L660 or L663

[blackrangie]

Ive seen the new Defender refered to as the L663? Is this correct?

[blackrangie]

2019 Land Rover Defender Already Testing On Public Roads - autoevolution (https://www.autoevolution.com/news/2019-land-rover-defender-already-testing-on-public-roads-111793.html)

[ramblingboy42]

Is it an official JLR release?........

[blackrangie]

Is it an official JLR release?........
Google "L663 Defender" or "Defender Project Darwin"..most recent articles mention L663 older ones seem to mention L660

[blackrangie]

Its defs L663

[Zeros]

'Project Darwin' is interesting if it's true. Anyone know why? Could be a good sign, but then it could be called 'Defender Darwin' which would be as bad as Landcruiser Kakadu. 🙈

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The original development project to replace the "Defender" way back in 2013 was termed L660, its only a guess but L663 may be the current "evolution" of L660 and that reminds me of Darwinism.

[blackrangie]

The original development project to replace the "Defender" way back in 2013 was termed L660, its only a guess but L663 may be the current "evolution" of L660 and that reminds me of Darwinism.So defender thread title needs updating

[Zeros]

The original development project to replace the "Defender" way back in 2013 was termed L660, its only a guess but L663 may be the current "evolution" of L660 and that reminds me of Darwinism.

:Rolling::Rolling:

[scarry]

The original development project to replace the "Defender" way back in 2013 was termed L660, its only a guess but L663 may be the current "evolution" of L660 and that reminds me of Darwinism.

So it has never been released,but there is already a new model........

[blackrangie]

When is the new defender section going to be changed to L663?


"However, Autocar can now reveal the new Defender, codenamed L663, will finally be shown towards the end of the year as the centrepiece of Land Rover’s 70th anniversary celebrations – and the model revealed will be the final production car, not a concept."

New Land Rover Defender edges closer to production as cold weather testing commences | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-land-rover-defender-edges-closer-production-cold-weather-testing-commences)

[SBD4]

When is the new defender section going to be changed to L663?
Probably after it's official announcement, whenever that may be.

[ramblingboy42]

So defender thread title needs updating

does it? is L663 official?... again , I haven't seen an official release of this information

[blackrangie]

does it? is L663 official?... again , I haven't seen an official release of this informationCodenames are usually not officially realeased on a manufacturers website (as they are code names) but widely known before release however when every reporter is using it its usually a sure thing. No one is using L660 as it was for the old Defender concept that no one liked that's dead. L663 is widely known as the current completely different defender, which is be tested. If you google L660 this thread ranks first, however Google L663 it doesn't show, prob not what the owner of Aulro wants, you loose traffic and people value adding to discussion. Not a big deal for us, but for others trying to find Aulro and the owner/s, yes.

[grey_ghost]

I had a quick read of the article and the most that I got out of it was “premium”... AKA “expensive “.. Land Rover have officially lost the plot... They have forgotten their origins and risk disappearing when the premium market declines and they have nothing else. Oh well. [emoji26]

[SBD4]

I had a quick read of the article and the most that I got out of it was “premium”... AKA “expensive “.. Land Rover have officially lost the plot... They have forgotten their origins and risk disappearing when the premium market declines and they have nothing else. Oh well. [emoji26]

They are absolutely going for a different market. The existing defender base was a 20K unit P/A demand, at that rate the new vehicle would never succeed. They are targeting the "Life Style" market.

some months ago I had a conversation with someone who has sat their backside in one of these earlier this year and basically said:



Aiming for life style market.
"Sort of like the D4"
expected price range 60K to 110K AUD
Based on D5 platform (hardened)
90, 110 coming and 130 too which apparently is "huge"
priority is the 90 and 110
Current defender owners most likely will not like it
Its capability is very impressive - G wagon is nothing (This, I think, is the most important point of all as the credibility of the brand rests on this being true)


Take all of the above with a grain of salt - things change.

While they may not be catering to the current defender market that's not to say that they will not in the future. After all, there was and is a commercial version of the the Disco (ie no carpets etc.). The main impediment to getting the commercial version here in Oz if one was produced would be LRA themselves - as I understand it, they decide what comes here unfortunately and they most likely will not want to muddy their premium status.

it would be nice to have some indication of where things are being pointed, we really just have to wait and see....like we've been doing.

[Zeros]

They are absolutely going for a different market. The existing defender base was a 20K unit P/A demand, at that rate the new vehicle would never succeed. They are targeting the "Life Style" market.

some months ago I had a conversation with someone who has sat their backside in one of these earlier this year and basically said:



Aiming for life style market.
"Sort of like the D4"
expected price range 60K to 110K AUD
Based on D5 platform (hardened)
90, 110 coming and 130 too which apparently is "huge"
priority is the 90 and 110
Current defender owners most likely will not like it
Its capability is very impressive - G wagon is nothing (This, I think, is the most important point of all as the credibility of the brand rests on this being true)


Take all of the above with a grain of salt - things change.

While they may not be catering to the current defender market that's not to say that they will not in the future. After all, there was and is a commercial version of the the Disco (ie no carpets etc.). The main impediment to getting the commercial version here in Oz if one was produced would be LRA themselves - as I understand it, they decide what comes here unfortunately and they most likely will not want to muddy their premium status.

it would be nice to have some indication of where things are being pointed, we really just have to wait and see....like we've been doing.


We are all aware of the spin. ...The problem is that 100% of all current Land Rover models are already aimed at the 'Lifestyle Market'.

...So the real question is, what will set the Defender apart? What will make it deserving of the name 'Defender'? The 130 sounds interesting. But looking at the 90 and 110 spyshots we've seen they look quite diminutive, so the the 130 might be the commercial vehicle? The problem is - to compete in the over supplied dual cab market, the price will need to be more like $35-60K.

More capable than a MB G Wagen? Intriguing...but I'm not convinced given the spy shots, we'll see. At least if there is a 110 wagon version for $60K it will compete on price. But you can bet the base model will be a small capacity 4 or EV! and that the useable work vehicle version will be $80K+

[rar110]

The Wildcat is in the $80k price range. The Defender will be similar probably.

[101RRS]

What is a Wildcat?

[rar110]

Ranger with bling. I was meaning to include Ford Everest with extra bling as being in that price range. These have the terrain response selector.

[SBD4]

We are all aware of the spin.
Perhaps credit it with being a little more than spin given the source. I know there's not a lot of new info there, it's about giving some credence to what has been said so far.



...The problem is that 100% of all current Land Rover models are already aimed at the 'Lifestyle Market'.
Well, no not really. There is a big hole in their market coverage, they have luxury (Range Rover) and family/leisure (Discovery) covered, life style/adventure is missing.



...So the real question is, what will set the Defender apart? What will make it deserving of the name 'Defender'?
Ultimately, I believe it can only be it's capability and durability. When it comes to the Defender that is the only thing that matters. We'll soon see.



