Which engine for towing?

[OzV8]

This may sound like a stupid question but, given that there is quite a price difference between the SD4 and the TD6, what are people's thoughts on the suitability of the SD4 for pulling a 22ft van with tare 2200kg? (ATM 2700 kg IF 180 litres of water on board).

I'm guessing that if a 2 litre Amarok has no issues then a SD4 won't either.


I'd like to get the SD4 and spend the $7k saved on fruit. Cheers.

[mustang2]

To quote a famous saying;
When it comes to towing.
"there are no substitute for cubic inches". (or cc)

All manufacturers including Land Rover are fitting smaller engines which rely on their turbocharging to make power, for many reasons non of which include heavy towing, especially in our climate.
If you are going to regularly tow more than 2.5t then I would go for the TD6.
I recently retired my Disco2 TD5 from towing our van and bought a Rangie Sport TDv8 to tow the van which is the same size/weight as yours.

For what it's worth I have 45 years experience as a heavy Diesel mechanic and own 2 Rovers.
Cheers.

[discorevy]

that saying is pretty long in the tooth, technology has come a long way, consider your td5 did the job and even if it was remapped it would fall 100 or so nm below the standard sd4 not to mention the power deficit , the extra 4 gears etc , methinks the sd4 will be fine for the job , if it was constantly towing 3 tonne plus then it might be worth considering the td6 you'll also save a bit on fuel with the sd4 but only when not towing. I tow a 2.2 tonne yacht with my disco3 tdv6 in which i have a tune around the same torque as sd4 but my disco weighs 2.7 tonnes and 6 speed , still plenty :-)

[theresanothersteve]

It's all about torque.

Torque used to be a product of cubic inches, or stroke to be more precise. Designers have tried to replace cubic inches with forced induction, getting the same amount of fuel/ air mix in a smaller chamber.

Sounds great, doesn't it? But there's no such thing as a free lunch. The more you rely on forced induction to boost torque the more compromises you will make. Heat and turbo lag spring to mind. Don't believe me? Take a V8 Commodore for a test drive (while you can). Feel torque from cubic inches, then drive a turbo with similar torque figures. You will not feel the creamy, smooth torque that only capacity can provide.

As technology is used to increase output from smaller motors I'm certain reliability comes into the equation. And, on hot days, turbos do not generate anywhere near their potential power. Ever wonder why Euro turbos that have an overboost capability don't have them enabled for the Australian market?

Don't be misled by the attraction of better fuel economy with a smaller motor. In the real world it doesn't happen. You need x amount of fuel to move a vehicle weighing y at z kmh for w kilometers. A six cylinder Commodore uses about the same a an eight, any difference comes about because we all open the throttle about the same amount to get moving, so the 8 consumes more (but gets to speed quicker). On the open road, with little speed variation, the difference is negligible.

If I was selecting between motors with towing in mind I'd get the biggest motor using my preferred fuel. It will do the job better, and IMHO for longer. I'd also expect the bigger donk to have a much better resale value...

[discorevy]

V8 commodore ? OK then
V8 commodore 1700 kg drag coefficient 0.31 , 6.2 v8 , torque 570 nm , average 12 l / 100
Discovery 4 2700 kg drag coefficient 0.4. , 3.0 v6 , torque 600 nm , average 10 l / 100
Wonder what the 6.2,s fuel consumption would be if it was in the disco ?
I love a v8 petrol as well but they are not efficient and also don't put out as much in the heat , that's just to do with air density, the new generation of Brit and euro diesels are incredibly efficient , modern metallurgy also makes them reliable , sequential turbos deliver the torque smoothly , whichever way you look at it turbo diesel is what you use for hauling stuff and 500 nm is enough for the op's requirements when you consider the 400 + kilos weight reduction on the disco 5

[Geedublya]

I don't know why they turbo all those truck engines, they just have to make them bigger to get the same torque and fuel efficiency.:o

The new ingenium is still an unknown for towing at this stage, it may be very good or it may not be tuned well. I would be waiting for some real world experience or if you can't wait buy the TD6.

