Temperamental 2 stroke engines.

[B.S.F.]

I've been reading Reader Reviews about gadgets with 2-stroke engines in the 25-50 cc range. About 90% of all complaints are about starting.
I've had a very cheap chainsaw for 10 years. No problems starting it.I had a brush cutter for 19 years, again no problems. Recently I bought a new 50cc 18"chainsaw made in Germany which is very hard to start.
Why are 2-stoke engines so temperamental and hard to tune?
.W.

[gromit]

Reading through the manuals of a couple of recent purchases (yes, I sometimes read the manuals) it mentions fuel must be less than a couple of months old.

I've had BSA Bantams, Lambrettas, Villiers engined bikes & mowers plus all the usual chainsaws, whippersnippers etc. also my Mum had a Wartburg (2-stroke car) for a while. Most have been reliable starting except one highly tuned Lambretta but I was running a 32mm Amal carby. It couldn't suck in enough fuel to initially fire up but lay it on it's side, tip neat petrol down the inlet and away she went.
A hedge trimmer purchased a couple of years ago stated the fuel must be less than 2/3 months old and if not being used for some time empty the tank and run it till most of the fuel in the carby has been used.



Most 2-stroke small motors are often used infrequently so modern fuel may partly be the problem or maybe the motors have got smaller so they are highly tuned to get the power output needed ? I read somewhere that you must not use ethanol blend fuels in fire fighting pumps. Only called on to work once in a blue moon and the bloody thing won't start due to stale fuel or phase separation.

Also the coil packs can be an issue. I have a chainsaw (Homelite) that I've used for about 15 years, starts OK from cold but hot it now will not start so I have to replace the coilpack because on checking there was no spark. Let it cool down and it starts OK.
There was a 4-stroke Chinese mower on the market where the coil packs failed after a very short time. I was given one and its a fantastic copy of a Honda OHV motor starts, runs for a while then stops. Like my chainsaw it will only re-start when cold again.


Colin

[mr_squiggle]

Most of the time the "hard to start" bit comes from 2 areas. Either the fuel isn't available or some bugger has messed with the tune. 99% of these small motors are correctly tuned out of the box.
Regardless of whether or not there is a priming bulb on the carby (which you should always use on a first start of the day) the start procedure is the same for a cold/cool start.
Close the choke. Keeping away from the throttle (i.e. throttle on an idle setting) pull the starter rapidly until the engine fires and then dies. It might take 10 or so pulls to get it to fire. Open the choke (on some engines this will require a half way setting). Pull the starter again until the engine fires. Use the throttle gently to warm the engine up.
The reason they are hard to tune is that the carby is a really basic and the low & high speed circuits interact with each other slightly. The process is to tune the high speed first on wide open throttle, then tune the idle as one affects the other. Idle speed is set last.

[DoubleChevron]

If I want to spend an hour screaming abuse at somethign .... I'll pull out the 2 stroke brush cutter... Man that POS can be a bastard to start.

Now my ancient super 600 Victa that has probably done a million hours work (even the tyres are worn out on it). Will always start quite easily. That thing is the most brilliant grass cutting bit of junk I've ever used. You just can't kill those victa 2strokes (and gee's they have some grunt).

seeya,
Shane L.

[bee utey]

The best garden tool I ever purchased is the Honda 4 stroke powered brush cutter. Fill it with fuel, prime the carby, fast idle on, choke on and pull the starter cord once. It will stay running until I either run out of grass, cutting string or fuel. Bloody magic device, clean, quiet and economical. It gets the fuel tank drained at the end of the job and the carby run dry. I've never had a problem with year old fuel as it always stays in a sealed container. The fire pump is no different, Honda key start always starts on the first attempt no matter how long since the last start. The carby gets run dry by turning the fuel tap off, without fail.

[B.S.F.]

I was hoping we could keep "Makes" out of this.
.W.

[rrturboD]

My local mower/chainsaw repairer advised me that starting process was basically the same for all 2 strokes ... fresh fuel, prime if necessary, full choke, pull starter a couple of times till it fires. Push choke in, throttle lock on chainsaw, pull again and should start ... if fails try squirt of aerostart as carby probably gummed up (biggest starting issue) and needs good suction from engine to get fuel flowing, BUT do not use choke as will flood, requiring plug out, drain fuel from chamber and start process again.
Strategy has works with every 2 stroke I've got and tried.

