New D4 - now the expensive bit begins.

[GregMilner]

Well, our new D4 arrives from Sydney in the next couple of weeks. So I'm using that time to make my eyes water, with some research into the bits I'm going to have to hang off it to make it touring and towing ready. I fear the calculator won't have enough digits, but here's a start...inclusive of fitting & GST.

ARB colour coded Summit Bar $3139
Safari snorkel $740
6 X Maxxis AT tyres $1749
Outback Accessories 92 litre gravity fed LR tank $1692
Outback Accessories spare wheel carrier $1835
Tekonsha brake controller $200 (just for fitting, took the old one out of the L322 just sold)

Already have a spare battery, UHF, compressor and a few other bits and pieces.
Have I missed anything essential?

[Russrobe]

Well, our new D4 arrives from Sydney in the next couple of weeks. So I'm using that time to make my eyes water, with some research into the bits I'm going to have to hang off it to make it touring and towing ready. I fear the calculator won't have enough digits, but here's a start...inclusive of fitting & GST.

ARB colour coded Summit Bar $3139
Safari snorkel $740
6 X Maxxis AT tyres $1749
Outback Accessories 92 litre gravity fed LR tank $1692
Outback Accessories spare wheel carrier $1835
Tekonsha brake controller $200 (just for fitting, took the old one out of the L322 just sold)

Already have a spare battery, UHF, compressor and a few other bits and pieces.
Have I missed anything essential?
Greg if you ask Opposite Lock to do you a deal on a package you will get better pricing. That Summit Bar price is cheap though, i thought they were more like $3500

I think i paid $4000 for:

Safari Snorkel
OA tank 92l
OA Rwc
Front runner ladder

All fitted.

I went an Arb bull bar but mostly because I could get the older version which is much cheaper.

There's a front runner platform rack on gumtree atm for $1000... bit expensive but better than the $1500 new. Would be making sure it doesn't need any work for that price though.

[GregMilner]

Yeah I'm talking to Opposite Lock in Perth about it Russ, about the only thing I can't get from them is the Summit bar, but they're sending through some images of the bars they do, so I'll see how they look.

The price of the Summit bar from ARB was confirmed by them when I went into one of their shops yesterday. Their prices for snorkel, wheel carriers and LR tanks are a bit steep though, OL seems to be cheaper on a lot of things. I'm sure if I got OL to do most of the stuff I'd get a slightly sharper price, but with $10K to shell out I'll probably spread it over the next two or three months to ease the pain a bit. (On the wallet, and domestically:-)

I'll check out that roof rack, I'm actually trying to avoid having to fit one, hoping I can put most of that kind of stuff in or on the camper trailer.

[LRD414]

..... research into the bits I'm going to have to hang off it to make it touring and towing ready ....
Already have a spare battery, UHF, compressor and a few other bits and pieces.
Have I missed anything essential?
Greg, here's a few other things to consider that are not quite as eye watering but I would consider essential for touring, obviously subject to condition of roads/tracks where you'll be travelling.

Mitch Hitch - better towing height matched to drawbar height of the camper trailer (assuming drawbar height of ~500mm). Much better ground clearance compared to using the factory tow bar.

Llams - if touring on offroad tracks with rocks and/or high crowns at greater than 50kph and normal height is not sufficient.

Mud Flaps - rear wheel arch flares will get stone blasted from front wheels. The factory mud flaps are pretty hopeless.

Stone Stomper - protects D4 rear window from getting broken by flicked stones.

Traxide Kit - purpose built kit for connecting your aux battery and provides high power connection to camper for camper battery charging.

Cheers,
Scott

[Russrobe]

Yeah I'm talking to Opposite Lock in Perth about it Russ, about the only thing I can't get from them is the Summit bar, but they're sending through some images of the bars they do, so I'll see how they look.

The price of the Summit bar from ARB was confirmed by them when I went into one of their shops yesterday. Their prices for snorkel, wheel carriers and LR tanks are a bit steep though, OL seems to be cheaper on a lot of things. I'm sure if I got OL to do most of the stuff I'd get a slightly sharper price, but with $10K to shell out I'll probably spread it over the next two or three months to ease the pain a bit. (On the wallet, and domestically:-)

I'll check out that roof rack, I'm actually trying to avoid having to fit one, hoping I can put most of that kind of stuff in or on the camper trailer.
Ah yep, if you don't think you need a 2nd spare (mine is on the platform rack) you can probably get away without it. It is handy to be able to throw extra things up there though.

The only draw back is slight wind gush sound on very windy days.

[GregMilner]

Thanks Scott, I'd forgotten about the Mitch Hitch. Another $900. (And I thought boating was expensive. B.O.A.T = Bring Over Another Thousand.)

My car comes with side steps fitted, would that obviate the need for front mud flaps?

Not too concerned with Llams at this stage, I doubt whether we'll be doing much on high crowned tracks...although I haven't driven the GCR yet.

Stone stomper...yeah, probably a good idea. (Or, flattened beer cartons gaffer taped to the back of the car. Very aesthetic.)

Traxide kit...dunno, I've already got a spare Engel battery box. And I never had trouble charging the trailer batteries using the Anderson plug at the back of my L322. Am I missing something here?

[LRD414]

My car comes with side steps fitted, would that obviate the need for front mud flaps?

Stone stomper...yeah, probably a good idea. (Or, flattened beer cartons gaffer taped to the back of the car. Very aesthetic.)

Traxide kit...dunno, I've already got a spare Engel battery box. And I never had trouble charging the trailer batteries using the Anderson plug at the back of my L322. Am I missing something here?

Side Steps - yep should protect flares I think.

Flattened beer cartons - yep would work. I assumed you had more discerning taste coming from an L322 :)

Anderson Plug - does not come standard in a D4, you have to fit it and the Traxide kit includes one. Your battery box would be just fine but still need to run a lead to the rear.

Cheers,
Scott

[LRD414]

Thanks Scott, I'd forgotten about the Mitch Hitch. Another $900.

There is cheaper ways, eg just use standard hitch and a raised tongue.
But that still leaves a clearance issue when ramping over things offroad.
Depends on where you go of course.

Scott

[GregMilner]

I never bothered with stone stompers (or flattened beer cartons for that matter:-) with the L322 as our Pioneer camper seems to deflect everything well down. A lot campers have a flexible stone deflector that acts more like a trampoline and bounces rocks straight back at the car, but the Pioneer has a hard front stone guard, so nothing seems to bounce up. Having said that, I know what's going to happen now...

It's a simple enough matter to fit an Anderson plug, I'll get my regular Auto Spark guys to do that when they fit the brake controller I've saved.

[Russrobe]

Outback Accessories just sent me a msg, they're looking for a car to develop a dual rwc next month but I'd say they would have to pry the keys from your hands to take it for a week.

Will be discounted and much cheaper than a Kaymar I'd say if anyone else is interested though.

[GregMilner]

I presume they won't be developing in Perth though?

[Russrobe]

I presume they won't be developing in Perth though?
Yes, their workshop is in Perth...

[GregMilner]

Yes, of course they are, I was thinking of Opposite Lock. Migh be worth doing a deal with Outback Accessories then:-)

[GregMilner]

Opposite Lock seem to do a pretty good bullbar in steel, although not much cheaper than ARB's when you ad foglights and colour coding, about $2900.

[eddomak]

Not too concerned with Llams at this stage, I doubt whether we'll be doing much on high crowned tracks...although I haven't driven the GCR yet.


The IID Tool could be worth it for you - diagnostics, fault clearing, and for those occasions you want it - raising & lowering suspension.

[GregMilner]

Yes, their workshop is in Perth...

Just called them Russ, yes they want the car for a week to fit a twin wheel carrier, replacing the standard bumper with a steel one. They've offered a discount down to about $1500 including fitting. I'm just not convinced I'd want all that extra weight hanging off the back of the car, the twin carrier alone (without wheels/jerry cans) is 75kg, against only 26kg for the single one. I think I'd rather just the single one, and carry a spare tyre carcase on the roof or the camper trailer boat loader.

[Russrobe]

Just called them Russ, yes they want the car for a week to fit a twin wheel carrier, replacing the standard bumper with a steel one. They've offered a discount down to about $1500 including fitting. I'm just not convinced I'd want all that extra weight hanging off the back of the car, the twin carrier alone (without wheels/jerry cans) is 75kg, against only 26kg for the single one. I think I'd rather just the single one, and carry a spare tyre carcase on the roof or the camper trailer boat loader.

Yep it's a fine line between adding 30kg to the roof for a platform rack to carry a spare and a few other things or add the extra 50kg to the rear.

Only 20kg difference really and whether adding the dead weight to the roof or the bumper is more beneficial is questionable seeing as the roof will create wind drag too.

Personal preference again i think.

[GregMilner]

It's more a question of weight distribution I think. The camper puts 200kg plus on the tow hitch already, add the weight of a wheel carrier plus wheels and you're talking big numbers and a lot of pressure on the suspension etc.

[catch-22]

Hey Greg.....Do you really need any of that apart from the brake controller and second battery (with battery manager)?

[Russrobe]

Yep whereas if you weren't towing you would nearly be better off with the spare on the rear. Gives you more options for roof top tents and so forth.

