D4 CV Joint Failure ????

[BMKal]

So - how common is the failure of CV joints in the front of a D4. I went out this morning, and there is a definite banging / grabbing in the front end, both moving forward and reverse, but only when the wheels are turned approaching full lock. Noticed it when reversing out of a parking spot at the Post office, and again when turning into our back laneway.

When travelling normally along the road, there is no issue. Everything very smooth and quiet. Only notice this when moving slowly and steering is turned pretty hard (either way) approaching full lock. Was particular noticeable when reversing from laneway into the back yard, and then driving forward into the corner of the yard.

I have driven through a fair bit of water over the past couple of days, and wonder if that may have contributed to something letting go / filling with crap. Definitely feels like a CV/ uni joint grabbing though. It's not just a clicking noise - you can feel it grabbing.

[Graeme]

Better check for anything loose before any more driving - brake caliper, brake caliper bracket, driveshaft nut, wheel nuts in case it's not a CV.

[Ean Austral]

Front wheel bearing ??? They make some horrible noise when you put the wheels at any sort of angle.

Cheers Ean

[BMKal]

Front wheel bearing ??? They make some horrible noise when you put the wheels at any sort of angle.

Cheers Ean

Yes - wheel bearing was my other thought. Can't pick at the moment whether problem is on the left or the right (I suspect the left). It's too bloody wet to go outside and have a proper look and I can't get the car into the shed as I'm half way through re-arranging it all.

Not planning on driving it anywhere though until I know what the problem is and it is fixed. When things dry out a bit, I'll get it into the shed and up on axle stands and start pulling things to bits. :D

In the meantime, if I'm really desperate to go anywhere, there's SWMBO's Camry :eek:

Or I could possibly steal the Amarok or the RX7 from around my young bloke's place while he's out of town. :twisted:

[Ean Austral]

Yes - wheel bearing was my other thought. Can't pick at the moment whether problem is on the left or the right (I suspect the left). It's too bloody wet to go outside and have a proper look and I can't get the car into the shed as I'm half way through re-arranging it all.

Not planning on driving it anywhere though until I know what the problem is and it is fixed. When things dry out a bit, I'll get it into the shed and up on axle stands and start pulling things to bits. :D

In the meantime, if I'm really desperate to go anywhere, there's SWMBO's Camry :eek:

Or I could possibly steal the Amarok or the RX7 from around my young bloke's place while he's out of town. :twisted:

There is a YouTube video on here from a UK mechanic who gives a " how to " on the front wheel bearing, when you see how bad they fail you can see how you get the dragging effect. Mine wasn't that bad , but it was bad enough to sound like a CV joint but only when turning.

Very easy to check once the wheel is off the ground.- im sure you know that part.

Cheers Ean

[LandyAndy]

I think he has done a shoulder joint whilst Breast Stroking on Hay street in the floods:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Andrew

[discorevy]

generally speaking , the cv joints will make a metallic clicking sound and will usually have a split boot , you could narrow it down by getting it to make the noise while applying the brakes to rule out caliper / brake issues , if the wheel bearing is totally shot your brake pedal will have a longer travel on the first pump, almost sounds like old school stuck in 4 wd, could you send some rain down here please.:). if it is a cv its an easy job , just make sure you order the correct one as manual / auto / petrol / diesel all different

[BMKal]

I think he has done a shoulder joint whilst Breast Stroking on Hay street in the floods:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Andrew

Think I know who's the only one doing any "stroking" around here. :eek:

Sounds like you've been on another shopping trip to Narrogin. ;)

[BMKal]

There is a YouTube video on here from a UK mechanic who gives a " how to " on the front wheel bearing, when you see how bad they fail you can see how you get the dragging effect. Mine wasn't that bad , but it was bad enough to sound like a CV joint but only when turning.

Very easy to check once the wheel is off the ground.- im sure you know that part.

Cheers Ean

Have just watched a couple of American videos on replacing the bearing / hub assembly. The first one didn't show the reason why he was replacing it, but the second one by "Atlantic British" showed the movement in the bearing both with the wheel still on the vehicle, and with the wheel and rotor removed.

The procedure for replacing the hub / bearing assembly looks pretty straight forward, with potentially the most difficult part being belting the old hub off. I've got an air chisel and an FBH though, so shouldn't be a problem.

Hopefully I'll get to at least move the vehicle into the shed tomorrow and get the wheels up off the ground so that I can see if there is any movement there. I'm beginning to think that this is probably the most likely cause of the noises etc that I noticed today. The amount of water I've been driving through over the last couple of days would certainly help bring on a wheel bearing failure if there was one on its way out.

If it is a wheel bearing, I'm thinking that I'll probably replace both sides, whether needed or not.

[Graeme]

The 2 D4 front hubs that I replaced came off with only gentle tapping on the hub flange.

[Disco4Dave]

FBH = F****** B** Hammer ?