[mr_squiggle]

The cheaper ones all have a variation/copy of a Walbro carby. How genuine the copy is determines how well they work.

[gromit]

Picked up an old Ryobi whippersnipper from the local tip shop for $10 complete with 1/2 a tank of fuel. Got it home and it started OK but would only run on choke.
Quick Google and the answer was the running jet blocked. Pulled down this tiny carby, blew it out carefully with compressed air put it back together and it runs OK now.

Had a much older McCulloch (re-badged Shindaiwa) play up. Carby off and cleaned it out and she starts & run well again.

Recently got another old Ryobi (dark green) from the local trash & treasure market for $5. Replaced the fuel line and topped it up with fresh 2-stroke mix and after a few pulls it started and ran OK.

So it's coming down to problems being stale fuel and carby issues, some just being from dirty fuel.

Oh and yes, there are a few whippersnippers in my back shed......


Colin

[Don 130]

I'm told by the old blokes at my mower shop that modern fuel goes stale very quickly, but that fuel conditioner will alleviate the problem. As I was being lectured on this topic, the bloke from a very large tree lopping company came up behind me. He said that the use of the fuel conditioner had reduced their small engine maintenance to less than half what it had previously been. I now use it in fuel for all my small petrol engines, 2 and 4 stroke, and have no starting problems. Even my brush cutter starts usually with 1 or 2 pulls, and I bought that in 1986.
Don.

[gromit]

I'm told by the old blokes at my mower shop that modern fuel goes stale very quickly, but that fuel conditioner will alleviate the problem. As I was being lectured on this topic, the bloke from a very large tree lopping company came up behind me. He said that the use of the fuel conditioner had reduced their small engine maintenance to less than half what it had previously been. I now use it in fuel for all my small petrol engines, 2 and 4 stroke, and have no starting problems. Even my brush cutter starts usually with 1 or 2 pulls, and I bought that in 1986.
Don.

Don,
Seems to be a problem with any petrol powered item that is used infrequently. Makes you wonder what the difference is with petrol nowadays.

The stabilisers seem to work for up to 1 year. Anything longer and you need to drain the fuel and re-fill.
I've also had problems with old fuel turning into varnish. Fuel pumps on two of my Land Rovers kept stopping, the varnish was sealing the valves shut !


Colin

[JDNSW]

The problems with modern petrol seems to be twofold. Firstly, virtually the entire petroleum industry seems to be infected with bacteria that will grow in fuels (if water is present). This bacteria was probably absent historically over most of the petroleum infrastructure, but once infected is almost impossible to remove. I suspect it was largely controlled by the bactericidal effect of lead in petrol, so it was not a problem.

The problem is exacerbated by the presence of ethanol in a lot of petrol today (small quantities do not have to be placarded). Ethanol is hygroscopic, so even small quantities guarantees that there is some water in the petrol.

John

[mick88]

Two stroke fuel needs to be mixed at the correct ratio as stated by the manufacturer. So many people don't mix it correctly, then when the chainsaw or whatever they are using doesn't run properly, pull the revs, or is hard to start, they go for the screw driver and start playing with the mixture screws. Ninety nine point nine per cent of the time when these engines won't start or don't properly, it's fuel related, stale fuel or incorrectly mixed. Cheers, Mick.

[hpal]

Never use ethanol fuel in small engines which may sit for a bit, it will soon turn to jelly and block everything up requiring a strip down. I don't use the stuff in any engine whatsoever, not worth it.

[JDNSW]

Ethanol may be present in any petrol sold in NSW - it only has to be labelled if 10% or more. Even small percentages will absorb water! Bigger problem in coastal climates, not as serious inland.

John

[Don 130]

A couple of other things that might help. Keep fuel tanks filled to the brim to reduce the possibility of humid air in the tank condensing water into the fuel, or has already been suggested, empty tank and run engine dry if it's not going to be used for a while. Some of our pumps only get used twice a year. Spring and autumn. That is considered too long to leave the carbys empty as the seals and gaskets can dry out and deform if dry for too long.
Don.

[350RRC]

Hi All,

The hot 2 stroke non start was covered in another thread about 6 months ago....... fuel probs with diaphragm carbs supposedly, but I've had the same prob with slide carbs going back 40 years. The hot thing has not been answered as far as I'm concerned.

