H4 LED light globes?

[EastFreo]

Has anyone tried the Philips or IPF LED h4 light globes in their Defenders?

i just upgraded my bulbs to the Philips extreme vision which are a big improvement.

[DiscoMick]

Planning to do it soon. Glad to hear it works.

[alien]

Can you clarify "a big improvement" please.
Are you getting better distance or spread on high beam?
Is low beam usable when you dip down with an oncoming vehicle?
What are they like after driving with the lights on for a few hours?

I find brighter isn't always better as the fatigue factor after 4-5 hours comes into play.
I'd consider this if its a improvement over the standard globes with a decent relay and wire kit fitted.

[EastFreo]

I have found a much better spread on low beam than what I had before. Also appear to have much better distance albeit I haven't used them in the country yet. That will be next weekend.

Middle of last year I had a relay put in and the auto electrican upgraded the bulbs. These were brighter but one low beam blew. When I changed them I was a little disappointed to find the bulbs were Repco cheapies!

anyway, I found these extreme vision were the brightest ones I could find in the halogen Range and I am really happy.

What I was wondering though is whether it would be worth trying the LED ones next time. They are a lot more expensive but still a big saving on changing over the whole headlight. Also I have to say I prefer the traditional headlight look of the Defender.

[Jan]

Has anyone tried the Philips or IPF LED h4 light globes in their Defenders?

i just upgraded my bulbs to the Philips extreme vision which are a big improvement.

Just replacing the globes always seems such a controversial topic - but I can understand the search for such. I did the wire loom and relay upgrade together with Osram Nightbreaker Unlimited 60/55W. Sure there is much improved lighting - but when I switch on the Hella HID accessory lights - everything is just swathed in "arc"-like white. There also seems every year to be an even "more improved" version of the H4 standard halogen bulbs - especially in the Phillips & Osram ranges. And then of course the "rally" or "off-road" 100W or 110W or even 130W...for which the upgraded loom and relays really come into play. Personally I feel the reflector, lens and bulb should be an originally manufactured unit - especially for head lamps. Found this site very good for replacing both OEM or LED bulbs/globes - their Defender only goes to 2006-2007 - but seems to be fine for newer models:

Bulbs, wipers for your LAND ROVER DEFENDER ESTATE 2006-2007 (56) (http://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/land-rover--defender-estate-2006-2007-56)

Also here - lots of info - and some "icy" comments:

Driving Light Upgrade (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?348553-Driving-Light-Upgrade)

And then the whole new debate/issue whether halogen gives better better "colour rendering" than HID or LED...

In ZA - on one forum - a member installed H4 LED replacement bulbs/-globes - only to later revert back to his OEM Halogens.

There also seems to be a quality difference amongst LED globes/-bulbs - with very much a "you get what you pay for" ...

Please post here if you do go this route - and what your findings are.

[DiscoMick]

Is it true that LEDs are not special for distance, but shine for closer vision?

[bee utey]

Is it true that LEDs are not special for distance, but shine for closer vision?

The problem with current generation replacement LED globes is that the light emitting chips have a much larger area than a glowing filament. Also they tend to be on a different alignment to a filament. That means that any ordinary lamp housing not specifically designed for LEDs will simply not work as originally designed. A broad light source can't be focused into a tight beam by a standard reflector.

There seem to be just a few excellent design LED lamp fittings on the market but they are many times the price of the Chinese cheapies flooding the market.

[timax]

Im also running the Philips Extreme Plus bulbs with standard loom and do find and improvement over whatever was in there. Expensive but worth it.
Im also running the same in another car that uses Cibie Oscar headlights. The Cibie have a better spread to me than the Wipacs on my Defender.
Regarding Colour temp and rendering. I work in the Photography and Film industry . Halogen is way better than LED for colour depth and the colour temp being warmer is better for fatigue than the HID or blue bulbs. Blue light while looking brighter has too much glare and dosnt penetrate moisture in the air like the warmer light. For this reason im running the Philips with about 5000 deg kelvin Col Temp and a set of Super Oscar Halogen Driving lights. Not Spots. Very comfortable to drive behind. Most of my use in in the Snowy Mountains at no more than 110 kph. So while i love LEDs for torches and floods a "quality" halogen is the ultimate for headlights.

