HF Radio

[Redback]

OK all you HF radio gurus, school me on what is best.

Basically does a radio need to be specific to an antenna and visa versa??

I'm looking at a Barrett 250 and a VKS737 Multi tap antenna CHANNELS 1, 2, 4 and 7, I do know that ideally an Autotune antenna is best, but finding one, let alone one that won't break the bank is prooving difficult, or am I better off stretching the budget and buying them as a job lot.

Thanks

[Homestar]

There's nothing wrong with a multi tap antenna - less to go wrong, but you just have to remember to change the tap if you change frequencies, but I found mostly I was on the one channel so no issues really. I had no dramas with mine when I was using it (Ye Olde Barrett 550) and was subscribed to VKS 737. It's still on the 101 and the radio lives in the shed now, but I know it works should I need to dust it off for a trip.

When setting up the antenna, earths are super important and way more so than with a UHF. Even though I thought I had good earths, after a frustrating time to start with, I re made all the earths so they were the best they could be and it made a dramatic improvement.

Also make sure the power supply cable is large enough - an HF uses a metric **** tonne of power when transmitting. ;)

[Redback]

There's nothing wrong with a multi tap antenna - less to go wrong, but you just have to remember to change the tap if you change frequencies, but I found mostly I was on the one channel so no issues really. I had no dramas with mine when I was using it (Ye Olde Barrett 550) and was subscribed to VKS 737. It's still on the 101 and the radio lives in the shed now, but I know it works should I need to dust it off for a trip.

When setting up the antenna, earths are super important and way more so than with a UHF. Even though I thought I had good earths, after a frustrating time to start with, I re made all the earths so they were the best they could be and it made a dramatic improvement.

Also make sure the power supply cable is large enough - an HF uses a metric **** tonne of power when transmitting. ;)

Thanks Gavin, so the multi-tap is not specific to a radio just channels or who you're licenced too(ie) VKS?

[digger]

It's set to channels.. vka737 is a receiving station / organisation


I have a auto tune aerial but struggling to work out where to fit in the puma (if I bother).

Interested in piccies or suggestions of where you've put aerial and how and where you've set up induce (I have codan unit with remote head)

[Graeme]

Multi-tap antennas can have just the taps for the various VKS737 channels (frequencies) but can also have extra taps suitable for amateur radio bands. Buying one with the extra taps could make it more saleable later.

[DeanoH]

Thanks Gavin, so the multi-tap is not specific to a radio just channels or who you're licenced too(ie) VKS?


Yes.

The multi tapped antenna is frequency(s) specific not manufacturer specific.

Another alternative is to use an antenna tuner to match a non tapped antenna to the transmitter. This is commonly built in to marine type HF sets or an external antenna tuner can be used. A bit more 'fiddly' to set up correctly, more of a semi radio amateur solution than a simple plug and play setup. note. for receive only antenna tap is relatively unimportant.


As others have pointed out earthing is very important, particularly on the main 'box' and antenna base. Transmit power is typically in the order of 100 watts so good thick power (and earthing) cable is essential, don't use a crappy little blade fuse use a 'maxi' blade or big cartridge fuse of suitable rating.

Deano :)

Deano :)

[Michael2]

I had a little issue when trying to set up my Barrett. In the settings, the radio thought it was connected to a base station aerial, not an auto tune. Clarity improved as soon as the tech at Barrett (over the phone) thought to check that setting, and talked me through the process. I found their over the phone support to be very good.

[Expedition 130]

If you use the multitap antenna you need to ensure the frequencies of the various taps are identical to the VKS frequencies if you are going to subscribe to them for your mobile licence, from memory there are a number of different multitap antennas available corresponding to the various organisations using HF past and present. It is particularly important to be on the correct frequency when transmitting maybe not so when receiving.

These are the VKS Frequencies

120864https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/attach/pdf.gif

[Homestar]

Thanks Gavin, so the multi-tap is not specific to a radio just channels or who you're licenced too(ie) VKS?

Bit late back to the party - been out. :)

As already mentioned - yes, not radio specific. If your multi tap is like mine it will have VKS-1, VKS-4 etc marked on the taps. Subscribe to those guys and you're sortedMand can start transmitting on those frequencies. You don't need to be subscribed to listen in and this will give you an idea of how well things are working and how it all works. Thier website has a list of radio scheds they run and on what channels and from where. Depending on atmospheric conditions, you could pick up Alice Springs from where you are, but don't expect it to be like talking to your mate in the next vehicle with a UHF. You'll need to 'tune' your ears a bit too when the signal is weak.

