Help please! Defender Puma intermittent ignition issue.

[alittlebitconcerned]

I hope I've posted this in the correct spot!


Hello wise forum.

For about a week now I have been having an intermittent issue with my ignition, where I turn the key fully on, and absolutely nothing happens.
I then try again and it works perfectly... or it doesn't. Either way I haven't been stuck yet because I always manage to get the car started but it is increasing in regularity and in the amount of attempts required to get it going.

I'm not sure if this is related or not but the issue started the day after I dropped a spanner in the battery box causing a second or so of sparks.

Thoughts?

[LandyAndy]

I would be checking the 12V trigger on the starter motor(the small wire that tells the solenoid to engage the big wire;););)).If they get oil/dirt etc on the connection becomes poor.
I doubt the sparkles had much to do with the problem.
Andrew

[scarry]

The ignition key barrels play up a bit as well on some.
My son replaced his on the Puma a while back.

Battery terminals OK?

They can sometimes be tight but corroded between the posts and lugs and cause all sorts of intermittent issues.

Happened on one of our vans recently,the fault only reared its head when high amps were being drawn from the battery,that is when starting the engine.

[V8Ian]

I'm with Andrew, sounds like a solenoid issue.

[alittlebitconcerned]

Thank you people for taking the time to reply.
It's some time since I posted the question and my thanks is coming very late.

[V8Ian]

Is it resolved?

[alittlebitconcerned]

No, not yet.
I've been dealing with the now constant issue for awhile but I'm going to have to wait till I get it to Graham Coopers in Sydney in a couple of weeks before hopefully getting it fixed.
I tried looking at it again today but am shamefully admitting I couldn't find the starter motor even armed with a google image. Useless.

[loneranger]

No, not yet.
I've been dealing with the now constant issue for awhile but I'm going to have to wait till I get it to Graham Coopers in Sydney in a couple of weeks before hopefully getting it fixed.
I tried looking at it again today but am shamefully admitting I couldn't find the starter motor even armed with a google image. Useless.

I had that issue of trying to find the starter motor when I was looking to connect an ignition wire. I gave up and connected somewhere else instead. Its next to the front passenger wheel from memory. I don't have to worry about these things anymore though my daughter's boyfriend is an auto sparkie and a land rover nut so she's under strict instructions :)

[alittlebitconcerned]

Ahh... I thought it might be there. I'll have another stab.

I need a daughter I think.

[The Cone of Silence]

Resurrecting this thread. I've been having the same problem for about a year now....mostly on hot days too, but if I pop to the shops, sometimes (maybe 1 in 30 times) when I get back in the car I turn the key and nothing happens....the dash lights are on but there's no click, no engagement of the solenoid. I wait for 30 minutes and it fires right up like normal.

I never lock the car and am wondering if it's therefore an immobiliser issue or if it's the ignition switch. Either way I'm going to try getting a new switch and asking the lads at KLR to bypass the immobiliser for me.

One of them suggested that having an Ultragauge plugged in might not be helping but yesterday when this happened, I removed it and the car still wouldn't fire up until 30 mins had elapsed.

It's doing my head in. Any advice or input welcomed.

[skidrov]

Some of the culprits can be:
- the ignition switch at the end of the key barrel, fairly easy to change, not too expensive (which is on your to-do list);
- the starter relay under the driver's seat, either failing or making poor contact. I'd remove/check/ reseat.

...and as per other comments, check the voltage at the starter solenoid. Bit of a challenge to get to but do-able.

[oldyella 76]

Also check the voltage at the starter solenoid terminal (that is the small wire). One of our loaders had a similar problem and it only had 6.7 volts at that terminal. There must have been a voltage drop somewhere between the ignition switch. We fixed it by placing a solenoid in the line from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid. Then put a heavy fused wire from the battery to that solenoid then to the starter solenoid. We had full voltage to the starter solenoid in and had the full voltage which worked very well. The problem can occur if you do not have good voltage to pull the solenoid in there is a chance that you will get arcing and sparking on the solenoid contacts causing poor conductivity creating more arcing, shortening the life of the solenoid. Also did this on a series 3 diesel and fixed its' starting problems.
Hope this helps. Lindsay

[karlz]

TLDR

Many years ago (1996) , I was riding my motorbike through Spanish Sahara and I came across this UK bloke (and wife) in a series 3 110 who was broken down. (Turns out he was a RAF Tornado Pilot on his honeymoon). Anyway, I asked him what's wrong and he said it wouldnt start.

