GM sells Opel & Vauxhall to Peugot.

[Pickles2]

Don't know whether this has been posted before, I just noticed it.
Interesting to some Aussies, because Astra has just been relaunched here, and as Peugot has a great range of cars in the Astra segment, it will be interesting to see what models they sell.
I thought the "new" Commodore was based on Opel too?
Pickles.

[incisor]

Was the new astra any better than the older ones?

[DiscoMick]

Yes.
Also has implications for the UK because of Brexit, which may result in a 10 percent tariff on British products imported into the Common Market. Why would French-based Peugeot invest in plants in Britain if their products would cost 10 percent more in Europe than if the same cars were made in France? Seems likely to cost British jobs.
Another example of why Britain exiting it's largest market is just dumb, I think.

[rangieman]

Yes.
Also has implications for the UK because of Brexit, which may result in a 10 percent tariff on British products imported into the Common Market. Why would French-based Peugeot invest in plants in Britain if their products would cost 10 percent more in Europe than if the same cars were made in France? Seems likely to cost British jobs.
Another example of why Britain exiting it's largest market is just dumb, I think.

Funny how Opel Vauxhall is German anyway .
Even tho Vauxhall has a plant in the Uk at the end of the day its still a German company.
I doubt the new Astra are any better than the old .
Poor Peugot buying such a ****ty brand why would you really.

[Eevo]

Poor Peugot buying such a ****ty brand why would you really.
market share

[loanrangie]

Funny how Opel Vauxhall is German anyway .
Even tho Vauxhall has a plant in the Uk at the end of the day its still a German company.
I doubt the new Astra are any better than the old .
Poor Peugot buying such a ****ty brand why would you really.

But both Vauxhall and Opel were bought by GM in the 1920's, so Opel hasnt been German owned for nearly 100 years.
So we will get French dunnydoors :no2:.

[Eevo]

i got a peugeot 206 gti

great little car

[cuppabillytea]

Funny how Opel Vauxhall is German anyway .
Even tho Vauxhall has a plant in the Uk at the end of the day its still a German company.
I doubt the new Astra are any better than the old .
Poor Peugot buying such a ****ty brand why would you really.
They could just dump the Brands, as they are fairly well unloved, and use the plants to make Peugots.

[rangieman]

But both Vauxhall and Opel were bought by GM in the 1920's, so Opel hasnt been German owned for nearly 100 years.
So we will get French dunnydoors :no2:.

You might say that but all the Astras , Vectras , Barinas ect We tested at the Pg were all German underpinnings .
In all honesty i dont think GM had much input into the brand but maybe they did hence what a pile of crap they were and are[bigwhistle]

[Pickles2]

The major "Opel" vehicle sold in Aus was the Astra, & the TS Astra was an outstanding success. We bought a new one of them, and later we owned an AH SRI Astra with the 2.2L engine, which was better, although a bit pricier.
When the Astra was on sale in these times, it was price competitive, and a pretty solid car, with a good reputation, & Holden sold heaps of 'em. My sister had a Corolla, which she traded on an Astra,...she's not really into cars, but she described the Corolla as "tinny" compared to her Astra.
But now it's a different ball game, the Astra is pricey, and there is a lot more competition......I don't think it will sell in large numbers.
Pickles.

[rangieman]

The major "Opel" vehicle sold in Aus was the Astra, & the TS Astra was an outstanding success. We bought a new one of them, and later we owned an AH SRI Astra with the 2.2L engine, which was better, although a bit pricier.
When the Astra was on sale in these times, it was price competitive, and a pretty solid car, with a good reputation, & Holden sold heaps of 'em. My sister had a Corolla, which she traded on an Astra,...she's not really into cars, but she described the Corolla as "tinny" compared to her Astra.
But now it's a different ball game, the Astra is pricey, and there is a lot more competition......I don't think it will sell in large numbers.
Pickles.