The 130 sounds interesting. But looking at the 90 and 110 spyshots we've seen they look quite diminutive,
I wouldn't get too hung up on those spy shots... filled in wheel arches, increased belt line padded panels, window apertures changed. It's disguised. It's every bit the size of other full size models. Incidentally, I would consider the "G" wagen "diminutive" too in its standard guise but no one questions its capability.



so the the 130 might be the commercial vehicle? The problem is - to compete in the over supplied dual cab market, the price will need to be more like $35-60K.
If the "G" (which seems to be lauded by all) is starting well north of 100K in commercial form then 60K to 110K is going to work fine. IF a commercial version is released I would hazard a guess it may be cheaper without the bells and whistles added in. Honestly Land Rover will not be interested in competing in that market on price. If it's going to happen they'll make a product that people want and are willing to pay for, that's what they've been doing for a while now.



More capable than a MB G Wagen? Intriguing...but I'm not convinced given the spy shots, we'll see.
Why? What do the spy shots tell you about it's capability? Nothing really to be said until a head to head comparison can be done. All the statement does (and this has been said by Land Rover too) is give us some hope that the brand is focused on making sure the new defender lives up to its name.



At least if there is a 110 wagon version for $60K it will compete on price. But you can bet the base model will be a small capacity 4 or EV! and that the useable work vehicle version will be $80K+
Do you think that a small capacity 4 is unworkable? Interesting as that is what your defender has in it and the small capacity 4's that LR are making now have serious numbers. As for EV, well, that's where it's at. We've all seen the advancement in this space and there is no way that any serious manufacturer can ignore it.


As with every thread on this topic, it's all speculation, but one thing I am certain of is that anyone who wants the replacement to be like the old one can forget it.


From earlier this year...lets hope he is true to his word:
Gerry McGovern Gets Frank About Land Rover Design | Alloy+Grit (http://www.alloyandgrit.com/2018/01/19/gerry-mcgovern-gets-frank-about-land-rover-design/)



Can a vehicle’s perfection lie in its imperfection?




That’s bloody good! Are you an intellectual professor? Ha! [Laughing]

I collect a lot of things related to design. One of the periods I’m particularly fascinated by is Mid-Century Modern, and I collect Italian glass from Murano. I go for this particular technique called ‘submerso’ which is clear glass where color is floated into the glass. It’s just pure art, beautifully done. Interestingly, a lot of that glass, because it’s hand blown, has lots of imperfections in the surface, lots of undulations. If you place a vintage piece next to a modern-day piece that would be made in Murano now, which today will be molded – which can replicate exactly what that [effect] is while taking all the imperfections out – it absolutely loses something. And it looks manufactured.

The irony is, we manufacture vehicles. The difference is that when Defenders were created, the manufacturing techniques were not as good as they are now. They would have loved for them to be very precise but they couldn’t make them like that.

So I think we have to be careful of that with Defender. While I respect our traditionalists, the people who love Defender, we have to be careful we’re not preoccupied with designing a vehicle just for them. Because to be honest, they love the Defender they’ve got and they’ll probably die with it. They probably won’t buy the new one. There will be other people that will.

The new vehicle has to be relevant to a world that has changed massively from when those [Series/Defender] cars were first created. It needs to be of its time technologically. It needs to have the technology features a fully up-to-date vehicle should have. It’s also going to be made in a state of the art assembly plant. So to “create” those imperfections would not be the right thing to do.

I think what the new [Defender] has to do is maybe replicate the charm and the essence of the original, and that’s more around it capabilities, its durability, its ruggedness. And we have to be careful we’re not preoccupied with trying to do a retrospective vehicle or trying to do a modern-day facsimile of what’s gone before. So we shouldn’t be doing the Mini thing, or some of the other [retro] things we’ve seen.

I think people will be quite surprised when they see it. I think a lot of people, even the traditionalists, will smile. But it has to be modern, it has to be of its time, and it has to be able to do what it says it can do on its tin. I haven’t ****ed up yet, and I’m certainly not going to do it with Defender.

[Zeros]

Perhaps credit it with being a little more than spin given the source. I know there's not a lot of new info there, it's about giving some credence to what has been said so far.
If your source is a Land Rover insider, that's great, but from what you've said, they haven't said anything new.

Well, no not really. There is a big hole in their market coverage, they have luxury (Range Rover) and family/leisure (Discovery) covered, life style/adventure is missing. I totally disagree. Lifestyle is all they currently do. Family/Leisure/Luxury/Adventure/Lifestyle - it's all the image of Land Rover - born of vehicles which they no longer build. The hole in the market for Land Rover is a real work vehicle - which some people will choose to use as an 'adventure' vehicle.

Ultimately, I believe it can only be it's capability and durability. When it comes to the Defender that is the only thing that matters. We'll soon see
Capability includes being a Heavy Duty work vehicle, capable of all that previous Defenders were capable of, but using contemporary build methods.

I wouldn't get too hung up on those spy shots... filled in wheel arches, increased belt line padded panels, window apertures changed. It's disguised. It's every bit the size of other full size models. Incidentally, I would consider the "G" wagen "diminutive" too in its standard guise but no one questions its capability If it's got so much padding it's actually smaller than it looks.

If the "G" (which seems to be lauded by all) is starting well north of 100K in commercial form then 60K to 110K is going to work fine. IF a commercial version is released I would hazard a guess it may be cheaper without the bells and whistles added in. Honestly Land Rover will not be interested in competing in that market on price. If it's going to happen they'll make a product that people want and are willing to pay for, that's what they've been doing for a while now. No their current vehicles are all only what wealthy people who live the city want and are willing to pay for. Most people can't afford a current model Land Rover and won't buy an $80-100K vehicle.

Why? What do the spy shots tell you about it's capability? Nothing really to be said until a head to head comparison can be done. All the statement does (and this has been said by Land Rover too) is give us some hope that the brand is focused on making sure the new defender lives up to its name. ?

Do you think that a small capacity 4 is unworkable? Interesting as that is what your defender has in it and the small capacity 4's that LR are making now have serious numbers. As for EV, well, that's where it's at. We've all seen the advancement in this space and there is no way that any serious manufacturer can ignore it. ​A small 4 cylinder diesel is great for a vehicle which sold for $50K and was an economical heavy duty vehicle designed for all walks of life. Yes IF the $60K version has a small 4 and heavy duty it might be ok. But if all the necessary extras that make it capable add up to $80K+ (like D5) people will also expect a larger engine or an EV with significant range.

As with every thread on this topic, it's all speculation, but one thing I am certain of is that anyone who wants the replacement to be like the old one can forget it
The one thing 'you're certain of' is a non issue. ...I don't think anyone wants the replacement to be like the old one. We all already have an old one. Most want a new Defender built for purpose - as a work vehicle, which doesn't mean the 'Lifestyle' market (which includes the previous D4 market).
No offence to D4 owners, but that has always been the difference between Discoveries and Defenders.