[OzV8]

I would be waiting for some real world experience or if you can't wait buy the TD6.

I think this is the answer I needed to be told :)

Hopefully some one will tow test it before I need to put my order in.
Cheers.

[BobD]

I have the Ingenium 132kW, which is the equivalent of the TD4, in my DS. I certainly wouldn't like it in the heavier D5. The SD4 has a lot more torque on paper so it may be OK.


Although it is getting better with a few thousand km there is a lot of turbo lag and it seems to lack torque once you build up a few revs. It pulls hard at 2000rpm but then tapers off a lot before the next gear change when accelerating hard, even with the 9 speed transmission.


The other issue with all the new LR diesels is having to use Add Blue. It must be refilled using a few 1.9l bottles costing $16 a bottle. The only ones I have found are at a dealer. None in any shops that I can find.


My first refill at about 4500km would have cost $150 but was free for the first fill. I am going to try buying a 1.9l bottle and then refilling from the 20l containers you can buy. According to the manual you can't use the Add Blue pump at the servo, which makes it very inconvenient, compared with say Audi which has a filler located next to the fuel filler to fill up from a servo.

[discorevy]

DPF = Disabled Performance Filter, what a pain these are , might be worth a chat to Kevin about deleting it after the warranty , Pete Bell should have a software patch for it by then:angel:

[DiscoMick]

DPF = Disabled Performance Filter, what a pain these are , might be worth a chat to Kevin about deleting it after the warranty , Pete Bell should have a software patch for it by then:angel:
That would make your vehicle illegal, like VW's cheat software, which could have registration and insurance implications of it was ever found to be relevant to a claim.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

any decent truck stop will have AddBlue on pump,,,
just buy a suitable container:cool:
wheres Ian? never bloody around when you need him...

[mustang2]

Also worth considering in all of this are the other components, such as driveline, if their all the same no, problem.
However are the transmissions the same? if not what's their rated max continuous torque, how much margin of reliability when towing?
Having a smaller engine running high boost all day in 40C might be OK but how hard is the trans going to work?
Additionally high boost means high fuel, no matter what size the engine the conversion of fuel to energy/heat is still the same.
As someone said previously there are no free lunches.
Anyway good luck with your choice I am sure you will be happy which ever way you go.
Cheers.

[discorevy]

That would make your vehicle illegal, like VW's cheat software, which could have registration and insurance implications of it was ever found to be relevant to a claim.

Any vehicle, without working egr , or a 50 mm lift and bigger diameter tyres with no certificate would be included , as would any vehicle with a remap . my sympathies are more bias towards the mechanical than the bureaucratic...... But then a mechanic is my trade after all:)

[Bohica]

The other issue with all the new LR diesels is having to use Add Blue. It must be refilled using a few 1.9l bottles costing $16 a bottle.

Only $1.00 a litre.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=adblue&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=8fieWPSxA6Lr8AeTg6rgBg

Or just buy the urea and mix a 37.5% solution in de ionised water.

https://www.bunnings.com.au/richgro-4kg-urea_p2982917

https://www.bunnings.com.au/diggers-4l-demineralised-water_p4460953

You need 10L of Adblue?

so the water is $7.81 and the urea is $11.23 Hmm, not cost effective.
Buy it from coles express- Shell.

[BobD]

The bottles that you have to use to fill the AdBlue, at least on a DS and from what I hear from the parts guy on every other LR, are $16.00. I will not be doing that. I am trying to find a way to fill it using the readily available cheaper stuff but the only way I can see is to do it 1.9l at a time by refilling a LR bottle with the cheaper stuff. An absolute pain and enough to put one off Land Rover for ever!! I can't imagine doing this with 5 or 10 bottles slowly filled at a bowser and then screwed onto the filler. Ridiculous.


Edit: The DS hold 13.7l of AdBlue.


The parts guy told me that it "should" be possible to refill a bottle but he doesn't know for sure. I will try it before my next refill. On my car the maximum distance I could have done before refilling it was 5500km, so on a long trip in a RRS or D5 it would be extremely annoying. Apparently, AdBlue must not be stored in the car so what you would do in a remote area I don't know.