[Ean Austral]

Have just watched a couple of American videos on replacing the bearing / hub assembly. The first one didn't show the reason why he was replacing it, but the second one by "Atlantic British" showed the movement in the bearing both with the wheel still on the vehicle, and with the wheel and rotor removed.

The procedure for replacing the hub / bearing assembly looks pretty straight forward, with potentially the most difficult part being belting the old hub off. I've got an air chisel and an FBH though, so shouldn't be a problem.

Hopefully I'll get to at least move the vehicle into the shed tomorrow and get the wheels up off the ground so that I can see if there is any movement there. I'm beginning to think that this is probably the most likely cause of the noises etc that I noticed today. The amount of water I've been driving through over the last couple of days would certainly help bring on a wheel bearing failure if there was one on its way out.

If it is a wheel bearing, I'm thinking that I'll probably replace both sides, whether needed or not.

There is a big price range in the hubs, I think it's the British atlantic that is basically a how to and it's pretty well as he does it. You just need a big torque wrench for the hub but, from memory it's a 32mm socket which is easiest loosened whilst the wheels are still on the ground.
I used a 1 inch drive torque wrench but 3/4 would do the job.

Cheers Ean

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

Hi

Just a left-field idea (from some personal experience!)...

As someone else mentioned, one possible explanation could be that it is 'stuck in 4WD' - particularly given you have a 'grabbing' sensation as well as the knocking.
Get someone to walk alongside the car when you are turning - if it is the centre diff, they should be able to see the wheels actually rotating (I know, they are supposed to rotate, but you know what I mean!) and it'll be in time with the knocking. It'll be the same on front & rears.

After crossing Nolan's Brook on the Old Telegraph Track in Cape York (lots of water!), I had a similar 'knocking/shuddering' from the drivetrain.
Originally, I thought it was the front wheels, and thought it could have been a CV joint. It only made the noise once steering was past 'halfway' (to one side or the other). I did a post on here somewhere at that time.

Long story short - some water got in 'somewhere' that affected the centre diff. It locked up, and caused the knocking/grabbing whilst turning hard (due to releasing the windup).

Solutions
1. I had my transfer case replaced (it was under extended warranty) - but that should be a second option.
2. Another member had a very similar issue (at the some location!) about a month after me - he had his transfer case drained, flushed etc, and the error codes etc reset (I think), and it was good as new. AndrewM can correct all my errors in here... :o

Anyway, it's probably something easy, simple, and nothing related to your centre diff/transfer case - I hope so!

Thanks.

Rob

[BMKal]

Well - pretty sure it's not a wheel bearing. :censored:

Have just managed to get front wheels jacked up (one at a time for the moment) and checked for any "movement" - none evident in either wheel.

Now we are getting storms again and I can't be bothered doing any more outside for the moment, so further investigation will come in the next couple of days when it cools down and the humidity level is back to something bearable. :(

One question though - should I be able to rotate the wheels when they are jacked off the ground (one at a time). I would have thought so, as the front diff at least is not locked - but I could not rotate either wheel when I was out there a while ago.

Yesterday I moved the car into the shed after I had finished clearing it all out. While doing so, I had a bit of a play around with the 4WD settings while having the display screen showing the vehicle configuration. Everything appeared normal - centre diff showed as "locked" when I put it in low range, rock crawl mode as I would have expected, and then went back to "unlocked" (green) when I switched everything back to normal. I have had no "error" messages come up on the dash to suggest anything wrong electronically etc.

One other thing that I did notice yesterday and again today was that there is sometimes a loud "clunk" like something engaging or dis-engaging shortly after shutting off the engine. Seems to be coming from under the front half of the car somewhere (sounds like forward of firewall) - definitely not EPB sound (that is working quite normally). Car still drives forward or reverse in a straight line without any problems / noises etc, but even moving very slowly in the back yard in either forward or reverse with the steering turned more than about half way to full lock, the grabbing / banging is quite severe.

Hopefully will be able to investigate further over next couple of days. Will set up the Gap IID tool today and plug that in tomorrow to check for any error codes .......................... and hope it's not up for a trip to Perth on the back of a truck. Don't know that there's anyone in Kalgoorlie I'd let touch it if the problem is not something that I can fix myself.

[Graeme]

Sounding very much like the centre diff is locked.

[LandyAndy]

Think I know who's the only one doing any "stroking" around here. :eek:

Sounds like you've been on another shopping trip to Narrogin. ;)

They seek him here,they seek him there.
He was recently spotted at a pub in Vic Park.Photo from Farcebook.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/343.jpg (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/LandyAndy_2006/media/15621691_10154785907599547_1024471550995110875_n_z psvedjvvku.jpg.html)
Andrew

[BMKal]

Sounding very much like the centre diff is locked.