[rar110]

I'm not a big fan of the extra fuel tank. The knock in effect of having to buy another tyre carrier solution, weight etc diminish the benefits. You could save $1000s by carrying jerrys on the camper.

[rar110]

Just my opinion. I'd rather have an IID tool.

[Russrobe]

Good point, if your camper can take an extra 100kgs.. And be weight distributed to do so. We saved thousands x10 by not having to buy a camper =D

[GregMilner]

Well, it's all a judgement call really.

SWMBO rules out the rooftop tent, for various reasons including not wanting to climb down in the middle of the night for a 'comfort stop'. And no hot shower, kitchen etc etc. (Rule 1: the woman is always right. Rule 2. If the woman is wrong, refer to Rule 1.)

Towing two tons of camper trailer makes it harder to stop when skippy makes a suicide attempt.

D4 tank is small, not a problem if you stick to main drags but towing uses more fuel and putting jerry cans on the roof or the front of the camper doesn't thrill me. I agree the IID tool might be useful though.

[Russrobe]

Well, it's all a judgement call really.

SWMBO rules out the rooftop tent, for various reasons including not wanting to climb down in the middle of the night for a 'comfort stop'. And no hot shower, kitchen etc etc. (Rule 1: the woman is always right. Rule 2. If the woman is wrong, refer to Rule 1.)

Towing two tons of camper trailer makes it harder to stop when skippy makes a suicide attempt.

D4 tank is small, not a problem if you stick to main drags but towing uses more fuel and putting jerry cans on the roof or the front of the camper doesn't thrill me. I agree the IID tool might be useful though.
Agreed i found it was about 30l too small even for 2 day trips and jerry cans suck for all the reasons you mentioned.

Plus you'll love not having to visit the bowser very often I'm up to 1100kms since the last fill with a half a tank to go =D

[Disco-tastic]

Just me but I'd go the single wheel carrier and the roof cage with carcass when necessary, because:
a) you can take the roof cage off and not carry everything around all the time (I suppose you could take the second swing arm off too, though it's harder);
b) the roof cage can carry other things;
c) you only have to open one swing arm every time you want to use the boot. One arm is annoying enough...

Or you could mount the 2nd spare to the trailer.

Either way it's fun buying stuff! :D

Cheers

Dan

[ATH]

Hi Greg.
I'm going through the same thing having just bought a new D4. I'm waiting for Rijidij to complete testing of their new single carrier for the vehicle, as I've had one of theirs on the Defender and it is excellent.
Tow hitch, I'm not paying for something costing 7 - 900 bucks when their website says "check for any casting imperfections etc etc" !!
Are they kidding? Why don't they do that before packing it?
I'll get an adjustable one from Trailer Parts for far less which will do the job except may scrape a bit in the real rough stuff.
I'll send the Cook ahead with a shovel to smooth the path...... :p
Dual Battery system: Call Kevin at Rovertech as they do a new system developed in WA which also takes power from solars.
He's an honest bloke and will let you know what's best I'm sure.
I'm not made of money so I'll gradually get what I need as opposed to what I want. :(
Good luck.
AlanH.

[Chops]

Opposite Lock seem to do a pretty good bullbar in steel, although not much cheaper than ARB's when you ad foglights and colour coding, about $2900.

I have two issues with the OL bull bar.
One is the fact the original driving lights don't fit :mad:,, therefore they supply new lights that do,,, and they are crap,,, :angrylock: even.
Number two,,, if you have cameras on the front of your car, they don't have inclusion for them on their bar, they told me they didn't even know the car came with them :confused:. Our original front bumper is with them in Melbourne so they can design fitment for them.

Still waiting patiently :whistling:

[GregMilner]

I have two issues with the OL bull bar.
One is the fact the original driving lights don't fit :mad:,, therefore they supply new lights that do,,, and they are crap,,, :angrylock: even.
Number two,,, if you have cameras on the front of your car, they don't have inclusion for them on their bar, they told me they didn't even know the car came with them :confused:. Our original front bumper is with them in Melbourne so they can design fitment for them.

Still waiting patiently :whistling:

I don't have cameras at front of car, should that make a difference?

[Chops]

No, it wont worry you at all Greg.
It was part of a package that we got when we ordered the car, which was already loaded up with many extra features. For us it was the only car we could get with an E-Diff that we could adjust colour, inside and out. Some of the features we couldn't have reversed, but we were able to stop a few things which was good. (the only thing SWMBO wouldn't let me "add on" was the good leather with heated seats :( ,,,, she now regrets that decision ;) )

[Tombie]

Hi Greg.

I'm going through the same thing having just bought a new D4. I'm waiting for Rijidij to complete testing of their new single carrier for the vehicle, as I've had one of theirs on the Defender and it is excellent.

Tow hitch, I'm not paying for something costing 7 - 900 bucks when their website says "check for any casting imperfections etc etc" !!

Are they kidding? Why don't they do that before packing it?

I'll get an adjustable one from Trailer Parts for far less which will do the job except may scrape a bit in the real rough stuff.

I'll send the Cook ahead with a shovel to smooth the path...... :p

Dual Battery system: Call Kevin at Rovertech as they do a new system developed in WA which also takes power from solars.

He's an honest bloke and will let you know what's best I'm sure.

I'm not made of money so I'll gradually get what I need as opposed to what I want. :(

Good luck.

AlanH.



Check casting refers to the casting on the Vehicle - not on their welded product!

Changing the head of the factory tow hitch with a different height one renders its rating lower... so that doesn't work!

[rar110]

Well, it's all a judgement call really.



SWMBO rules out the rooftop tent, for various reasons including not wanting to climb down in the middle of the night for a 'comfort stop'. And no hot shower, kitchen etc etc. (Rule 1: the woman is always right. Rule 2. If the woman is wrong, refer to Rule 1.)



Towing two tons of camper trailer makes it harder to stop when skippy makes a suicide attempt.



D4 tank is small, not a problem if you stick to main drags but towing uses more fuel and putting jerry cans on the roof or the front of the camper doesn't thrill me. I agree the IID tool might be useful though.



Your call. But I'm sure you know there's less than one Jerry difference btw the D4 & L322fuel tank. The extra tank gives extra range but I question the benefit.

[Russrobe]

Mud flaps, rock sliders and compressor plate are what I am sorting out atm.

[cjc_td5]

A lot of the stuff you mention is peace of mind as much as anything. Basic mods I would suggest are
- AT tyres (I have the 19" Hankooks which are going great).
- Rods or LLAMS.
- Mudflaps
- Cargo barrier
- Compressor guard.
- Dual battery etc.

I'll be doing some Beadell roads this year in this configuration.

I have the OEM side steps which provide some stone protection but certainly are not sliders. You still need front mud flaps as the front wheels do a magnificent job of flicking mud up to neatly land on the step under the front doors....

[Russrobe]

Cjc has the mud flaps we need if you search mud flaps you will find the thread. Even sand manages to stick to the side of mine...

[Russrobe]

I was going to go without rock sliders for our 6 week trip in April. Reasons i ordered them were.
A. To easily get out of the car without constantly dropping to normal height to make it easier on compressor.

B. For protection during muddy river crossings.

C. For the exhaust jack i bought which could slip out and crush unprotected sills.

I'd put them on the list but last for touring and first if you plan on attacking hard tracks. I

[ATH]

"Check casting refers to the casting on the Vehicle - not on their welded product!"
The website doesn't read like that to me so I'll stick with my interpretation thnx. ;)
Does it also come in a box made in Oz?
AlanH.

[GregMilner]

One reason I'm a bit keen on getting the RWC is to avoid having to empty the back of the car when having to change out a blown tyre. Having done that a couple of times in the old Sport on the GRR, with not one but three road trains roaring past and covering everything including us in a thick layer of red dust, I don't want to repeat the experience if possible.
I suppose I could carry the spares on top of the the CT, which is fine except for when you're not towing it, on a day trip somewhere.

[weeds]

Pretty sure my mate around the corner has overcome access to the winch by installing a 3/8? uni joint and extension so that it sits close to the rear door.

[LRD414]

"Check casting refers to the casting on the Vehicle - not on their welded product!"
The website doesn't read like that to me so I'll stick with my interpretation thnx.
Alan, your website interpretation is of course your choice but it's not matched by reality.

Tombie is speaking as an owner of the product, as am I.
I have installed mine and my fathers, plus two friends have the same product.
In all of these cases (at least) the casting imperfections are on the vehicle recovery eye only.
Removal of high points by filing or dremmel provides a sufficiently smooth surface for installation of the poly bush that goes in the recovery eye.
The Mitch Hitch is welded (not cast).

Scott

[shanegtr]

Alan, your website interpretation is of course your choice but it's not matched by reality.

Tombie is speaking as an owner of the product, as am I.
I have installed mine and my fathers, plus two friends have the same product.
In all of these cases (at least) the casting imperfections are on the vehicle recovery eye only.
Removal of high points by filing or dremmel provides a sufficiently smooth surface for installation of the poly bush that goes in the recovery eye.
The Mitch Hitch is welded (not cast).

Scott
Totally agree, theres not worries with imperfections on the mitch hitch itself.