By the way, according to YouTube, purchasing these AdBlue bottles at a servo in the UK costs 10 quid, so no cheaper there, even from a non dealer.

[theresanothersteve]

V8 commodore ? OK then
V8 commodore 1700 kg drag coefficient 0.31 , 6.2 v8 , torque 570 nm , average 12 l / 100
Discovery 4 2700 kg drag coefficient 0.4. , 3.0 v6 , torque 600 nm , average 10 l / 100
Wonder what the 6.2,s fuel consumption would be if it was in the disco ?
I love a v8 petrol as well but they are not efficient and also don't put out as much in the heat , that's just to do with air density, the new generation of Brit and euro diesels are incredibly efficient , modern metallurgy also makes them reliable , sequential turbos deliver the torque smoothly , whichever way you look at it turbo diesel is what you use for hauling stuff and 500 nm is enough for the op's requirements when you consider the 400 + kilos weight reduction on the disco 5What?

I was pointing out the V8 Commodore returns similar fuel figures to a V6 Commodore, not comparing a turbo diesel in a Disco with big cubes in a sedan. Indeed, If I was comparing petrol with diesel I'd be looking at Discos, Range Rovers, or similar. I can also claim (with the figures to prove it) that in day to day running, predominantly peak hour up hill/ down hill that the V8 Commodore is the only car I've owned (actually 2 of them) that does better than the claimed fuel consumption.

And I'm not sure about your claims about natural v forced aspiration in the heat. My last VE V8 showed absolutely no power loss during 44 degree days. My current twin charged car and the D3 both show reduced performance on hot days.

If I'm towing I want as much power, specifically torque, as I can get. The bigger motor will provide that irrespective of petrol or diesel, forced or natural aspiration.

Say what you like, but explain why there is such a strong aftermarket in remapping, even this forum there are regular posts on getting more from motors for towing.

[Stuart02]

This may sound like a stupid question but, given that there is quite a price difference between the SD4 and the TD6, what are people's thoughts on the suitability of the SD4 for pulling a 22ft van with tare 2200kg? (ATM 2700 kg IF 180 litres of water on board).

I'm guessing that if a 2 litre Amarok has no issues then a SD4 won't either.


I'd like to get the SD4 and spend the $7k saved on fruit. Cheers.
I've read a review that said the 4 cylinder felt relatively underdone compared to the 6, and that economy gains were lost cos it had to work harder. But I'm sure the 4 would do the job - it's still impressive figures and only a tad meh compared to the 6.
I was hoping the 4 would be amazing, as it allows for a higher vehicle payload.

[willem]

I tow a 1.3 tonne caravan with my TD4 Disco Sport. Handles it with no problem at all. Even going up long steep hills, like the road from Skenes Creek to Forrest, off the Great Ocean Road near Apollo Bay.

My previous car was a D3 V8. Quite different, but also handled the van easily.

[BobD]

The bottles that you have to use to fill the AdBlue, at least on a DS and from what I hear from the parts guy on every other LR, are $16.00. I will not be doing that. I am trying to find a way to fill it using the readily available cheaper stuff but the only way I can see is to do it 1.9l at a time by refilling a LR bottle with the cheaper stuff. An absolute pain and enough to put one off Land Rover for ever!! I can't imagine doing this with 5 or 10 bottles slowly filled at a bowser and then screwed onto the filler. Ridiculous.


I have now bought 2 of the 1.9l bottles of AdBlue and they are easily refillable, so I will be able to use the bulk supplies to do that. I just wish that LR provided a filler which enables filling from a pump, like other manufacturers do.

[SimmAus]

I think this engine is fine.....

Land Rover Discovery Tows 110 Tonne Road Train - YouTube (https://youtu.be/9DsK0SH0h9s)

[Bohica]

I think this engine is fine.....

Land Rover Discovery Tows 110 Tonne Road Train - YouTube (https://youtu.be/9DsK0SH0h9s)

That'll void the warranty!

[donh54]

That'll void the warranty!

Only if someone posts it on the Internet....... Oooops!