That's what I've been afraid of Graeme. Not sure what my next course of action should be from here if this is the case - probably a trip on a tilt tray to a decent LR specialist down in Perth (won't be going to a dealers). ;)

[BMKal]

They seek him here,they seek him there.
He was recently spotted at a pub in Vic Park.Photo from Farcebook.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/343.jpg (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/LandyAndy_2006/media/15621691_10154785907599547_1024471550995110875_n_z psvedjvvku.jpg.html)
Andrew

At a guess, I'd say that photo was taken when you blokes were on your way home after your recent fishing trip ................................. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/629.jpg (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/skype-emoticons.html)

[LandyAndy]

Nah Mate.
Mr GOE's wife posted them.
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

Just to the left of The Narrogin Tranny is our Gordon.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/430.jpg (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/LandyAndy_2006/media/15621597_10154786242019547_839907268871572952_n_zp siyahy9xu.jpg.html)
Andrew

[Graeme]

The motor can be recalibrated using an appropriately authorised IIDtool.

The front tail-shaft could be removed but driving it a long distance with the centre diff locked could put unintended strain on its bearings.

Don't try going into low range as there's a fair chance it wont go back to high range, not that you're going to be driving it anywhere.

[BMKal]

Thanks Graeme. I'll see what can be achieved with the IID tool today.

I tried putting it into low range on Friday, at the same time as selecting Rock Crawl mode to deliberately "lock" the centre diff and then switch everything back to normal driving / high range. It went into low range and back to high range without any problem. It also went into "Rock Crawl" mode and indicated centre diff locked on the touch screen display, and then indicated centre diff unlocked when I switched back to "normal" driving mode.

[LandyAndy]

Brian.have you tried reversing it for a reasonable distance whilst steering right and left.The transmission may be "wound up" and unable to unlock the CDL.
Andrew

[Graeme]

The CDL has clutch plates rather than gears that slide so can release immediately providing the clutch/range motor is operating and is correctly calibrated.

[BMKal]

OK - so I've now got the Gap IID Tool all set up and activated (took me a while as I am no genius when it comes to computers / electronics and am very wary of hitting a wrong button and permanently stuffing something up).

From what I can see on there, it would appear that the problem is definitely with the transfer case / CDL / clutch plates. I went in to the error log section and, apart from a couple of obvious ones like "the door is open" and "the ignition is on" - the only error listed was .................

TCCM - Transfer Case
HSCAN - 1 fault

P2789-00 Clutch adaptive learning at its limit.

Triggered on 03.02.2017 18:15:58 at 128,114km.

Going by that, the "alarm" was not triggered when I drove through some water, which occurred a couple of days before that. Looks like it was triggered when I raised & lowered the suspension / tried changing to low range & back to high range / tried engaging the CDL by selecting "Rock Crawl" mode and then returning all to "normal" settings and reversing vehicle into the shed on Friday evening.

So, while there was definitely a problem for a couple of days before that, it doesn't look like any "alarms" had been registered until I started playing with the vehicle settings on Friday.

And just to really top off my day .................. I had to go out and empty the trailer at the tip today and then pick up some building materials from Bunnings for a job I'm doing inside the house .............. driving a bloody Camry. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/581.jpg (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/skype-emoticons.html)

[Grentarc]

OK - so I've now got the Gap IID Tool all set up and activated (took me a while as I am no genius when it comes to computers / electronics and am very wary of hitting a wrong button and permanently stuffing something up).

From what I can see on there, it would appear that the problem is definitely with the transfer case / CDL / clutch plates. I went in to the error log section and, apart from a couple of obvious ones like "the door is open" and "the ignition is on" - the only error listed was .................

TCCM - Transfer Case
HSCAN - 1 fault

P2789-00 Clutch adaptive learning at its limit.

Triggered on 03.02.2017 18:15:58 at 128,114km.

Going by that, the "alarm" was not triggered when I drove through some water, which occurred a couple of days before that. Looks like it was triggered when I raised & lowered the suspension / tried changing to low range & back to high range / tried engaging the CDL by selecting "Rock Crawl" mode and then returning all to "normal" settings and reversing vehicle into the shed on Friday evening.

So, while there was definitely a problem for a couple of days before that, it doesn't look like any "alarms" had been registered until I started playing with the vehicle settings on Friday.

And just to really top off my day .................. I had to go out and empty the trailer at the tip today and then pick up some building materials from Bunnings for a job I'm doing inside the house .............. driving a bloody Camry. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/581.jpg (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/skype-emoticons.html)
What you need to do is go into the "Calibration" option on the main menu of the IID Tool once connected.
Then select "TCCM - Transfer Case"

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/582.jpg

Then do "Calibrate Clutch" option
You shouldn't need to do "Calibrate Position Sensor"

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/583.jpg

[discorevy]

also check connectors to the TC for corrosion , it can take a while after water ingress to show up.

[BMKal]

Thanks for that. I've now got it up on a decent set of axle stands and will be able to get in underneath it tomorrow and go right over everything that I can see, including electrical connections etc.

Following that, will attempt calibration with the IID Tool - although I've got to admit that part of the process makes me nervous.