Not all the small two strokes I have (<100cc) do it.

Yesterday I cracked it with the largish Stihl I have, heaps of compression, cold start, 10 pulls and I have a bone broken in the pulling hand. No nothing. Not happy, maybe even swearing.

Got the can of aerostart out of the Howard rotary hoe toolbox, little squirt on the air filter, instant go. That will be standard from now on.

The other saw I use for less than 4" stuff and one handed overhead, a $100 Ross 16" will start from cold after no more than 3 pulls but will never start from hot. Maybe aero is the inverse answer for that.

I have a cheapo brushcutter that will start hot or cold with old or new fuel and it has probably done at least 200 hrs of serious slog. Go figure!

cheers, DL

[whitey56]

I was talking to our ex local mower shop owner [now the local glass shop owner and making more $] recently he said the carby diaphrams go hard, they may look ok but they are not working 100% which is most of the trouble with 2 strokes engines.

[PhilipA]

My 20plus year old McCulloch whipper snipper has always started first go and has never even had a new spark plug.

The shield between exhaust and tank recently vibrated off and the fuel lines rotted once and I had to replace them for $5.
The secret?
When finished ,empty the machine and restart with the fuel in the carby and run until it stops.
Regards Philip A

[Homestar]

My 20plus year old McCulloch whipper snipper has always started first go and has never even had a new spark plug.

The shield between exhaust and tank recently vibrated off and the fuel lines rotted once and I had to replace them for $5.
The secret?
When finished ,empty the machine and restart with the fuel in the carby and run until it stops.
Regards Philip A

That was the trick I was told by a mate that owned a small engine shop for 30 years. Works a treat. :)

[loanrangie]

That was the trick I was told by a mate that owned a small engine shop for 30 years. Works a treat. :)

I usually do this also but wouldn't it also allow the rubber diaphragms etc to dry out and crack ?

[bee utey]

I usually do this also but wouldn't it also allow the rubber diaphragms etc to dry out and crack ?

Not really, the plasticisers in the rubber are slowly dissolved by contact with the fuel. Reducing that contact time to only the actual operating time will lengthen their life considerably. Storing the engine in a cool dry place helps too. [bigsmile1]

[101RRS]

A squirt of "Start Ya Bastard" always starts my 2 strokes - even if the fuel is old. Starts my 101 on cold mornings too - through a specially installed port from the drivers seat straight into the inlet manifold.

[350RRC]

......................Yesterday I cracked it with the largish Stihl I have, heaps of compression, cold start, 10 pulls and I have a bone broken in the pulling hand. No nothing. Not happy, maybe even swearing.

Got the can of aerostart out of the Howard rotary hoe toolbox, little squirt on the air filter, instant go. That will be standard from now on.

The other saw I use for less than 4" stuff and one handed overhead, a $100 Ross 16" will start from cold after no more than 3 pulls but will never start from hot. Maybe aero is the inverse answer for that.

I have a cheapo brushcutter that will start hot or cold with old or new fuel and it has probably done at least 200 hrs of serious slog. Go figure!

cheers, DL

Have now found that the Ross saw gets the tiniest whisker across the plug electrodes when it is shut down hot and hence won't restart. Doesn't get this if it runs out of fuel; it can be restarted warm after a refuel.

Am using the recommended 25:1 fuel to oil mix, but starting to think that may be causing the plug prob.

DL

[mr_squiggle]

Have now found that the Ross saw gets the tiniest whisker across the plug electrodes when it is shut down hot and hence won't restart. Doesn't get this if it runs out of fuel; it can be restarted warm after a refuel.

Am using the recommended 25:1 fuel to oil mix, but starting to think that may be causing the plug prob.

DL

If you're getting the plug whiskers then it's either too much oil or the wrong type or the plug is too cold or it's too rich. If it starts reliably when warm the plug heat range is probably ok. Check the plug gap is in the right range & then try leaning out the oil to 30:1 (assuming that the oil is capable of that i.e. Read the packet).
Have you checked the air filter? If it's dirty it will create all of your symptoms!

[DiscoMick]

This is one of the reasons I bought an electric lawn mower. It was a great move.
My Stihl chain saw refused to start recently, despite changing the fuel, so it may be next to be replaced.