What a load of crap where do you get a outstanding success [bigrolf]
You must be the only one that thinks so[bigwhistle]
The reliability was crap the performance was crap the fuel economy was crap the build quality was crap the price of parts was horrendous if you could get them .
How many cars do you know of that needs the engine removed just to change a alternator[bighmmm]
Mate you and your one eye gm loving affair needs a good dose of reality at times [bigwhistle]
Meat pies and Holdens huh[thumbsupbig]

[DoubleChevron]

"Citroen Commodore" coming to a holden dealer near you [bigrolf] What will all the boguns do with a front wheel drive diesel sedan [wink11]

Hey, maybe they'll put proper hydraulic suspension under the commodores so we can get a decent large family car again.

seeya,
shane l.

[Eevo]

How many cars do you know of that needs the engine removed just to change a alternator[bighmmm]

nissan300zx

[PhilipA]

Some new Astras ( I think the hatchback) will be produced in Korea.

So it's easy for Holden to resource the Astra or whatever they will call it to Korea.

A bigger problem I guess will be the Commodore replacement. Chevys here we come.

The new Cadillac is reputed already earmarked for OZ.
Regards Philip A

[Pickles2]

What a load of crap where do you get a outstanding success [bigrolf]
You must be the only one that thinks so[bigwhistle]
The reliability was crap the performance was crap the fuel economy was crap the build quality was crap the price of parts was horrendous if you could get them .
How many cars do you know of that needs the engine removed just to change a alternator[bighmmm]
Mate you and your one eye gm loving affair needs a good dose of reality at times [bigwhistle]
Meat pies and Holdens huh[thumbsupbig]
Lol.
Like I said, we've had two Astras & they were both fine....particularly the TS CDX, which had climate control, heated sports seats, woodgrain etc...a friend of mine referred to it as a mini Caprice.
Commodores,..had a few of them too, 6 cyl for company cars, & V8s for toys, and yep,..loved them too.
I've also owned a few Fords, AMG Mercedes & a couple of Audis as well as the Defender,..also owned a Morris & an Austin, had good time with all of 'em.
Don't know what you've had, but if you had a good/bad run with whatever, I would see no reason to call your experiences, and I quote "crap", but of course, you are, as I am, entitled to your opinion.
Oh, nearly forgot, perhaps you'd like to advise what make/model of vehicle is good, in your books?
Pickles.

[rangieman]

Lol.
Like I said, we've had two Astras & they were both fine....particularly the TS CDX, which had climate control, heated sports seats, woodgrain etc...a friend of mine referred to it as a mini Caprice.
Commodores,..had a few of them too, 6 cyl for company cars, & V8s for toys, and yep,..loved them too.
I've also owned a few Fords, AMG Mercedes & a couple of Audis as well as the Defender,..also owned a Morris & an Austin, had good time with all of 'em.
Don't know what you've had, but if you had a good/bad run with whatever, I would see no reason to call your experiences, and I quote "crap", but of course, you are, as I am, entitled to your opinion.
Oh, nearly forgot, perhaps you'd like to advise what make/model of vehicle is good, in your books?
Pickles.

You had 2 that makes them a astounding success [bigrolf]
I have never owned one [bighmmm]
But i will let you on to a not so secret [wink11]
Not too long ago i worked for holden at their PG for 19 years so im pretty sure what i know of them is bloody close to the description i give.
And believe me i have done plenty of k/m and know the workings of them better than most.
I rest my case[wink11]

[incisor]

Lol.
Like I said, we've had two Astras & they were both fine....particularly the TS CDX, which had climate control, heated sports seats, woodgrain etc...a friend of mine referred to it as a mini Caprice.
Commodores,..had a few of them too, 6 cyl for company cars, & V8s for toys, and yep,..loved them too.
I've also owned a few Fords, AMG Mercedes & a couple of Audis as well as the Defender,..also owned a Morris & an Austin, had good time with all of 'em.
Don't know what you've had, but if you had a good/bad run with whatever, I would see no reason to call your experiences, and I quote "crap", but of course, you are, as I am, entitled to your opinion.

pretty common knowledge astra's were / are regarded as crap by the trade...

I had a Vectra from new and it took 6 months for holden to sort the vibrations it used to generate through the cab..

to their credit they did sort it in the end by changing the engine mounts.

I sold it when I wound up the company I was running at the time.

many disgruntled astra buyers changed over to the ford focus of the same era...

