New Defender Pricing

[roverrescue]

Some say that the Defender will be slotted above the Discovery and below the Range Rover lineup. Hence, it’s very likely that pricing will be more peppered.

I think the article saying peppered pricing is journo speak for $100k defenders!!!!

No way the hairdresser deefer will compete with hilux unless pricing starts in the 50s
My guess is a L663 dual cab will be $25k more than a hilux immediately pricing it out of the major market segment?


Steve

[blackrangie]

Some say that the Defender will be slotted above the Discovery and below the Range Rover lineup. Hence, it’s very likely that pricing will be more peppered.

I think the article saying peppered pricing is journo speak for $100k defenders!!!!

No way the hairdresser deefer will compete with hilux unless pricing starts in the 50s
My guess is a L663 dual cab will be $25k more than a hilux immediately pricing it out of the major market segment?


Steve
Bare basic defender will no doubt be more than a hilux as they will be far more advanced and capable

[roverrescue]

Nissan Navara NP300
Price Range: $31,990 (4x4 DX single cab c/chassis manual) - $54,490 (ST-X dual cab utility automatic)

Toyota Hilux
Price Range: $36,990 (4x4 Workmate single cab c/chassis manual) - $55,990 (4x4 SR5 dual cab utility automatic)

Ford Ranger
Price Range: $38,790 (4x4 XL single cab c/chassis manual) - $60,090 (4x4 Wildtrack dual cab utility automatic)

Mazda BT-50
Price Range: $36,850 (4x4 XT single cab c/chassis manual) - $53,790 4x4 GT dual cab utility automatic)

Mitsubishi Triton
Price Range: $32,490 (4x4 GLX single cab c/chassis manual) - $47,790 (4x4 Exceed dual cab utility)


Volkswagen Amarok V6 Ultimate ($67,990 plus on-road costs)


Just for a laugh i Squizzled the above numbers
Premis 1 : DC Utes hold biggest growing market segment
Premis 2 : Utes are will be the only unique offering between new deefer and the 27 other JLRSUV products
Premis 3 : JLR claim the new defender must sell broadly

Soooo unless JLR bring it to market in the 50-60 range it won't gain broad market appeal

D5 start at 70 - my guess is the hairdresser deefer will start at just under 80 and JLR will sell 2/10ths of **** all units???

Steve

[ramblingboy42]

the Defender was never competitive pricewise with anything on the market.

why would it change?

i looked at 2nd hand prices the other day.......you've got to be kidding.

[roverrescue]

Feel free to strip this Pricing speculation dribble out of a nothing thread about naming blackrangie

Rambling boy from the get go JLR have said the new defender will have to move big numbers
As opposed to old gender which as you said never competed in the broader market on sales terms
JLR has said they want to compete in the numbers game which puts it in the game I listed above
Heck if you read the article mentioned in this thread you would have seen

Dr. Ralf Speth mumbled something that goes like this: “All our vehicles have to make money.” For what it’s worth, that’s the course of nature in the automotive industry, not greed.

S

[Drizzle]

"Some say that the Defender will be slotted above the Discovery and below the Range Rover lineup. Hence, it’s very likely that pricing will be more peppered."

2019 Land Rover Defender Already Testing On Public Roads - autoevolution (https://www.autoevolution.com/news/2019-land-rover-defender-already-testing-on-public-roads-111793.html)

[DiscoMick]

They've said they want to beat the Hilux , so it can't be significantly more expensive.

[Pickles2]

Roverrescue & Disco,...both good observations.
However JLR have made several "snippet" comments about the "New" Defender, one of the many being that there will be "3 levels" of Defender, so maybe they are looking for Defender to also compete with vehicles, not only within the range detailed (roverrescue) very well in this thread, but maybe also above it, (can't see them competing below it) where there are many more varieties on the market......
I haven't got the slightest idea, but I'm looking forward to the time when I do!
Pickles.

[roverrescue]

Just thinking now and sorry this isn't pricing
But htf do you build a monocoque ute?

Ah of course it will have to be a hairdresser built in tub to maintain rigidity of cab

No chassis rails to plonk on a proper tray or pod

If the new defender arrives it will be in name only

And cost $100k

😜

Steve

[DiscoMick]

I'm sure there will be a workhorse level, a recreational level and a luxury level. They will want to sell as many as possible.

[JDNSW]

Just thinking now and sorry this isn't pricing
But htf do you build a monocoque ute?
.........

Steve

I imagine that it will be done the same way that the Australian manufacturers built traybacks and cab/chassis utes based on monocoque sedans. It can be done, and can be done successfully.

[roverrescue]

Hmmm

I'm skeptical ;)

S

[loanrangie]

Until we see one in the metal its all speculation as to how much and will it sell, our market is pitiful so it will be aimed at the US and Europe.