[ATH]

Why isn't the website more specific then about where these "imperfections or dags" are?
I still can't see 700 + bucks worth of value in something probably made in China out of a bit of square tube and flat plate. Must be the "Made in Oz" packaging....:D
AlanH.

[Shakey]

Mustn't let the CFO see this post. Busy convincing her to change the D2a for a newish D4 and have mentioned accessories in passing but not to this level of detail!

[LandyAndy]

Mustn't let the CFO see this post. Busy convincing her to change the D2a for a newish D4 and have mentioned accessories in passing but not to this level of detail!

If it has no mods,budget on $10K to fit it out;);););););););)
Then start talking marine for everything else,ie BOAT!!!!!
Andrew

[Tombie]

Why isn't the website more specific then about where these "imperfections or dags" are?

I still can't see 700 + bucks worth of value in something probably made in China out of a bit of square tube and flat plate. Must be the "Made in Oz" packaging....:D

AlanH.



Small volume, Aussie fabricated, Complianced and certified (there's the main cost)...
Removes issues of D3/RRS unable to remove spare with stock hitch attached (priceless)
Rated for 3,500 at pin height of 500mm which is important as using non-std height hitches in the factory receiver can impact rating...

How about dropping the whole "probably from China" BS

Seems VERY specific about where the imperfections are actually.. Check for any casting imperfections and dags AND install wedge... that's correct use English!!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/627.jpg

[Russrobe]

Yes please don't bag them out, I might need one of those if I decide to become one of those people who tow a trailer one day! They're the only choice we have... And they frequent this forum..

[Trngia]

I have a well kitted out D3 and would I do it again, no... I would seriously consider every add on before putting it on. Every modification can cause issues and ultimately make it harder to get to fix issues whilst out travelling. My body would have been off twice in the last 4 months but would have been a huge job due to what I have bolted and wired on. Due to the niche expertise of some mechanics in SA and TAS I have managed to carry on without a body off but very lucky and certainly the dealers it has been to have said it's a body off job. I believe the D3 and D4 are very capable stick standard and then some add ons make a big difference and others just add weight. Worth thinking about before going too far :-)

[jon3950]

I believe the D3 and D4 are very capable stick standard and then some add ons make a big difference and others just add weight. Worth thinking about before going too far :-)

This is very good advice.

Cheers,
Jon

[jon3950]

Small volume, Aussie fabricated, Complianced and certified (there's the main cost)...

How about dropping the whole "probably from China" BS

Trouble is people see these things as just a few bits of steel welded together and have no appreciation of the work that goes in to designing them, certifying them and ensuring that the quality of the manufacture is consistent with what is required for any compliance or potential legal problems if there is a failure. These things are not just something knocked up in someone's shed.

Even if they did come from China, all those costs still exist. Unless you have significant infrastructure already in place, it is actually very difficult to get something like this made in China to the required quality - regardless of cost.

Cheers,
Jon

[ATH]

I made the "probably made in China" crack not so much from ignorance, but from experience.
For sheer hypocrisy you'd have to go some to beat the director of a major supplier of 4by gear who told me he hated the fact so many jobs which could have been done by "Australian boys and girls" were taken to Asia and then starting telling me about the factory the company he was involved with were building in Thailand to do exactly the same thing. :mad:
It's great to hear that something is still made here and it's a pity more isn't, but I still cannot personally see the value in it.
I think the same result can be got by an adjustable hitch installed into the LR receiver and then set to the same height as the Mitch, for much less cost.
Their hitch does look nice though......:p
AlanH.

[Tombie]

The major you're referring to? 3 initials? I asked him about this in detail also one day.

Basically informed that only specific products are made there - those that the Public are no longer willing to pay Aussie pricing for.
Eg. Springs for a 40/60 series Cruiser.

[shanegtr]

It's great to hear that something is still made here and it's a pity more isn't, but I still cannot personally see the value in it.
I think the same result can be got by an adjustable hitch installed into the LR receiver and then set to the same height as the Mitch, for much less cost.
Their hitch does look nice though......:p
AlanH.
If your not planning on towing off road then theres probably very little value in one. It certainly gets rid of the main plough like feature of the original

[Trngia]

I have a Mitch hitch fitted towing my Drifta DOT6 trailer and would not go back to the original hitch. My trailer would never ride level and even with a raised hitch it was still a pain trying to get the jockey wheel down without going into off road suspension height. The Mitch hitch just works so well in comparison and access to the spare wheel is a bonus. Even when not off road it came in useful 2 days ago trying to get into a small town service station with a big kerb and steep down. Would have certainly dragged the original hitch if I hadn't had the Mitch hitch.

If I were to buy a D4 which is my likely next upgrade I would go for.
- Mitch hitch
- electric brake controller
- roof rack platform or like I have now roof box and cage for the Oztent.
- carry extra fuel on the trailer so no long range tank or add gravity fed in cargo area for long trips if required.
- no kamar bar or wheel on the back
- probably no bull bar although would consider it
- discreet winch if no bull bar
- llams I have found useful but I would consider GOE rods as an alternative.
- Drifta Drawer system and drop down fridge slide with socket extension for access to spare wheel winch. Would consider a water tank in the back of the drawers if I didn't have the trailer
- secondary battery. I currently have one in the cargo area but uses up valuable space.
- compressor protection plate
- I currently have rock sliders and they have come in useful a couple of times but would think seriously about what I was doing before adding this extra weight on. Not needed for most things. Does make a handy step up for sorting out stuff in the roof box though.
- decent AT LT tyres
- half size cargo barrier
- have a compressor under the bonnet BT would probably add into the drawer system or even just have a decent portable one with an Anderson Connector on etc.

[Graeme]

The D4's isn't the plough that the D3's was and doesn't have the weakness either. However it's still attached by the same method so make sure the safety chains are though the tow hook rather than the little eyes if towing anything heavy.

[GregMilner]

Okay, so after much thought, and advice on here, these are the 'must-have' additions, followed by the 'maybe later' ones:

1) Safari snorkel
2) Outback Accessories single rear wheel carrier
3) Outback Accessories 92 litre gravity fed LR tank
4) Brake controller (already have one)
5) 6 X Maxxis LT tyres
6) diagnostic tool
7) fitting of UHF (already have one), aerial mounted one side of the bonnet.
8) front mud flaps (don't know if the car already has them, haven't seen it yet.)
9) compressor plate

Maybe laters:

1) Mitch hitch, unless I can find a suitable high rise hitch that fits into the standard LR one
2) bull bar
3) drawers
4) roof rack

On the right track? If possible I want to avoid making body-off repairs a PITA.

[Tombie]

Almost all accessories don't impact "body off"
What does slow the process is wiring paths etc...

[Shakey]

I have a Mitch hitch fitted towing my Drifta DOT6 trailer and would not go back to the original hitch. My trailer would never ride level and even with a raised hitch it was still a pain trying to get the jockey wheel down without going into off road suspension height. The Mitch hitch just works so well in comparison and access to the spare wheel is a bonus. Even when not off road it came in useful 2 days ago trying to get into a small town service station with a big kerb and steep down. Would have certainly dragged the original hitch if I hadn't had the Mitch hitch.

If I were to buy a D4 which is my likely next upgrade I would go for.
- Mitch hitch
- electric brake controller
- roof rack platform or like I have now roof box and cage for the Oztent.
- carry extra fuel on the trailer so no long range tank or add gravity fed in cargo area for long trips if required.
- no kamar bar or wheel on the back
- probably no bull bar although would consider it
- discreet winch if no bull bar
- llams I have found useful but I would consider GOE rods as an alternative.
- Drifta Drawer system and drop down fridge slide with socket extension for access to spare wheel winch. Would consider a water tank in the back of the drawers if I didn't have the trailer
- secondary battery. I currently have one in the cargo area but uses up valuable space.
- compressor protection plate
- I currently have rock sliders and they have come in useful a couple of times but would think seriously about what I was doing before adding this extra weight on. Not needed for most things. Does make a handy step up for sorting out stuff in the roof box though.
- decent AT LT tyres
- half size cargo barrier
- have a compressor under the bonnet BT would probably add into the drawer system or even just have a decent portable one with an Anderson Connector on etc.
Not a water tank where seat 6 and 7 go Rich?

[Russrobe]

Bull bar is one of those things, you don't want it until it's too late and your cars written off, like my D3 was after owning it for 2 weeks...

If that were to happen now after the hundreds of hours work and $10k I've chucked at it I'd be gutted.

So glad i moved by spare wheel out from underneath before i destroyed the tyre. It used to get smashed hard while off road. So badly I left it flat and half expected it to bubble in the sidewall when i inflated it after how many hits it copped. Not to mention that useless wheel winder.

Much more clearance in the rear now too. Even with the extra 92l tank

[Trngia]

Not a water tank where seat 6 and 7 go Rich?



Yup a water tank or if without trailer a poly fuel tank. Would likely remove the 3rd row seats anyway.

Lots of food for thought and so many options :-)

[Shakey]

Bull bar is one of those things, you don't want it until it's too late and your cars written off, like my D3 was after owning it for 2 weeks...

If that were to happen now after the hundreds of hours work and $10k I've chucked at it I'd be gutted.