At the moment, I'm sitting here going through the seven and a half thousand odd pages of the manual I bought from Dave's shop, looking for any reference to that error code and other relevant information. While it is a very detailed manual, it is a real bugger to find anything in. So I have got a spreadsheet open alongside it on the same screen, and while I'm going through the manual, I'm developing a more user friendly "index". Once I've got that working as I'm hoping for, happy to send anyone who is interested a copy.

[LandyAndy]

Justin.
Is there any calibration available for the transmission itself with the idtool???
Andrew

[Tombie]

Justin.

Is there any calibration available for the transmission itself with the idtool???

Andrew



Yes. Reset Adaptive Values. No need to mess with it usually.

[LandyAndy]

Yes. Reset Adaptive Values. No need to mess with it usually.

So no re-calibration for clutches????
Only asking as when the shift gets harsh in my grader there is a transmission calibration I do with the onboard diagnostics.
Takes about 30 mins for the ecu to do(good excuse for a snooze),gearchange is like new after.
Andrew

[Bytemrk]

At the moment, I'm sitting here going through the seven and a half thousand odd pages of the manual I bought from Dave's shop, looking for any reference to that error code and other relevant information. While it is a very detailed manual, it is a real bugger to find anything in. So I have got a spreadsheet open alongside it on the same screen, and while I'm going through the manual, I'm developing a more user friendly "index". Once I've got that working as I'm hoping for, happy to send anyone who is interested a copy.

Brian, for future reference, "Ctrl"+ "F" is your friend to search the PDF's for the code

If you have the same disk I got from AULRO, in the document titled: "Discovery 4 _ LR4 2009-2012_Sec_1 & 2.pdf" Page 579/1329 has your error code.;)

P2789-00

Description:
Clutch Adaptive Learning at Limit -No sub type information

Possible Causes
Transfer case clutch not calibrated
Transfer case motor position sensor circuit short circuit to ground, short circuit to power, open circuit, high resistance
Transfer case solenoid circuit short circuit to ground, short circuit to power, open circuit, high resistance
Transfer case fluid contaminated with water
Transfer case clutch worn/burnt
Transfer case control module internal failure

Actions:
NOTES:

If additional transfer case circuit fault related DTCs are also set, perform the relevant corrective action(s) first and retest.

Transfer case motor position sensor voltage (sensor supply to sensor ground) should be 8V to 11V, resistance (signal A circuit to ground circuit) should be 16.0k ohms to 20.0k ohms and resistance (signal B circuit to ground circuit) should be 16.0k ohms to 20.0k ohms.

Transfer case solenoid resistance should be 0.2 ohms to 10.0 ohms.

Using the manufacturer approved diagnostic system, perform routine - Transfer Case Replacement

Refer to the electrical circuit diagrams and check the transfer case motor position sensor circuit for short circuit to ground, short circuit to power, open circuit, high resistance

Refer to the electrical circuit diagrams and check the transfer case solenoid circuit for short circuit to ground, short circuit to power, open circuit, high resistance

Refer to the relevant section of the workshop manual and check the transfer case fluid level/condition. If water is present in the fluid, check the integrity of the transfer case breather and install a new transfer case and perform routine - Transfer Case Replacement

Check the integrity of the driveshafts, differentials and half shafts. Rectify as necessary and install a new transfer case and perform routine - Transfer Case Replacement

Using the manufacturer approved diagnostic system, perform routine - Transfer Case Replacement. Clear the DTCs and retest. If the fault persists, install a new transfer case control module and perform routine - Transfer Case Replacement


Sorry for the crap formatting of the Actions - but check that page on the original...

Possible cause of Water in transfer case fluid stood out to me after your initial description.

[Graeme]

Possibly water got into connector at the TC or even the control unit near the brake master cylinder.

[LandyAndy]

I doubt Brian would paddle that deep Greame.How well is the transfercase breathed on these????? Is it possible water was sucked into the breather???
The D2s were way up high cant say Ive spotted any on my D4.
Andrew

[BMKal]

Thanks Mark. I had given up looking for tonight. :D

I must have a different version of the disc than you. My workshop manual is a single file, with 7,422 pages. :o

Certainly covers everything that there is to be covered - it's just a matter of finding it. I'll try that Ctrl + F later on. I've never been a big user of keyboard shortcuts, so not familiar with them. Only just starting to use Ctrl C and Ctrl V in some other stuff I'm doing at the moment.

[BMKal]

Possibly water got into connector at the TC or even the control unit near the brake master cylinder.

Water wouldn't have been any deeper than 18 inches or so at the worst Graeme, and all on bitumen streets. The streets of Kalgoorlie turn into a series of fast running creeks when we get heavy rain. Admittedly, this was probably the heaviest downpour and the most water on the streets we've seen in our 20 odd years here.

At our young bloke's place, it was running down his driveway off the intersection of two streets (he is facing a "T" junction) - through his carport and out into his backyard, where it was at least a couple of feet deep across the entire yard until I could cut the chain and open his back gate to let it flow out onto the racecourse land behind him.

The deepest water I drove through was in front of his place to get into / out of his driveway, and it might have been a couple of feet deep there - but I had the suspension in "off road" height when I drove through this and when it was left parked in his driveway.

