Perentie front diff failure - help!

[dranoweb]

So on my way back from fire tower duty today, I was accelerating out of a roundabout and suddenly and abruptly lost drive.

The sensation was of a failing clutch.
No loud crunching or rattling sounds.

It failed quite luckily right out front of my favorite mechanic who quickly diagnosed front diff failure.

in on-road setting with center diff unlocked, front shaft spins, rear does not.

Drove it home with center diff locked (approx 3km) glad it failed then and not in the remote area I work.

With center diff lock engaged both shafts spin as you would expect.

Have not yet had timd to drain the diff and pull the cover off to inspect.

I'm seeking advice as to likely causes and what I'm looking for with cover off.

I replaced front U joints a while back after the one closest the dif ran dry and failed.

Mechanic seems to think i should be driving the rear not the front and says "something is ass about".

I'm leaning to the thinking that the british just design things ass about...

Any advice would be greatfully received...

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[rangieman]

Im guessing you have broken a front axle;)
Now the cdl is a diff and if you have even drive front and back when it is unlocked that is what you have until you loose traction or break something .
In this case all power goes to the axle that has the least traction either on or off road conditions or you have broken something then when you engage cdl both front and rear axles will be driven;)

[rar110]

It could be a stripped drive flange. They are a lot cheaper. A sacrificial part.

[Blknight.aus]

RHF half shaft.

[Summiitt]

As rar110 said, Pull the dust caps off the front drive flanges and engage first gear, diff unlocked and see if the shaft is spinning in the flange, we have done 4 on our 6x6 so far..

[SSmith]

No inspection cover on front diff, only rear.

You have to strip all of the above items before the diff will come out anyway, start on the flanges and work your way in.

If i were a betting man i'd put my money on Blknight's suggestion

Driveline is behaving exactly as it should be with such a failure, trusty mechanic just having a bad day I suspect.

[rar110]

Your mechanic was having a bad day, thinking it was ass about. The open centre diff means drive will go to the axle offering the least resistance ie the axle with something broken and spinning freely.

[dranoweb]

Thanks for the replies guys - I had been locked out of my account due to some password reset issues.

what I have done so far:


pulled the filler plug from the font diff and stuffed an inspection camera in there.

looks shiny and clean, go bits of gears.

with CDL disengaged and 4 wheels on the ground, I can freely turn the drive shaft.

I feel resistance every 180 degrees of turn.

I can see the crown gear and spider gears turning.
oil looks good colour.


with passengers side wheel jacked up, and rotating, the crown gear moves.
with drivers side up and rotating, crown gear does not move.

A slight wriggle can be seen every 180 degrees.

So thinking axle issues.

I also put it in gear, and observed the splines on the passengers side drive flange, they don't appear to be turning independently of the wheel, so I think I can rule out stripped drive flange.

Next question - where do I find a replacement?
and how can I determine what side of the CV it is?

I found something on ebay, but lost the link.

[rar110]

More likely to be half shaft than CV as indicated by Dave.

[SSmith]

Inspection camera, good idea.

Probably inboard of the CV, outboard shaft is usually part of the CV.

Can your camera see up the axle tube from the diff housing? spin the wheel and you may be able to see where the breakage is.

[dranoweb]

No, unfortunately it's a relatively thick shaft on the camera, wasn't able to thread it through the final drive housing.

I'm planning to order parts today.

I'm guessing I'm going to need a new CV assembly with axles.
sound's like it's the easiest way to go.

so can anyone help me out here?, I'm pretty sure I need the 24 spline axles for the 3.54:1 salisbury diffs?

[dranoweb]

Found this on ebay - its from a 2010 defender - is this a suitable fit?

Cv Joint Axle Rh Landrover Defender 2010 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Cv-Joint-Axle-Rh-Landrover-Defender-2010-/262629115963?hash=item3d25ea483b:g:bboAAOSwPe1UDra 0)

I note that it has the ABS notches but pretty sure that's not going to prevent it from working.

[BadCo.]

Found this on ebay - its from a 2010 defender - is this a suitable fit?

Cv Joint Axle Rh Landrover Defender 2010 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Cv-Joint-Axle-Rh-Landrover-Defender-2010-/262629115963?hash=item3d25ea483b:g:bboAAOSwPe1UDra 0)

I note that it has the ABS notches but pretty sure that's not going to prevent it from working.

No.

You need AEU2522. Might as well spend the money and upgrade to 24 spline diff and HD axles.

Might want to pull down the drivers side hub and find what you broke, then shopping time! :D

[BadCo.]

No, unfortunately it's a relatively thick shaft on the camera, wasn't able to thread it through the final drive housing.

I'm planning to order parts today.

I'm guessing I'm going to need a new CV assembly with axles.
sound's like it's the easiest way to go.

so can anyone help me out here?, I'm pretty sure I need the 24 spline axles for the 3.54:1 salisbury diffs?

Salisbury is in the rear, rover 10 spline in the front.

[dranoweb]

I've been in touch with KLR automotive who get to deal with many of the perenties that come out of minto, and they tell me its most likely a 10 spline inner, 24 outer.

Will be removing tomorrow and inspecting. Got a big magnet on a stick today.

One shot grease seems to be hard to find but I'll order some online when I order axles.