[DiscoMick]

Why shouldn't they be monocoque? How many Pajeros fell apart while winning the Dakar Rally?

[roverrescue]

Discomick I don't care for SUV wagon whatevers
Show me tough ute with proper tray not tub in monococque

After just watching the velar "simplicity" propaganda
The L663 is gonna be diet lite caffeine free soy mocha latte of a workhorse?

S

[rick130]

[snip]
The L663 is gonna be diet lite caffeine free soy mocha latte of a workhorse?

S

Otherwise known in the café trade as a 'Why would you bother?' [biggrin]

Steve, thinking pricing and market segment wouldn't it be positioned against its traditional rival the Land Cruiser 79 Series?

Or do we all think it'll be more FJ Cruiser ? [bigsad]

[blackrangie]

Otherwise known in the café trade as a 'Why would you bother?' [biggrin]

Steve, thinking pricing and market segment wouldn't it be positioned against its traditional rival the Land Cruiser 79 Series?

Or do we all think it'll be more FJ Cruiser ? [bigsad]
79 series will go the way of the Defender soon

[Tote]

Just thinking now and sorry this isn't pricing
But htf do you build a monocoque ute?

Ah of course it will have to be a hairdresser built in tub to maintain rigidity of cab

No chassis rails to plonk on a proper tray or pod

If the new defender arrives it will be in name only

And cost $100k

��

Steve

Ford did it in 1971 with the XY 4wd so it can't be too hard.......

Regards,
Tote

[frantic]

We should look at fords latest to see the defenders future. Steel comp chassis and aluminium body developed in partnership with JLR. Now if you want to develop a ute that will outsell the biggest selling mid sized ute in the world , hilux, it would make sense to do a bit of joint development and consulting with the maker of the single biggest selling full size ( and XL-xxxxl 😀)ute in the world , F series.
P.s we are a significant market for ute/4x4 makers as we in the past where the second largest buyer of toymota land cruisers and the hilux regularly gets No1 above corolla/commodore and in the 4wd segment it's only matched by ranger in sales numbers.

[incisor]

And even when the f trucks had a chassis they were cracking in predictable places..

Be interesting to see where things end up

[rick130]

Ford did it in 1971 with the XY 4wd so it can't be too hard.......

Regards,
Tote

Except they were notorious for flexing and cracking.... :D

[VladTepes]

even when the f trucks had a chassis they were cracking in predictable places..


Yep, but at least is WAS predictable. [biggrin]

I still want a Ford Bronco (and shares in BP)

[Davo]

Sigh . . . I used to take this "new Defender" stuff seriously, interested in what that dopey company might come up with, assuming they'd finally get their act together after twenty or thirty years. Then the speculation started to drag on, and on, and now we're looking at not just a year or two of it, but years of everyone wondering what, (if anything at all), will happen next. Now I think it's a farce.

I am so sceptical about JLR not managing to stuff this up that I hereby declare that should JLR actually: 1) Build this thing; and 2) It really is a workhorse; and 3) It's priced realistically; and 4) It could actually be competition for the Hilux, I will . . . well, I'm open to suggestions.

(Now look, nothing illegal, or involving nudity and Toyotas at the same time!)

[DiscoMick]

Buy one?

[roverrescue]

Davo the odds are short on 1
JLR will cash in on the defender name at some stage

Buuuuttttt 2,3 & 4 are such long odds that I see your unspecified bet and double it!!!

Steve

[Pickles2]

Even the press appears to be drying up on this one.
After a few years of writing continual "myth & hearsay", I reckon they've now tired of repeating that sort of stuff as well, because in reality, they know,.....nothing....just like everybody else.
Defender will come though, I'm 100% certain, and I reckon JLR will have released some REAL details by late 2018, but that could also be "myth & hearsay"!
Pickles.

[87County]

Looks like I'm stuck with my 1980s 110s - I'm not unhappy :)

I don't think I'd cope with dealer/warranty servicing & bs anyway

[Davo]

Even the press appears to be drying up on this one.
After a few years of writing continual "myth & hearsay", I reckon they've now tired of repeating that sort of stuff as well, because in reality, they know,.....nothing....just like everybody else.
Defender will come though, I'm 100% certain, and I reckon JLR will have released some REAL details by late 2018, but that could also be "myth & hearsay"!
Pickles.

Even if something does finally appear, what a typically British way to do business. It's a race now between if a new Defender turns up and whether Brexit will actually happen!

[Tins]

Why shouldn't they be monocoque? How many Pajeros fell apart while winning the Dakar Rally?

You do realise that the Dakkar cars share absolutely nothing with a Pajero bar the name, don't you?