[PAT303]

The reliability was crap the performance was crap the fuel economy was crap the build quality was crap the price of parts was horrendous
How many cars do you know of that needs the engine removed just to change a alternator[bighmmm]

The SIDI commodore ticks all those box's,as does the V8 Land Cruiser. Pat

[PAT303]

Bloody hell Pickles,you can't get a break on Holden/Commodore threads. Pat

[loanrangie]

Bloody hell Pickles,you can't get a break on Holden/Commodore threads. Pat

Thats because good holdens werent made after the WB.

[rangieman]

Thats because good holdens werent made after the WB.
You reckon[bighmmm]
Im yet to be convinced there ever was[bigwhistle]

[Pickles2]

You had 2 that makes them a astounding success [bigrolf]
I have never owned one [bighmmm]
But i will let you on to a not so secret [wink11]
Not too long ago i worked for holden at their PG for 19 years so im pretty sure what i know of them is bloody close to the description i give.
And believe me i have done plenty of k/m and know the workings of them better than most.
I rest my case[wink11]
But what, as I asked, is your prefered make/model?
Pickles.

[incisor]

Thats because good holdens werent made after the WB.

surely you mean FC [bigrolf]

mates WB van was forever spitting front ball joints.

[loanrangie]

surely you mean FC [bigrolf]

mates WB van was forever spitting front ball joints.

Well up to EH at least.

[incisor]

Well up to EH at least.

anything with a sideplate motor but after the FE/FC they were all butt ugly.......

[biggrin]

[Pickles2]

Bloody hell Pickles,you can't get a break on Holden/Commodore threads. Pat
It's all good Pat.
There are plenty of people who wouldn't own a Landrover either, they probably think they have their good reasons too!!....Our Defender is the first Landrover I've owned & I love it, just as I've loved most of the other cars I've chosen to own, for my own reasons, at the time!
I've had a good run with all my cars, a lot more than two Commodores, several modified by Mr. Brock.
It's a forum, so all opinions are good!
Pickles.

[Eevo]

regardless if a commodore crap or not, it did sell 1.5million cars

[DiscoMick]

Funny how Opel Vauxhall is German anyway .
Even tho Vauxhall has a plant in the Uk at the end of the day its still a German company.
I doubt the new Astra are any better than the old .
Poor Peugot buying such a ****ty brand why would you really.
Opel is GM and hasn't been German for a long time.
The point wasn't if the company was French or German, it was that the plant in the UK will face a 10 per cent penalty selling into Europe so it will be at a disadvantage compared with the same car made in Europe.
Actually the UK will be doing well if the tariff is only 10 percent as there is talk of it being up to 30 percent on some British products. The Europeans are fed up with Britain's self-indulgent grandstanding and seem unlikely to do them any favors.
Business is also very unimpressed with Brexit, which it regards as a patriotic delusion, and is already shifting from Britain to Europe. For example the banks are moving 100,000 jobs from London to Brussels and Bonn.
That's why LR has opened a plant in Slovakia, which may make the new Defender, to keep the price down.

[Sitec]

i got a peugeot 206 gti

great little car


Peugeots have always been regarded as tinny, and the predecessor to the 206 GTi was the 205 GTi. Tinny tho it was, it was a go-kart!! If you think the 206 is fun, find someone with a 205!! There's not many here, but there are a couple in Adelaide! Back in the 90's (ha, like it was sooo long ago!!), there were two options... Peugeot 205 GTi or Golf Mk 2 GTi.. I ran Golf GTI's and GTD's as I wanted to survive any accident that may have occurred, but, weight wise the Pug was lighter and faster! :)

[Sitec]

The Europeans are fed up with Britain's self-indulgent grandstanding and seem unlikely to do them any favors.
Business is also very unimpressed with Brexit, which it regards as a patriotic delusion, and is already shifting from Britain to Europe. For example the banks are moving 100,000 jobs from London to Brussels and Bonn.