[CraigE]

The Phillips Extreme Vision 120% are the best I have had and will be going back to them next. From what I have seen you can get Plus 100, 120 and 130. They are expensive in Australia as are most high end bulbs. Lots cheaper on the internet. Found the 130s for $42 including delivery to Australia.
Bought Narva 120s when one of the Phillips failed after more than 6 years. Wont be doing that again. Fitted the Narva 120s when the Narva 90s came up on sale and bought them for another car but did not end up using. Well Narva 120s lasted around 6-8 months then a Low Beam blew. So changed to 90s that I had in the shed, Low Beam blew in first set in just over 3 months as I had 2 packets replaced with another from second pack. Lasted 2 months low beam blew. And again today replaced another just after 2 months. They got a non to complimentary email today. Worst globes I have ever used, light is OK but durability is garbage.
Still have 1 good Phillips 120 and now over 8 years old, tested while fitting replacement Narva today.
And the Narvas are not cheap from memory the Narva 120 retail at around $90 (think I got on special for around $70), the 90 plus retail around $60-70 (I think I got 2 sets on special for a 2 for 1 offer).
Yet the Narva Spot light globes have been in for over 10 years. Go figure.
Craig

[AK83]

I just fitted a pair of Philips Ultinon LED H4 globe inserts into my D1.
Fitting was relatively easy too. Dunno how much room behind the defender light there is, but plenty of space for the heatsink behind the D1(and D2) headlight with a bit of room to spare(about 1" between bulkhead and rear of heatsink)

My preference for light colour has always been white, rather than warm. Not a big fan of the blue white light type, but I still prefer blue-white to warm white.

The Ultinons are white-white, no blue cast at all from what I can see so far in the daylight.

My LED lightbar is more blue than the Ultinons but not badly so. I'm happy enough with the LED light bar so far in all the conditions I've used it.
I'll post back with some feedback with the Ultinons once I get some for those interested.

ps. Philips Ultinons are madly expensive compared to some of the high end H4 globe inserts where even the $90 Narvas sound cheap.
I got mine off ebay for $225, after a few months of watching many at the $260+ price range.

[VladTepes]

The best initial upgrade you can do (for your eyes and the good of your Defender electrical system) is a relay to the switch and decent wiring direct to lamps to get the maximum current available there.

If replacing bulbs, keep in mind that the way the eye works is affected by colour temperature. The really bright blue-ish lights actually tire the eyes more quickly. The more neutral / slightly yellowish light (more akin to sunlight) doesn't stress the eyes so much...

If replacing bulbs I'd steer away from anything over 6000 degrees K. The 5,000K-6,000K range is ideal IMHO.

[steveG]

The Phillips Extreme Vision 120% are the best I have had and will be going back to them next. From what I have seen you can get Plus 100, 120 and 130. They are expensive in Australia as are most high end bulbs. Lots cheaper on the internet. Found the 130s for $42 including delivery to Australia.
Bought Narva 120s when one of the Phillips failed after more than 6 years. Wont be doing that again. Fitted the Narva 120s when the Narva 90s came up on sale and bought them for another car but did not end up using. Well Narva 120s lasted around 6-8 months then a Low Beam blew. So changed to 90s that I had in the shed, Low Beam blew in first set in just over 3 months as I had 2 packets replaced with another from second pack. Lasted 2 months low beam blew. And again today replaced another just after 2 months. They got a non to complimentary email today. Worst globes I have ever used, light is OK but durability is garbage.
Still have 1 good Phillips 120 and now over 8 years old, tested while fitting replacement Narva today.
And the Narvas are not cheap from memory the Narva 120 retail at around $90 (think I got on special for around $70), the 90 plus retail around $60-70 (I think I got 2 sets on special for a 2 for 1 offer).
Yet the Narva Spot light globes have been in for over 10 years. Go figure.
Craig

Thanks for that info Craig. I've also had issues with durability from the better halogens, but happy with their performance.
Unfortunately I don't recall definitely what the brand was, but think it was likely Narva.
Rather than throwing away $60 a time on halogens that don't last I'm currently running some sealed LED's on the County. Not happy with the light from them though so might have to give the Phillips halogens a try next - perhaps with some DRL's so that I'm not running the low beams for visibility during the day.

Steve

[DiscoMick]

I just put Phillips +130 yellow bulbs in the Defender at the weekend and the difference is remarkable. Part of that is because the original bulbs had faded away, of course, but even so its a huge improvement. For $89 to get such a big improvement I'd have to question the need to spend much more than that for LEDs.
They are said to use the same power as the originals, so I didn't bother fitting a relay. Would it really make so much difference?
Incidentally, I can report that 14 screws have to be undone to replace each bulb - 14!

[AK83]

The best initial upgrade you can do (for your eyes and the good of your Defender electrical system) is a relay to the switch and decent wiring direct to lamps to get the maximum current available there.

This was what I was going to do before I decided to spend the money on the LEDs instead. I wasn't going to purchase generic Chinese LED H4 inserts which just spread the light in any and every direction.
The Philips are properly designed H4 LEDs with the correct deflection for low beam and all.
The quoted power draw of the Philips Ultinon are 25W, so that's only 2A through the tired old wiring. At 55 or 60W for halogens, the wiring obviously needs to carry the 5A or so, and the meager little wires used to get those amps to the actual bulbs is the issue obviously can't do that effectively(after 20 years of use).
I thought that by the time I've spent a few $s on relays, plugs wires and the time to make it all up, I'd just spend that money(let say $50ish) and put it towards higher quality LED globes.
I'm sure that if the tired old wires can carry any current then the 2A draw of the LEDs should be fine, whereas the 5A required for the halogens may be near the limits of what the wires can achieve.