So glad i moved by spare wheel out from underneath before i destroyed the tyre. It used to get smashed hard while off road. Not to mention that useless wheel winder.
Yes we hit a roo whilst I was convincing the CFO for the 50th time why we needed one. Minimal damage fortunately but funds were swiftly released.

[Shakey]

Yup a water tank or if without trailer a poly fuel tank. Would likely remove the 3rd row seats anyway.

Lots of food for thought and so many options :-)
I was thinking one of those poly tanks for the 2nd row foot well...

[Russrobe]

I was thinking one of those poly tanks for the 2nd row foot well...

I thought about one of those but they're expensive, mean you have to setup permanent pumps of which if leak, could be bad news. Only suitable mounting place I could think of for the spout(the rear plastic moulds) are full of electric connections beneath.

2x20L water cans and a portable pump is much easier...

If someone has a good setup though i'd love to copy it!

[Shakey]

1) Mitch hitch, unless I can find a suitable high rise hitch that fits into the standard LR one
2) bull bar
3) drawers
4) roof rack

On the right track? If possible I want to avoid making body-off repairs a PITA.

I'm going with a roof rack as one of our first (we have some light weight camp boxed and mattress that can go up top)

I will probably get a custom made unit with the fridge drop slide we have, and a pull out table like trngia says but rather than drawers go with a slide for front runner wolf boxes. We have had both drawers and a slide for camp boxes in the D2 and it works much better for us.

[Russrobe]

Once the spare wheels gone from underneath, you could fit a one way water valve in the winders place though. That way if a water bladder sitting where the 3rd row seat was leaks, it will just drain out the bottom. Would have to be raised on a false floor though. Is there much room gained by removing the rear seats? looks like bugger all by the time you fit a false floor in it's place. They're only a few inches wide....

This was my plan, but then I looked at how much room the 3rd row take up and it's next to nothing.

[Shakey]

Once the spare wheels gone from underneath, you could fit a one way water valve in the winders place though. That way if a water bladder sitting where the 3rd row seat was leaks, it will just drain out the bottom. Would have to be raised on a false floor though. Is there much room gained by removing the rear seats? looks like bugger all by the time you fit a false floor in it's place. They're only a few inches wide....

This was my plan, but then I looked at how much room the 3rd row take up and it's next to nothing.
That sounds interesting. My research suggested they are about 75kg so with a drawer unit it may be a better space to store infrequently used items

[Russrobe]

That sounds interesting. My research suggested they are about 75kg so with a drawer unit it may be a better space to store infrequently used items

Jake, after a good search, I stand corrected, it's an awkward shape space, but someone managed to fit 50L of diesel into that space!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-4/128723-remove-3rd-row-seats-4.html

Wish he'd posted who made the tank....

[Trngia]

That sounds interesting. My research suggested they are about 75kg so with a drawer unit it may be a better space to store infrequently used items



Yup. That sounds about right. And if you don't use them 75kg is a decent weight to save. I know in the Drifta drawers they build access holes under the drawers so U can use this area for infrequently used items which there always seems to be quite a few of on a long trip.

I wouldn't remove the dust cover though to the spare wheel or it could get a bit of the red dust in.

I think Gordon from GOE uses his for fuel and has about 75L if I recall from reading previous posts.

[Russrobe]

Less impressed now, it uses the 3rd row foot well too, which most of us already use for storage via the back seat so really you're only adding about 25L of storage space to what you can already access.

[LRD414]

The 3rd row seats only weigh around 40-45kg. I weighed them when removing my fathers. I think the reported 75kg was not confirmed and then repeated in different posts.

He uses the space for infrequently used items via holes in the bottom of the Drifta drawer unit as mentioned above.

Scott

[LandyAndy]

I made a rear cargo unit with slider for my D4,used it once.I removed the rear seats,and found that my 80lt engel sits nicely across the rear,no need for a slide just open the door top.Not ideal,but it works.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/566.jpg (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/LandyAndy_2006/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160829_091552_zps5mvcrqke.jpg.html)
Andrew

[Meken]

I'd be putting the techonsha on gumtree & get a tow pro elite - I had a P3 before and the tow pro is so much better & less intrusive

[Russrobe]

I made a rear cargo unit with slider for my D4,used it once.I removed the rear seats,and found that my 80lt engel sits nicely across the rear,no need for a slide just open the door top.Not ideal,but it works.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/566.jpg (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/LandyAndy_2006/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160829_091552_zps5mvcrqke.jpg.html)
Andrew
Yeah Andy I'm with you on that one. If there's one thing I know I can save money on and atleast put to the bottom of the list it's drawers and a fridge slide... One of the main reasons I wanted the D4 was for better access.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/567.jpg

I managed to fit everything in here over xmas, for 5 days without using any other part of the car accept the roof rack. When we go touring without the giant fluffy one, everything on top of here will be spread across the cabin leaving me with easy access to more common used items in the small case and full access to the fridge and 40l of water.

Drawers are handy for ease, but there's no stretch to access a fridge at normal height so they go to the bottom of the list for me, allowing the money to be spent on things like sliders =D

[Meken]

And a compressor guard

[LandyAndy]

I'd be putting the techonsha on gumtree & get a tow pro elite - I had a P3 before and the tow pro is so much better & less intrusive

X2.
I had a P3 in the D2.Have the Tow Pro in the D4,towing the same heavy camper trailer with both vehicles the Tow Pro is much more responsive.
Andrew

[ATH]

Where did you buy that fish Andrew? :D
AlanH.

[rar110]

I have a Mitch hitch fitted towing my Drifta DOT6 trailer and would not go back to the original hitch. My trailer would never ride level and even with a raised hitch it was still a pain trying to get the jockey wheel down without going into off road suspension height. The Mitch hitch just works so well in comparison and access to the spare wheel is a bonus. Even when not off road it came in useful 2 days ago trying to get into a small town service station with a big kerb and steep down. Would have certainly dragged the original hitch if I hadn't had the Mitch hitch.

If I were to buy a D4 which is my likely next upgrade I would go for.
- Mitch hitch
- electric brake controller
- roof rack platform or like I have now roof box and cage for the Oztent.
- carry extra fuel on the trailer so no long range tank or add gravity fed in cargo area for long trips if required.
- no kamar bar or wheel on the back
- probably no bull bar although would consider it
- discreet winch if no bull bar
- llams I have found useful but I would consider GOE rods as an alternative.
- Drifta Drawer system and drop down fridge slide with socket extension for access to spare wheel winch. Would consider a water tank in the back of the drawers if I didn't have the trailer
- secondary battery. I currently have one in the cargo area but uses up valuable space.
- compressor protection plate
- I currently have rock sliders and they have come in useful a couple of times but would think seriously about what I was doing before adding this extra weight on. Not needed for most things. Does make a handy step up for sorting out stuff in the roof box though.
- decent AT LT tyres
- half size cargo barrier
- have a compressor under the bonnet BT would probably add into the drawer system or even just have a decent portable one with an Anderson Connector on etc.



I agree.

[LandyAndy]

Where did you buy that fish Andrew? :D
AlanH.
Out of the water mate,Pelican Point in Carnarvon,keep going past the mile jetty until the end,nice place to fish.
Andrew

[GregMilner]

The Tekonsha I already have seems to have worked fine for several years for what we do, so I'll keep it for the time being and save a few hundred for other things.

[rar110]

I'd buy
- GOEs, because it opens up 18s,
- 18" tyres, probably 265/60s 697s or anything with at least 114 load rating,
- compressor guard, no brainer on a D4,
- IIDTOOL,
- Dual battery controller, drive safe or redarc,
- towpro,
- ARB compressor to fit under the bonnet,
- remap to reduce effect of EGR,
- mitchitch,
- led lighting on the top tailgate,
- Scotts battery voltage monitor,
- drifta pull out kitchen if going without camper,
- drifta fridge cabinet,
- D4 must have rear diff lock,
- pioneer roof rack for spare tyre, Jerry holder and oztent if not taking camper.

THATS IT.

No bullbar as don't drive early or late. And only ever hit a roo after dark.

No extra tank as I did the Simpson with 60lt Army 110 stock fuel tank ok with jerrys. I don't want to carry the extraordinary capacity for most of my driving. Many like to. I'm happy to buy fuel at higher prices in remote communities - it's still cheaper than a extra fuel tank.

I don't think there's any doubt that 18" tyres are better than 19s or 20s in an outback situation. You get more cushioning and less stress on suspension than on a 19 or 20 tyre. And you get a stronger range of tyre. And If you destroy a 265/60/18, you are more likely to find a replacement than in a 19" or 20" tyre.

But it depends on what you're doing and your needs. The above are my wish list.

[LandyAndy]

The Tekonsha I already have seems to have worked fine for several years for what we do, so I'll keep it for the time being and save a few hundred for other things.

Greg,before it gets installed have a good read of the D4 electric trailer brake instal in the stickies at the top.Very important how its wired,you probably are up to speed having a newish FFR,doesnt hurt pointing it out.
ENJOY
Andrew

[Shakey]

- Scotts battery voltage monitor.

What's that/how is it different to a dual battery setup?

[rar110]

What's that/how is it different to a dual battery setup?