And the older generation British (and Euro's) are fed up with Europe's 'free flow' open approach to border control, which has not only caused mass migration into the UK, but had also put several fairly unsettled countries only one boarder away from a life in the UK.. (Picture Australia attached to the Middle East if you will..). Granted Brexit will have some negatives (lots if you are of the younger generation who think that all races, religions and creed can get along swimmingly)... But, having moved away from a rapidly changing UK 10 years ago, where a huge percentage of lower paid jobs (including one of mine) are taken by Polish, Indian, and other neighbouring countries, and where the city centers of some of the larger poorer towns now have a higher percentage of incomers than locals, I for one am glad to A, be out of there, and B, all for Brexit. For those who doubt me, it is worth a plane trip there to have a look around, and I don't mean the sites, landmarks and all that stuff, I mean the back end of London, Birmingham, Coventry, Manchester.... Take a look at what's really going on. Then come back and tell me its patriotic delusion. If Australia is not wise and sensible about its policies within the next few years, then it will suffer the same fait. To a certain extent it already is. #Note, this is my view and opinion, and not meant to offend!#.

Re the Vauxhall's being bought by Peugeot.. the Astra's, Corsa's (Barina's here), Zafira's and Vectra's have to be some of the most uninspiring cars I've driven. The diesels kept going, but the car fell apart around the engine. There were lots of them, everywhere in the UK! Parts were cheep and plentiful. Would I own one? Nah!! Eevo's comment about the Commodore is very true tho.. They can't be that bad, as they sold a huge amount of them! Would I own one? Nope. Been spoilt with German metal. :)

[V8Ian]

And the older generation British (and Euro's) are fed up with Europe's 'free flow' open approach to border control, which has not only caused mass migration into the UK, but had also put several fairly unsettled countries only one boarder away from a life in the UK.. (Picture Australia attached to the Middle East if you will..). Granted Brexit will have some negatives (lots if you are of the younger generation who think that all races, religions and creed can get along swimmingly)... But, having moved away from a rapidly changing UK 10 years ago, where a huge percentage of lower paid jobs (including one of mine) are taken by Polish, Indian, and other neighbouring countries, and where the city centers of some of the larger poorer towns now have a higher percentage of incomers than locals, I for one am glad to A, be out of there, and B, all for Brexit. For those who doubt me, it is worth a plane trip there to have a look around, and I don't mean the sites, landmarks and all that stuff, I mean the back end of London, Birmingham, Coventry, Manchester.... Take a look at what's really going on. Then come back and tell me its patriotic delusion. If Australia is not wise and sensible about its policies within the next few years, then it will suffer the same fait. To a certain extent it already is. #Note, this is my view and opinion, and not meant to offend!#.

Re the Vauxhall's being bought by Peugeot.. the Astra's, Corsa's (Barina's here), Zafira's and Vectra's have to be some of the most uninspiring cars I've driven. The diesels kept going, but the car fell apart around the engine. There were lots of them, everywhere in the UK! Parts were cheep and plentiful. Would I own one? Nah!! Eevo's comment about the Commodore is very true tho.. They can't be that bad, as they sold a huge amount of them! Would I own one? Nope. Been spoilt with German metal. :)
That trend was started in the early '80s with the Gemini.

[pop058]

That trend was started in the early '80s with the Gemini.

Diesel Gemini. Having a flashback Ian [biggrin]

[DiscoMick]

And the older generation British (and Euro's) are fed up with Europe's 'free flow' open approach to border control, which has not only caused mass migration into the UK, but had also put several fairly unsettled countries only one boarder away from a life in the UK.. (Picture Australia attached to the Middle East if you will..). Granted Brexit will have some negatives (lots if you are of the younger generation who think that all races, religions and creed can get along swimmingly)... But, having moved away from a rapidly changing UK 10 years ago, where a huge percentage of lower paid jobs (including one of mine) are taken by Polish, Indian, and other neighbouring countries, and where the city centers of some of the larger poorer towns now have a higher percentage of incomers than locals, I for one am glad to A, be out of there, and B, all for Brexit. For those who doubt me, it is worth a plane trip there to have a look around, and I don't mean the sites, landmarks and all that stuff, I mean the back end of London, Birmingham, Coventry, Manchester.... Take a look at what's really going on. Then come back and tell me its patriotic delusion. If Australia is not wise and sensible about its policies within the next few years, then it will suffer the same fait. To a certain extent it already is. #Note, this is my view and opinion, and not meant to offend!#.