Fortunately for him, I took quite a few photos and a couple of video clips with my hand held camera, plus there is some very good video footage I've saved from the dash-cam. He may need it in his dealings with the council and his insurance company (his shed / workshop and games room out the back of the house were all flooded with about 18 inches of water throughout).

[Graeme]

I doubt Brian would paddle that deep Greame.How well is the transfercase breathed on these????? Is it possible water was sucked into the breather???
The D2s were way up high cant say Ive spotted any on my D4.
Andrew
The breather is quite high at the back of the engine so unlikely to have contaminated the TC. However if the electrical connector on the TC isn't sealing then perhaps there has been some temporary short circuiting.

Travelling in deep water can cause water to get into the transfer case control unit because it's unsealed but if that occurs then often the TCCU fails which then causes loss of canbus to lots of ecus because the TCCU is a gateway on the HS canbus, which has not occurred in this instance.

[Tombie]

So no re-calibration for clutches????

Only asking as when the shift gets harsh in my grader there is a transmission calibration I do with the onboard diagnostics.

Takes about 30 mins for the ecu to do(good excuse for a snooze),gearchange is like new after.

Andrew



Self adaptation- you can reset if you like and it will behave poorly until t quickly adapts.

[Grentarc]

Self adaptation- you can reset if you like and it will behave poorly until t quickly adapts.
As Mike said - it calibrates/learns whilst you drive.
If you find you are having a bit of lag on take off, clear the adaptations and it will be much better.

[BMKal]

Self adaptation- you can reset if you like and it will behave poorly until t quickly adapts.

Looks to me like this feature is only available for six speeds anyway, so may be irrelevant to Andrew.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/532.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/iqj87b42b/)

[Grentarc]

Looks to me like this feature is only available for six speeds anyway, so may be irrelevant to Andrew.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/532.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/iqj87b42b/)
It is there for 8 speeds. The manual must be out of date, as I did it on my father's L322

[BMKal]

Thanks again for everyone's help on this. It would appear that the problem is now fixed, and I may have saved myself quite a few dollars in transporting the vehicle to Perth and having it repaired there.

The Gap IID tool has definitely paid for itself (as has the D4 workshop manual that I bought from Dave quite some time ago). Having a son who is a diesel fitter / mechanic and who is not afraid to pull things apart / play with settings / use diagnostic tools etc is also a big help. :D

So, today we had the vehicle up in the air. Checked all electrical connections around the transfer case and could see no sign of water ingress / dirty terminals / corrosion anywhere. In fact, for a vehicle with over 120,000km on the clock, the whole transfer case area still looks like brand new. Checked transfer case oil level and condition - level was exactly where it should be and the oil looked very clean and like "new". No sign at all of water in the oil.

Discovered that with the engine off, you could turn the front prop shaft about a quarter of a turn independently of the rear prop shaft, which suggested that the centre diff was not "locked" with the engine turned off. As soon as engine was started, you could hear a distinctive "clunk" from under the vehicle which turned out to be the transfer case clutch solenoid activating / engaging (I could not hear this from inside the vehicle). As soon as this happened, the centre diff was locked, even though not showing this on the main screen display or anywhere else. You could not turn the front prop shaft at all once this clutch had engaged. Shut off the engine, and shortly afterwards, could hear a very distinctive "clunk" from under the vehicle (I had noticed this "new" sound over the past few days). This was the clutch solenoid de-activating / disengaging. As soon as this had happened, you could again turn the front prop shaft about a quarter of a turn independently of the rear shaft.

So - pulled the electrical connection from the clutch solenoid and started the engine - the solenoid did not activate and you could still turn the front prop shaft. Lowered the vehicle down off the axle stands and took it for a test drive. No more shuddering / grabbing / scary noises. :D Only a "Gearbox Fault" showing on the dash. Worst case scenario - I could drive the vehicle down to Perth like this if necessary, with no centre diff lock available - but this would only be a last resort.

Next, re-connected the electrical connection to the clutch solenoid, plugged in the Gap IID tool, checked all faults and cleared them, then ran both the Transfer Case Clutch Calibration and the Position or Range Sensor Calibration routines as per the instructions in the Gap IID manual. Took vehicle for a test drive and everything working as it should be. Stuck it into low range / rock crawl, observed indication on dash screen that centre diff was "locked", drove vehicle in a tight circle and observed indication of centre diff locking and unlocking as it should do when diff "wind-up" occurred. Then returned all settings to "normal" and observed on screen that centre diff had unlocked. Another test drive to confirm that everything is working as it should be - and I am now sitting down relaxing and enjoying a scotch and dry ................. :cool:

So it appears that something was sending a signal to the clutch as soon as the engine started, and the centre diff lock was engaging. When the engine was switched off, the diff lock would dis-engage. Exactly what was causing this signal to be sent to the clutch solenoid is a mystery, but I can only assume that the Position or Range Sensor had somehow gone out of calibration and was causing the problem. What caused this to happen is anybody's guess - but at least it's comforting to know that with the Gap IID tool, the workshop manual and the assistance of those with knowledge on here, it's possible to fix these things yourself. especially when the closest dealership or independent workshop I would trust with the vehicle is over 600km away.