[mr_squiggle]

This is one of the reasons I bought an electric lawn mower. It was a great move.
My Stihl chain saw refused to start recently, despite changing the fuel, so it may be next to be replaced.

Hmm, sounds like a solid plan. What happens when your Disco doesn't start one day? Will you buy a Prius? Just sayin..........

[Eevo]

This is one of the reasons I bought an electric lawn mower. It was a great move.
My Stihl chain saw refused to start recently, despite changing the fuel, so it may be next to be replaced.

ive got a battery lawnmower. great thing!

[Pedro_The_Swift]

A squirt of "Start Ya Bastard" always starts my 2 strokes - even if the fuel is old. Starts my 101 on cold mornings too - through a specially installed port from the drivers seat straight into the inlet manifold.

This conjures up all sorts of backfire images!! [bigrolf]

[Judo]

I've found if I have fresh fuel most problems mysteriously disappear. Even a few weeks can make a difference. A few months old and it's very difficult to start my whipper snipper.

[rover-56]

No one has mentioned a common problem I have - mud wasp eggs in the muffler outlet.
Still catches me if I forget the rubber bung.
Terry

[Don 130]

No one has mentioned a common problem I have - mud wasp eggs in the muffler outlet.
Still catches me if I forget the rubber bung.
Terry

I wired a little piece of metal flyscreen over the exhaust. That stopped the buggers.

Don.

[460cixy]

Air leaks hard fuel lines hard diaphragms especially fuel pump side of carb low carb pop pressure hard or leaking pulse tubes blocked fuel filters and tank breathers InCorrectly set low speed mixture all common issues for hard to start two stoke engines I make great money as a side line fixing these problems for frustrated punters

[B.S.F.]

I've ben using a Victa "toe cutter" mower for 35 years, a Stihl brush cutter for 19 years, a Makita chain saw for 2 years, they all run on a 25:1 mixture as per manual. An Aldi chainsaw that lasted for 7 years till the plastic fuel and oil tubes became detached also ran on a 25:1 mixture. Recently I bought 2 new Aldi chain saws which require a mixture of 40:1. Why ? What would be different on the new engines? .W.
.

[JDNSW]

Not necessarily new - while my chainsaw runs on 25:1, a small Honda generator I have had since the mid nineties runs on 80:1.

The main reason manufacturers reduce the amount of oil is to reduce the smoke in the exhaust. To some extent this is due to legislation in some places for some uses, but I suspect that it is mostly an attempt by manufacturers to preempt any attempts to ban their engines.

As to the ratio actually required, this will be determined mainly by the detail design of the engine, especially the choice of materials. I would assume that all very high ratios would need to use all roller or ball bearings, for a start.

[460cixy]

I've ben using a Victa "toe cutter" mower for 35 years, a Stihl brush cutter for 19 years, a Makita chain saw for 2 years, they all run on a 25:1 mixture as per manual. An Aldi chainsaw that lasted for 7 years till the plastic fuel and oil tubes became detached also ran on a 25:1 mixture. Recently I bought 2 new Aldi chain saws which require a mixture of 40:1. Why ? What would be different on the new engines? .W.
.

Absolutely nothing.

But on the topic of temperamental two strokes. I've been building a husky rancher 50 to run methanol with 5%nitro now that's temperamental

[350RRC]

Absolutely nothing.

But on the topic of temperamental two strokes. I've been building a husky rancher 50 to run methanol with 5%nitro now that's temperamental

You might also need a bit of oil in that mix. [biggrin] [biggrin]

DL

[Tins]

I was hoping we could keep "Makes" out of this.
.W.

On this forum? RU serious??

[Tins]

I have two Stihl 08S chainsaws from the 70s, a Stihl FS85 brushcutter, a Stihl backpack blower, 3 Honda engined lawn mowers that are all 20 years or more old, one old Victa 18 toecutter, and one Chinese pole saw less than one year old. I would put $1000 on which one of these WON'T start if I go out there tomorrow. I'd even bet that the RR Classic that sulks down the back will start before that @$&* pole saw does, although the Victa might prefer it if I pulled the spark plug out. That's it, no need to clean it or anything, just remove and replace it. Those old things will run with almost zero compression. Just make the fuel around 17.5:1 to pad out the rings.