Re the Vauxhall's being bought by Peugeot.. the Astra's, Corsa's (Barina's here), Zafira's and Vectra's have to be some of the most uninspiring cars I've driven. The diesels kept going, but the car fell apart around the engine. There were lots of them, everywhere in the UK! Parts were cheep and plentiful. Would I own one? Nah!! Eevo's comment about the Commodore is very true tho.. They can't be that bad, as they sold a huge amount of them! Would I own one? Nope. Been spoilt with German metal. :)
Britain and other developed countries including Australia and the USA certainly have problems but I don't believe they were caused by immigrants.
Globalisation means multinationals shift production to cheaper countries, leaving the citizens of the developed countries to fight over what's left. The losers blame the immigrants because they don't understand the real underlying causes.
Stopping immigration won't cause those multinationals to bring those jobs back to Britain, the USA or Australia. Will JLR close its Slovakian factory and bring the jobs back to Britain? Why would they? They care about profits, not nationalism.
Anyway, this should be a separate thread, so that's all I'll say.

[Pickles2]

But what, as I asked, is your prefered make/model?
Pickles.
So, you don't have one?
In which case, what cars have you owned during your driving career?
Pickles.

[Pickles2]

pretty common knowledge astra's were / are regarded as crap by the trade...

I had a Vectra from new and it took 6 months for holden to sort the vibrations it used to generate through the cab..

to their credit they did sort it in the end by changing the engine mounts.

I sold it when I wound up the company I was running at the time.

many disgruntled astra buyers changed over to the ford focus of the same era...
G'Day Dave, I also know a few who have owned them.
But, I nearly bought one myself, I was after a 2004/5 ZC I think it was, with the 155 KW 3L V6, and I was after the top of the range CDXi model. I spoke to my local Holden Dealer (family owned for 50 yrs, since closed), where I knew the Service Manager who was one of the original Holden Dealer Team "Mules", who was on Brock's Torana on the occasion of his first Bathurst victory.
He told me that He'd had one as his "company car" and that it'd just been sold,.."a very complex car" he said, "be very careful if it's out warranty"!...so I never bought one!...but I still "notice" them when I see one!
Pickles.

[cuppabillytea]

So, you don't have one?
In which case, what cars have you owned during your driving career?
Pickles.
That's a good question Pickles, worthy of a new thread, if there isn't one already.

As for Holden: Now that it's only a badge who really cares what ends up un their show rooms?
Holden was never really 'Australian" anyway.
Even Ford, which never claimed to be an Australian Brand, was more australian at least in design and development
Australians love to be deluded, especially when it comes to Brand Loyalty, so it will be interesting to see how the spin doctors win us over, with Holden show rooms full of Seppo cars. It'll be like that Macca's Burger, with a Blue Ensign stuck in it, I saw on the side of a Bus.

[Pickles2]

That's a good question Pickles, worthy of a new thread, if there isn't one already.

As for Holden: Now that it's only a badge who really cares what ends up un their show rooms?
Holden was never really 'Australian" anyway.
Even Ford, which never claimed to be an Australian Brand, was more australian at least in design and development
Australians love to be deluded, especially when it comes to Brand Loyalty, so it will be interesting to see how the spin doctors win us over, with Holden show rooms full of Seppo cars. It'll be like that Macca's Burger, with a Blue Ensign stuck in it, I saw on the side of a Bus.
I hear what you say.
D'you wanna start that thread, I was thinking of doing similar, I've owned several Commodores & driven many more, including P.B.'s infamous "Director" that cost him plenty, but over a lifetime, I haven't really have brand "loyalty",...just buy what I like at the time,..even had a bit of fun with a 1985 Ford Bronco XLT for a few years,...don't think I could afford the fuel now!
Pickles.

[cuppabillytea]

I hear what you say.
D'you wanna start that thread, I was thinking of doing similar, I've owned several Commodores & driven many more, including P.B.'s infamous "Director" that cost him plenty, but over a lifetime, I haven't really have brand "loyalty",...just buy what I like at the time,..even had a bit of fun with a 1985 Ford Bronco XLT for a few years,...don't think I could afford the fuel now!
Pickles.
Why not? There's probably one already somewhere but I'll give it a go and see what happens.

Brand loyalty can be a subconscious thing or even inherited like your Religion, Football Team, Football code, Political preference, etc, etc.

[DiscoMick]

The latest Astra was given a very positive review in Wheels.