From earlier this year...lets hope he is true to his word:
Gerry McGovern Gets Frank About Land Rover Design | Alloy+Grit (http://www.alloyandgrit.com/2018/01/19/gerry-mcgovern-gets-frank-about-land-rover-design/)

I don't think Gerry McGovern knows anything about designing work vehicles. Which is why all current Land Rovers are essentially Range Rovers of different sizes. His spin is transparent IMO

Yep, all speculation, although you seem to think your source knows more than that? ... if so tell us more...?

[SBD4]

... but from what you've said, they haven't said anything new.
Yeah, I already said that, my point was "it's about giving some credence to what has been said so far".



I totally disagree. Lifestyle is all they currently do. Family/Leisure/Luxury/Adventure/Lifestyle - it's all the image of Land Rover - born of vehicles which they no longer build. The hole in the market for Land Rover is a real work vehicle - which some people will choose to use as an 'adventure' vehicle.
I understand where you're coming from but they haven't been building for that market for years. Building for that market virtually sent them broke. It's been moving to luxury ever since the first rangie was built.



Capability includes being a Heavy Duty work vehicle, capable of all that previous Defenders were capable of, but using contemporary build methods.
Yes, if you were to make a heavy duty work vehicle. Like it or not I don't think they are interested in that market.



If it's got so much padding it's actually smaller than it looks.
Really? OK if you say so.



No their current vehicles are all only what wealthy people who live the city want and are willing to pay for. Most people can't afford a current model Land Rover and won't buy an $80-100K vehicle.
I agree, wealthy people in the city AND the country will buy these vehicles off the showroom floor, some will even take them off road, but the secondhand market for them is well and truly alive and well with people who use them for more than just a symbol of affluence. This forum is proof of that.



? Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was referring to the comparison to the "G" giving some hope that the new defender will be capable.



A small 4 cylinder diesel is great for a vehicle which sold for $50K and was an economical heavy duty vehicle designed for all walks of life. Yes IF the $60K version has a small 4 and heavy duty it might be ok. But if all the necessary extras that make it capable add up to $80K+ (like D5) people will also expect a larger engine or an EV with significant range.
Perhaps, but there are plenty of people buying the SD4 D5 in HSE trim - that's more than 100K. the SD4 is 170Kw and 500nm. Who knows how they'll slice and dice the options. For the D4, the S and HSE had the same capability short of an optional eDiff. The difference now is that LR have wised up and realised that not everyone is going offroad and now have low range capability as an option. I doubt they'll do that on the Defender - I should think that they will all have low range. The pricing will be around trim and equipment. Of course that's speculation on my part.



The one thing 'you're certain of' is a non issue. ...I don't think anyone wants the replacement to be like the old one. We all already have an old one.
Indeed, but I think you know that's not what I was implying.



Most want a new Defender built for purpose - as a work vehicle, which doesn't mean the 'Lifestyle' market (which includes the previous D4 market).
No offence to D4 owners, but that has always been the difference between Discoveries and Defenders.
Yep, understood. It's just not happening so I can't understand the constant harping on about it.



I don't think Gerry McGovern knows anything about designing work vehicles. Which is why all current Land Rovers are essentially Range Rovers of different sizes. His spin is transparent IMO
He lives in a different world to the rest of us no doubt about that. Though, I think we can acknowledge that the bloke knows exactly what he is doing and he delivering what the company wants him to. I didn't like the direction he took with the discovery but that doesn't mean I can't see it for what it is. Every new vehicle will lose some existing customers and gain new ones. It seems they are managing to get a lot of new ones which, after all, is what it is all about.



Yep, all speculation, although you seem to think your source knows more than that? ... if so tell us more...?
Yep, he surely knows more than that. Didn't tell me the specifics though - they were made to hand over all cameras/phones etc. The conversation was mainly around how impressed he was with it, target market, what the traditionalists might think of it etc. I didn't try to pry too much. What I am typing up here is only my opinion. I wouldn't say anything more if I knew in the interests of not compromising the individual in question.

Finally, I know where you're coming from and agree that it jars somewhat to have Land Rover head up market in the way that is. I personally would love the next Defender to be truly rugged (Even if pricing is up there), extremely off road capable and versatile. It needs that to maintain any integrity with its history. For people who know nothing of LRs history, I don't think it matters but, I do think it matters to LR.

We shall see....may be you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[veebs]

...Most people can't afford a current model Land Rover and won't buy an $80-100K vehicle.

Oh I don't know about that - around Perth, every second car seems to be a new Prado ($60k - $95k, and usually around the $70k mark), or a 70 series ($75k) or a 200 series ($86k - $126k), or a Patrol ($80k - $100k). This price range isn't a problem, especially considering the extra cash spent on Prados and 70 series getting them up to spec, like lifted suspension, GVM upgrades, widening the rear tracks to match the front (70 series), etc.

The bigger issue will be convincing people that they will be equally reliable, capable, comfortable etc, and that their Toyota and Nissan mates won't make fun of them down on the beach for buying one...

[Zeros]

Oh I don't know about that - around Perth, every second car seems to be a new Prado ($60k - $95k, and usually around the $70k mark), or a 70 series ($75k) or a 200 series ($86k - $126k), or a Patrol ($80k - $100k). This price range isn't a problem, especially considering the extra cash spent on Prados and 70 series getting them up to spec, like lifted suspension, GVM upgrades, widening the rear tracks to match the front (70 series), etc.

The bigger issue will be convincing people that they will be equally reliable, capable, comfortable etc, and that their Toyota and Nissan mates won't make fun of them down on the beach for buying one...

Yup their ‘lifestyle’ market is the wealthy inner suburbs of all our cities. Not everyone lives there.

Agree with the bigger issue... and problem is, focussing all attention on the lifestyle market does nothing for their credibility in terms of reliability or capability.

[DiscoMick]

Cruising around the Northern Beaches of Sydney last week, where there are lots of D4s, plus some D5s, Sports and Rangie Sports, I was thinking that JLR has really targeted the family market. D4s are excellent family wagons with up to 7 seats in a very flexible and practical interior.
Now if they can just make the new Defender rugged, practical, durable and reasonably priced they could have a winner.
After all, plenty of people are financing utes for $50-60k, so that's the sweet spot LR needs to hit.

[Zeros]

“After all, plenty of people are financing utes for $50-60k, so that's the sweet spot LR needs to hit.”

Wishful I reckon Mick. You can almost get a base model Disco Sport for that. LOL

[veebs]

Yup their ‘lifestyle’ market is the wealthy inner suburbs of all our cities. Not everyone lives there.

Plenty of rural farmers and people living in remote mining towns are rolling around with these types of vehicles too. My point was that the price point is not an unachievable one for the general population.

[Zeros]

Plenty of rural farmers and people living in remote mining towns are rolling around with these types of vehicles too. My point was that the price point is not an unachievable one for the general population.

You mean $50-60K work utes. Sure if it’s a work vehicle. Not so much if it’s a ‘lifestyle’ SUV. Any New model Land Rovers? Not many I reckon.