.. If replacing bulbs, keep in mind that the way the eye works is affected by colour temperature. The really bright blue-ish lights actually tire the eyes more quickly. The more neutral / slightly yellowish light (more akin to sunlight) doesn't stress the eyes so much ...

Yes and no! Maybe yes for some, many or most people, but definitely not myself!
Warm coloured light tire me out(in terms of eye fatigue). I strain my eyes massively trying to read anything under the red night lights in the trucks. This is why my preference is for (supposedly)harder white light.
I do agree tho that really blue light does strain eyesight and taken to the extreme, violet(or visible violet) is positively painful .. so as light tends more toward the blue spectrum, it does make it harder on the eyes.


... If replacing bulbs I'd steer away from anything over 6000 degrees K. The 5,000K-6,000K range is ideal IMHO...
Many times you see these quoted Kelvin values and you should treat them with suspicion(even the well known brands!)
I use Philips 18W LED globes in my study and living room. They're supposedly 6500K, but no matter how hard I try I can't measure them at any more than in the low 5000's.
But I still like them as they are, and I reckon if they were truly 6500K I'd probably hate them! They have the most neutral colour balance(in the red-green spectrum) I've yet found for consumer level.
I used to run a 30W photography level high CRI CFL in my study a few years back, but I couldn't get to the lighting store to get any more after the last one died.
They were reasonably priced too .. but I then found those Philips LEDs at Bunnings .. simple and easy and last a near lifetime.

[timax]

Yes and no! Maybe yes for some, many or most people, but definitely not myself!
Warm coloured light tire me out(in terms of eye fatigue). I strain my eyes massively trying to read anything under the red night lights in the trucks. This is why my preference is for (supposedly)harder white light.


The problem here is you have removed 6 colours of the spectrum and your trying to read with just one. Red light in this instance is only for convenience so you dont ruin your night vision buy turning on a bright light.

You mentioned CRI further down.
CRI is where you will find all your info. A good halogen has a CRI or Colour Rendering Index of around 100. So all the colours are rendered very evenly. Taking a photo under this light will be show true colours at both ends of the spectrum. By having a full spectrum of light you will experience less eye strain. And blue especially is bad for your eyes. Google blue light eye strain and you can read all the issues people who work infront of computer screens deal with. So actually wear yellow lens sunglasses to deal with it.Automotive LEDs last i checked are more like 70 as are HID. Photo quality ones are higher but still not 100. LED Film lighting is super expensive but naturally there are cheap copies on ebay out of China. These wont have anywhere near the CRI of the real thing. Same with Automotive. CRI along with general build quality is why LED lights like Lazer out of the UK are so expensive. These are great if you dont have much room or dont want the wind resistance of large lights like on rally cars but you will still get better light out of a halogen in a good reflector. This is just a technical fact not perceived by someone who really wants to believe otherwise.

[AK83]

The problem here is you have removed 6 colours of the spectrum and your trying to read with just one. Red light in this instance is only for convenience so you dont ruin your night vision buy turning on a bright light.

.....

Yep! that's the red light!

In my D1, I've added a small RGB LED under the dash to emulate those red night lights in the trucks.
I've added a switch to allow me to use the red or green light(and off when I don't want it).

With the red light as you say I remove 6 other colours of the spectrum and it's hard to see detail(ie. read)
Yet still removing 6 colours of the spectrum, but this time only allowing the green, I can easily read detail in those same items(usually maps .. in fact almost always maps).

Our eyes are more sensitive to green, and the green appears more brightly .. so not as effective as a night light in near darkness(ie. on the road at night) .. but for me it works.
When I only want to keep the red light on for seeing stuff on the centre console, I use the red. When I want to view a map tho, I'll switch to green.

Anyhow, it's dark out now, I've just spent the better part of about 4 hours sifting through a few of my photos and totally forgot to check out my new LED lights.
They look much better from just switching them on in the driveway .. so I'm off for a bit of a drive to check them out.

[timax]

.
Yep! that's the red light!

In my D1, I've added a small RGB LED under the dash to emulate those red night lights in the trucks.
I've added a switch to allow me to use the red or green light(and off when I don't want it).

With the red light as you say I remove 6 other colours of the spectrum and it's hard to see detail(ie. read)
Yet still removing 6 colours of the spectrum, but this time only allowing the green, I can easily read detail in those same items(usually maps .. in fact almost always maps).


