Auto cooler upgrade

[blitz]

As I'm upgrading my auto box now it the time to do the cooler as well. What have you all done in this regard?

[Slunnie]

I run an additional Davis Performance Landys ATF cooler.

They really need to have high pressure fittings etc to be reliable. These ones are a little expensive but are bang on.

Aux Transmission Oil Cooler | MODIFICATION | Davis Performance (https://davisperformance.com.au/aux-transmission-oil-cooler.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/358.jpg

[rick130]

I run an additional Davis Performance Landys ATF cooler.

They really need to have high pressure fittings etc to be reliable. These ones are a little expensive but are bang on.

Aux Transmission Oil Cooler | MODIFICATION | Davis Performance (https://davisperformance.com.au/aux-transmission-oil-cooler.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/358.jpg

Curious what the dimensions are on that supplementary cooler Simon ?

cheers.

[bee utey]

The P38 4.6 HSE runs a nice big cooler that's about twice the height of the V8 one. I fitted one to a 300TDi converted RRC and ignored the 3.9 V8 one the vehicle originally came with. I made some adaptor pipes to connect the P38 cooler to the old pipes so all connections are OEM o-ring style.

[Slunnie]

Curious what the dimensions are on that supplementary cooler Simon ?

cheers.

I'll give it a measure when I can. I think I ended up with one of his first ones, and the tanks look like they've been changed by other than that they still look the same.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/326.jpg

[rick130]

I'll give it a measure when I can. I think I ended up with one of his first ones, and the tanks look like they've been changed by other than that they still look the same.



Cheers, only when you get a chance/think of it.

It looks like an engine oil cooler (40-50mm deep?)
ATF dimple plate/fin coolers are usually only around 20mm thick.


I was thinking along bee utey's line of getting a big enough cooler and remove the existing one so that a manual trans I/C would fit.
I'm saying that without even knowing what sits where yet.

[Slunnie]

Cheers, only when you get a chance/think of it.

It looks like an engine oil cooler (40-50mm deep?)
ATF dimple plate/fin coolers are usually only around 20mm thick.


I was thinking along bee utey's line of getting a big enough cooler and remove the existing one so that a manual trans I/C would fit.
I'm saying that without even knowing what sits where yet.

Here we go. 11" across, 8" high and 1.5" thick. The hose fittings are the same as the one pictured.

It probably is an oil cooler, I guess ATF is oil anyway. I did have an ATF cooler in it, but they just cant handle the pressure during lockup that the ZF produces. Comparing something like 15-20psi to a bit over 100 if my memory serves me correctly and assuming I'm not just making stuff up. Regular ATF coolers are just not reliable enough, they need to be higher pressure coolers and proper pressure multibarb or pirtek type fittings for reliability. I spent thousands and thousands learning this.

I dont know if it will be enough as a replacement ATF cooler. It is in a much better location than the standard one for cooling, but its also smaller and putting big power through the ZF heats it right up. Im chipped and intercooled and glad I have both coolers, especially in the hills when power is going down and the auto is predominantly unlocked. I have run a much larger ATF cooler as pictured but that one is history now. Something to also think about, is that once that hot ATF light comes on, the transmission is stuffed already, it will be fine at the time and once it cools off, but irrespective of what you do, such as changing the ATF etc, the internal components will continue to break down and the auto will fail, not might fail, it will fail.

For whats where, the radiators/cooler pack is 3 layers deep.
1st layer is the AC radiator
2nd layer is the Intercooler up top and ATF cooler at the bottom (where it also collects and holds mud that you cant clean out)
3rd layer is the engine coolant.

This is the standard ATF cooler:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/309.jpg

this is the first additional ATF cooler that I used - don't go there in terms of using a regular ATF cooler, but the size does fit behind the grill. Its binned, so I cant give you the size.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/310.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/311.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/312.jpg

[rick130]

Thanks mate.

Yes, those serpentine coil/finned coolers are next to useless.