[veebs]

You mean $50-60K work utes. Sure if it’s a work vehicle. Not so much if it’s a ‘lifestyle’ SUV. Any New model Land Rovers? Not many I reckon.

I know what I mean. Yes, the vehicles down the mine shaft, and the 'paddock bashers' are old clunkers, however the miner's personal ride, and the station owners town car are often pretty flash.

They may not buy Land Rovers, but that is not because they are too expensive.

[cjc_td5]

You mean $50-60K work utes. Sure if it’s a work vehicle. Not so much if it’s a ‘lifestyle’ SUV. Any New model Land Rovers? Not many I reckon.

Plenty of farmers drive GXL 70 series utes when they could have a Workmate version. Bling does sell sometimes...

[Zeros]

Plenty of farmers drive GXL 70 series utes when they could have a Workmate version. Bling does sell sometimes...

:Rolling::Rolling:I wouldn’t call a 70 GXL bling! You mean it’s got power windows? :-)

But yes, as I keep saying, IF the Defender is a real work ute / wagon it might have a shot, but I doubt it will be...which means even wealthy farmers won’t buy a D5 or Rangie as a town car either.

[Zeros]

They may not buy Land Rovers, but that is not because they are too expensive.

No it’s because Land Rovers are no longer designed for the bush.

[veebs]

But yes, as I keep saying, IF the Defender is a real work ute / wagon it might have a shot, but I doubt it will be...which means even wealthy farmers won’t buy a D5 or Rangie as a town car either.

Come again? A farmer will only buy a flash town car if there is also a simpleton, "work" edition under the same marque? What bull****.

A GX 70 series retails for $78k, but as you keep saying, it will never sell, because people only want to buy $50-60k vehicles. Toyota are such fools! Clearly they have completely misunderstood their market.

[Zeros]

Come again? A farmer will only buy a flash town car if there is also a simpleton, "work" edition under the same marque? What bull****.

Um...how many Land Rover SUV’s are they buying?


A GX 70 series retails for $78k, but as you keep saying, it will never sell, because people only want to buy $50-60k vehicles. Toyota are such fools! Clearly they have completely misunderstood their market.

No, you’re missing my point. The reason the new Defender won’t sell is not because of the price. It’s because it’s unlikely to be a real work vehicle. ...A GX 70 is a HD work vehicle. Then the GX 70 owner will be more likely to buy a 200 Cruiser as a town car than a D5.

It’s obvious that without a credible work vehicle, Land Rover have lost the country market.

[veebs]

No, you’re missing my point. The reason the new Defender won’t sell is not because of the price. It’s because it’s unlikely to be a real work vehicle. ...A GX 70 is a HD work vehicle. Then the GX 70 owner will be more likely to buy a 200 Cruiser as a town car than a D5.

It’s obvious that without a credible work vehicle, Land Rover have lost the country market.

I'm missing it, because your point has shifted since I first replied. You started by announcing LR would fail because it was surely going to be too expensive.

Land rover lost the country market years ago - long before the Defender stopped production. The lack of credible work vehicle can't be the reason then, can it?

[Zeros]

I'm missing it, because your point has shifted since I first replied. You started by announcing LR would fail because it was surely going to be too expensive.

Land rover lost the country market years ago - long before the Defender stopped production. The lack of credible work vehicle can't be the reason then, can it?

We were debating work utes in the $50-60K band vs city centric SUV's in the $80K+ band. I would be very surprised if the new Defender is $60K. If it is, it will be smaller than the classic Defender or 70 series and competing in the dual cab / mid-duty SUV market. If it's full size like a 70 series it will be $80K+ and potentially sell well. But I doubt it will be.

To me the new Defender spy shots look like a D4 type family 'adventure' vehicle which will be in the same price bracket as the D5. As such it won't sell in country areas because its not a work vehicle and if a 70 series owner really wanted a Land Rover town car (which I doubt) it would be more likely to be a D5 because they already have a work vehicle.

Sure I may be entirely wrong. But that's what I think. You don't have to think the same.

If you think rural buyers are going to by the new Defender that's great! but I can't see it...because as you say, "Land Rover lost the country market years ago." What I'm saying is they're not going to get it back with the new Defender by the looks of it either - which will affect their urban SUV sales too.

[rar110]

I can see JLR wanting to slot a product in between the Toyota 70 series and G Professional. It’s a big price gap between these two. It would be pretty easy to offer a single cab bare bones edition, with more features than both.

Business people like farmers are trying new vehicles like the Mahindra. A different market again.

[blackrangie]

They are absolutely going for a different market. The existing defender base was a 20K unit P/A demand, at that rate the new vehicle would never succeed. They are targeting the "Life Style" market.

some months ago I had a conversation with someone who has sat their backside in one of these earlier this year and basically said:



Aiming for life style market.
"Sort of like the D4"
expected price range 60K to 110K AUD
Based on D5 platform (hardened)
90, 110 coming and 130 too which apparently is "huge"
priority is the 90 and 110
Current defender owners most likely will not like it
Its capability is very impressive - G wagon is nothing (This, I think, is the most important point of all as the credibility of the brand rests on this being true)


Take all of the above with a grain of salt - things change.

While they may not be catering to the current defender market that's not to say that they will not in the future. After all, there was and is a commercial version of the the Disco (ie no carpets etc.). The main impediment to getting the commercial version here in Oz if one was produced would be LRA themselves - as I understand it, they decide what comes here unfortunately and they most likely will not want to muddy their premium status.

it would be nice to have some indication of where things are being pointed, we really just have to wait and see....like we've been doing.Capability, reliability and looks are the only things that mater, I think they will do their best to nail all of these.

[blackrangie]

Perhaps credit it with being a little more than spin given the source. I know there's not a lot of new info there, it's about giving some credence to what has been said so far.



Well, no not really. There is a big hole in their market coverage, they have luxury (Range Rover) and family/leisure (Discovery) covered, life style/adventure is missing.



Ultimately, I believe it can only be it's capability and durability. When it comes to the Defender that is the only thing that matters. We'll soon see.



I wouldn't get too hung up on those spy shots... filled in wheel arches, increased belt line padded panels, window apertures changed. It's disguised. It's every bit the size of other full size models. Incidentally, I would consider the "G" wagen "diminutive" too in its standard guise but no one questions its capability.



If the "G" (which seems to be lauded by all) is starting well north of 100K in commercial form then 60K to 110K is going to work fine. IF a commercial version is released I would hazard a guess it may be cheaper without the bells and whistles added in. Honestly Land Rover will not be interested in competing in that market on price. If it's going to happen they'll make a product that people want and are willing to pay for, that's what they've been doing for a while now.



Why? What do the spy shots tell you about it's capability? Nothing really to be said until a head to head comparison can be done. All the statement does (and this has been said by Land Rover too) is give us some hope that the brand is focused on making sure the new defender lives up to its name.