[Bytemrk]

Great outcome Brian.... nice to hear it's fixed.

[Ean Austral]

Great to hear and also a good plug for the Gap llD tool as well.


Will put that one in the memory back for future reference just in case.


Cheers Ean

[Graeme]

Gap add features such as this when brought to their attention the benefits of people being able to fix simple malfunctions when away from dealers. The TC and e-diff calibrations are great examples of functions added by request.

[discorevy]

good stuff and well done
bit partial to scotch n dry myself;)

[Graeme]

So it appears that something was sending a signal to the clutch as soon as the engine started, and the centre diff lock was engaging. When the engine was switched off, the diff lock would dis-engage. Exactly what was causing this signal to be sent to the clutch solenoid is a mysteryWe know that e-diffs are pre-armed for take-off even though the diff lock symbol doesn't indicate it and it now seems that the centre diff is too, just that your one had become a little too ambitious.

[Grentarc]

We know that e-diffs are pre-armed for take-off even though the diff lock symbol doesn't indicate it and it now seems that the centre diff is too, just that your one had become a little too ambitious.
Yes, the centre diff is preloaded just like the e-diff is, I haven't logged it, but it is quite similar in how it works to the e-diff

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

Well, I'm glad you've managed to work it out, and at (reasonably) low cost!

I would've loved to have this knowledge (and the iidtool) when I was stuck at the tip of Cape York with the same symptoms. I'm almost certain that I had the exact same issue after the water crossing, that could've been fixed without replacing the transfer case!

Thanks for sharing the journey/fix.

Regards

Rob

[Graeme]

I think that your incident Rob was the catalyst for Gap to make the capability available for the TC and e-diff for even the newest vehicles rather than just the D3 TC that had recently been provided because old D3 TCs were getting rebuilt due to wear.

[Tombie]

As said many times...

A diagnostic device (IID) for a modern vehicle is as essential as pliers, spanners etc.

In BMs case, it's now paid for itself in full...
No Flatbed ride hundreds of kilometres, no loss of vehicle use during that time, no diagnostic charges from dealer..

On top of that:
CCF editing - got that Global close working yet BM?
ECU remapping
And best of all, quickly read the vehicle and can have all ECUs (20+) updated to the latest firmware revisions quickly and effectively.

[Graeme]

It's about time that I updated my tool-kit to include a tool that supports TC and e-diff calibrating especially as I will need to calibrate an e-diff shortly.

[LRD414]

So it appears that something was sending a signal to the clutch as soon as the engine started, and the centre diff lock was engaging ..... Exactly what was causing this signal to be sent to the clutch solenoid is a mystery, but I can only assume that the Position or Range Sensor had somehow gone out of calibration and was causing the problem


We know that e-diffs are pre-armed for take-off even though the diff lock symbol doesn't indicate it and it now seems that the centre diff is too, just that your one had become a little too ambitious.

So perhaps the clutch solenoid engaging on start-up is actually normal but the extent of clutch locking was not.
From memory, pre-arming e-diff is normally 30 or 40% but for some reason it was going to fully locked on Brian's.
What does the sensor actually read?

Cheers,
Scott

[Graeme]

The sensor is to sense the range position - high or low.

[DiscoJeffster]

In regards to IIDTOOL ECU updates, I purchased the Fast Lane update for the Terrain Response ECU for my 2010 D4, updating it to the latest D4 code. Winner!

[BMKal]

CCF editing - got that Global close working yet BM?


Yep - Global Close is working.

I also enabled "Retractable Running Boards", but that function doesn't seem to be working. :p

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

In regards to IIDTOOL ECU updates, I purchased the Fast Lane update for the Terrain Response ECU for my 2010 D4, updating it to the latest D4 code. Winner!

Hi

I did a quick search and came up with 0 (poor user skills, I imagine)...

What is the Fast Lane update you purchased? From who/where?

Thanks.

Rob

[Tombie]

Hi



I did a quick search and came up with 0 (poor user skills, I imagine)...



What is the Fast Lane update you purchased? From who/where?



Thanks.



Rob



From GAP

[TuffRR]

In regards to IIDTOOL ECU updates, I purchased the Fast Lane update for the Terrain Response ECU for my 2010 D4, updating it to the latest D4 code. Winner!

Just to clarify, are you saying that you have loaded the latest (ie MY16) optimised traction control algorithms etc onto your MY10?

[cjc_td5]

Any idea if the Nanocom can do the same gearbox calibrations?

[Grentarc]

Just to clarify, are you saying that you have loaded the latest (ie MY16) optimised traction control algorithms etc onto your MY10?
MY14+ all have the same software - I updated the Terrain Response software of my MY10 D4 to the same build numbers of the MY14+ software. It has made a noticeable improvement in the limited testing I have done so far

[TuffRR]

Interesting, will look to see if i can do this with my Nanocom. If not, it will be the final nail in the coffin and it will be up for sale.