Set it up, plug it in and see what you can hear. Once you're ready to go, subscribe so you can conduct radio checks and see how you are transmitting.

[Redback]

Thanks everyone, just the info I wanted, the antenna I'm looking at is a multi tap and it has channels 1, 2, 4, and 7 and from what I'm reading is good and really all I'll need.

I've been thinking of getting HF for quite a while and this Kimberley trip has sort of sparked my interest again, I might get the antenna at this stage and if funds allow, I'll get a radio a bit later before the trip, I have a good spot for the antenna I think, in the spot where the auto tune would go, I'll make a bracket for it to fit.

Thanks again fellas, much appreciated.

[86mud]

I still prefer the old Codan HF 9323 Radio with Codan 9350 Autotune antenna

I can not vouch for the multi tap antennas, but the Autotune is great. But agree with Gav that they can chew a lot of power when transmitting.

My antenna is attached to the rear of my 130 tub via a bracket that I made. Initially I had a quick release folding mount, but I could not stop it rattling so I removed it and the antenna is firmly attached to the bracket.

[digger]

I still prefer the old Codan HF 9323 Radio with Codan 9350 Autotune antenna

I can not vouch for the multi tap antennas, but the Autotune is great. But agree with Gav that they can chew a lot of power when transmitting.

My antenna is attached to the rear of my 130 tub via a bracket that I made. Initially I had a quick release folding mount, but I could not stop it rattling so I removed it and the antenna is firmly attached to the bracket.

Thanks, I have a 110 and the door swings into that spot, getting ladder made for the other side...

Still looking for where I will put it..both the aerial and unit itself...
. thanks

[Redback]

Bit late back to the party - been out. :)

As already mentioned - yes, not radio specific. If your multi tap is like mine it will have VKS-1, VKS-4 etc marked on the taps. Subscribe to those guys and you're sortedMand can start transmitting on those frequencies. You don't need to be subscribed to listen in and this will give you an idea of how well things are working and how it all works. Thier website has a list of radio scheds they run and on what channels and from where. Depending on atmospheric conditions, you could pick up Alice Springs from where you are, but don't expect it to be like talking to your mate in the next vehicle with a UHF. You'll need to 'tune' your ears a bit too when the signal is weak.

Set it up, plug it in and see what you can hear. Once you're ready to go, subscribe so you can conduct radio checks and see how you are transmitting.


If you use the multitap antenna you need to ensure the frequencies of the various taps are identical to the VKS frequencies if you are going to subscribe to them for your mobile licence, from memory there are a number of different multitap antennas available corresponding to the various organisations using HF past and present. It is particularly important to be on the correct frequency when transmitting maybe not so when receiving.

These are the VKS Frequencies

120864https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/attach/pdf.gif


I had a little issue when trying to set up my Barrett. In the settings, the radio thought it was connected to a base station aerial, not an auto tune. Clarity improved as soon as the tech at Barrett (over the phone) thought to check that setting, and talked me through the process. I found their over the phone support to be very good.


Yes.

The multi tapped antenna is frequency(s) specific not manufacturer specific.

Another alternative is to use an antenna tuner to match a non tapped antenna to the transmitter. This is commonly built in to marine type HF sets or an external antenna tuner can be used. A bit more 'fiddly' to set up correctly, more of a semi radio amateur solution than a simple plug and play setup. note. for receive only antenna tap is relatively unimportant.


As others have pointed out earthing is very important, particularly on the main 'box' and antenna base. Transmit power is typically in the order of 100 watts so good thick power (and earthing) cable is essential, don't use a crappy little blade fuse use a 'maxi' blade or big cartridge fuse of suitable rating.

Deano :)

Deano :)

One more question, the antenna I'm looking at is a terlin and is 900mm tall, is this high enough??

[87County]

One more question, the antenna I'm looking at is a terlin and is 900mm tall, is this high enough??

Terlin used to make 2 piece screw together antennae - check that you're not just looking at one half of one of these.

Usually stick antennae are around 6 feet - check also that all the freqs that you want are tapped and that there is a wander lead still attached.

Length of the aerial doesn't affect performance so much so long as all of it is there, new aerials are readily available.

[Graeme]

According to the Terlin web-site, that particular antenna is not a standard item so presumably a special order of a batch of them, which Terlin will produce in the 900mm length.