Do you think that a small capacity 4 is unworkable? Interesting as that is what your defender has in it and the small capacity 4's that LR are making now have serious numbers. As for EV, well, that's where it's at. We've all seen the advancement in this space and there is no way that any serious manufacturer can ignore it.


As with every thread on this topic, it's all speculation, but one thing I am certain of is that anyone who wants the replacement to be like the old one can forget it.


From earlier this year...lets hope he is true to his word:
Gerry McGovern Gets Frank About Land Rover Design | Alloy+Grit (http://www.alloyandgrit.com/2018/01/19/gerry-mcgovern-gets-frank-about-land-rover-design/)Last two paragraphs say it all, very promising. Imo the defenders features, looks and capability are going to be so good, people won't care how modern it is.

[blackrangie]

I don't think Gerry McGovern knows anything about designing work vehicles. Which is why all current Land Rovers are essentially Range Rovers of different sizes. His spin is transparent IMO

Yep, all speculation, although you seem to think your source knows more than that? ... if so tell us more...?Thats pretty unfair on Gerry McGovern, have you worked with him?

[blackrangie]

Oh I don't know about that - around Perth, every second car seems to be a new Prado ($60k - $95k, and usually around the $70k mark), or a 70 series ($75k) or a 200 series ($86k - $126k), or a Patrol ($80k - $100k). This price range isn't a problem, especially considering the extra cash spent on Prados and 70 series getting them up to spec, like lifted suspension, GVM upgrades, widening the rear tracks to match the front (70 series), etc.

The bigger issue will be convincing people that they will be equally reliable, capable, comfortable etc, and that their Toyota and Nissan mates won't make fun of them down on the beach for buying one...Its all marketing (I've been out with 15 4x4s on 1 trip and an 80series had the most go wrong, infact 15k, including engine (desiel) and driveline+ steering breakages, most makes are fairly equal these days, all have their gremlins, find them fix them enjoy the car of your choice.
More features can and has in the past meant more to go wrong, however technology and car design has matured to the point where imo feature rich new 4x4s (land rover included) will get you much further between breakdowns than thier older more basic counterparts.

If Landover add add ruggedness and capability to the above, which they have pretty much sworn they have, then they and we will have a comparitivly reliable, feature rich, safe, durable and rugged adventure vehicle.

[blackrangie]

Yup their ‘lifestyle’ market is the wealthy inner suburbs of all our cities. Not everyone lives there.

Agree with the bigger issue... and problem is, focussing all attention on the lifestyle market does nothing for their credibility in terms of reliability or capability.79 series, rangers and 200 series lifestyle vehicles are pretty much all over AU

[blackrangie]

“After all, plenty of people are financing utes for $50-60k, so that's the sweet spot LR needs to hit.”

Wishful I reckon Mick. You can almost get a base model Disco Sport for that. LOLYep I'm thinking 70-75k minimum

[blackrangie]

I know what I mean. Yes, the vehicles down the mine shaft, and the 'paddock bashers' are old clunkers, however the miner's personal ride, and the station owners town car are often pretty flash.

They may not buy Land Rovers, but that is not because they are too expensive.Im seeing many more d5s and rrs in rural areas now, Orange (dubbo nearby) has its own dealer and tons of them getting around

[blackrangie]

:Rolling::Rolling:I wouldn’t call a 70 GXL bling! You mean it’s got power windows? :-)

But yes, as I keep saying, IF the Defender is a real work ute / wagon it might have a shot, but I doubt it will be...which means even wealthy farmers won’t buy a D5 or Rangie as a town car either.Haha..real work ute, define that please

Seen plenty of farm owners etc with new land rovers, evoques and disco sports for wife etc..new landys are not p38s, they are hugely more dependable if maintained properly.

[blackrangie]

No it’s because Land Rovers are no longer designed for the bush.They are, but also for the road and safety

[blackrangie]

We were debating work utes in the $50-60K band vs city centric SUV's in the $80K+ band. I would be very surprised if the new Defender is $60K. If it is, it will be smaller than the classic Defender or 70 series and competing in the dual cab / mid-duty SUV market. If it's full size like a 70 series it will be $80K+ and potentially sell well. But I doubt it will be.

To me the new Defender spy shots look like a D4 type family 'adventure' vehicle which will be in the same price bracket as the D5. As such it won't sell in country areas because its not a work vehicle and if a 70 series owner really wanted a Land Rover town car (which I doubt) it would be more likely to be a D5 because they already have a work vehicle.

Sure I may be entirely wrong. But that's what I think. You don't have to think the same.

If you think rural buyers are going to by the new Defender that's great! but I can't see it...because as you say, "Land Rover lost the country market years ago." What I'm saying is they're not going to get it back with the new Defender by the looks of it either - which will affect their urban SUV sales too.If rural buyers are allready buying the d4, d5, sport, dsport, evoque then they will 100% buy the defender if it lives up to its pre release landrover hype.

[Arapiles]

Come again? A farmer will only buy a flash town car if there is also a simpleton, "work" edition under the same marque? What bull****.

A GX 70 series retails for $78k, but as you keep saying, it will never sell, because people only want to buy $50-60k vehicles. Toyota are such fools! Clearly they have completely misunderstood their market.


As a farmer's son I don't like seeing "simpleton" and "farmer" in the same sentence. [smilebigeye]

Perhaps you meant "simple" or better even, "basic"?

[scarry]

If rural buyers are allready buying the d4, d5, sport, dsport, evoque then they will 100% buy the defender if it lives up to its pre release landrover hype.

I can guarantee in Western Qld you won't see an LR product very often,if at all.Maybe the occasional tourist vehicle, but thats it.

With the nearest dealer,or for that matter,any mechanic that knows something about them,somewhere between 500 to 1000K's away,why would anyone bother?

Once over the Great Divide,its T country and thats it.

LR will never get into the regional market,and they definitely aren't trying,producing a crop of look alike Range Rovers that are targeted at city people.

As for the new Defender,who knows,but i doubt regional buyers will be interested in it,no matter what it is like.

[Summiitt]

Vehicles in bush areas are purchased based on distance to dealerships..Landrover has very average coverage in the regional towns, unlike Toyota and holden..
The Landcruiser 79 is a very basic and good package, and sales show that the price, despite being absurd, is paid because you can still get 15-20years of service out of them..and they have no competion at that price.

[blackrangie]

I can guarantee in Western Qld you won't see an LR product very often,if at all.Maybe the occasional tourist vehicle, but thats it.

With the nearest dealer,or for that matter,any mechanic that knows something about them,somewhere between 500 to 1000K's away,why would anyone bother?

Once over the Great Divide,its T country and thats it.

LR will never get into the regional market,and they definitely aren't trying,producing a crop of look alike Range Rovers that are targeted at city people.

As for the new Defender,who knows,but i doubt regional buyers will be interested in it,no matter what it is like.Just because dealers are not there yet, it doesn't mean 1 car is better than the other or more reliable, it just means they are easier to fix in that area and easier to buy.

Big call on the regional buyers, and putting all regional buyers into 1 basket is a massive generalization.