I learnt that 20 years ago with my old F100. I used to log the temps on the C6 and the dimple plate/fin cooler I used was pretty good.
I had a prang and the smash repairs used a big tube and fin cooler just like the one you've pictured and my auto temps went through the roof.
Plate and fin, size for size, are the most efficient heat exchangers we can use.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Hmm, I thought we figured out there was only low pressure in the cooler lines?
inside the box is quite high, yes, but the lines are only low,, hence the stupid connectors that fall off. Even LR wouldnt use unflared tube ends on 100 psi,,,
Having said all that [bigwhistle] Slunnie has fixed it properly as usual..[thumbsupbig]

[Slunnie]

Thanks mate.

Yes, those serpentine coil/finned coolers are next to useless.

I learnt that 20 years ago with my old F100. I used to log the temps on the C6 and the dimple plate/fin cooler I used was pretty good.
I had a prang and the smash repairs used a big tube and fin cooler just like the one you've pictured and my auto temps went through the roof.
Plate and fin, size for size, are the most efficient heat exchangers we can use.

Very true, they don't compare. They just don't generate the surface area in the fluid to work well. Interestingly, the intercooler has fins in the passages also.


Hmm, I thought we figured out there was only low pressure in the cooler lines?
inside the box is quite high, yes, but the lines are only low,, hence the stupid connectors that fall off. Even LR wouldnt use unflared tube ends on 100 psi,,,
Having said all that [bigwhistle] Slunnie has fixed it properly as usual..[thumbsupbig]

Without pressure fittings the lines were blowing all of the time, these were the numbers that the transmission shop came back to me with. Apparently the ZF work differently to every other transmission in that they shunt full pressure through the ATF line for some reason. I note that LR have always used pressure fittings on their ATF lines, although the D2/P38 ones are a bit questionable, but a far cry from hose clamps. The transmission shop even blew one backing it out of their workshop. In the end the ATF cooler system was completely removed and a short time later replaced with the DPL setup that has the pressure fittings that I still use.

[blitz]

Would an A/C condenser have sufficient flow?

[rick130]

Would an A/C condenser have sufficient flow?

As an oil cooler ?

They are only narrow, I'd reckon there'd be too much pressure drop and it'd possibly rupture just from 'hydraulicing' ?

Real oil coolers aren't that dear.

I went searching yesterday, these are 405mm wide. Setrab Oil Coolers - 9 Series "Extra Wide" (http://www.mscn.com.au/oil-systems/Oil-Coolers/setrab-oil-coolers-9-series-extra-wide%22)

OK, we'd need to fab mounts and obtain hose and fittings, maybe use some sexy Speedflow ones ? :D

[Pedro_The_Swift]

PWR make some,,
PWR Performance Products | Transmission Oil Coolers – External Plate Fin (https://www.pwr.com.au/portfolio/external-plate-fin)

[rick130]

PWR make some,,
PWR Performance Products | Transmission Oil Coolers – External Plate Fin (https://www.pwr.com.au/portfolio/external-plate-fin)
Yes, but when I looked through the catalogue they all seemed to be 280mm or so wide, just various heights.
I was thinking a wider one might be better so I could have a lower stack height.

The BD one actually looks like a PWR in that photo.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Like Slunnie, mine is attached as far forward as possible and is in series with the original, leaves lots of air room behind, I also bought the half inch tube model so no pressure difference,, at least that was the idea--

[Slunnie]

Yes, but when I looked through the catalogue they all seemed to be 280mm or so wide, just various heights.
I was thinking a wider one might be better so I could have a lower stack height.

The BD one actually looks like a PWR in that photo.

Bingo! Here it is. Its an engine oil cooler

PWR Performance Products | 37mm External Plate & Fin Close Mesh (https://www.pwr.com.au/portfolio/external-plate-fins-close-mesh)

[DiscoDiscoMan]

Thanks all I have used this as reference and now have a 15 row ProFlow oil cooler, AN-8 piping and fittings, modified D2 auto cooler and pipes (from a private wrecking) ready to swap out.....https://www.aulro.com/mobile-gallery/37a700567ee2e811e435e5453675be6c.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/mobile-gallery/230f74c0cc76549d4a78b4e8e2dba195.jpg