[Ferret]

... and can have all ECUs (20+) updated to the latest firmware revisions quickly and effectively.


... I purchased the Fast Lane update for the Terrain Response ECU for my 2010 D4, updating it to the latest D4 code.

So how does this work? I can see the reference to 'Fast Lane' in the GAP IDII tool user documentation.


Fast Lane Service
The re-flash module allows the tools to reflash any ECU with updates. The GAP Fast Lane Service ensures that the correct update file for the current software level, hardware, mechanical components, and geographic market is chosen. There is a 25 GBP per ECU administrative charge for non-Pro units to cover the file selection process. This service is free of charge since covered by the annual IIDTool Pro Ssubscription.

And with the IDII's ECU function I can see which of my ECUs are not up to date but how to proceed from there and where and how is the 25GBP paid?

[Grentarc]

So how does this work? I can see the reference to 'Fast Lane' in the GAP IDII tool user documentation.



And with the IDII's ECU function I can see which of my ECUs are not up to date but how to proceed from there and where and how is the 25GBP paid?
You pay the 25 GBP using GAP's online store, then go to the ECU Info pge in the app and use the email function to email the whole list to Gap and tell them which module you want to update.

[DiscoJeffster]

Just to clarify, are you saying that you have loaded the latest (ie MY16) optimised traction control algorithms etc onto your MY10?



The latest compatible, yes. I understand that the hardware is identical from 2010-2016, only the algorithms improved, thus I requested the most up to date for my model, so I believe that's where I'm up to. I'll confirm what model year it relates to as I have an outstanding query as to any other worthwhile ECU updates.

[Narangga]

Any idea if the Nanocom can do the same gearbox calibrations?


Interesting, will look to see if i can do this with my Nanocom. If not, it will be the final nail in the coffin and it will be up for sale.

It's too dark, too wet and I'm too busy to go to the vehicle, plug it in and check, but the Nanocom manual p1 states "Clutch Calibration (Transfer Case Control Module)".

[Grentarc]

I did a log of the run to childcare this morning - if you download the PDF you can see how the e-diff and centre diff load up - the massive spike in the centre diff at the end going to full lock was when I put the gearbox in Park - it then unlocked when I turned the engine off.

http://www.waggafish.com/diffs.pdf

[BMKal]

So why does the centre diff in particular load up like this when you are not intentionally engaging it ?

If it loads up every time you put the vehicle into Park for example, doesn't this increase the risk of problems similar to what I have just experienced. I'm struggling to understand their logic here.

[Geedublya]

So why does the centre diff in particular load up like this when you are not intentionally engaging it ?

If it loads up every time you put the vehicle into Park for example, doesn't this increase the risk of problems similar to what I have just experienced. I'm struggling to understand their logic here.

I'm guessing it is so the park function has the most wheels engaged and less chance of the vehicle moving.

[BMKal]

I'm guessing it is so the park function has the most wheels engaged and less chance of the vehicle moving.

Possibly - but the diff unlocks immediately you shut the engine off, so this "benefit" is short lived.

[Grentarc]

So why does the centre diff in particular load up like this when you are not intentionally engaging it ?

If it loads up every time you put the vehicle into Park for example, doesn't this increase the risk of problems similar to what I have just experienced. I'm struggling to understand their logic here.

The diffs load up as an active traction aid, rather than a reactive - prevent any loss of traction before it happens.
To me, the Park locking at the end is as Geedublya stated

I'm guessing it is so the park function has the most wheels engaged and less chance of the vehicle moving.

[Grentarc]

Possibly - but the diff unlocks immediately you shut the engine off, so this "benefit" is short lived.
I also didn't have the EPB applied for that test, so not sure if that will influence it's centre diff locking behaviour. I will try to do another one and use the EPB this time.

[Tombie]

Possibly - but the diff unlocks immediately you shut the engine off, so this "benefit" is short lived.



On hill, for hill starts etc... and as part of the drive through take off etc.

[Russrobe]

Thanks again for everyone's help on this. It would appear that the problem is now fixed, and I may have saved myself quite a few dollars in transporting the vehicle to Perth and having it repaired there.

The Gap IID tool has definitely paid for itself (as has the D4 workshop manual that I bought from Dave quite some time ago). Having a son who is a diesel fitter / mechanic and who is not afraid to pull things apart / play with settings / use diagnostic tools etc is also a big help. :D

So, today we had the vehicle up in the air. Checked all electrical connections around the transfer case and could see no sign of water ingress / dirty terminals / corrosion anywhere. In fact, for a vehicle with over 120,000km on the clock, the whole transfer case area still looks like brand new. Checked transfer case oil level and condition - level was exactly where it should be and the oil looked very clean and like "new". No sign at all of water in the oil.