[blackrangie]

Vehicles in bush areas are purchased based on distance to dealerships..Landrover has very average coverage in the regional towns, unlike Toyota and holden..
The Landcruiser 79 is a very basic and good package, and sales show that the price, despite being absurd, is paid because you can still get 15-20years of service out of them..and they have no competion at that price.With a track massively(4inches!) different front to back, an alternator that fails on nearly every decent offroad trip, no auto option,2700rpm @ 110kph, fake snorkel, bad handbrake..all fixable but you must add all that onto the purchase price if you want to use it offroad properly. Above is already around 35-40k.

Real price new is 100k, thats before you start the real mods

125k easy with mods

Or just get this

2018 Mercedes-Benz G-Class Professional Wagon on sale in Australia | CarAdvice (https://www.caradvice.com.au/579444/2018-mercedes-benz-g-class-professional-wagon-on-sale-in-australia/)

[blackrangie]

Some new project numbers not seen before

Long wait for Aussie Land Rover Defender - motoring.com.au (https://www.motoring.com.au/long-wait-for-aussie-land-rover-defender-116392/)

Its project number is L851 and there will be the usual plethora of body styles, as well as a battery electric model before 2025.

The model line-up is expected to include a Defender Sport, codenamed L860, and the mechanical package will be built around a modern aluminium architecture with independent rear suspension.

[nick_e]

Haha..real work ute, define that please

Seen plenty of farm owners etc with new land rovers, evoques and disco sports for wife etc..new landys are not p38s, they are hugely more dependable if maintained properly.

By 'maintained properly' do you mean preventatively replacing pretty much every component of the vehicle every 5 year period?

[scarry]

By 'maintained properly' do you mean preventatively replacing pretty much every component of the vehicle every 5 year period?

In Land Rover terms that means going to a good Indie.[tonguewink]

[scarry]

Some new project numbers not seen before

Long wait for Aussie Land Rover Defender - motoring.com.au (https://www.motoring.com.au/long-wait-for-aussie-land-rover-defender-116392/)

Its project number is L851 and there will be the usual plethora of body styles, as well as a battery electric model before 2025.

The model line-up is expected to include a Defender Sport, codenamed L860, and the mechanical package will be built around a modern aluminium architecture with independent rear suspension.

Maybe there are only going to be wagons,nothing at all about a utility of any type.

They could be thinking the utility market,particularly dual cabs,is way too competitive?

If JLR Aus look like taking orders end of year,that isn't really a long way off.

[blackrangie]

By 'maintained properly' do you mean preventatively replacing pretty much every component of the vehicle every 5 year period?Nah just as per service manual, and not when something goes wrong.

Some people wait for stuff to go wrong, others prevent it happening in the first place, with any car that starts with finding its from the factory issues and rectifying them or improving them.

[blackrangie]

Maybe there are only going to be wagons,nothing at all about a utility of any type.

They could be thinking the utility market,particularly dual cabs,is way too competitive?

If JLR Aus look like taking orders end of year,that isn't really a long way off.Old article but interesting, if the defender takes off like velar and ipace (some are saying ipace is better than tesla) are, I would say the defender will branch out into every possible varriant MLA allows and thats commercially viable.

2019 Land Rover Defender ute (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/2019-land-rover-defender-ute)

If you look closely at the wagon mules the camo could be hiding a ute even, also consider some dont have spare wheel on back, why? Wild theory but could be a fake rear door and surround with ute under it.

Another article just speculation.

"What we don’t know, and what Land Rover seems to be denying at this stage, is the possibility of a Defender ute sometime in the future. With the Defender wagon switching to the aluminium monocoque platform, a ute may have to be constructed on a new and unique traditional separate chassis platform; so it could be some years away yet, if it comes at all."

This one seems more certain, a lot of articles talk about a large range of body styles, if its popular they will come, but 110 and 90 first i think.

"We've been busy gathering more details on the new Land Rover Defender, codenamed L851 and due on sale in showrooms in 2020 - bringing the world-famous-but-dormant nameplate back from the dead. It is now certain that Land Rover will launch a Defender Sport model, as well as myriad bodystyles - and a battery electric version is in the works too, slated for launch in 2024."





https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190206/1ad2501ccebfaafca0081e7def3b4f90.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190206/8a3bad9b96e59d416df678ef0a62b40b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190206/be3dcbed9437f4ebb2d254498eac25ce.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190206/6fe229356611a2c0ad68f481d3c45b63.jpg

[scarry]

That is good info


This is a little more up to date,i think,but may have been on here before though.

Seen that many articles on this vehicle,its hard to keep up with it all.

2020 Land Rover Defender revealed during off-road testing (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/2020-land-rover-defender-revealed-during-off-road-testing)

[blackrangie]

That is good info


This is a little more up to date,i think,but may have been on here before though.

Seen that many articles on this vehicle,its hard to keep up with it all.

2020 Land Rover Defender revealed during off-road testing (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/2020-land-rover-defender-revealed-during-off-road-testing)Nice one!

"but we are expecting a range of variants in both the SWB and LWB bodies that will also include more off-road focused models and special off-road SVX editions. Just don’t expect the commercial style vehicles of Land Rovers in the past that have served military and NGOs around the globe so well for generations."

Yeah that's why i post all the new articles on the other thread so when ya look at defender news ya just look for new dates.

[Zeros]

"Just don’t expect the commercial style vehicles of Land Rovers in the past that have served military and NGOs around the globe so well for generations."

So no longer a Defender? ...Or is it now a Climate Defender?

[DiscoMick]

I can't see any reason why there wouldn't be commercial versions. The vehicle has to meet crash and safety rules, like any other vehicle, but that's normal now. Stripping it down to a basic specification shouldn't be a problem. It was done with the basic version of the G wagon bought by the Army.
I also don't think the lack of obvious utes in the pics we've seen proves anything. After all, these are camouflaged vehicles, so who knows what is underneath the camo?
Looking at the pics. there is a distinct vertical line behind the side doors, so why couldn't there be a ute under the camo?
I assume LR will want to offer as many versions as possible. It would be very strange if that didn't include utes, since they are such big sellers worldwide.

[blackrangie]

I can't see any reason why there wouldn't be commercial versions. The vehicle has to meet crash and safety rules, like any other vehicle, but that's normal now. Stripping it down to a basic specification shouldn't be a problem. It was done with the basic version of the G wagon bought by the Army.
I also don't think the lack of obvious utes in the pics we've seen proves anything. After all, these are camouflaged vehicles, so who knows what is underneath the camo?
Looking at the pics. there is a distinct vertical line behind the side doors, so why couldn't there be a ute under the camo?
I assume LR will want to offer as many versions as possible. It would be very strange if that didn't include utes, since they are such big sellers worldwide.I think they will but maybe not straight up.

[blackrangie]

"Just don’t expect the commercial style vehicles of Land Rovers in the past that have served military and NGOs around the globe so well for generations."