[discojools]

If you wanna see an independent suspension Defender look up Bowler Bulldog. Maybe JLR will take something from it.

[scarry]

Looks like I'm stuck with my 1980s 110s - I'm not unhappy :)

I don't think I'd cope with dealer/warranty servicing & bs anyway

You are correct there,and i add, not just the horrific workmanship,but also the ridiculous overpricing of everything.

It is the worst part of buying a new LR,and i have done it 5 times🙃

Subsequently none ever went back for servicing to the dealers,only warranty work.

Just to add,i run a fleet of Toyota service vans,which go to the dealer for all services.No problems with them at all.

[Davo]

Well, ultimately that is the problem: either no dealerships or crappy ones, so it doesn't even matter if they built some world-beating 4WD as there would be nowhere to buy one or to get it fixed. The whole situation is such a farce it would make quite a good satirical TV show.

[Zeros]

If the next Defender is anything like the just released G Professional Wagon and priced in the $60-80K range, it will be hard to beat. Can't wait to see what they come up with.

The G Professional Wagon looks fantastic, but it's $110K. A capable Disco 5 is $90K+ A 70 series Land Cruiser is $70K+

...2018 is fast approaching, but still no Defender news. Must be something soon!

[richardb]

just looking at the price of disco's, the td4 starts at approx $74k, the sd4 at $81k and the td6 at $89k. so the defender will probably do with the td4 engine to keep costs down? not sure how much the air susp option is, but it can't be cheap so coil springs will probably be standard? defender will need to start at $50-60k to be competitive, which is still more than hilux et al.

[ramblingboy42]

old defenders are in the $50k-$60k price now.

there is no new Land Rover on the market for $60k now.

be realistic about pricing a new Defender.

[Tote]

Ranger Wildtrack - $68,888
Amarok V6 Ultimate - $76300
Hilux SR5 - $61319
Navara ST-X - $61058

Prices taken from a quick browse on Carsales at new vehicles once you eliminate the few over the top entries.

I would bet that the new Defender would follow the market leader and pitch it's mainstream model at somewhere around the $70K point. LR are a premium brand and for that I would expect a better level of fit and finish than the Ranger Wildtrack. Whether they release a poverty pack I don't know but I doubt you will see much reduction in price for a "fleet" model as that isn't where the sweet spot is in the market and looking at the Discovery pricing it pans out like this:
TD4 S - $82264 - Povo Pack
TD6 S - $90855 - Povo Pack V6
SD4 SE - $96440 - Midrange 4Cyl
TD6 SE - $99,990 - Midrange V6

Not much in the above for a deep discount for a low end model, lets look at the Ranger market which makes an interesting comparison:

Wildtrack - $68,888
XLT, Midrange model - $64521
XL 4x4 3.2 5 cyl - $38,880, interestingly the 2.2 motor seems to be hard to find but I don't think LR would see much point in competing in the $40K space

Interesting to note where the demand sits in the ute market, the most individual new car ads are for the XLT midrange model and the next highest number of ads is for the Wildtrack at 881.


Ford have a 25K difference in price between the midrange and the base model. LR have a $14K difference between the 4 cyl and $9100 between the 6cyl models. I reckon the Defender is much more likely to follow the Disco pricing model and chase the cashed up tradie market with the Defender with a $65K starting price up to $100K for one with all the fruit.

Regards,
Tote

[rammypluge]

But htf do you build a monocoque ute?

Ah of course it will have to be a hairdresser built in tub to maintain rigidity of cab

No chassis rails to plonk on a proper tray or pod
The Holden Crewman was essentially monocoque with rear rails, with tub and tray available.

Volkswagon also did a dual cab kombi.

[frantic]

Ranger Wildtrack - $68,888
Amarok V6 Ultimate - $76300
Hilux SR5 - $61319
Navara ST-X - $61058

Prices taken from a quick browse on Carsales at new vehicles once you eliminate the few over the top entries.

I would bet that the new Defender would follow the market leader and pitch it's mainstream model at somewhere around the $70K point. LR are a premium brand and for that I would expect a better level of fit and finish than the Ranger Wildtrack. Whether they release a poverty pack I don't know but I doubt you will see much reduction in price for a "fleet" model as that isn't where the sweet spot is in the market and looking at the Discovery pricing it pans out like this:
TD4 S - $82264 - Povo Pack
TD6 S - $90855 - Povo Pack V6
SD4 SE - $96440 - Midrange 4Cyl
TD6 SE - $99,990 - Midrange V6

Not much in the above for a deep discount for a low end model, lets look at the Ranger market which makes an interesting comparison:

Wildtrack - $68,888
XLT, Midrange model - $64521
XL 4x4 3.2 5 cyl - $38,880, interestingly the 2.2 motor seems to be hard to find but I don't think LR would see much point in competing in the $40K space

Interesting to note where the demand sits in the ute market, the most individual new car ads are for the XLT midrange model and the next highest number of ads is for the Wildtrack at 881.