It's just a digital display to see how your voltage in your cranking and second battery are going in terms of voltage levels. Drivesafe's system is a series of light flashes rather than a digital display to see how the 2nd battery voltage is going. It's a nice to have when you're watching this as your fridge is getting slower and the kids keep opening car doors (the later drawing on the cranking battery).

[LRD414]

It's just a digital display to see how your voltage in your cranking and second battery are going in terms of voltage levels.
It's very simple but I find it quite useful.
Voltage can be read without waking up the vehicle so provides a more accurate indication of SoC.
Key point being that it can be read from outside.
The switch allows checking of either battery and turning it off when not away on trips.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/560.jpg

The little trim panel made it an easy mod to do and also cheap to remove if ever required by replacing just that piece.

Cheers,
Scott

[DiscoJeffster]

I'd be putting the techonsha on gumtree & get a tow pro elite - I had a P3 before and the tow pro is so much better & less intrusive



I second that. Tow Pro Elite is so easy to use, auto calibrating etc.

[GregMilner]

Andrew I sure will, and pointing it out to the guys at Autospark.

[Babs]

Alan, your website interpretation is of course your choice but it's not matched by reality.



Tombie is speaking as an owner of the product, as am I.

I have installed mine and my fathers, plus two friends have the same product.

In all of these cases (at least) the casting imperfections are on the vehicle recovery eye only.

Removal of high points by filing or dremmel provides a sufficiently smooth surface for installation of the poly bush that goes in the recovery eye.

The Mitch Hitch is welded (not cast).



Scott



You can't go past Mitch Hitch. I bought the adjustable before finding out about Mitch Hitch, I rectified that mistake quick smart.

The Mitch Hitch is fantastic.

[Redback]

I'd buy
- GOEs, because it opens up 18s,
- 18" tyres, probably 265/60s 697s or anything with at least 114 load rating,
- compressor guard, no brainer on a D4,
- IIDTOOL,
- Dual battery controller, drive safe or redarc,
- towpro,
- ARB compressor to fit under the bonnet,
- remap to reduce effect of EGR,
- mitchitch,
- led lighting on the top tailgate,
- Scotts battery voltage monitor,
- drifta pull out kitchen if going without camper,
- drifta fridge cabinet,
- D4 must have rear diff lock,
- pioneer roof rack for spare tyre, Jerry holder and oztent if not taking camper.

THATS IT.

No bullbar as don't drive early or late. And only ever hit a roo after dark.

No extra tank as I did the Simpson with 60lt Army 110 stock fuel tank ok with jerrys. I don't want to carry the extraordinary capacity for most of my driving. Many like to. I'm happy to buy fuel at higher prices in remote communities - it's still cheaper than a extra fuel tank.

I don't think there's any doubt that 18" tyres are better than 19s or 20s in an outback situation. You get more cushioning and less stress on suspension than on a 19 or 20 tyre. And you get a stronger range of tyre. And If you destroy a 265/60/18, you are more likely to find a replacement than in a 19" or 20" tyre.

But it depends on what you're doing and your needs. The above are my wish list.

You'll find that the D4 will use more fuel than your 110 in sand and offroad for that matter, especially when loaded, so you'll still need those jerries if you're doing anything similar to the simpson.

[rhinosm]

We did Simpson last year, Birdsville to Poppel along Hay River Track to Jervois Station.
I have std tank, plus 3 Jerry cans, used 2 of them.
Also I was towing a trailer.
Like many others I do one long desert trip per year and don't want a long range tank and RWC.
This year we are planning to travel to Alice, turn left and head to Marble Bar, drop down south a bit and back into S.A. visit APY lands, and home, over about 4 weeks.
I'm contemplating a 50L BOAB tank inside,:o, yes ventilation, plus a few Jerry cans. Mr Funnel will be handy.
Research and deep contemplation is ongoing.

[Russrobe]

Surprised nobody else seems to think it's a big deal having the spare on the rear to prevent destroying it. I'm guessing most of you are running 265 60s and not 285s. Exponentially more important if you only plan on taking a 2nd spare tyre carcase because good luck changing a 18" tyre without a tyre fitting machine.

[GregMilner]

Agree entirely. In my old RRS I was always a bit worried about the spare slung under the car on rough roads, although I've never heard of anyone destroying one because of that.
But having to empty the back of the car to lower it down, change a wheel and put the flat one back up in its pozzie and load the car up again, on a stinking hot day somewhere on the GRR with road trains going past every ten minutes - as happened a few years ago - kind of put me off the whole experience. Thus my plan to put a RWC on the new D4. (When it finally arrives - now pushed out to the first week of March.)

[Redback]

Surprised nobody else seems to think it's a big deal having the spare on the rear to prevent destroying it. I'm guessing most of you are running 265 60s and not 285s. Exponentially more important if you only plan on taking a 2nd spare tyre carcase because good luck changing a 18" tyre without a tyre fitting machine.

Yep would be impossible with the R&R or Tyre Pliers.

We carry two spares(dual wheel carriers) we also have the same size tyre on the camper, so the spare on that can be used as an emergency spare, I'm thinking of carrying a carcase also, as the trailer has steel rims, so easy to change.

[Russrobe]

Agree entirely. In my old RRS I was always a bit worried about the spare slung under the car on rough roads, although I've never heard of anyone destroying one because of that.
But having to empty the back of the car to lower it down, change a wheel and put the flat one back up in its pozzie and load the car up again, on a stinking hot day somewhere on the GRR with road trains going past every ten minutes - as happened a few years ago - kind of put me off the whole experience. Thus my plan to put a RWC on the new D4. (When it finally arrives - now pushed out to the first week of March.)
Yup also good reasons Greg. It's clearly not AS big of a deal with the 265s though. My 285 spare was a great big sand anchor.

[ATH]

I too intend eventually getting a single wheel rear carrier for the D4 and have never considered having 2 hanging off the back.
After around 18 -20 years of travelling many roads including the GRR and many much more remote roads, I can't even remember the last puncture we had.
I never travel on dodgy tyres and have for years carried 2 inner tubes (16' wheels) to possibly assist if a hole was hard to fix. We would rather get new tyres and flog off the ones replaced to offset the cost a bit than do what another club member does and run on crap he's had in the back yard for years.... and has suffered blowouts completely stopping him and damaging his trailer because of it!
I think our way, although more expensive in the short term is safer and with less speed plus lowering pressures and reasonably careful driving has helped and that's the way I intend to continue.
Just checked a quote I had from one well known supplier of 4by stuff for the fitting of a SWC .... nearly 2 grand for something with no manufacturers name? Surely for that sort of money someone will admit to making it? ;)
Not for me thnx., I'll get one from a company that puts it's name on its product.
AlanH.

[Russrobe]

I too intend eventually getting a single wheel rear carrier for the D4 and have never considered having 2 hanging off the back.
After around 18 -20 years of travelling many roads including the GRR and many much more remote roads, I can't even remember the last puncture we had.
I never travel on dodgy tyres and have for years carried 2 inner tubes (16' wheels) to possibly assist if a hole was hard to fix. We would rather get new tyres and flog off the ones replaced to offset the cost a bit than do what another club member does and run on crap he's had in the back yard for years.... and has suffered blowouts completely stopping him and damaging his trailer because of it!
I think our way, although more expensive in the short term is safer and with less speed plus lowering pressures and reasonably careful driving has helped and that's the way I intend to continue.
Just checked a quote I had from one well known supplier of 4by stuff for the fitting of a SWC .... nearly 2 grand for something with no manufacturers name? Surely for that sort of money someone will admit to making it? ;)
Not for me thnx., I'll get one from a company that puts it's name on its product.
AlanH.
Alan if that was OL it is probably the Outback Accessories unit and would be more OLs sales technique(probably because they want to imply it's their own when it's not is all i can assume) than it is the manufacturers. $2k is expensive though. You could go Front Runner or Rijidij.

I was a bit out off at first too until poking around their website, reviews and locally made.

[laughto]

My 2c worth for what it is worth.........

Dual battery using Traxide battery isolator. Traxide seems to be worthwhile particuarly if also towing a powered van etc. I currently use a Redarc SBI, but will be changing to Traxide in near future.

Bullbar - jury out. As others have said, sensible driving (avoiding early am and late pm) for us is the norm. Having said that only time I have hit a roo was in middle of the day, in fact the stupid thing ran into the side of the car. A mate who has travelled 100K in 2 years on the road across Oz, does not have a bull bar and would not put one in. Personal preference I guess.

Stone Stopper - fabulous. I should also have installed new front mud flaps to go with the Defender rears. Back fender guards a bit worse for wear without decent front flaps.

Have not found the need for a Mitch Hitch, but our offroad towing is not particularly hard core like some others. Horses for courses. Typically stick to roads like Edward Giles, Old Jim Jim Road, Oodnadatta Track, Mereenie Loop etc, which are not particuarly hard core off road tracks. Use a TBR upturned. Carries the same load.

Can carry a reasonable amount of fuel on camper if necessary. So no long range tank. Would look to Boab or similar if ever needed.

Extra spare tyre is on Rhino Rack. Bit of a pain to get down, but not the issue of unloading back of car to get OEM spare down which is second spare. Avoiding SWC and additional weight.