So no longer a Defender? ...Or a Climate Defender perhaps.Haha

[scarry]

I can't see any reason why there wouldn't be commercial versions. The vehicle has to meet crash and safety rules, like any other vehicle, but that's normal now. Stripping it down to a basic specification shouldn't be a problem. It was done with the basic version of the G wagon bought by the Army.
I also don't think the lack of obvious utes in the pics we've seen proves anything. After all, these are camouflaged vehicles, so who knows what is underneath the camo?
Looking at the pics. there is a distinct vertical line behind the side doors, so why couldn't there be a ute under the camo?
I assume LR will want to offer as many versions as possible. It would be very strange if that didn't include utes, since they are such big sellers worldwide.


Not many utes around with IRS,and i bet 100% they won't go back to live axles.

And for something different,we will just have to wait and see[biggrin]

[blackrangie]

Not many utes around with IRS,and i bet 100% they won't go back to live axles.

And for something different,we will just have to wait and see[biggrin]Is there any utes with IRS snd Monocoque?
Is the lack of air susp the reason you dont see it much?

[JDNSW]

I don't know about current production, but there have been plenty of utes in the past with IRS and unitary construction - VW comes immediately to mind, or Citroen, probably plenty of others. A locally built one fifty years ago was the Austin 1800.

[DiscoClax]

Commodore utes from around 2000 are all IRS and monocoque. Anything can be done. But some ways are cheaper and easier than others... Hence leaf springs on a live axle with drums is still the norm and doggedly held onto by so many.

[blackrangie]

Commodore utes from around 2000 are all IRS and monocoque. Anything can be done. But some ways are cheaper and easier than others... Hence leaf springs on a live axle with drums is still the norm and doggedly held onto by so many.Hmm looks like its not as big a deal as some make out then, just has to be engineered strong enough.

Hopefully the do monocoque and subframe for Susp, subframe allows suspension "dropping" like the RRS and RRV kit avail in states, however by the looks of the mule shots it jacks pretty high already.

[DiscoMick]

Range Rovers seem to do very well off road.

[Zeros]

Range Rovers seem to do very well off road.

On weekend jaunts LOL [bigwhistle] The mythology that the Range Rover is excellent off road is rarely put into practice.

...not many working the cattle stations, farms, mines or even extended overlanding that I can see.

[blackrangie]

On weekend jaunts LOL [bigwhistle] The mythology that the Range Rover is excellent off road is rarely put into practice.

...not many working the cattle stations, farms, mines or even extended overlanding that I can see.Haha isn't the weekend when most people go four wheel driving [emoji6]

Seriously though you would have to admit, Working the cattle station farms and Mines are not the target market of the Range Rover and never have been.

In terms of off road capability Range Rover have always been at the forefront, whether people use it's breadth of capability is another thing.

We were on at North Stradbroke over the break in our Range Rover classic and it was amazing and saw multiple Brand new Range Rover sports driving down the beach gliding across the top of very soft deep sand, making it look so easy compared to other big heavy rigs. Defenders were also plentiful as were Discovery 1 and 2's. It seems that people that live in the harsh salty environment of Islands love Land Rovers, same on Moreton especially south.

If you gave me a standard Range Rover classic and a standard Range Rover Vogue I know which one I would be more comfortable in going for a big lap in right now.. believe it or not it would be the Range Rover Vogue.

[Zeros]

“Seriously though you would have to admit, Working the cattle station farms and Mines are not the target market of the Range Rover and never have been.”

Correct, but they used to be for Defender. And in this thread we’re only talking about Range Rover in the context of what the new Defender might or might not be.

[JDNSW]

Strictly speaking, the Defender has never had the target market of cattle stations farms and mines.

This was the target market for the original Landrover, and it was the major player in this market from about 1950 to 1975. By then the market was slipping, partly because the shortage of supply for Landrovers in the 1960s allowed the Japs in. And they took advantage of this entry, evolving their offerings rapidly, while Landrover languished as the cash cow for BL through the seventies, and as the Japs made inroads into the car market in Australia, enabling them to spread their dealers as BL's dealers shrank, as their car market evaporated in an atmosphere of poor quality and second rate designs.

The last gasp in this market was the 110, which retained a foothold with coils and full time four wheel drive that the competition lacked, and they were cheap. And the army bought a lot of them.

Two years (1989-91) off the market left the Defender, when it was introduced, mainly selling to the recreational market, albeit still with a residual workhorse market. The major mining sector market ceased to be available as safety ratings became mandatory there in the 1990s. Lack of dealers in rural areas saw the residual farm and station market shrink to virtually nothing well before the end of Defender production. And the city dealers as well as JRA tended to regard the Defender as an embarrassment among their Discoveries and Rangerovers, as they pitched their appeal to the urban luxury market.

So, as I see it, the Defender has never had this as its target market in Australia, and its predecessors had largely lost this market by the end of the eighties.

[DiscoMick]

Haha isn't the weekend when most people go four wheel driving [emoji6]

Seriously though you would have to admit, Working the cattle station farms and Mines are not the target market of the Range Rover and never have been.

In terms of off road capability Range Rover have always been at the forefront, whether people use it's breadth of capability is another thing.

We were on at North Stradbroke over the break in our Range Rover classic and it was amazing and saw multiple Brand new Range Rover sports driving down the beach gliding across the top of very soft deep sand, making it look so easy compared to other big heavy rigs. Defenders were also plentiful as were Discovery 1 and 2's. It seems that people that live in the harsh salty environment of Islands love Land Rovers, same on Moreton especially south.

If you gave me a standard Range Rover classic and a standard Range Rover Vogue I know which one I would be more comfortable in going for a big lap in right now.. believe it or not it would be the Range Rover Vogue.
Yes, I noticed the same thing when on North Straddie over the New Year in our Defender. Lot of Defenders and RRSs ambling about.
We never looked like getting stuck, even when we had to do a three-point U-turn with the camper on to avoid a sudden rise in the tide which had blocked the beach. The only vehicles I saw have problems on the beach were Tritons, strangely enough. That might be mainly caused by driving style, not the vehicle, of course.

[blackrangie]

Yes, I noticed the same thing when on North Straddie over the New Year in our Defender. Lot of Defenders and RRSs ambling about.
We never looked like getting stuck, even when we had to do a three-point U-turn with the camper on to avoid a sudden rise in the tide which had blocked the beach. The only vehicles I saw have problems on the beach were Tritons, strangely enough. That might be mainly caused by driving style, not the vehicle, of course.Wasn't you was it? [emoji1787] very nice!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190208/9f38187d5654ea7ee77f8a8298e063be.jpg

[DiscoMick]

No, mine has silver alloys.

[JDNSW]

........ That might be mainly caused by driving style, not the vehicle, of course.

In my experience, sand driving is about 60% driver, 30% tyre pressure and 10% vehicle.

But driving style can be a very strong influence in the type of vehicle a driver selects, so that it can look to an outsider as if it is the vehicle.

