Exhaust Mods: This looks the go

[Baytown]

Seeing as my Evans waterless coolant experiment seems to be a no go, I read about this quality Stainless exhaust system recently in the Oct 16 edition of Land Rover Owner International magazine. I get it electronically and it's brilliant.
Gains aren't great re HP, but torque is worth considering.
I am looking at a new SS exhaust system anyway. Weight saving, and longevity are a bonus.
Any informed comments or experience re this system?
Nene Overland supply it, and I would import accordingly if no Aussie retailer exists. Maybe others would be interested. They do a version for the 90 as well.
Best wishes fellers.
Ken
http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a452/47Indian/IMG_4402.png (http://s1037.photobucket.com/user/47Indian/media/IMG_4402.png.html)
http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a452/47Indian/IMG_4404.png (http://s1037.photobucket.com/user/47Indian/media/IMG_4404.png.html)
http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a452/47Indian/IMG_4405.png (http://s1037.photobucket.com/user/47Indian/media/IMG_4405.png.html)

http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a452/47Indian/IMG_4406.png (http://s1037.photobucket.com/user/47Indian/media/IMG_4406.png.html)
http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a452/47Indian/IMG_4407.png (http://s1037.photobucket.com/user/47Indian/media/IMG_4407.png.html)

[weeds]

What sort of weight saving?? Wouldn't have thought much difference.

I wonder how the stainless will go with cracking from fatigue.

[D90 orkney]

I'd be interested but only if it sounds better. I know how superficial that sounds but I'd love for my 90 to sound more grunty. Quite happy with the power after the tune. Even on 35s it's still very good

[Tombie]

Ken. You'd be better going to a good exhaust shop...

Whilst a 110 will be ever so slightly dearer than I paid...

D90...
New Dump pipe with Decat
Straight through centre box
Mated to factory rear piping and resonator (which is more than ample).

$600 fitted.

Quicker spool up, runs cooler under floor, can't guarantee fuel consumption but seems to be marginally better (not significantly enough to put solely on exhaust).

Weight saving would be 15kg tops...

[D90 orkney]

.

D90...
New Dump pipe with Decat
Straight through centre box
Mated to factory rear piping and resonator (which is more than ample).

$600 fitted.

Quicker spool up, runs cooler under floor, can't guarantee fuel consumption but seems to be marginally better (not significantly enough to put solely on exhaust).

Weight saving would be 15kg tops...

awesome. ive seen a britpart decat, the rest i get done at an exhaust shop?

[Marty90]

Ken. You'd be better going to a good exhaust shop...

Whilst a 110 will be ever so slightly dearer than I paid...

D90...
New Dump pipe with Decat
Straight through centre box
Mated to factory rear piping and resonator (which is more than ample).

$600 fitted.

Quicker spool up, runs cooler under floor, can't guarantee fuel consumption but seems to be marginally better (not significantly enough to put solely on exhaust).

Weight saving would be 15kg tops...
Mike,
Can you clarify,please.The catalytic convertor is removed, along with the main muffler. You're just running the tiny rear muffler? What size pipe did you use?How's it go for noise and rego?
Thanks

[filcar]

awesome. ive seen a britpart decat, the rest i get done at an exhaust shop?
The only decat pipes I've seen are for the 2.4, don't know if they fit on the 2.2. If you are looking for more noise from the exhaust forget it, I have removed the centre muffler so mine now has a cat at the front and the small resonator at the rear and it is no louder than standard at all. The response from various exhaust shops locally that I have spoken to about a decat pipe have varied from very expensive to outright refusal to consider doing it.

[D90 orkney]

The only decat pipes I've seen are for the 2.4, don't know if they fit on the 2.2. If you are looking for more noise from the exhaust forget it, I have removed the centre muffler so mine now has a cat at the front and the small resonator at the rear and it is no louder than standard at all. The response from various exhaust shops locally that I have spoken to about a decat pipe have varied from very expensive to outright refusal to consider doing it.

