Camper Battery Charger

[Ranga]

I'm looking for a charger for the Trayon camper. It has a 240V inlet that was used for 3-way fridge, but as I've replaced it with 12V unit, I'm hoping connect the inlet to a battery charger. Then, the battery charger would be able to charge the battery when 240V is available and required.

The question is, are there any chargers that can successfully manage charging a battery at the same time that a fridge is drawing power?

I know my CTEK has a supply mode, but this needs to be manually set, and then I'm not sure how well it charges in that mode.

Any ideas?

[weeds]

I always connect my CTEK the night before while the fridges are running.......

If you want something automated I.e. Once you connect 240 to the van than in it sure what the best option is.

[Blknight.aus]

almost any charger will work to some extent however, The dumber the charger the better off you're likely to be as the fridge cycling will mess up a lot of the multi stage chargers also Some chargers dont like sitting with a battery on the leads with no mains power available.


to do what you want I suggest you get a sparky to wire up a contactor (relay) on the mains input that will only connect the charger to the battery when the 240v power is applied.

While hes at that its also worth getting him to put in a couple of outlets with RCD and everything else so that when you do go and hook up at a campsite you dont have to run more than one supply lead or an external powerboard so you can plug stuff you normally have on the inverter in the car onto the mains. (trust me on this, its going to happen)

[Ranga]

I always connect my CTEK the night before while the fridges are running.......

If you want something automated I.e. Once you connect 240 to the van than in it sure what the best option is.

In reality, any charger that has supply mode I think will do the job to keep the fridge running, and is probably all I really need. Before I go down that path, I'm curious to see if there's any smart chargers out there that can charge a battery whist something is drawing.

This post https://www.exploroz.com/forum/101584/charging-100ah-agm-battery-whilst-under-load seems to suggest many chargers will do what I want just fine - the smart chargers might be problematic.

[Ranga]

While hes at that its also worth getting him to put in a couple of outlets with RCD

You beat me to it whilst I was away researching :)

Luckily the Trayon has an RCD and outlet - handy for those very rare occasions like down in Jindabyne when we actually paid to stay in a caravan park, and used the 240V for the little ceramic heater - never been so warm huddled under canvas!

Any suggestions on a 'dumb' charger that will work with a AGM deep cycle?

[Blknight.aus]

Ive got a few but none of them are currently available.

There was a mob doing an All in one unit for campers 6 or so months ago that was a combination mains powered battery charger, battery managment unit (solar, external charge and low voltage cutout) and inverter all as a wall mount unit.

It might be worth looking at some of the DIY battery tank units as they have most of thast stuff built into them now, all thats missing is the battery.

Engle have one but I think I could build it into a box out of off the shelf jaycar bits cheaper.

[Ranga]

There was a mob doing an All in one unit for campers 6 or so months ago that was a combination mains powered battery charger, battery managment unit (solar, external charge and low voltage cutout) and inverter all as a wall mount unit.

You don't happen to remember the name of this, or any other unit to narrow my search? :cool:

[Blknight.aus]

no, but Im crap with names.

I know they are popular with the winnebago type and van people, you coudl try one of their mags or a google search.

Red arc made one for a while but it was crap.

[Tombie]

You don't need supply mode..
A Ctek MXS25 in charge mode will do fine..
(Supply mode is based on the battery being removed and just powering by itself).

[drivesafe]

Hi Ranga, as Tombie posted, you do not need a battery charger with a "SUPPLY" mode, as this will NOT charge batteries properly.

All you need to do is work out how much power you are going to be drawing from the battery while you are charging the same battery.

Then select a battery charger with at least 10 amps more charging capacity and you will then be able to charge your battery and power your accessories at the same time.

Furthermore, it is standard RV practice to simply connect the battery charger to the battery and leave it that way.

Then set up your 240vac connection as you planned and then when ever you are on mains power, the charger with automatically charge your battery and power your accessories without you needing to do anything more than connecting the mains to your camper.

If you have solar, this to simply connects directly to your camper battery and the same with power coming from the tow vehicle.

There is no need to separate anything at any time.

[Don 130]

We have a 'Setec' device in our camper trailer. The battery stays connected, as does the fridge. It also runs 12 volt lights and 240 volt power points. The truck or solar charges the battery, or when plugged in, 240V does it.
Don.