Well yes the green is more visible but it WILL ruin your night vision which really is the ONLY reason why you would use the red. And also not to attract insects i suppose.
If you want to get technical you could say its actually a yellow /green of about 570nm that is the most visible to your eye. Remember that acid yellow of old Alfa Spiders and BMW 2002s of the 1970's? Thats why they were that colour. Id hate to drive behind headlights of that colour
though

[AK83]

.
.... Remember that acid yellow of old Alfa Spiders and BMW 2002s of the 1970's? Thats why they were that colour....

Was it similar to the baby poo colour of those 1970's Volvo 142s? :D

Just got back from a short drive out to the bush.
On way to this dark place I noted:

1/. Sitting at a T junction(still in the city), a new model corolla(with halogens) next to me with cars coming across our paths, my white LED were at least one order of magnitude brighter, and white(eg. cars!) looked white when they passed in front of me, but then looked yellow when they passed the corollas light beam. Noticed silver coloured cars looked silver in my light beams but a dirtier brown-ish colour in front of halogen corolla. All other colours were different but insignificant.

2/. on the freeway up to the dark bush. All road signs looked pretty much normal, but a lot brighter. Speed signs with round red circle, the round red circle looked just that .. red! Blue signs looked a lot brighter, ie. much more reflective. Makes sense considering the LEDs are tailored more towards the blue spectrum. Not annoying, but close too. Didn't get the chance to run the highbeams on the freeway, but I dare say they'll glare back a lot more with high beams on. They did with the old IPF spotties the D1 came with and do with the LED lightbar I now have. if they glare back too much, turn lights down to main beam .. easy! :p
Brown national park sign was a big change tho from the halogens. I guess the red component in the brown(on that sign) wasn't reflecting back as much considering the more blue oriented light output. didn't make it hard to read, in fact if anything it made it easier to read as the brown was a lot darker and the white lettering made for a higher contrast.
A bit down the road tho was another brown sign for a winery or something like that. it reflected back more brown than the national park sign. Coming up to two large red reduce speed signs, and they looked no different to having seen them with halogens. big red, no glare .. looked very good from a long way off.

3/. something that I should have been prepared for tho was coming into the downhill sharp curve. Because the headlights are much brighter and whiter now, it makes it harder to see into darker parts of the 'landscape' .. ie. past that bend and up higher where the light don't shine. Of course could have turned the high beams and LED light bar on, but that wasn't' the test.

4/. The LED lightbar seems so much less effective at what its supposed to do .. add a lot more light. With the halogens, the LED bar was monumental in it's difference in light power. but now with the whiter and brighter LED H4s it's much harder on the open road to distinguish the LED light bar coming on.
LED light bar is a combo of 4 10 degree beams and 8 wider angle beams. On a closed in path(eg. trees close to the road like a tunnel, you can clearly see the light bars effectiveness tho.

I understand the theory of light and the consequences of low CRI lights. But I'm not driving around looking at things for scientific reasons. I want lights that give me more seeing power. White lights, low CRI or high CRI always give me clearer vision. I don't care if the brown sign is a different colour brown to what I see with the LEDs I just want to see it clearly(and brightly). If I wanted to capture it's true brown hue, I'd stop and take a photo with some high quality high CRI supplemental lighting fixtures.
Brown trees looked brown, red weeds looked red and green bushes still looked green. The idea that we need high CRI headlights is hilarious when it makes no difference in the real world(for use as headlights on cars!). If the purpose was to scientifically categorize every colour we see out on the road, then I'll concede that high CRI will be important. But for general use, it's a non issue for me.
Other's have their views and they're welcome to those views.

The only concern I think may become a problem will be in thick fog on a dark night.
I reckon that the brightness and colour of these LEDs will definitely glare back a bit too much even on low beam.
The cutoff beam of these Philips is great tho. It's not the full bore just push out as much light power type design that I've seen in cheap Chinese LED H4 replacement globes.
The beam cutoff is well defined, a lot deeper than the halogens and no one flashed me in the hour that I drove. I can see that the beam is heavily LHS oriented.
Hopefully the well designed beam spread will minimise the potential glare in thick fog. Until I see those conditions tho, I won't know.

Would I do it all again if I had too? For sure .. that takes into account the excessive $200 bucks and all(ie. fitting annoyances). Of course this depends on longevity too.
The side benefit of LEDs is their low current/power draw. I've never seen 14v on my voltmeter at night. ie. with headlights on. I used to see more like 13.5, generally less .. like 13.3v or so.
Obviously pulling only half the power has that kind of effect.

One question with respect to halogen H4s tho, as I can't remember. When you switch to high beam, does the main beam filament stay on or switch off .. ie. both low and high beam filaments stay on when set to high beam?
I thought that they did .. but I could be wrong.
With these Philips Ultinons, it's one or the other. Using main beam lights up only the covered led chip, and then switching to high beam switches to the uncovered(or exposed) chip.

Hope this info helps someone.