Have resisted the urge to spend hard earned on 18" GOE wheels, although have not completely discounted. Use Maxiss 980 Bravo LT. So far have done the trick for me, but not for some others.

Have thought about rock sliders and would do this next time I venture into a hardcore 4x4 experience. But main protection I need is Compressor plate. GOE or APT preference. Probably APT because of local distributor (as for rock sliders).

UHF - Icom, but any of the major brands seem to be good (GME, Uniden etc). Antennae is probably more important and mounting. Mine is on side of bonnett and not convinced this is ideal. Centre of roof is probably preferable. Difficult with tray.

Have toyed with idea of Satellite phone, but not proceeded. Optus' sleeve looks like a good option, although there is not a lot of info available from their franchise stores when I last enquired. Online now providing better info.

Haven't entertained a snorkel, but question is do I real need one. Am I going to wade deeper than the LR advised depth? Probably not. Could I use a blanket/bra instead - probably. Would it allow the car to breath better on dirt roads - possibly. Is it reversible when I sell the car - possibly but expensive. Transmission breathers - possibly?

LLAMS - yes a real benefit, and if for nothing else but accessing car parks.

REDARC Tow pro +++

Bottle jack (one modified for Discos).

Diesel fuel filter. Would consider if venturing into 'the unknown' less well trodden paths where fuel quality maybe questionable.

Oil cooler - maybe given towing requirement but need more research.

[GregMilner]

My 2c worth for what it is worth.........

Dual battery using Traxide battery isolator. Traxide seems to be worthwhile particuarly if also towing a powered van etc. I currently use a Redarc SBI, but will be changing to Traxide in near future.

Bullbar - jury out. As others have said, sensible driving (avoiding early am and late pm) for us is the norm. Having said that only time I have hit a roo was in middle of the day, in fact the stupid thing ran into the side of the car. A mate who has travelled 100K in 2 years on the road across Oz, does not have a bull bar and would not put one in. Personal preference I guess.

Stone Stopper - fabulous. I should also have installed new front mud flaps to go with the Defender rears. Back fender guards a bit worse for wear without decent front flaps.

Have not found the need for a Mitch Hitch, but our offroad towing is not particularly hard core like some others. Horses for courses. Typically stick to roads like Edward Giles, Old Jim Jim Road, Oodnadatta Track, Mereenie Loop etc, which are not particuarly hard core off road tracks. Use a TBR upturned. Carries the same load.

Can carry a reasonable amount of fuel on camper if necessary. So no long range tank. Would look to Boab or similar if ever needed.

Extra spare tyre is on Rhino Rack. Bit of a pain to get down, but not the issue of unloading back of car to get OEM spare down which is second spare. Avoiding SWC and additional weight.

Have resisted the urge to spend hard earned on 18" GOE wheels, although have not completely discounted. Use Maxiss 980 Bravo LT. So far have done the trick for me, but not for some others.

Have thought about rock sliders and would do this next time I venture into a hardcore 4x4 experience. But main protection I need is Compressor plate. GOE or APT preference. Probably APT because of local distributor (as for rock sliders).

UHF - Icom, but any of the major brands seem to be good (GME, Uniden etc). Antennae is probably more important and mounting. Mine is on side of bonnett and not convinced this is ideal. Centre of roof is probably preferable. Difficult with tray.

Have toyed with idea of Satellite phone, but not proceeded. Optus' sleeve looks like a good option, although there is not a lot of info available from their franchise stores when I last enquired. Online now providing better info.

Haven't entertained a snorkel, but question is do I real need one. Am I going to wade deeper than the LR advised depth? Probably not. Could I use a blanket/bra instead - probably. Would it allow the car to breath better on dirt roads - possibly. Is it reversible when I sell the car - possibly but expensive. Transmission breathers - possibly?

LLAMS - yes a real benefit, and if for nothing else but accessing car parks.

REDARC Tow pro +++

Bottle jack (one modified for Discos).

Diesel fuel filter. Would consider if venturing into 'the unknown' less well trodden paths where fuel quality maybe questionable.

Oil cooler - maybe given towing requirement but need more research.

That all sounds very sensible. After considering all comments and advice, I've revised my 'must have' list.

1) I'll stick with a RWC and long range tank.
2) brake controller and Anderson plug for obvious reasons.
3) Safari snorkel - for peace of mind in Lichfield etc.
4) IID tool
5) UHF.
6) Maxxis LTs - 6 ordered.
7) compressor plate

The others - maybe, maybe not. Would prefer not to have a bullbar if possible. We try to avoid early morning/late afternoon travel too. And I could do with spending the $3K elsewhere. Llams - not convinced. Traxide - not convinced for earlier stated reasons. Sliders - definitely not. Mitch hitch... will see how the OEM one goes first. Have thought about stone stompers, might be a good idea. Diff breathers? Probably not, I think the OEM ones on the transmission and diffs should be adequate.

[drivesafe]

Traxide - not convinced for earlier stated reasons.

Hi Greg and not sure what you mean but here is some info that may be of use to you

With more than 4,000 D3s and D4s equipped with my DBS. Both here and around the world, they are well and truely tested and here is a comparison with other types of DBS.

this is also for other D3 and D4 owners who are looking at fitting some form of dual battery system to their Discos, but do not fully understand how different systems actually work and which give the best all round performance.

For those still trying to sort out fact from advertising fiction, the following should help.

The first problem most people have when trying to determine what is the best system for their needs, is the amount of misinformation that is used to market many of the products used to set up a dual battery system.

A perfect example of deliberate misinformation is the advertising hype used to sell DC/DC devices. It is not just misinformation but also the lack of full disclosure that results in people ending up with an over priced but under performing dual battery system.

There are plenty of sellers claiming that an alternator will not fully charge a battery but then claim that a DC/DC device "CAN" fully charge a battery, and it is this type of claim, that makes it sound like you need a DC/DC device because it can do what an alternator "ALLEGEDLY" can not do.

While the claim that a DC/DC device "CAN" fully charge a battery, is correct, but unless the potential buyer is aware of what is actually required to fully charge a LOW 12v battery, they then are lead to believe that a DC/DC device will do a batter job than an alternator can.

Reality is that the only time alternators can not fully charge batteries, is when the vehicle is not driven long enough to allow the alternator to do what it is designed to do.

This is where the advertising misinformation comes in.

The same short driving that prevents an alternator from from fully charging a battery will have at least the same effect when charging with a DC/DC device and in many cases when charging a low battery with a DC/DC, the battery will actually ends up being in a lower state of charge at the end of a short drive than what it would have been had it been charge by the alternator.

Here is a real world example of what the misinformation can lead to.

If you have an Optima D34, a 55Ah auxiliary battery, in a low state of charge, a combination of the high operating voltage and the high current from the D3 and D4 alternator, you can charge the Optima from 0% SoC ( 10.5v ) to well over 95% in under an hours drive.

Using a 40 amp DC/DC device, it will take around 90 minutes to achieve that same level of charge and using a 20 amp DC/DC device will take close to 3 hours, to do what your alternator can do in under an hour.

Furthermore, with a DC/DC setup, you have 45Ah available to power your accessories, but with a Traxide DBS, you have 90Ah available. NOTE this extra usable battery capacity is available with out the need to add another battery, there is no additional weight or lose of space, as would be needed to get the same amount of usable battery capacity when using a DC/DC device or any other VSR type isolator.

So you need to do your homework before outlaying your hard earned cash.

Here are some other comparisons between Traxide DBS performance and that of other types of DBS setups, when used in a D3 or D4.

With a Traxide setup, you also have the advantage of Back-Discharging, which allows the Auxiliary Battery to help to keep your Cranking Battery in a higher state of charge. Something no other dual battery system does.

The Load Sharing operation of a Traxide Isolator means you halve the work load of your batteries. Both while charging and while discharging. And because of the lower currents required, there is an additional benefit of helping to extend the operating lifespan of both batteries.

The new generation SC80 and DT90 isolators also have Reverse-Charging, allowing you to charge and maintain both batteries with a battery charger or solar, no matter which battery you connect the charging source to, something you can't do with a DC/DC device.

The Sharing of both the load and the charging is also particularly useful if you are free camping with a camper trailer or caravan. Allowing for much longer stays between charges.

[Redback]

That all sounds very sensible. After considering all comments and advice, I've revised my 'must have' list.

1) I'll stick with a RWC and long range tank.
2) brake controller and Anderson plug for obvious reasons.
3) Safari snorkel - for peace of mind in Lichfield etc.
4) IID tool
5) UHF.
6) Maxxis LTs - 6 ordered.
7) compressor plate

The others - maybe, maybe not. Would prefer not to have a bullbar if possible. We try to avoid early morning/late afternoon travel too. And I could do with spending the $3K elsewhere. Llams - not convinced. Traxide - not convinced for earlier stated reasons. Sliders - definitely not. Mitch hitch... will see how the OEM one goes first. Have thought about stone stompers, might be a good idea. Diff breathers? Probably not, I think the OEM ones on the transmission and diffs should be adequate.

If you are planning on having a fridge in the car, then I would suggest a DBS, which one you choose is a personal thing, I would recommend the Traxide if you do decide though, it is the only one I would buy for a D3/4/RRS and so on, it is far superior to the DC/DC device, I know cause I've had both, DC/DC units don't get the battery up to their max charge rate, well mine didn't that I had in the camper.