[Ranga]

We have a 'Setec' device in our camper trailer. The battery stays connected, as does the fridge. It also runs 12 volt lights and 240 volt power points. The truck or solar charges the battery, or when plugged in, 240V does it.
Don.
Which model Don?

[Ranga]

Hi Ranga, as Tombie posted, you do not need a battery charger with a "SUPPLY" mode, as this will NOT charge batteries properly.

All you need to do is work out how much power you are going to be drawing from the battery while you are charging the same battery.

Then select a battery charger with at least 10 amps more charging capacity and you will then be able to charge your battery and power your accessories at the same time.

Furthermore, it is standard RV practice to simply connect the battery charger to the battery and leave it that way.

Then set up your 240vac connection as you planned and then when ever you are on mains power, the charger with automatically charge your battery and power your accessories without you needing to do anything more than connecting the mains to your camper.

If you have solar, this to simply connects directly to your camper battery and the same with power coming from the tow vehicle.

There is no need to separate anything at any time.
Thanks Tim,
I thought there was a problem with some smart chargers getting confused by the load on the battery - is that the case?

The solar panel is connected to a MorningStar PS30-M Prostar 30A regulator - I assume this doesn't need to change? This regulator displays battery voltage, solar current, and the load current. Is there anything I should look for in a charger (I notice some like the Projects 2500 have a remote display panel) or are these 3 enough? I thought perhaps an indication of charging might be useful, and considering the charger will be out of sight, the remote panel may be useful.

Finally, any particular charger you would recommend?

Thanks everyone for the advice.

[DiscoMick]

This setup works automatically in our camper with no problems. Just plug in the 240 volt, the fridge switches to 240 volts and the 240 volt charger comes on, tests the battery and charges when required. Just need the 240 volts wired correctly. We just have mains plugs in the battery box running back to an external mains plug for the power lead. Plug the fridge and charger into the mains plugs in the battery box and it works automatically.

[Ranga]

This setup works automatically in our camper with no problems. Just plug in the 240 volt, the fridge switches to 240 volts and the 240 volt charger comes on, tests the battery and charges when required. Just need the 240 volts wired correctly. We just have mains plugs in the battery box running back to an external mains plug for the power lead. Plug the fridge and charger into the mains plugs in the battery box and it works automatically.

I should have mentioned, that my fridge only runs on 12V, hence will always need to be powered from the battery.

[austastar]

Hi Ranga,
Basically the only 240V in ours comes from the inverter.
The fridge is a 12V Evercool.
The battery charger stays connected to the battery.

When bush camping, the genie gets plugged in to the charger and run as needed if driving and solar are not enough.
When staying near 240V, the charger is plugged in to an extension lead and left there.

The charger is multistage I believe, and when I bought it, the dealer said he could cut one wire and make it suitable for charging whilst there is a load on the battery. I could not see a need for that with the vehicle I had at the time, so declined the offer.
It is still unmodified and has been just fine for 6 years on the same 100A gel battery.

Cheers

[Tombie]

Our Cross-over is completely 12v powered.
The 240v feed does only 3 things.
1. Powers the charger
2. Straight through (via CB) to an external 240v socket on external
3. Supplies a 240v / USB power socket inside for appliances when hooked to main.

All other items inside and out on the Camper are powered solely by the 12v system. Including lights, fans, fridge, water pump.

All the charger does is keep charging (similar to how an alternator works in simplicity) it looks at the battery and adds power appropriately...

Recently I repurposed my Ctek MXS25 to this task when the primary unit provided with the Camper began to fail (15 years old).

Way too easy to set up [emoji6]

[Don 130]

Which model Don?

ST20
http://www.setec.com.au/pdf/ST-Series-User-Manual.pdf
Don.

[Tombie]

The Setec is very vulnerable (and bulky)
More suited to a full sized Van.

Ctek / Projecta or Traxide has a 20/30a Charger which are IP rated, more compact and better suited to Camper use..

Traxide (Tim) has a very good quality unit.. well worth consideration.. Pronautic is the brand.


A Setec is ~$500-550
A Pronautic is ~$450

The Proanutic (designed for Yachts) is also able to correctly maintain Lithium batteries so more versatile if you end up upgrading.