I have few issues with old fuel. All the Stihl stuff runs 50:1, using synth oil. I always used to believe the 'old fuel' thing, but I'm not sure these days. Modern fuels are pretty sophisticated. That said, I'll drain the tanks if I'm laying them up for the winter, save the ride on. Can't tip it up. You'd think they'd put a tap in, wouldn't you?

[460cixy]

You might also need a bit of oil in that mix. [biggrin] [biggrin]

DL

It's 25:1 caster oil and methanol before the nitro is added

[JDNSW]

The only time my Husqvarna chainsaw has failed to start easily in the last twenty years was when the throttle plate came off. I wish my four stroke ride on lawnmower (B&S) started that easily!

[460cixy]

The only time my Husqvarna chainsaw has failed to start easily in the last twenty years was when the throttle plate came off. I wish my four stroke ride on lawnmower (B&S) started that easily!

Old huskys never die. Mine just keep getting better 16 husqvarna saws at last count

[DoubleChevron]

Old huskys never die. Mine just keep getting better 16 husqvarna saws at last count

Well I have a nice straight shaft Solo brush cutter.... It's the biggest POS ever. It's a bitch to start (if it starts). And never seems to want to run right... It's a quality modern german made machine...

Now ... I have an old Victa super 600 with the power torque commercial 2stroke on it... It's done so much work, the rubber has worn off the wheels....the carby diaphrams and orings are rock hard (to the point with it pretty much leaks). It ALWAYS starts and runs bloody lovely ... heaps of power.

I recently purchased an old ProMac 650 chainsaw.... You know, other than it has the most horific thirst for petrol and chain oil.... It's bloody brilliant. Always starts ... always runs perfectly.

Why did they get it right 20+ years ago ... but can't get it right now :(

seeya,
Shane L.

[460cixy]

I not long ago had a bunch of brush cutters from a hardware chain that all came back for refund and got passed on to me by a mate to save them from the tip every single one of them had incorrect fuel settings making for some pretty ordinary to use and others un usable at all all had some form of tamper proofing on the screws some easy to defeat others impossible. Wonder how many new machines went straight to the bin?

Now don't forget Malcolm's mower tax is coming too meaning all new machines have to pass emissions standards one good thing that night come of this is cheap China made junk might disappear but to pay for the testing and seting up of this scheme/scam is a tax on all new machines sold. This covers all non road going spark ignition engines

[clive22]

I can't say I'll miss 2 strokes too much when there gone, and I think they are well on the way out. must have owned over 20 2 strokes over the years: whippers nippers, motorcycles, lawn mowers, etc over the years. All bar a few have given problems at some time or other.

They are overly sensitive to fuel mix, altitude, fuel ratio, air temperature and humidity, engine temperature. Unless light weight is paramount IE you carry the engine such a a chainsaw..then I wouldn't buy one again. The world is moving away from 2 strokes..horrible fuel consumption, noisy, smokey, wear out too quick, fuel separates, leave a fuel/oil residue if not drained.


Clive

[460cixy]

I can't say I'll miss 2 strokes too much when there gone, and I think they are well on the way out. must have owned over 20 2 strokes over the years: whippers nippers, motorcycles, lawn mowers, etc over the years. All bar a few have given problems at some time or other.

They are overly sensitive to fuel mix, altitude, fuel ratio, air temperature and humidity, engine temperature. Unless light weight is paramount IE you carry the engine such a a chainsaw..then I wouldn't buy one again. The world is moving away from 2 strokes..horrible fuel consumption, noisy, smokey, wear out too quick, fuel separates, leave a fuel/oil residue if not drained.


Clive

Ridden a modern four stroke dirt bike lately ? They make two strokes look as reliable as an anvil with there delicate valve trains and cylinder heads trying to match two stroke performance and failing badly but people lap them up

[clive22]

No I haven't.

Used to own a few MX/Enduro 2 strokes bikes a long way back. As far a 2 strokes went they were some of the better ones I've owned. I also owned a rotary disk valve 250 side by side KR250. Horrible engine.(fun to ride not own). Lighting fast narrow powerband. Came on for a few thousand revs, nothing either side. Would have to be the most temperamental engine I've ever owned too. Hard to start, always, impossible when it was just warm. The read vale one pot moto engines were superior.