PM500 | Stainless Steel DeCat Pipe - Defender Puma TDCI - Paddock Spares (http://www.paddockspares.com/pm500-stainless-steel-decat-pipe-defender-puma-tdci.html)

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.firstfour.co.uk/defender-90-110-130-puma-tdci-de-cat-pipe.html%3Famp%3D1?client=safari

I think these work. Yeah I just want a bit more of a throaty grunt. Nothing to do with power or anything else. I've heard you can't do much about it 😟

[Tombie]

Mike,

Can you clarify,please.The catalytic convertor is removed, along with the main muffler. You're just running the tiny rear muffler? What size pipe did you use?How's it go for noise and rego?

Thanks



So the Cat is gone... the original box replaced with a 2.5" straight through box to keep drone at bay.

Then the rearward section is the factory 2.375" pipe and resonator...

Back pipe cut and turned.

There is absolutely no restriction to flow with this set up...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/932.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/933.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/934.jpg

[Tombie]

Throaty "grunt" isn't there to be had... you have to restrict it to make it bark...

At idle there is almost undetectable flow, at full tilt it's not very loud...

Even straight off the dump it was pretty quiet..
https://vimeo.com/198305926

[PAT303]

Ken. You'd be better going to a good exhaust shop...

Whilst a 110 will be ever so slightly dearer than I paid...

D90...
New Dump pipe with Decat
Straight through centre box
Mated to factory rear piping and resonator (which is more than ample).

$600 fitted.

Quicker spool up, runs cooler under floor, can't guarantee fuel consumption but seems to be marginally better (not significantly enough to put solely on exhaust).

Weight saving would be 15kg tops...

My decat pipe was $150 delivered from the UK and took me an hour to fit, the muffler was replaced for $60 drive in drive out,the result is the average range per tank increasing from around 520km's to over 600. Pat

[Baytown]

Thanks for the great comments and pictures fellas.
I already have a decat done, and whilst I've insulated the interior of my truck, and underneath with good results, am still interested in replacing the pipe work from my decat back.
Tombie, your system is pretty much what I'm after, hence my interest in the Vortex muffler box.
I'll ask around up here but really can't be stuffed going from shop to shop, as I need to go into Cairns.
If I get the resonator and use the recommended diameter stainless pipe work, it should be a suitable effective system.
I contacted Davis re their Alive tune spec exhaust system and am awaiting a reply.
15kg weight saving is a positive either way. I wonder how much I'll save by going to Dynema vs wire winch cable which I'm also considering as an aside?
More to follow.
Best wishes fellas.
Ken

[Tombie]

Dyneema will drop winch weight about 8-10kg

[1nando]

I agree with Tombie 100%. As some of you know ive been testing my egts trying to get them as high as possible. It is my opinion that the factory diameter exhaust done the way Tombie explains is perfect if your running a remap and cooler. Some say the stock exhaust is sufficient, my personal real life driving experience tells me otherwise. I've done the mods, listed the results and hopefully thats helpful.

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[D90 orkney]

My decat pipe was $150 delivered from the UK and took me an hour to fit, the muffler was replaced for $60 drive in drive out,the result is the average range per tank increasing from around 520km's to over 600. Pat

Where did you get the decat from Pat?

[Toxic_Avenger]

All I can say is $2K (probably closer to $2200 by the time it's shipped) is a bloody lot of work at a local exhaust shop.

I didn't realise the stock exhuast was that bad.
2.5" is a big bore for a 2.2L low revving Forced Induction donk.

[PAT303]

Where did you get the decat from Pat?

Can't remember,Paddock spares or MM LR,all the UK suppliers have them.Cut the bottom foot and a half of pipe off the cat so you don't need to remove the cross member to fit it.It is an easy hour job to fit doing it that way,you need four bolts,two spanners and a hack saw. Pat

[PAT303]

All I can say is $2K (probably closer to $2200 by the time it's shipped) is a bloody lot of work at a local exhaust shop.

I didn't realise the stock exhuast was that bad.
2.5" is a big bore for a 2.2L low revving Forced Induction donk.

Absolutely,there's no way I'd pay that much for a glorified 2 stroke exhaust. Pat

[Tombie]

Pat / D90 are yours 2.4 or 2.2?

I found plenty of ready made Decat pipes but they had a 4 bolt flange at the turbo..

What flange set up do yours have?

[D90 orkney]

Pat / D90 are yours 2.4 or 2.2?