[DeanoH]

The physical length of the fibreglass blank the antenna wire is wrapped around is not an issue. Terlin are a reputable manufacturer and you can be sure that their product is well designed. The 900mm length may be a design parameter chosen so that the antenna can be sent by Australia Post as I think this is their maximum parcel length.

I've been a member of VKS 737 for several years and log in regularly when traveling. I've only ever used channels 1 & 2. The primary and secondary channels. I use an auto tune antenna but keep the fibreglass top section inside the vehicle to avoid loss or damage after a 30 Km backtrack on the Anne Beadell Hwy to find the missing top section which had rattled off due to severe corrugations.

Deano :)

[Redback]

OK we have just bought a Barrett 250 radio and Terlin 4 tap Antenna, just applied for our licence through VKS and once we have that our radio will be released to us from the seller, so standby for some dopey questions[bigwhistle]

Thank you to everyone for your help, it was much appreciated.

[Homestar]

Ready and waiting for said dopey questions - I'll learn something along the way as well I'm sure from those with more experience than me. :)

Why are they waiting? Didn't think there was a law in owning an HF radio without a licence - just transmitting with it. You can - and are welcome - to listen in without a licence. I did for quite some time before paying up and actually playing with it properly.

Although it's poor form, in an emergency they will assist someone who is not licenced but is using one. They would probably get hit with a fine afterwards I would think.

[Grentarc]

Ready and waiting for said dopey questions - I'll learn something along the way as well I'm sure from those with more experience than me. :)

Why are they waiting? Didn't think there was a law in owning an HF radio without a licence - just transmitting with it. You can - and are welcome - to listen in without a licence. I did for quite some time before paying up and actually playing with it properly.

Although it's poor form, in an emergency they will assist someone who is not licenced but is using one. They would probably get hit with a fine afterwards I would think.
It is completely legal for an unlicensed or licenced person to transmit on any frequency in an emergency situation, and for unlicenced/licenced operators to respond, even if they are not licenced to transmit on that frequency.

[Redback]

I'm only going on what the guy said to me, I thought it was a bit odd too, guess he just making sure we are genuine buyers, anyway,

Q1; the radio comes with telcall, we have a Spot Device/locator with the ability text to mobile, so is activating telcall really needed for the time we are away?

[Graeme]

in an emergency they will assist someone who is not licenced but is using one. They would probably get hit with a fine afterwards I would think.They are required in an emergency to provide assistance if possible regardless of whether the caller is or is not licensed to use the frequency or the equipment.

[Redback]

Main unit is in, antenna is finally on it's way, coax and power is hooked up, just need to mount the head unit and it's all done, the antenna is a brand new 4 tap from Terlin, didn't realise it was new, let alone from Terlin, just thought it was from an Ebay seller, licence is now valid, Our call sign is VKS0478 or Mobile 0478:spudnikwaving:

[rick130]

Ready and waiting for said dopey questions - I'll learn something along the way as well I'm sure from those with more experience than me. :)

Why are they waiting? Didn't think there was a law in owning an HF radio without a licence - just transmitting with it. You can - and are welcome - to listen in without a licence. I did for quite some time before paying up and actually playing with it properly.

Although it's poor form, in an emergency they will assist someone who is not licenced but is using one. They would probably get hit with a fine afterwards I would think.


I've been told by someone heavily involved with VKS737 that if caught by the licensing mob with having only part of the radio in the car without a licence you will be fined.

BTW, well worth while having VKS737 membership, it's incredibly helpful during breakdowns.

[Homestar]

I've been told by someone heavily involved with VKS737 that if caught by the licensing mob with having only part of the radio in the car without a licence you will be fined.

BTW, well worth while having VKS737 membership, it's incredibly helpful during breakdowns.

Not sure how you could be caught - there's no one to police this any more - used to be many years ago. Unless you were in the licensing divisions car park maybe.

[rick130]

Not sure how you could be caught - there's no one to police this any more - used to be many years ago. Unless you were in the licensing divisions car park maybe.

Have no idea and that was my comment, but they were pretty adamant about it

[DeanoH]

Transmitter licensing provisions were tightened a couple of years ago when it became an offense to own transmitting equipment if unlicensed to use it. This was done in an effort to crack down on the illegals who make every ones life on air a misery. It also makes enforcement easier as previously an illegal operator had to be caught red handed with their 'finger on the transmit button' to gain a conviction.