LLAMS are a must for two wheel track type roads, and for when you need more clearence and still want to go over 50kph, especially if you're towing, the car does lower a lot more when it bounces hitting bumps in the road, if there is anything hidden in the crown of the two wheel track and you hit it, and it's happened to me quite a few times when I forgotten to raise the car.

You won't need diff breathers, the standard ones are fine.

The standard D4 hitch is fine, just get a higher tounge to keep the van up higher if it needs it.

Sliders are not neccessary either unless you're rock crawling.

As for the bullbar, well another personal thing also, don't fit one if you don't want one, for me it was piece of mind, I've only had one animal strike and it was in the D4, the bullbar paid for itself right at that moment at only our 4th day of our 4 week trip, our bullbar was only $1800 fitted, they have gone up a lot:eek:

Your wish list is fine as far as I can see, apart from the LLAMS and DBS, of coarse they can be gotten around by keeping below 50 in offroad mode and not having a fridge in the car.

[GregMilner]

Thank you for that Tim, it explains a lot. We don't ever leave the fridge running in the car...when we camp, we take it out and run it alongside the camper as a freezer, and use the Waeco in the camper as a fridge. So I'm not quite clear on why we need a DBS in the car under those circumstances?

The camper is charged from 250w solar panels (2 X 110amp batteries) which also charge the portable Engel battery. Am I missing something?

Greg


Hi Greg and not sure what you mean but here is some info that may be of use to you

With more than 4,000 D3s and D4s equipped with my DBS. Both here and around the world, they are well and truely tested and here is a comparison with other types of DBS.

this is also for other D3 and D4 owners who are looking at fitting some form of dual battery system to their Discos, but do not fully understand how different systems actually work and which give the best all round performance.

For those still trying to sort out fact from advertising fiction, the following should help.

The first problem most people have when trying to determine what is the best system for their needs, is the amount of misinformation that is used to market many of the products used to set up a dual battery system.

A perfect example of deliberate misinformation is the advertising hype used to sell DC/DC devices. It is not just misinformation but also the lack of full disclosure that results in people ending up with an over priced but under performing dual battery system.

There are plenty of sellers claiming that an alternator will not fully charge a battery but then claim that a DC/DC device "CAN" fully charge a battery, and it is this type of claim, that makes it sound like you need a DC/DC device because it can do what an alternator "ALLEGEDLY" can not do.

While the claim that a DC/DC device "CAN" fully charge a battery, is correct, but unless the potential buyer is aware of what is actually required to fully charge a LOW 12v battery, they then are lead to believe that a DC/DC device will do a batter job than an alternator can.

Reality is that the only time alternators can not fully charge batteries, is when the vehicle is not driven long enough to allow the alternator to do what it is designed to do.

This is where the advertising misinformation comes in.

The same short driving that prevents an alternator from from fully charging a battery will have at least the same effect when charging with a DC/DC device and in many cases when charging a low battery with a DC/DC, the battery will actually ends up being in a lower state of charge at the end of a short drive than what it would have been had it been charge by the alternator.

Here is a real world example of what the misinformation can lead to.

If you have an Optima D34, a 55Ah auxiliary battery, in a low state of charge, a combination of the high operating voltage and the high current from the D3 and D4 alternator, you can charge the Optima from 0% SoC ( 10.5v ) to well over 95% in under an hours drive.

Using a 40 amp DC/DC device, it will take around 90 minutes to achieve that same level of charge and using a 20 amp DC/DC device will take close to 3 hours, to do what your alternator can do in under an hour.

Furthermore, with a DC/DC setup, you have 45Ah available to power your accessories, but with a Traxide DBS, you have 90Ah available. NOTE this extra usable battery capacity is available with out the need to add another battery, there is no additional weight or lose of space, as would be needed to get the same amount of usable battery capacity when using a DC/DC device or any other VSR type isolator.

So you need to do your homework before outlaying your hard earned cash.

Here are some other comparisons between Traxide DBS performance and that of other types of DBS setups, when used in a D3 or D4.

With a Traxide setup, you also have the advantage of Back-Discharging, which allows the Auxiliary Battery to help to keep your Cranking Battery in a higher state of charge. Something no other dual battery system does.

The Load Sharing operation of a Traxide Isolator means you halve the work load of your batteries. Both while charging and while discharging. And because of the lower currents required, there is an additional benefit of helping to extend the operating lifespan of both batteries.

The new generation SC80 and DT90 isolators also have Reverse-Charging, allowing you to charge and maintain both batteries with a battery charger or solar, no matter which battery you connect the charging source to, something you can't do with a DC/DC device.

The Sharing of both the load and the charging is also particularly useful if you are free camping with a camper trailer or caravan. Allowing for much longer stays between charges.

[drivesafe]

Thank you for that Tim, it explains a lot. We don't ever leave the fridge running in the car...when we camp, we take it out and run it alongside the camper as a freezer, and use the Waeco in the camper as a fridge. So I'm not quite clear on why we need a DBS in the car under those circumstances?

The camper is charged from 250w solar panels (2 X 110amp batteries) which also charge the portable Engel battery. Am I missing something?

Greg

Nope, with your type of use, you probably don't need a DBS, but if situation changes, you have the good oil :D

[GregMilner]

There's been enough talk on here about Traxide for that many years, I doubt whether I'd even bother looking at anyone else's.:-)

Who do you recommend in WA for installation when the time comes Tim?


Nope, with your type of use, you probably don't need a DBS, but if situation changes, you have the good oil :D

[Chops]

There's been enough talk on here about Traxide for that many years, I doubt whether I'd even bother looking at anyone else's.:-)

Who do you recommend in WA for installation when the time comes Tim?

Yourself,,, and maybe a mate to help keep you company,, read to you,, pass you tools, drinks,, (beer :angel: ) etc.
Having done this in both our very new Defender and D4, I found it relatively straight forward and quite easy,,, and I'm petrified of electrics. :eek:

Taking it to a so called expert to install, you risk them knowing sooo much, they won't read and follow instructions, and then probably cock something up.

[drivesafe]

Hi Greg and exactly what Chops posted.

I do everything I can to convince customers to fit their own kits.

I have found that they will always do a MUCH better job than most auto elect will do and the D3 and D4 are just so easy to run cabling through.

[rar110]

Greg
If you didn't need a DBS in the L322 then you probably won't need it in the D4.

Personally I thing these voltage hungry vehicles need more amps as a buffer. I camp with out the camper sometimes, which means I'm using the L322 cargo area a bit and chewing up power with lights. For me it's extra power.

I installed my Traxide kit on the L322. It's quite well thought out. It takes time to install but certainly a DIY job. Knowledge gained from DIY install does help if there's a problem.

[GregMilner]

It's tempting, and I do like things to be well set up. A lot of my thinking comes down to weight issues too...with more than 200kg on the tow ball from the trailer, plus a long range tank and various other add-ons, I'm wary of keeping everything under GVM.
On the other hand, I'll probably still carry that portable Engel battery wherever we go, but at least I can take that out and use it to power the Engel alongside the trailer when we camp, so that does have some advantages.

[Shakey]

Yourself,,, and maybe a mate to help keep you company,, read to you,, pass you tools, drinks,, (beer :angel: ) etc.
Having done this in both our very new Defender and D4, I found it relatively straight forward and quite easy,,, and I'm petrified of electrics. :eek:

Taking it to a so called expert to install, you risk them knowing sooo much, they won't read and follow instructions, and then probably cock something up.

I installed mine on the D2 - love the traxide. Is the D3/4 easier to get cables through the firewall? It's such a pain on the D2.

[Chops]

I installed mine on the D2 - love the traxide. Is the D3/4 easier to get cables through the firewall? It's such a pain on the D2.

I can't tell you about that, I didn't have it in my D2.
Having said that, I wish I'd installed the DBS in the D4 "before" the other guys installed the radio and electric brakes. :(

[Narangga]

I installed mine on the D2 - love the traxide. Is the D3/4 easier to get cables through the firewall? It's such a pain on the D2.

Didn't put anything through on the D2 for that reason.

D3 was a case of following the instructions to find the grommet and cut it accordingly. :)

[rar110]

Weight is certainly a relevant consideration. I didn't realise you have an Engel battery pack.

[Russrobe]

Assuming you would anyway, but don't forget to pack some jumper leads if you don't plan on getting one of Tims kits, if kids keep opening and closing the doors too often you can flatten the main. Due to waking up all ECU's.

Tim, I've been charging my batterys via the Anderson plug thinking it is charging both with the USI160 full kit, am i correct? It's about 6 months old, you mentioned the newer models doing so before, just checking. Thanks.

[GregMilner]

We don't have little kids opening and closing doors constantly - and I've got one of those neat little 16000mA lithium jump starters that'll jump a V8 diesel half a dozen times before recharging, so I think we're covered there:)

[LandyAndy]

Assuming you would anyway, but don't forget to pack some jumper leads if you don't plan on getting one of Tims kits, if kids keep opening and closing the doors too often you can flatten the main. Due to waking up all ECU's.

