different thing and a few manufacturers slipped through the net there too!

They tried and failed with group A parity, they were all given minimum weights - Fred Gibson was always complaining that they weighed them down so much and eventually at up to 1500kg they kept cracking rims and then he had boost restrictions added - and was still winning! The Sierra was about 1200kg, Commodores about 1250kg but more rubber than the sierra and the BMW somewhere around 925kg minimum.

[Pickles2]

Nice. :). One of our long time family friends bought a VL group A Walkinshaw commodore brand new. He still has it - only has 25,000KM on it from new. He takes it out once a month for a run and it lives in a garage that is cleaner than my lounge room. :D

It's his Sons inheritance - who is now old enough to drive it and loves it as much as his old man - I think it will be in the family for ever...

I've only ever sat in it, not even got a ride around the block in the last nearly 30 years... :D
Being a life member of the HSV owners Club, I know a few people like that, including some that do own the VL Walkinshaw Group A, which is an absolute classsic, in terms of anyone's definition, with respect to Aussie Motorsport.
Better than, "Money in the bank"!
Pickles.