Deano :)

[Homestar]

Yeah, but who's going to catch them? How many people have been found guilty if this since the laws were changed? I'm not saying it's a bad idea but laws are useless unless someone is policing them. I'm guessing there aren't too many Cops that see an auto tune antenna and pull a guy over to check their HF licence...

[Graeme]

Whilst perhaps not the same as having been issued with a licence to operate on VKS737 or other frequencies allocated to private organisations, an amateur radio licence holder is legally allowed to own and transmit using equipment that is capable of transmitting more power than and on frequencies other than what the licence allows. However amateur radio licence holders have passed some operational and regulation tests whereas VKS737 or similar operators may not have.

ACMA inspectors get involved when someone lodges a radio (any frequency) or TV interference complaint to the ACMA.

[Redback]

Whilst perhaps not the same as having been issued with a licence to operate on VKS737 or other frequencies allocated to private organisations, an amateur radio licence holder is legally allowed to own and transmit using equipment that is capable of transmitting more power than and on frequencies other than what the licence allows. However amateur radio licence holders have passed some operational and regulation tests whereas VKS737 or similar operators may not have.

ACMA inspectors get involved when someone lodges a radio (any frequency) or TV interference complaint to the ACMA.

I went for my Novice licence many moons ago(mid 70s) a lot to take in when you're only in your early 20s:rulez:

I still have my converted 18CH 27Meg radio with a 200CH digi scan that goes up into the Ham/HF frequncies:whistling:

It's all done, not a lot of places to put a HF in a D4, it was a tight fit, but it's done now, I'll take a couple of pics when I can, it may help future 7 seat D4 owners, because 5 seat D4s have a little extra space for mounting the main unit.

[Graeme]

I heard very clearly the tail-end of the VKS737 sked on ch 2 (8022 KHz) last night on my amateur radio that's not yet fitted to the RRV, mostly due to not having sorted out what I'm doing about an antenna. I'm currently using a tuner connected to an obsoleted marine antenna that was cut down to 2.6m to make a desert flag pole that fitted inside a D2.

[rar110]

I'm looking at a suitcase set up (thanks Gav, JC & Muddy) using an Anderson plug for power and either mount the autotune to the trailer or the tow bar. I have a fold down mount so it doesn't get in the way of the tail gate. It's a while off as the last bits of the HF are still in the 110.

[Redback]

Antenna turned up yesterday "it's brown:glare:" it works at least, time to start reading and learning:angel:

[Redback]

Had my first TX Friday, spoke to George in Kingaroy, who relayed to Charlieville base for me, I could hear him just and he finally heard me near the end of the talk, so it's working quite well considering the antenna only being 900mm in height.

[Graeme]

You've proved that it works therefore you won't ever need it!

[Redback]

You've proved that it works therefore you won't ever need it!

I hope so Graeme, I certainly hope so!

[rick130]

You've proved that it works therefore you won't ever need it!
I must be the excepting to that rule !

We tested it in Alice Springs before leaving, speaking to Adelaide and then my step father reprogrammed it to my Selcall and then I needed the bugger twice in the last 4000km !

[Graeme]

Rules are meant to be broken, so it seems. Anyway, it's good to know that people are listening and could possibly be not far away if assistance is needed.

A brother was very recently bogged for 5 days waiting for someone to happen along. Not life threatening, indeed quite happy to wait a few more days but having a radio to contact someone might have been appreciated as more days passed.

[DeanoH]

........................ , so it's working quite well considering the antenna only being 900mm in height.

Size isn't everything. [wink11] The correct size is what's important [bigsmile1], and that's what you've got.

It's worthwhile carrying a 30' length of 'hookup' wire as an emergency aerial in case the main antenna gets lost/broken. Just connect one end to the antenna base and toss it over the bushes or whatever for an emergency antenna. Sort of a get out of jail free card. :)

Deano :)

[Redback]

Size isn't everything. [wink11] The correct size is what's important [bigsmile1], and that's what you've got.

It's worthwhile carrying a 30' length of 'hookup' wire as an emergency aerial in case the main antenna gets lost/broken. Just connect one end to the antenna base and toss it over the bushes or whatever for an emergency antenna. Sort of a get out of jail free card. :)

Deano :)

Good idea, never thought of that, I have something that could be used for this, thanks Deano.