[Ranga]

The Proanutic (designed for Yachts) is also able to correctly maintain Lithium batteries so more versatile if you end up upgrading.

Whilst I'm sure the Pronautic is a very good unit, I can't really justify the price. My usage would be lucky to be once a year, so I'm looking for the cheapest option a the moment. Typically we're without a 240V power source, and rely on solar or the alternator via a Traxide isolator for our power. Most common use would be for rare occasions in a caravan park combined with not enough solar power.

Any entry-level recommendations?

[Blknight.aus]

if its only really fighting the fridge a 7a charger is ok. my 4 A charger stays infront of my engle.

where the loads on the battery while charging mess up some multistage chargers is when the charger is trying to switch between modes but the load is messing with the test. It'll still fall back an charge the battery but instead of going to say 100% charged you might get to 95% charged.

the final stage of charging a battery is usually done at very low current so what can happen is it will kick over to the low current rate then the fridge comes on and draws out more than the charger is putting in the battery starts to discharge and eventually the charger notices that the final charging didnt work the voltage has dropped so it will redo the test phase and then restart the charging process.

chances are you wont even notice its happening unless your one of those gauge watching anoraks who start to chase faults that dont really exisit when something doesnt look quite rught on the needles

[Tombie]

A decent Ctek is $350-400
Projecta will be a little cheaper

[Ranga]

So, to try and finish this thread up, I think for my purposes a plain little charger will suffice for those very few times that I'm unable to use solar, and 240V is present - simply to keep the battery charged, which powers the fridge and some LED lights (everything else can run off 240V).

I can't see any other advantage for my situation to use any serious smart charger. The battery in question is constantly connected to solar, which gets enough sun each day when not in use to float the battery. I'm wondering if this one Projecta Pro-Charge Battery Charger - 12 Volt, 2-8 Amp - Supercheap Auto (http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Projecta-Pro-Charge-Battery-Charger-12-Volt-2-8-Amp/292792) would do the trick?

[Tombie]

You mentioned you already own a Ctek.. what size is it?

[Ranga]

You mentioned you already own a Ctek.. what size is it?

From memory its a 15A, but I'd rather not fix that in the camper, as I tend to use it for other batteries and lend it to family and such. The best place for it in the camper wouldn;t allow easy removal. Now that I think of it, this is why I was interested in a charger with a remote panel, so I could see what was happening with the charger.

[Tombie]

Make a cradle for it and wire a couple of Anderson power poles onto it..

[Ranga]

Make a cradle for it and wire a couple of Anderson power poles onto it..

So, just to confirm, if I was to use my Ctek MXS15, it would work fine charging a battery that is also under load, i.e. the "smart charging" wouldn't get confused?

[weeds]

Whilst I'm sure the Pronautic is a very good unit, I can't really justify the price. My usage would be lucky to be once a year, so I'm looking for the cheapest option a the moment. Typically we're without a 240V power source, and rely on solar or the alternator via a Traxide isolator for our power. Most common use would be for rare occasions in a caravan park combined with not enough solar power.



Any entry-level recommendations?



I gave away the pronautic that I purchased from drivesafe.......no wonder it went so quick when I offered it up, I forgot what it was worth.

[Tombie]

So, just to confirm, if I was to use my Ctek MXS15, it would work fine charging a battery that is also under load, i.e. the "smart charging" wouldn't get confused?



Not at all....

[Mercguy]

MXS15 is enough to crank 15A continuous duty.

I've had one for over 10 years and it's seen some pretty unorthodox 'power supply' situations and not once been a problem switching modes on me.

the 'supply' mode is for when you don't have a battery, or your battery is SO dead that it needs full current supply. If you ever get to this stage with a battery it's probably got a dead cell.

Just plug it in, hook the leads up to the battery and leave it there. You don't need to do any remote monitoring. The charger has enough brains to know what to do all by itself.

[Ranga]

So, I notice my CTEK also has a temperature sensor attached at the positive clamp. If I cut the positive and negative and add anderson plugs to connect them, what do I do with the temp sensor lead? I could just not cut it and leave it attached to the positive clamp, but then the sensor will be a couple of metres from the battery, and not doing it's intended purpose of measuring the battery temperature. Will that be a problem worth worrying about?