I found plenty of ready made Decat pipes but they had a 4 bolt flange at the turbo..

What flange set up do yours have?

2.2 mate. I have no idea of flange setup. Haven't had a look

[Toxic_Avenger]

FSM seems to show some kind of V-band setup.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/944.jpg

[Tombie]

That's the one. See my Pics earlier [emoji106]

[Marty90]

Pat / D90 are yours 2.4 or 2.2?

I found plenty of ready made Decat pipes but they had a 4 bolt flange at the turbo..

What flange set up do yours have?

that's all I could find also.

[PAT303]

Pat / D90 are yours 2.4 or 2.2?

I found plenty of ready made Decat pipes but they had a 4 bolt flange at the turbo..

What flange set up do yours have?

Tombie,mines a 2.4 with the 4 bolt flange. Pat

[PAT303]

that's all I could find also.

Email alive tuning,they sell them. Pat

[1nando]

Also i dont have any proof of the comment i am about to make but simply speculative. I think a 3 inch s/s exhaust with a CAT and centre muffler would provide pretty much the same flow you get by basically making the standard exhaust straight through. I wouldn't imagine that theres much in it execpt $$$.
That is purely an assumption made on the fact that my tune for example is around 160-170hp with 440-460nm. If i was making close to 200hp and 500nm + then i would consider a full 3 inch exhaust system. You have to consider that the 2.2 tdci is a LT diesel engine and its showcase strength is its low down torque thanks to the little VGT turbo doing a great job. If your going to spend decent $$$ then consider other things before wasting it on a exhaust system you dont need. Maybe a oil catch can, egt gauge and coolant gauge. These 3 items are cheaper than that exhaust and will provide a lot more benfit for your $$. Just saying, hope that helps. If not.....sorry but i think its good advice



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[1nando]

One other thing; i used a terrafirma straight through centre muffler replacement pipe. This combined with the decat and i replaced the standard rear muffler with a slightly bigger one (got it for free otherwise would have left it) of a sports exhaust for a ranger has cost me around $450.

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[Baytown]

Thanks Nandi.
I appreciate your advice.
I have already bought the Redarc EGT/Boost gauge and Oil/Water temp gauge. Just have to decide where to mount them and then get my mechanic in Cairns to do the fitting job for me.
I'm closely following the Oil catch can thread, and will probably fit a Proventil 200 series catch can.
The straight through pipe option for the centre muffler sounds good, and a cost saving. Would certainly help with temps on the cabin as well. I do have a nice exhaust shop fella here in Innisfail who does basic welding and fabrication jobs for me on the 110. I don't think he has a mandrel, but I'll drop in and see him on Monday to discuss my needs and the brains trusts' advice and suggestions, and see if he can do the work in stainless for me.
More to follow.
Thanks again fellas.
Ken

[Beery]

So the Cat is gone... the original box replaced with a 2.5" straight through box to keep drone at bay.

Then the rearward section is the factory 2.375" pipe and resonator...

Back pipe cut and turned.

There is absolutely no restriction to flow with this set up...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/932.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/933.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/934.jpg

I like that L bracket tab welded on to your turbo pipe. Is that so the original heat shield can go back on?

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[Tombie]

Sure is.

[PAT303]

I'd refit the heat shield Tombie,I wasn't going to but the A/C pipes run right past the turbo. Pat

[Tombie]

I did. Hence the bracket. Looks stock from above!

[Baytown]

And then to confuse things more, the respected Berimah Diesel use a 3 inch system with their Puma system, complete with their Vortex Box.
$1570 or so.
http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a452/47Indian/IMG_4427.png (http://s1037.photobucket.com/user/47Indian/media/IMG_4427.png.html)

[Tombie]

That's a TaipanXP exhaust - available from the maker in Queensland...

I had the Vortex exhaust on my TD5. Had a nice note and went well.. did it do anything else above a quality flowing 2.5"? I doubt it, but I was testing exhausts for performance gains so fitted it..

Next vehicle/engine went with a very clean flowing 2.5" and had no problems at all and EGTs seemed similar.

You won't ring any more out of a 3" that's for sure.