Ford have a 25K difference in price between the midrange and the base model. LR have a $14K difference between the 4 cyl and $9100 between the 6cyl models. I reckon the Defender is much more likely to follow the Disco pricing model and chase the cashed up tradie market with the Defender with a $65K starting price up to $100K for one with all the fruit.

Regards,
Tote

Actually if you have a look in 4x4 oz, the new Ranger Raptor will be around $75-80k, but , it has a 10 speed auto and massive suspension(custom fox shocks! ) upgrade, as well as COIL sprung rear with a diff lock, ohh and 33in rubber.
Ford Ranger Raptor 2018 Off-Road Truck | Ford Australia (https://www.ford.com.au/commercial/ranger/raptor/'searchid=ac10_FoA&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqfDw49jP2QIVRomPCh2YsgzTEAAYASAA EgKzT_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)
Also VW has introduced a cheaper 3.0v6tdi at $55k from memory
Access Denied (https://www.motoring.com.au/volkswagen-launches-cut-price-v6-amarok-sportline-108154/)

But if an aluminium bodied jeep scrambler arrives in the last 1/4 of this year , it will be interesting times to say the least. The only thing is local dealers will be screaming for the 3.o tdv6 but may only get the 2,2 tdi 4cyl.
Access Denied (https://www.motoring.com.au/spy-pics-jeep-scrambler-ute-110514/)

[rammypluge]

You can get a V6 Amarok for $49k.

[tc_s1]

We should look at fords latest to see the defenders future. Steel comp chassis and aluminium body developed in partnership with JLR. Now if you want to develop a ute that will outsell the biggest selling mid sized ute in the world , hilux, it would make sense to do a bit of joint development and consulting with the maker of the single biggest selling full size ( and XL-xxxxl [emoji3])ute in the world , F series.
P.s we are a significant market for ute/4x4 makers as we in the past where the second largest buyer of toymota land cruisers and the hilux regularly gets No1 above corolla/commodore and in the 4wd segment it's only matched by ranger in sales numbers.The Australian connection for the Ranger is being promoted in the States as a massive (rightfully so) benefit of the platform - The 2019 Ford Ranger Is the Mid-Size Pickup to Beat | Outside Online (https://www.outsideonline.com/2274671/2019-ford-ranger-mid-size-pickup-beat)

[JDNSW]

The Holden Crewman was essentially monocoque with rear rails, with tub and tray available.

Volkswagon also did a dual cab kombi.

VW also did a single cab trayback kombi, and trayback single cab Holdens were also produced.

[Tote]

Had a bit of a laugh at that article..... "But while this new North American-market Ranger shares the Aussie truck’s basic platform, it’s been thoroughly re-engineered to meet our crash safety standards". What does that engineering work entail - removing the seat belts, removing the oil from the shock absorbers in and making sure that the tyres are under inflated from the factory?

Interesting that the diff lock is an option and that it has a 10 speed auto and dual range.

Regards,
Tote

[donh54]

Probably got the Mustang crash safety team to give it a going over!

[rammypluge]

Had a bit of a laugh at that article..... "But while this new North American-market Ranger shares the Aussie truck’s basic platform, it’s been thoroughly re-engineered to meet our crash safety standards". What does that engineering work entail - removing the seat belts, removing the oil from the shock absorbers in and making sure that the tyres are under inflated from the factory?

Interesting that the diff lock is an option and that it has a 10 speed auto and dual range.

Regards,
ToteWhen the seatbelts get taken out, the front airbags get replaced with bigger ones, to handle obesity.

[DiscoMick]

When the seatbelts get taken out, the front airbags get replaced with bigger ones, to handle obesity.Aren't the American crash standards higher than ours?

[cripesamighty]

Standards are similar with some being higher, but they also have to account for many more idiots not wearing seat belts. Therefore airbags are larger and deployment force is moderated for impact conditions.

[rammypluge]

Dont they have higher standards for impacts below 8km/h or something, to reduce insurance claims or something? (So its not about safety.)

[rammypluge]

If a mainstream base model dual cab can go for $40-45k, then why cant a defender equivalent (maybe with coils) go for $50-55k ?

[Zeros]

If a mainstream base model dual cab can go for $40-45k, then why cant a defender equivalent (maybe with coils) go for $50-55k ?

It might if it’s just another mid-duty dual cab (which most would argue is where the smart money is). But then it won’t be a Defender IMO. IE: a full size HD 4x4 capable of competing with 70 series and G Wagen. ...and $50k would make it look a bit silly against the baby Disco sport which starts at $60k (should be $35k).