[travelrover]

On the subject of Barrett 250 HF's. Can anyone recommend a good support/service company in Sydney? I have a 250 installed in my Td5 Defender but haven't used it (tested it, so far never used it in anger [wink11]) for maybe three years or so. I tried it today and it didn't appear to be transmitting and certainly wasn't receiving anything but static. I have had a look at obvious things such as cable terminations and earth points but am unable to spot anything. Maybe it is an internal battery as mentioned earlier in this thread (i didn't realize it had one so wouldn't know where to look though the main unit is pretty much empty space by modern standards) .. I have a 7 tap single piece antenna, not one of those flash auto-tune thingies [tonguewink]

I would be grateful of any guidance. Are there any HF companies going to be at the Expo this weekend?

[splatters]

It's set to channels.. vka737 is a receiving station / organisation


I have a auto tune aerial but struggling to work out where to fit in the puma (if I bother).

Interested in piccies or suggestions of where you've put aerial and how and where you've set up induce (I have codan unit with remote head)


Did you come up with a decent mount point on the PUMA im still pondering where to locate my radio and Auto tune antenna im thinking i may have to get a mount made up for the back of the Landy as nobody makes a bracket

[travelrover]

Hi all

Does any one know what has happened to Lake Macquarie Communications in Newcastle? Their web site is now unavailable (www.lakecomm.com.au (http://www.lakecomm.com.au)) and no response to the phone, your call could not be connected.

Unit 5/30 Metro Court, Gateshead, NSW 2290

Are they still in business? I am looking for some 'local' HF support...

[87County]

I've never dealt with that business travels, but the absence of any redirection could mean that they're gone.

One of my Barrett sets retains its original purchase paperwork and it was bought from them by its previous owner.

Is there anything in particular that you're looking to find out about or acquire that users here can assist with ?

Reids radio might be the next geographically closest retail business to you.

[travelrover]

I've never dealt with that business travels, but the absence of any redirection could mean that they're gone.

One of my Barrett sets retains its original purchase paperwork and it was bought from them by its previous owner.

Is there anything in particular that you're looking to find out about or acquire that users here can assist with ?

Reids radio might be the next geographically closest retail business to you.

Thanks 87County. As per an earlier post here (Sept last year) I have a Barrett 250 and a not sure if it is working correctly (or even installed correctly) or if is just user error. I bought it from a reputable guy in BNE and had it installed by a local sparkie who was doing some other work for meat the time. As I have a couple of days off I thought I would drive to up to Newcastle and have the rig checked by the them.. but I guess that’s not going to happen now.
Never heard of Reid’s radio, where are they located?

[87County]

...

Never heard of Reid’s radio, where are they located?

Cowra, see Welcome to Reids Radiodata HF Network (http://www.reidsradiodata.com.au)

I cannot recommend or vouch for the above or any business really as I have always just done my own installations and mods.

I think there's other dealers in Canberra as well.

You should be able to tell if yours is functioning - if you like you can pm me your tel no and we can have a chat about it.

[travelrover]

Cowra, see Welcome to Reids Radiodata HF Network (http://www.reidsradiodata.com.au)

I cannot recommend or vouch for the above or any business really as I have always just done my own installations and mods.

I think there's other dealers in Canberra as well.

You should be able to tell if yours is functioning - if you like you can pm me your tel no and we can have a chat about it.


It is receiving but I have never been able to receive any acknowledgement when trying to transmit, so probably user error. Am now busy today doing outside jobs while the weather holds (much over due rain finally forecast for tonight). Will PM tomorrow if that works for you? thanks for the very kind offer

Cheers - Simon

[87County]

OK

[rover-56]

Yeah, but who's going to catch them? How many people have been found guilty if this since the laws were changed? I'm not saying it's a bad idea but laws are useless unless someone is policing them. I'm guessing there aren't too many Cops that see an auto tune antenna and pull a guy over to check their HF licence...

ACMA descended on the Dalhousie camping area once when I was there looking for the giveaway antennas and asking nicely if they could see licences and check programmed frequencies. There were a couple of fines apparently.
Seems you can't have TX frequencies in your radio you are not licenced for....
Even if you don't TX.
Hope the fines were enough to pay for the travelling radio police costs.
Terry

[travelrover]

OK

Thanks for your time on Wednesday 87County. I tried the jumper lead from the antenna base to chassis earth. It made a difference as the red lamp now lights during transmission though still no successful reverb’s! I have ordered a braided earth strap to run from the antenna base to chassis earth and hope that a more perm fix will help.