[Bearman]

As Dave indicated it's almost certain its the RH inner axle shaft. If will be 10 spline inner. RFSV has the fine spline axles. Most likely the CV is still good. Split the swivel housings from the diff housing and see what you find.

[Blknight.aus]

to inspect the CV without pulling it apart

remove the big filler plug and steer to lock that makes the filler plug go past the end of the swivel ball.

look in through there and turn the prop shaft if you see the socket of the CV turn then its broken the stub.

if it doesnt its the half shaft.

you may need to pull the steering stop and the tierod to do it.

[dranoweb]

Well, it's most certainly a broken half shaft.

Cv looks and feels fine.

Next issue - broken half seems to be just behind a bearing/oil seal mid way down.

Magnet-on-a- stick failed me as predicted, other tips of using 8 gauge wire loop are also not an option.

At this stage I'm taking a break before I resign to removing the final drive.

There are some metal fragments in there I probably need to flush anyway.

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[Bearman]

That's where they usually break and sometimes the bit of the axle spline stuck in the diff side gear is sticking out a little and fouls on the housing when you try to pull the centre. Sometimes you can push it in a bit (if the splines aren't twisted) otherwise it's advisable to insert a small diameter rod from the passenger side and knock the broken bit out.

[dranoweb]

Isn't there a rod between two of the spider gears, perpendicular to the axle that wpuld prevent that?

[Blknight.aus]

the proper tool is kind of like a tubular tuning fork and about 4 foot long.

the way I normally do it is to curve a piece of 6mm rod and insert it through either the drain or fill plug on the diff push it to the center of the axle inside the diff housing and then tap it with a hammer.

with the bent rod resting on the center pin of the diff it will push on the remains of your half shaft and once its popped it free of the splines of the spider gear it will come out easily.

IF the alxe (and this is a general tip not specific to your case) has snapped just out side of the spider gear be carefull doing this as the bit thats left may wind up stuck between the bearing housing and the diff casing making removing the diff center swearword inducing.

in your case if the curved rod trick didnt work my next step would be to lock the CDL center pop and drill the center of the shaft tap it and then wind in a bolt and use the bolt to pull it out.

[dranoweb]

Drilling and tapping are not really an option due to the distance in. I'll make some measurements tomorrow and try to get a better idea.

[Blknight.aus]

yeah it is.

undo the 7 bi hex bolts to remove the swivel housing (replace the gasket if gasket fitted with goop or loctite 515)

use a 30cm 6mm drill in almost any drill or if you dont have a 30cmlong drill bit a standard long 6mm bit (which is about 10-15cm) in the chuck of a normal 6mm drive die grinder will work perfectly.

then using a 1/4 ins extension bar (or female 1/4 to male 1/2 adaptor and a half inch extension bar) use a taper tap in the 1/4 female extension to drive the tao and a shifter or tap handle on the 1/4 male of the extension bar to turn the tap. Push and turn then use a length of 8mm threaded rod, 8mm bolt or in some cases just wrapping some builders string onto the top 3 turns of the tap and pulling with the tap in place will pull it out.

If you're really really lucky (and its happened to me exactly once ) it may even come out on the end of the drill bit when you pull the drill out.

[bee utey]

Drill bit extensions are easy to make. Just get a suitable length of rod, say 3/8", drill a hole with the drill bit in one end. Then grind 3 equal flats onto the drill's shank, insert the shank into the rod and hammer or punch the rod down into the flats. About 20 minutes work and it'll make an excellent addition to your tool box.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118982&stc=1&d=1485421303

Tap extenders can be made in the same way if you don't have any 1/4" drive extensions.

[dranoweb]

I can see you guys have done tjis before...

I have to work for the next 8 days, so this might get put on hold for a bit - as much as I need it running

[Blknight.aus]

you can also get some drills with a hex head drive on them just fit a suitable size socket to a 1/4 inch extension bar and grab that in a normal (13mm) drill chuck.

[dranoweb]

Just a tip - I learnt this the hard way tonight - wear gloves with one shot grease. It totally passed me by that it's essentially molly grease.

Turns out I'm a bit sensetive to it, and I used porus gloves, and had it on my arms in large amounts all day.

Now feeling extremely ordinary.

[dranoweb]

Ok so bit of an update:

Procured axles - from ebay from an individual who was fitting Hi-tough axles - something I'll do in the future.

Got a full set, including drive flanges, cir-clips and caps - I have spares now.

Axle has busted about 3mm into the inner splines, and the broken part is wedged into the spider gear, no man or magnet is going to get it out the easy way.

10 spline inner, 23 outer FYI.

Stopped at my local land rover dealer and ordered new gaskets and seals, along with the oil seal washer - that I discovered was bent.

The part numbers in the service manual were still good amazingly.

I have elected to let my mechanic do this job, in part due to my unpleasant experience with one-shot grease, and the risk involved in performing this repair without the correct equipment.

I'm going to put the hub back on, minus axle and cv, and flat-bed it a couple of km across town to the mechanic.

He has been with me since the purchase and is experienced with rovers.
Work is near- 7 days a week for me, so I'll make use of the extra money to pay him instead.

[dranoweb]

So $1300 later - my mechanic did the tedious work for me this time.

There was a good reason why the axle was not forthcoming with a magnet...

Looks like I'll be after some hi-tough axles in the near future.

119812

[Bearman]

Yep, that looks familiar.