[Baytown]

Thanks for the QLD manufacturer tip Tombie. It read like they had produced the system vs just retailing it.
I'm sold on the 2 1/2 inch system benefits for our trucks vs 3 inch after market pipes which are probably only 3 inch as they all fit these to other makes.
Ken

[twr7cx]

You won't ring any more out of a 3" that's for sure.

Not without a much bigger turbo at least! (e.g. in the case of a TD5 motor the Turbo Tecnics Stage 3 Hybrid S220 VGT requires 3" but your talking some extreme modification work then)

[Baytown]

So effectively fellas.
With my mods which consist of:
Alive stage one tune
Raised air intake
Decat
EGR blank and switched off at the ECU
Larger intercooler and radiator

Would I LOOSE anything by fitting an after market 3 inch system over a 2 1/2 inch system.
I am quite interested in the Viper XP system from the manufacturer for their performance claims ( which I realise would only be validated by before and after Dino runs and actual driving experience.

Can of worms I know.

Ken

[Tombie]

I doubt you would lose. [emoji41] From all reports they are a well made system...

If it's what you want give it a go, the vortex mufflers do have a unique note...

Check if they can bolt up ok, the tend to have Cats in their systems!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/896.jpg

You would have to see if they will fit one without it if you don't want it...

[Marty90]

I had a system made up by them about 10 years ago for an RA Rodeo I had for work.It was fitted with gas so the exhaust was custom.Drove up overnight from Sydney,had it made up while I waited and drove back same day. I didn't do any measurements regarding egt's or dyno measurements but the truck definitely went better on the run home. Sound wasn't over the top but sweet! Workmanship is excellent.Mine was in the mild steel and my nephew now has the truck with the same exhaust system. I think you'd have a problem,though, convincing them to build a system without a cat. Let us know how you go. And looking at their website I don't think they have a system for a 90 Puma,but I'm sure they'll make one up. Organise a group buy.If you dare!

[Baytown]

Thanks Marty and Tombie.
It's good to get a thumbs up re this system. I know I won't get tyre shredding results from it, but I just want to fit the best I can to my truck. If I can lower EGT by any I'll be happy. Sweeter note would be nice, any weight saving sorely welcomed, and of course, a little gain in HP and torque, responsiveness bragging rights.
I'm waiting for Vortex QLD to reply to my query.
Best wishes fellas.
Ken
.

[Baytown]

Wow, Bruce Davis got back to me re the Taipan exhaust system and suggested that it wouldn't be worth the money, vs any benefit as a 3 inch system on the 2.2. He has recommended their oil cooler/new spin on cartridge system which carries 1 litre more oil than stock.
He has run the figures re temp on the 2.2 with this system and where without, temp was around 108 deg, fitted, oil and water temps both dropped to low 90s.
Approx $1500 fitted, so this may be of benifit down the road.
He could have told me anything and sold me the exhaust system, but he didn't, to his credit.
An ethical retailer!
Good on him.
Ken

[Beery]

$1500 is ridiculous for an oil cooler which, again, your engine already has.
Get the coolant running at lower temps and your oil and fuel temperatures will follow.

But, as you say, at least he's honest enough to tell you that a 2.2 diesel doesnt need a 3" exhaust. Tuned up 4.2 1HD Toyotas are a different story

[ramblingboy42]

What sort of weight saving?? Wouldn't have thought much difference.

I wonder how the stainless will go with cracking from fatigue.

D2's were stainless. No cracking.

[ramblingboy42]

Just a point of interest... my 2.2 ranger is full flow through...no muffler ... and it is not noisy....I don't see why a defender would be any different......save a lot of money.

[Marty90]

$1500 is ridiculous for an oil cooler which, again, your engine already has.
Get the coolant running at lower temps and your oil and fuel temperatures will follow.

But, as you say, at least he's honest enough to tell you that a 2.2 diesel doesnt need a 3" exhaust. Tuned up 4.2 1HD Toyotas are a different story

That's what you're looking at.
Buy 2.4Lt & 2.2Lt Engine Oil Cooler & Spin-on Oil Filter Conversion Kit (http://davisperformance.com.au/engine/2.4lt-engine-oil-cooler-and-spin-on-oil-filter-conversion-kit.html)
Where is the original oil cooler?