Tim, I've been charging my batterys via the Anderson plug thinking it is charging both with the USI160 full kit, am i correct? It's about 6 months old, you mentioned the newer models doing so before, just checking. Thanks.

It will,as long as it hasn't isolated the main battery at its cut-out voltage.
Andrew

[Russrobe]

It will,as long as it hasn't isolated the main battery at its cut-out voltage.
Andrew

Will have to remember this, as i leave my fridge on with a carton of beer at the ready at all times so I do put it on charge AFTER it's just turned off every now and then.

The joys of dual batteries, fridge in the car is the most underrated mod. Who cares what you're doing after you do the food shopping? You have a fridge... Want a beer? Fridge!!

[GregMilner]

So, after more than a month in which floods threw interstate rail transport into chaos, my long-awaited new D4 has arrived in Perth.
Quite a different drive from the now-gone L322, but extremely comfy nonetheless.

Now the expensive bit really begins...

120111

[LandyAndy]

Looks Great.
LOVE MINE!!!!
ENJOY
Andrew

[ATH]

Looking at all the oil spots on the floor it seems it's a regular parking place for Landies......[bigsmile1]
AlanH.

[LandyAndy]

There is a set of compomotive wheels in the markets at the moment.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/wheels-tyres-suspension-for-sale/247254-5-x-18-compomotive-pd1880-alloy-wheels-rrs-d4-bywong-via-queanbeyan-nsw.html#post2653161
Andrew

[ATH]

I've decided not to bother changing from the 19s. Seems to be and more tyres coming out in that size so will stick with it at least until the originals are worn down at least 50%.
From what I've been reading and people I've spoken to there's plenty of choices coming on without that expence.
AlanH.

[GregMilner]

I've decided not to bother changing from the 19s. Seems to be and more tyres coming out in that size so will stick with it at least until the originals are worn down at least 50%.
From what I've been reading and people I've spoken to there's plenty of choices coming on without that expence.
AlanH.

I've gone the same way Alan. I'm sticking with my 19s, about to do a trip through the Kimberley and NT with a set of Maxxis LT tyres on the original rims. Fingers crossed:-) It's all about how you drive I guess. Pressure as low as you dare given weight on board, speed etc. Hell...what can go wrong???

[LandyAndy]

The biggest issue I have with the 19" tyres is there is nothing left in the sidewall at 15psi.Most of our WA beaches have limestone in the approach tracks,a recipe for stuffed sidewalls,even with a stronger 19" tyre.
I don't know if you guys saw the video shot from Esperance to SA.They were using Duratracs,at an astonishingly great rate.An AULRO member bought a set of new wheels with destroyed new Duratracs the film crew left at a Nullabor roadhouse for a donation to the Flying Doctor.
Great Australian Bight Expedition | Explore | 4X4 Australia - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQCoKBCiayA)

Andrew

[GregMilner]

I get that Andrew. I'm extremely nervous about it. But, given that we do little beach driving, I'll wear the risk. Everything is a compromise. And an LT tyre in 19s is a compromise. Spending $5K plus on 18s and tyres isn't something I want to do, on top of all the other additions. I'm already up for $8K plus with what I've committed to for our upcoming trips. In the end, having 5 X LT tyres/rims and a spare carcass is a reasonable compromise for what we do. (I hope:-)

[cjc_td5]

I am not in a rush to go 18" wheels. I know Andy has had issues with his 19s, but I was recently on the beaches down south and sailed up Callcup Hill at 15psi, backing off the throttle half way up. I also whacked a stump in the track which hit the rim but the tyre was undamaged (so the Hankook tyres are not that fragile).

[DIS4]

I get that Andrew. I'm extremely nervous about it. But, given that we do little beach driving, I'll wear the risk. Everything is a compromise. And an LT tyre in 19s is a compromise. Spending $5K plus on 18s and tyres isn't something I want to do, on top of all the other additions. I'm already up for $8K plus with what I've committed to for our upcoming trips. In the end, having 5 X LT tyres/rims and a spare carcass is a reasonable compromise for what we do. (I hope:-)


Agreed with your selections as long as you stick with rules, speed and Tyre pressure. I had my 1st sidewall damaged near exit of border track where I had been watching the speed until the end. I supposed it was difficult when you have a large convoy more than 8 vehicles, most of them have LTtyre, then poor my 20" Rim with Cooper AT Tyre had one big hole on the side wall. Last Christmas, I had another two more destroyed at some rocky conditions. I realized I need to have the 18" Rim and a good set of Tyres. It is all depends on what you do. Touring and no much offroad, you will survive, Good luck while I still planning my trip to Kimberly. It is hard to go along with Toyo mats since they all recon LR air suspension and electronics are difficult to survive the long hauls outback, annoying!

[Russrobe]

Toyo fanboys just don't realize their 4x4s have just as much reliance on electronics as LRs in order to be driven safely.
Sure a LR will make you pull over and do the 20minute task of replacing a wheel speed sensor for example, but that's so you don't crash into a tree.... Think I'd rather replace the sensor.

[GregMilner]

Stage 1 - the electrical stuff - done.

Stage 2 - the heavy stuff begins.

Got the car back today after Opposite Lock fitted the new long range tank (Outback Accessories, gravity fed 92 litres) and OA single rear wheel carrier.
Nice job. (Although not too sure about the conduit fed through what looks like an un-grommeted hole in the corner of the rear body. Will have to get them to fix that.) The car definitely does drive a bit different, with all that extra weight behind the rear axle. A total of 156kg extra including 92 litres of extra fuel.
Which means that with another 200kg on the tow ball from the camper trailer, I guess we're going to be travelling pretty light, luggage wise inside the car.

121488121489121490121491

[DiscoJeffster]

Looks great.
Should it not have a replacement light on it to compensate for the obscuring of the factory right tail light?

[ATH]

Personally I'm not in a great rush to go with 18' wheels/tyres as the options for ATs in 19' are getting better. A fellow LROCWA member had a problem with his bog standard road tyres on Hartog Island and cut them up on the limestone tracks there and had to get a set of General Grabber ATs shipped to Carnarvon to replace them. But I've heard good reports from others who have no problems with the OME tyres so I'll keep them for a while.
I think the Grabbers may well be what I go for eventually as I've had them before on Defenders and they are a good tyre. There are other options like Pirelli or Maxxiss.
At the mo I'm waiting for Rijidiji to come up with their RWC for the D4 as their Defender model is a very well made piece of equipment but I may have to go to OA if it's not forthcoming fairly soon.
Isn't it great spending all this money...... [bawl]
AlanH.

[GregMilner]

Looks great.
Should it not have a replacement light on it to compensate for the obscuring of the factory right tail light?

All good Jeff, there is one.

121492

[Russrobe]

Watch out for those cables. I swapped out the conduit for something that can move more freely through that hole.

[ATH]

Very bad bit of workmanship I think. Just look at those jagged edges. Had much the same on our caravan where the electrics went through into the chassis so I fixed it with a bit of convoluted tube for safety.
AlanH.

[Strop]

Just as aside can you get a RWC that does not obstruct the rear lights? I like the look of them..,,

[DiscoJeffster]

Just as aside can you get a RWC that does not obstruct the rear lights? I like the look of them..,,

Yes. I understand the Front Runner RWC does not obscure the light, and subsequently obscures the view out the back window. Assuming you have a reversing camera that's less of an issue, though not great for rear visibility when driving forward. It's all compromises.

[GregMilner]

Yes. I understand the Front Runner RWC does not obscure the light, and subsequently obscures the view out the back window. Assuming you have a reversing camera that's less of an issue, though not great for rear visibility when driving forward. It's all compromises.

I researched this prior to committing and found that the Front Runner RWC had a slightly longer swing arm, thus obstructing more of the rear view. And while it exposed more of the right rear tail light assembly, it also meant that the whole assembly assumed a wider swing arc, which in turn risked fouling the front of our camper trailer. Which in turn meant that to open the tail gates, I might have had to make a conscious effort to swing the car to the left every time we stopped, so SWMBO could, if required, get into the load space easily.

Compromises, compromises.

[GregMilner]

Very bad bit of workmanship I think. Just look at those jagged edges. Had much the same on our caravan where the electrics went through into the chassis so I fixed it with a bit of convoluted tube for safety.
AlanH.

I'm okay with their response Alan. I've already emailed the boss and he's asked me to bring it back and have it fixed immediately.

[Strop]

Yes, but filed away in the grey cells now of the rest of us. Things you don't think of.

Laurie

[winglen]

Got the car back today after Opposite Lock fitted the new long range tank (Outback Accessories, gravity fed 92 litres) and OA single rear wheel carrier.
Nice job. (Although not too sure about the conduit fed through what looks like an un-grommeted hole in the corner of the rear body. Will have to get them to fix that.) The car definitely does drive a bit different, with all that extra weight behind the rear axle. A total of 156kg extra including 92 litres of extra fuel.
Which means that with another 200kg on the tow ball from the camper trailer, I guess we're going to be travelling pretty light, luggage wise inside the car.


I have a similar setup, the same tank and the Front Runner RWC and 200kg ball weight camper. One a recent Old Ghan route trip, to get similar tyre temperatures, I was running 26 front and 40 back psi. Big difference in axle weights.