[weeds]

In my experience, sand driving is about 60% driver, 30% tyre pressure and 10% vehicle.

But driving style can be a very strong influence in the type of vehicle a driver selects, so that it can look to an outsider as if it is the vehicle.

Hey John, my experience has been slightly different....in south East Queensland a lot of new owner first experience off road is quite often beach driving...a little different to the desert where is only soft gettin on and off the beach and at high tide.

For beach driving for the many that I have introduced is 80% tyre pressure, 20% driver 0% vehicle, I say 0% vehicle as for the many different makes and models I and friends/family/work have never been bogged.

[blackrangie]

Hey John, my experience has been slightly different....in south East Queensland a lot of new owner first experience off road is quite often beach driving...a little different to the desert where is only soft gettin on and off the beach and at high tide.

For beach driving for the many that I have introduced is 80% tyre pressure, 20% driver 0% vehicle, I say 0% vehicle as for the many different makes and models I and friends/family/work have never been bogged.Good for a laugh "i got bogged at inskip" facebook page, i Googled the other day. Nearly every type of 4x4 under the sun gets bogged or breaks. I would say tyre pressures and momentum are the biggest causes, which are both driver error.
New defender if it has CTIS will help the newbies [emoji1787]

[Zeros]

I agree with John. “...sand driving is about 60% driver, 30% tyre pressure and 10% vehicle.” The 10% vehicle relates primarily to ground clearance and weight of the vehicle.

[weeds]

Good for a laugh "i got bogged at inskip" facebook page, i Googled the other day. Nearly every type of 4x4 under the sun gets bogged or breaks. I would say tyre pressures and momentum are the biggest causes, which are both driver error.
New defender if it has CTIS will help the newbies [emoji1787]

Yes view that page regularly.....pretty much every example is 100% tyre pressure, I’ve rarely thought that I needed extra momentum, air down and cruise along.

Low tyre pressure means pretty much anybody and or 4WD will be fine.

[Red90]

Yep it is all tire pressure. That said a lighter vehicle with bigger tyres can run lower pressures.

[blackrangie]

Yep it is all tire pressure. That said a lighter vehicle with bigger tyres can run lower pressures.You mean lower pressure drop mate?

[DiscoClax]

Less weight on a bigger tyre means you can run a lower pressure.

[blackrangie]

Less weight on a bigger tyre means you can run a lower pressure.Would it also mean you could run higher pressures, as your just sitting on top of the sand?

We run 35s on 16x10s ususlly between 2.7t to 3t on sand and sit between 16 and 20psi depending how soft.

[DiscoClax]

Well pressure is really just force divided by area. Force=weight in this case. Area=Tyre volume. Huge tyres = low pressures required. Low weight = low pressures required. Both combined = super low pressures required. Reverse also true :)
BTW I'm not saying that 3t is low weight. Just an example. Have a look at the load rating of your 35s and at what pressure and then scale that back to 750kg per corner and see what pressure you need with to hold the car up... *simplistic example for the purposes of illustrating the concept. Actual tyre load curve is not linear to zero.
The 31x10.5s on my little 7x5' box trailer I run at about 14psi when lightly laden. With a tonne of dirt in it I'll take them up to low 20s. And that's ample.
Hay River Track last year in the Disco (heavy wall 235/85s) I ran as low as 10/12psi over the Simpson dunes no worries. Ran 16/18psi on the track itself. And we were very heavily loaded. Others we travelled with decided on highway pressures and they got bogged (a lot) and stuff got smashed. Last time I (stupidly) ran around 22psi across the dunes on fatter 265/75s and had to work at it and carry speed. This time just walked up each one leisurely in comfort. And we went the harder way this time...

[blackrangie]

Well pressure is really just force divided by area. Force=weight in this case. Area=Tyre volume. Huge tyres = low pressures required. Low weight = low pressures required. Both combined = super low pressures required. Reverse also true :)
BTW I'm not saying that 3t is low weight. Just an example. Have a look at the load rating of your 35s and at what pressure and then scale that back to 750kg per corner and see what pressure you need with to hold the car up... *simplistic example for the purposes of illustrating the concept. Actual tyre load curve is not linear to zero.
The 31x10.5s on my little 7x5' box trailer I run at about 14psi when lightly laden. With a tonne of dirt in it I'll take them up to low 20s. And that's ample.
Hay River Track last year in the Disco (heavy wall 235/85s) I ran as low as 10/12psi over the Simpson dunes no worries. Ran 16/18psi on the track itself. And we were very heavily loaded. Others we travelled with decided on highway pressures and they got bogged (a lot) and stuff got smashed. Last time I (stupidly) ran around 22psi across the dunes on fatter 265/75s and had to work at it and carry speed. This time just walked up each one leisurely in comfort. And we went the harder way this time...Cheers good info

[blackrangie]

Nice find!..Well if that is legit, that is extremely promising, looks like you could get in there with ya muddy gummies in the high country. Very minimal electronics below knee level in pic, 3 seater front? Or just more legroom?

[blackrangie]

Looking again it kindof does look like a 3rd middle seat?

[DiscoClax]

Not sure if legit, but the article states that the original poster was immediately told to remove it and legal action was to follow by the JLR PR director. If true this would be the first real leak of the new Defo, which has been controlled better than any new launch I've ever seen anywhere by anyone. JLR would be fuming...
Not sure how a manual shifter will fit into that interior, but maybe they'll be bucket seats, floor shift, with console (conventional) on that variant? I agree the pic does look like a centre seat.
I like the whimsy. Should be more of it. Gives it a bit of character, which it'll need.

[Red90]

There will be no manual option. They can’t integrate a manual with all of the self drive tech.

[Zeros]

It looks like an EV.

[Homestar]

Have removed the pic and links the same as I have done in 'It won't be retro' as the pics do appear to be stolen and most sites that have hosted them have removed them too and the legal action appears to be real. Please do not post these again until officially released by Land Rover.

Thanks.

[weeds]

Have removed the pic and links the same as I have done in 'It won't be retro' as the pics do appear to be stolen and most sites that have hosted them have removed them too and the legal action appears to be real. Please do not post these again until officially released by Land Rover.

Thanks.

Ya might want to remove the link from blackrangie post where he has quoted.

[DiscoClax]

Sorry Gav :oops2:

[Homestar]

Sorry Gav :oops2:

All good mate. 👍

[blackrangie]

Hey Guys,

Shall we rename to this thread to the correct code now?

Looks a little strange imo to visitors to the site.

lr-l663kmi-au-en (https://lrdxforms.landrover.com/lr-au-en/servlet/SmartForm.html?formCode=lr-l663kmi-au-en&_ga=2.30569407.12574098.1556515992-587511180.1531959837)

Notice the code in Land Rovers link.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190829/6ac822e58cfa3ca5f55d9fd875aa8e29.jpg

[incisor]

no

once all the stuff is released officially then will go thru it

[blackrangie]

no

once all the stuff is released officially then will go thru itHaha cool, just thought that was pretty official and trying to help.