300tdi camshaft and crankshaft front ( inner and outer) oil seal questions

[Andy130]

hi guys,

Doing the timing belt this weekend and its apparent that the crankshaft oil seal is leaking. I've currently got the engine at TDC, the fuel pump locking tool in place and the flywheel pin in also. Ive got a replacement crankshaft oil seal here - and a few questions before I go much further...

1. should I replace the camshaft oil seal at the same time as the crankshaft oil seal ? - if yes - what is the best way to undo the centrebolt of the camshaft pulley? ( as the belt is off, it will turn as I try to unbolt it and move off its TDC mark - does that even matter? )

2. I've removed the crankshaft pulley and see the seal behind it - looks like a simple pull out, press in - with the lips facing inward toward the engine - should I oil or grease them first - any tips here?

3. Whats the best way to replace the camshaft pulley? do I just tap it in with a suitable drift?

4. the outer seal ( the one on the timing belt cover plate - seems very 'loose' the centre metal band has a lot of play - is this normal, or should I replace that too?

thanks guys

[jboot51]

Use a rattle gun to undo the centre bolt of the cam pulley. Hold the pulley with one hand. It has a dowel so will only go back on one way. You can do a final tension once the belt is back on.
Lube the seals before sending them home as the rubber can get torn on installation.
There is also the oring on the inside of the crack pulley.
The outer seal for the crank is really a dust seal, so replace it if you have one. There are 2 types but are not interchangeable.
The steel sleeved ones are not as common.

[manic]

Done timing belt this weekend.

Crank seal and o ring
Front cover crank seal

Had the cam seal but forgot to slacken the nut on the pulley whilst belt was on, so left it (not leaking).

I prised the crank seal out with a big screwdriver and hammered the new one in with a hub nut socket and mallet. Cleaned up the surfaces leaving thin film of oil, close to dry. Went in no drama. Genuine seals.

Front cover seal is even easier, should replace on every belt change imo.

[rick130]

Andy, I wouldn't bother with the cam seal (unless it's leaking)

The cam is only spinning at half crank speed anyway, and FWIW I did my last Tdi timing belt at 310,000km and had never touched the cam seal. ;)

[Andy130]

There is also the oring on the inside of the crack pulley.


Thanks jboot51,I wasn't aware of that o-ring.

[Andy130]

Andy, I wouldn't bother with the cam seal (unless it's leaking)

The cam is only spinning at half crank speed anyway, and FWIW I did my last Tdi timing belt at 310,000km and had never touched the cam seal. ;)


Thanks Rick,this engine has done 345k and the last timing change was done in 2012, km's unknown at that point - but i'm fairly sure cam seal is not leaking now - the oil in the case does look to have originated from the crank seal.

[bee utey]

Andy, I wouldn't bother with the cam seal (unless it's leaking)

The cam is only spinning at half crank speed anyway, and FWIW I did my last Tdi timing belt at 310,000km and had never touched the cam seal. ;)

I did that once, and within 5K the dry cam seal was spewing oil all over the new belt.

If you haven't remembered to loosen the cam bolt, just fit up the belt temporarily, crack the cam bolt and replace the seal, they are cheaper than belts.

[rick130]

When changing the O ring, which crank pulley do you have ?

The OE one has spot welded 'ears', the best one is the Bearmach style, which is one piece.
The OE ones have a habit of dropping the ears, which isn't good....

Also, what tension are you using on the tensioner ?

There is a revised spec issued in a TSB, the one listed in the manual is a little too high.

[rick130]

I did that once, and within 5K the dry cam seal was spewing oil all over the new belt.

If you haven't remembered to loosen the cam bolt, just fit up the belt temporarily, crack the cam bolt and replace the seal, they are cheaper than belts.

Fair enough, a bit like when I changed a clutch at 220,000, I replaced the input and output shaft seals on the R380 too as I reckoned they'd probably let go within 10,000km.

[Andy130]

When changing the O ring, which crank pulley do you have ?

The OE one has spot welded 'ears', the best one is the Bearmach style, which is one piece.
The OE ones have a habit of dropping the ears, which isn't good....

Also, what tension are you using on the tensioner ?

There is a revised spec issued in a TSB, the one listed in the manual is a little too high.

I've got the original OE one with ' ears'

I think the tension I was going to use was 11nm ? sound right to you ?

[jboot51]

If you have the ears that are spot welded on it would be best to bin it.
The newer style pulley is one piece.

13Nm is what I go for using a dial torque wrench.

As you put the belt on, rotate the injector pump pulley clockwise on the slots and let the belt rotate it anticlockwise to its resting position.

[jboot51]

More info
Once the belt it tensioned, you will find that the injector pump timing pin won't come out easily.
I put a 22m socket on the pump drive nut and gently turn clockwise untill the timing pin moves freely. While holding this position I then tension the 3x 10mm pulley bolts.

Also I still rotate the engine by hand 2 revolutions and redo the belt tension sequence. This will allow the belt to walk on the pulleys to its natural position.

There is a small round fibre washer on the timing cover that needs to be there, easily missed if your not aware of it.

[Andy130]

sorry guys I think ive got the newer one - decided to get off the computer and go look at it in the garage [biggrin]

I can't see any spot weld anywhere - looks like the one piece unit - like this one below:

120692

[jboot51]

That one looks fine.

The bad ones have obvious spot welds on the front face of the lip.

here you can make out the spot welds. Probably just an old photo.
Land Rover 300 TDi Crankshaft Pulley LHH100660 (https://www.johnrichardssurplus.co.uk/crankshaft-pulley-lhh100660.html)

[rick130]

Re belt tension, sorry, can't find my RAVE with the TSB in it but it's lower than what is stated in the manual.
Have the cover in the laptop bag, god only knows where the disc is after three moves since I last used it....[bighmmm]

It's important to do the couple of revs mentioned above too to seat the belt.

[justinc]

The spotwelded crsnk gears are unobtainable now snywsy. As nd i find the best method of fotting the new seal is the turn the old crank pulley around and refit it to the crank, fit the new one on too and use it to push the old pulley against the seal by doing up the crank bolt. This ensures the seal goes in dead square.

Jc