Recollecting my previous Landrover experience, I asked him if he had a long shaft screwdriver, he gave me it.
I bridged the terminals on the starter motor solenoid with the screwdriver and it started.

[Aussie hero then rode off]

Solenoid wires and ignition barrel wires die.

[Robmacca]

TLDR

Many years ago (1996) , I was riding my motorbike through Spanish Sahara and I came across this UK bloke (and wife) in a series 3 110 who was broken down. (Turns out he was a RAF Tornado Pilot on his honeymoon). Anyway, I asked him what's wrong and he said it wouldnt start.

Recollecting my previous Landrover experience, I asked him if he had a long shaft screwdriver, he gave me it.
I bridged the terminals on the starter motor with the screwdriver and it started.

[Aussie hero then rode off]

Solenoids Die

I thought solenoids have 2 functions - One is to bridge out and supply power to the starter motor itself and the other is to operate the fork that forces the little cog into the flywheel ??

[karlz]

I thought solenoids have 2 functions - One is to bridge out and supply power to the starter motor itself and the other is to operate the fork that forces the little cog into the flywheel ??

Yes, your right. I bridged the solenoid contacts. Have corrected the post. Solenoid wires and/or ignition barrels die.

[The Cone of Silence]

Top stuff, thanks lads.

I'll make sure the guys at KLR check the cabling to the solenoid as well as replacing the switch itself.

[The Cone of Silence]

PROBLEM SOLVED!

One of the lads at KLR, after some serious head scratching from all the others, asked me if I had an aftermarket OBD2 reader plugged in....and I did - an Ultragauge. He suggested that these can cause some issues with the immobiliser sometimes and that I should unplug it.

So, I unplugged it and the problem has not occurred since....it's been 6 months now.

Unbelievable. Might as well be Lucas electrics.

Anyway there you go. If you have a Scangauge this doesn't appear to be a problem but if you prefer the much better-looking Ultragauge, you can't keep it plugged in or you'll get stranded in a car park and murdered by drug dealers. But at least they won't steal your car.

[spudfan]

Yep, it is usually something simple. Trouble is finding out what it is! Glad you got this sorted. Happy motoring[thumbsupbig]

[rgty_kmj]

I've had an ultra gauge plugged into my 2012 Defender for nearly 10 years now and never had any ignition/immobiliser problems.
I do carry a spare ignition barrel under the seat though!

- Kerry

[The Cone of Silence]

I've had an ultra gauge plugged into my 2012 Defender for nearly 10 years now and never had any ignition/immobiliser problems.
- Kerry

Bastard.

[tonguewink]

[travelrover]

I've had an ultra gauge plugged into my 2012 Defender for nearly 10 years now and never had any ignition/immobiliser problems.
I do carry a spare ignition barrel under the seat though!

- Kerry

We had 3 ignition switch failures in our 2012 Puma. We now have a parentie ignition switch, feels quite different but solid. Brad (KLR) said they have never had a parentie ignition switch failure.

[HardCharger]

Do you have a part number for that Perentie ignition switch? This solution, based on your experience so far, looks to be a good one. Please do keep us posted on these last.

I've replaced quite a few ignition switches on mine and now always have a spare as you really never know with these things.

[travelrover]

Do you have a part number for that Perentie ignition switch? This solution, based on your experience so far, looks to be a good one. Please do keep us posted on these last.

I've replaced quite a few ignition switches on mine and now always have a spare as you really never know with these things.

Not sure on the part number but should be here (Search results (https://klrautomotive.com.au/search-results-page?q=ignition%20barrel)) . One thing to note with the Perentie switch is there is no accessories position so the radio/fan will not work when you switch off. No real issue with puma standard radio you just press the power button for the radio.

[travelrover]

Do you have a part number for that Perentie ignition switch? This solution, based on your experience so far, looks to be a good one. Please do keep us posted on these last.

I've replaced quite a few ignition switches on mine and now always have a spare as you really never know with these things.


Found the part number, QFR100870 $126.36

[Lagerfan]

I've had an ultra gauge plugged into my 2012 Defender for nearly 10 years now and never had any ignition/immobiliser problems.
I do carry a spare ignition barrel under the seat though!

- Kerry

Long time Ultragauge user here and one thing I have noticed is on first connecting it (or even just plugging it back in) you need to wait for its initial scan to fully complete (ignition position II if I recall). If not I have had a random selection of dash lights winking at me and other random weirdness appear... sometimes quite a time later. Can't recall seeing any immobiliser issues though, and it's nearly 10 years of use too.