I will grant 2 strokes with respect to power to weight are unbeatable by a Normally Aspirated 4 stroke. It wouldn't surprise me either if they lacked low down torque too compared 2 stroke
I can only surmise in trying to match the performance of the 2 strokes, they have tuned and lightened the whole valve train, reciprocating parts, etc. to the point of unreliability.
Performance is everything to the dirt bike crowd. I guess they'll tune em up as far as the rider will put up with, before maintenance, and other problems hurt sales.


I still think I go 4 stroke (a lower power for reliability) except a for a chainsaw. But I have a feeling, or at least the home size ones, will be all battery in some time. Electric motors suit cutting.


Clive

[gromit]

But I have a feeling, or at least the home size ones, will be all battery in some time. Electric motors suit cutting.



With battery powered items it's a pain when in 5-10 years time the battery karks it and you can't get a replacement or battery technology has moved on. Re-populating the battery works out more expensive than a new tool so you throw it away.....

Mind you...... I have problems with a Homelite chainsaw at the moment. Starts & runs OK but if you turn it off it will not re-start until stone cold, seems to be the coil pack which may be obsolete from an internet search ! Still usable but if it stops it's game over till it's cooled.

A win recently was an old Ryobi whipper snipper (dark green). $5 at a trash & treasure market. fuel pipes were brittle so replaced them and it runs like a new one now.....Not that easy to start because no primer bulb but 4 or 5 pulls on full choke and off she goes.

I have a few other Ryobi whipper snippers that have been thrown out because they wouldn't run (start OK). Always a blockage in the carby, take the carby apart clean it out (never seem to actually find anything) and it then runs OK.



Colin

[460cixy]

Could be the coil check for apart straight away once it won't start what model is it?

[gromit]

Could be the coil check for apart straight away once it won't start what model is it?

It's an i3850b
Found a coil out of Hong Kong but it wasn't listed for this model. Need to take it apart & check to see if it looks the same.

Colin

[460cixy]

Ile have a sniff and see what I come up with

[DoubleChevron]

Well the Solo branded brushcutter I have here.. A friend purchased it brand new ... both he and the mob that sold it to him could never get ti to run right, so he sold it to me after he'd had a gutfull of it .... Now, I'm at the same point.. I've hada bloody gutfull.. I just chucked a new carby gasket in it ... it now runs ... but as always the mixture screws seem to do nothing... I reckon thre will be a casting flaw inside its carby somewhere.. and the aggravating POS just will not run right. I've decided I'll get rid of it.

I asked my father does he have a decent brushcutter I can borrow for an hour and he said "Where the big one ... don't you have it ?" .... Id' forgotten about that thing. None of us ever used it as it was too bloody heavy. About 30years ago my father purchased it ... ex-council. It looked unused ( t would have been to bloody heavy for the council workers to want to use too).

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/594.jpg

This is how big it is compared to a domestic cutter...It usually always starts ... I figured if I could chase up a carby kit for it ... I'd just use that... As it does always start and work well, not matter how any decades between use. Of course it wouldn't start (it would have to be 15years since it was last used).

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/595.jpg

First thing I noticed is I won't need a carby kit .... Look at that... it's a CD carby ... the same as the carby that used to be on my old motorcross 2stroke bike. She has HUGE amounts of compression. So I just need to clean the honey like 2stroke oil that has dried out in the carbies needle and seat ... and I'm back in business.

I needed to get fit right ?

seeya
Shane L.

[460cixy]

Solos are usually pretty good make sure there are no limiters on the mixture screws. What brand is that old clunker?

[DoubleChevron]

Solos are usually pretty good make sure there are no limiters on the mixture screws. What brand is that old clunker?

Yes I know, Solo's are supposed to be good. THis one has been un-tunable from the day it was sold new. I reckon there will be a casting flaw in the carby .. or something crazy like that. The mixture screws do work. But no matter where you adjust them too it won't run properly (at the moment it seems to be leaning out when you run it at full revs ... and really isn't happy).

The biggie ? I'll have to find a brand name on it. It certainly a big commercial quality unit with grease nipples etc on it. I don't think there is any spark, so I'll need to whip it down and dress the surface rust off the magneto no doubt.

seeya,
Shane L.

[DoubleChevron]

that big brushcutter has a Kaaz label (that might be the local store that sold it ?) It has made in japan cast into the motors body. So.... I have no idea![bigsmile1]

seeya,
Shane L.