Discovered that with the engine off, you could turn the front prop shaft about a quarter of a turn independently of the rear prop shaft, which suggested that the centre diff was not "locked" with the engine turned off. As soon as engine was started, you could hear a distinctive "clunk" from under the vehicle which turned out to be the transfer case clutch solenoid activating / engaging (I could not hear this from inside the vehicle). As soon as this happened, the centre diff was locked, even though not showing this on the main screen display or anywhere else. You could not turn the front prop shaft at all once this clutch had engaged. Shut off the engine, and shortly afterwards, could hear a very distinctive "clunk" from under the vehicle (I had noticed this "new" sound over the past few days). This was the clutch solenoid de-activating / disengaging. As soon as this had happened, you could again turn the front prop shaft about a quarter of a turn independently of the rear shaft.

So - pulled the electrical connection from the clutch solenoid and started the engine - the solenoid did not activate and you could still turn the front prop shaft. Lowered the vehicle down off the axle stands and took it for a test drive. No more shuddering / grabbing / scary noises. :D Only a "Gearbox Fault" showing on the dash. Worst case scenario - I could drive the vehicle down to Perth like this if necessary, with no centre diff lock available - but this would only be a last resort.

Next, re-connected the electrical connection to the clutch solenoid, plugged in the Gap IID tool, checked all faults and cleared them, then ran both the Transfer Case Clutch Calibration and the Position or Range Sensor Calibration routines as per the instructions in the Gap IID manual. Took vehicle for a test drive and everything working as it should be. Stuck it into low range / rock crawl, observed indication on dash screen that centre diff was "locked", drove vehicle in a tight circle and observed indication of centre diff locking and unlocking as it should do when diff "wind-up" occurred. Then returned all settings to "normal" and observed on screen that centre diff had unlocked. Another test drive to confirm that everything is working as it should be - and I am now sitting down relaxing and enjoying a scotch and dry ................. :cool:

So it appears that something was sending a signal to the clutch as soon as the engine started, and the centre diff lock was engaging. When the engine was switched off, the diff lock would dis-engage. Exactly what was causing this signal to be sent to the clutch solenoid is a mystery, but I can only assume that the Position or Range Sensor had somehow gone out of calibration and was causing the problem. What caused this to happen is anybody's guess - but at least it's comforting to know that with the Gap IID tool, the workshop manual and the assistance of those with knowledge on here, it's possible to fix these things yourself. especially when the closest dealership or independent workshop I would trust with the vehicle is over 600km away.

Digging up an old thread as i'm just after an update. BMKal, did this ever reoccur? I'm having the same issue, although mine's only temporarily staying unlocked after running the two calibrations. It's locking itself again after a short drive.
I'm considering paying for the software update, as it's out of date. Although seeing as I had the TC replaced in 2016 you'd think they would have done it. Is there any chance replacing a TC with a new one and not updating the algorithms could destroy a TC within 40 000 kms? There's no signs of an oil leak from the seals...

Positive side to this issue is both my front and rear diffs definitely still have LSD, after 220k kms it's chirping wheels in any car park or slow/tight corner like a RWD falcon with a mini spool[biggrin]

[BMKal]

Hasn't happened again, but the car has had very little use since this problem was encountered. I'm back working again full time at the moment and have a company vehicle, so the Disco rarely ventures out these days.

To be honest, I'm seriously considering replacing it with a dual cab ute - have started looking at available options.

Update : Got it out of the shed today (Sunday). Gave it a good wash and took it for a long run. No problems / faults at all. After driving a HiLux for the past 6 months or so, I had forgotten how good this thing is to drive. Am now amongst the ranks of the semi-retired / unemployed again, so no more company vehicle. Will have to make a decision on whether or not to keep the Disco - but a ute is looking very attractive at the moment.

[Russrobe]

Hasn't happened again, but the car has had very little use since this problem was encountered. I'm back working again full time at the moment and have a company vehicle, so the Disco rarely ventures out these days.

To be honest, I'm seriously considering replacing it with a dual cab ute - have started looking at available options.

Update : Got it out of the shed today (Sunday). Gave it a good wash and took it for a long run. No problems / faults at all. After driving a HiLux for the past 6 months or so, I had forgotten how good this thing is to drive. Am now amongst the ranks of the semi-retired / unemployed again, so no more company vehicle. Will have to make a decision on whether or not to keep the Disco - but a ute is looking very attractive at the moment.

Yes I'm considering the same, trading in for something of lesser value (dual cabs can be had for $15000) I've gone from high income earner to uni student so one extreme to the next too. It will be a shame if it has to go, they really are the most versatile vehicles on the market.

Hmm, i'll have to try the Transfer Case ECU update on mine as a last ditch attempt.

Thanks for the update btw, I just found it.

Russ

[Tombie]

Will have to make a decision on whether or not to keep the Disco - but a ute is looking very attractive at the moment.

Mechanophilia 🤪[emoji12][emoji56][emoji48]

[rick130]

Mechanophilia 🤪[emoji12][emoji56][emoji48][emoji23][emoji23]
Yep, who are we to judge. [emoji6]