[1nando]

Wow, Bruce Davis got back to me re the Taipan exhaust system and suggested that it wouldn't be worth the money, vs any benefit as a 3 inch system on the 2.2. He has recommended their oil cooler/new spin on cartridge system which carries 1 litre more oil than stock.
He has run the figures re temp on the 2.2 with this system and where without, temp was around 108 deg, fitted, oil and water temps both dropped to low 90s.
Approx $1500 fitted, so this may be of benifit down the road.
He could have told me anything and sold me the exhaust system, but he didn't, to his credit.
An ethical retailer!
Good on him.
Ken

With my mods i run coolant temp of 88-91 averageand oil temp of around 102 according to ultra gauge. I also run low egts according to my probe installed pre turbo.

Beery is 100% spot on!

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[Beery]

That's what you're looking at.
Buy 2.4Lt & 2.2Lt Engine Oil Cooler & Spin-on Oil Filter Conversion Kit (http://davisperformance.com.au/engine/2.4lt-engine-oil-cooler-and-spin-on-oil-filter-conversion-kit.html)
Where is the original oil cooler?


If you zoom in on that picture, you'll see a plate type heat exchanger on top of the oil filter housing and the coolant hose spigots.

[Beery]

I can't see an 'oilstat' (thermostat) anywhere amongst those components. Uncontrolled oil flow through the cooler would delay oil warmup by a lot, not such a problem in constantly warm climates. Cold weather could cause problems though.

The OEM built in water cooled oil cooler is controlled by its own seperate thermostat.



http://davisperformance.com.au/images/thumbnails/765/765/detailed/1/INTERCOOLER_INTRUCTIONS_DIAGRAM.jpg't=1464152522


From the workshop manual:

"Oil Filter and Cooler Assembly
The oil filter and cooler assembly is attached to the LH side of the skirt stiffener and consists a full-flow, disposable
canister-type filter and an oil cooler attached to a casting. The casting aligns with the oil galleries in the skirt stiffener and
is sealed by a gasket.
The engine cooling system cools the oil in the oil cooler and is regulated by means of a separate thermostat, which
prevents the flow of coolant through the oil cooler when the engine is cold, ensuring the engine oil warms up quickly. The
thermostat opens at 75?2 ?C (167?35 ?F).
Oil to and from the oil cooler passes through galleries in the skirt stiffener. Hoses from the engine cooling system are
connected to 2 pipes on the oil cooler for the supply and return of coolant."

[Tombie]

Beery, well presented mate!!!

It's amazing how many think they can out engineer a problem which doesn't exist..

An example - Kens rig has done 100k without a problem, TDCis here used for hauling goods rain hail or shine daily have done 350k plus without issue and they are loaded all day, everyday doing the run from Adelaide to Port Lincoln and back in all temperatures.

[1nando]

Beery, well presented mate!!!

It's amazing how many think they can out engineer a problem which doesn't exist..

An example - Kens rig has done 100k without a problem, TDCis here used for hauling goods rain hail or shine daily have done 350k plus without issue and they are loaded all day, everyday doing the run from Adelaide to Port Lincoln and back in all temperatures.

Come on Tombie you can't make statememts like that on Aulro. Your making to much sense.........on here you need to change everthing in a defender tdci from diff to diff and then all the wiring and finally finish off with a "back to the future" style dolorean drive into the past and drive a 200tdi to be able to do those sort of kms!


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[twr7cx]

Would I LOOSE anything by fitting an after market 3 inch system over a 2 1/2 inch system.

No, you won't loose anything other than more weight vs that of an equivalent small 2.5" system, I doubt you'd gain anything either though.

[alittlebitconcerned]

[QUOTE=Beery;2629164]$1500 is ridiculous for an oil cooler which, again, your engine already has.
Get the coolant running at lower temps and your oil and fuel temperatures will follow.


How do I get the coolant to run at lower temps? Can't find any info

[ninetubes]

local exhaust guy replaced the enormous LR muffler with a much much smaller high-flow glass packed one that sits much higher up out of the way. the resonator at the back was removed too.

From the back of the cat to the tailpipe was $460 supplied and fitted.

With BAS 170 tune and intercooler it goes well and is no noisier inside the car with is important to me down the highway. Not that you can hear much over mud tyres anyway but their days are numbered!