clutch rattle

[kailanayacht]

Hi the gearbox in my puma defender 2008 sh#t itself at 150k last month and i had full rebuild inc. gbox, transfer case and new clutch was fitted while everything was out by a transmission centre in perth. I am disappointed to hear a rattle sound coming from 'down there' when at idle but the noise goes away when the clutch pedal is depressed. I have attached youtube video links below so you can hear whats going on. I can't upload on this site due to file size limitations. Please have a listen to the videos and let me know what you think. Is this sound 'normal' and i should just live with it? Am happy to do this so long and I have been advised that there is nothing untoward going on. If there is a problem then please let me know what it may be as i may return to the transmission workshop in perth where the service / replacement was recently undertaken and see if i can have any problems rectified under warranty (within 6 months). Unfortunately i have sent e-mail containing the attached videos to them asking for their recommendation however i am not getting any word from them as yet.

Puma defender clutch rattle 2 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/RiG6AVqWJnQ)
Puma defender clutch rattle - YouTube (https://youtu.be/h-MyN_tRqGc)
Defender 2011 2.2 Puma - Rattle - YouTube (https://youtu.be/BHevf7IJ-oc)

[justinc]

Hi the gearbox in my puma defender 2008 sh#t itself at 150k last month and i had full rebuild inc. gbox, transfer case and new clutch was fitted while everything was out by a transmission centre in perth. I am disappointed to hear a rattle sound coming from 'down there' when at idle but the noise goes away when the clutch pedal is depressed. I have attached youtube video links below so you can hear whats going on. I can't upload on this site due to file size limitations. Please have a listen to the videos and let me know what you think. Is this sound 'normal' and i should just live with it? Am happy to do this so long and I have been advised that there is nothing untoward going on. If there is a problem then please let me know what it may be as i may return to the transmission workshop in perth where the service / replacement was recently undertaken and see if i can have any problems rectified under warranty (within 6 months). Unfortunately i have sent e-mail containing the attached videos to them asking for their recommendation however i am not getting any word from them as yet.

Puma defender clutch rattle 2 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/RiG6AVqWJnQ)
Puma defender clutch rattle - YouTube (https://youtu.be/h-MyN_tRqGc)
Defender 2011 2.2 Puma - Rattle - YouTube (https://youtu.be/BHevf7IJ-oc)

If an aftermarket clutch was fitted then it is possible that is where the issue lies. The OEM clutch isn't all that well designed however after the 5th or so revision it has improved a lot. Why the dual mass trsnsit flywheel wasn't fitted i have no idea. They don't seem to suffer anywhere near as much and last quite well...

[1nando]

Jc: is the trsnsit dual mass fly wheel/clutch kit a straigth fit into the defender.
These clutch and gearbox issues seem to be more common place in the 2.4 version puma's.

[justinc]

Jc: is the trsnsit dual mass fly wheel/clutch kit a straigth fit into the defender.
These clutch and gearbox issues seem to be more common place in the 2.4 version puma's.

I suspect that it is. I have access to an old transit flywheel and clutch assembly for when i next do a defender one do i can check. Will keep you posted. There are a few instances of flywheel problems however doesn't come close to the complaints about defender clutches😅. For example when you buy a new starter for a transit there is a leaflet in the box to inform you that the warranty on the starter is void if there are found to be metallic particles etc from the failing flywheel in the starter... Haven't personally seen this happen to the transit flywheel but tgey must've put it there for a reason.

[mwbrydon]

I'm about to get the clutch done on my '08 130 (125k Kms) as I have a similar rattle.

I've been advised that if the freewheel is causing an issue it can be machined to fix the problem without the need for a replacement.

[DiscoMick]

Ours occasionally has a rattle when idling, but it goes away with clutch in and is not continual. Do I need to worry?

[justinc]

That is the beginning of the issue. The centre damper springs start to fall to bits....

Jc

[DazzaTD5]

*Clutch rattle is pretty common (engine running, in neutral, clutch out) on the Defender TDCi (puma) 2.4lt model round that 70K plus.
*Done plenty of clutches in the 2.4lt using the AP brand clutch kit, machine flywheel, replace slave cylinder and have not had a faulty one (either that or they took it somewhere else, but I generally believe one of "my customers" would bring it back to me for a look see first.)
*I've not done a clutch on a 2.2lt, but service more than the 2.4lt and so far so good, no rattly ones yet.

While I dont have an issue with using duel mass flywheels (ah la TD5), I dont really see any reason to put one on a TDCi (puma) unless there are some sweet benefits such as:
*makes clutch last 50 million km's
*makes a Defender TDCi (puma) gearshift like a performance supercar.
*makes engine sweet sweet smooth like a roller.
*is cheaper than machining the solid flywheel
*does some other mystical magic

Regards
Daz

[D90 orkney]

I have this rattle since Christmas. 70k on the clock

[tact]

Before my 2013 TDCi came out of warranty last year I made a lot of noise about suspecting the adapter shaft had issues, and the clutch started making a bit of a rattle as described in this thread. LR Malaysia dutifully pulled the gearbox/t'fer case out. Sure enough the adapter shaft was dry and fretting badly, and a few of the springs in the clutch plate were broken. All fixed under the warranty fortunately.

Research at the time (10-12 mths ago) seemed to indicate that some of the earlier batches of clutch plates would fall apart like this between 30k-50k km. Newer versions apparently have it sorted properly. Hoping mine is now "a good one".

[DiscoMick]

The worry is the service records show the previous owner had the clutch replaced, but now here it is coming back again at 85,000 kms. So do I just ignore it or get something done about it?

[alittlebitconcerned]

I cannot advise what direction to take, but after the 5th clutch replacement on my 08 Puma I decided to live with the inevitable rattle. My current clutch has been rattling now for 6 years and counting without any apparent issue.

[Baytown]

My 2012 110 has a noisy clutch rattle as well.
It started around 85000km, and I've just turned over 110000km.
I get pretty isolated on some trips, and often tow 2 1/2 tons of off road van, so am concerned about catestrophic clutch failure, and will soon be fitting a HD clutch unit as soon as my bank balance recovers from my electric push bike purchase!
Its holding me back from really going bush at the moment.
I also intend to fit a Red Booster Clutch Servo from the UK, but engine bay realestate is at a premium after fitting my Provent 200 and the Alisport radiator expansion can.
Needs a cretive work around by Mitch!
Ken

[ATH]

The clutch is one thing I've never had a problem with on my 2010 110 and it's done 173K. Not that apart from a sloppy drive train there's been any real problems with the vehicle at all.
It did have a replacement transfer box at 98K but whether the stealer changed the clutch at the same time I wouldn't know. They certainly didn't grease the output shaft but that's been replaced by DazzaTd5 and will now last for ever......
AlanH.

[DiscoMick]

Mine only rattles at idle so I'm inclined to ignore it for a while and focus on other priorities. Is that irresponsible?

[tact]

Mine only rattles at idle so I'm inclined to ignore it for a while and focus on other priorities. Is that irresponsible?

The pic of my clutch was at around 45k km when a light rattle started (went away with pedal pressed).

Bonus pic - adapter shaft at same time.

121373121374

Neil

[DiscoMick]

Hmm. The adapter shaft is on my wish list, so I'll add the clutch rattle to it, I think.

[DiscoMick]

Can I ask how much it costs to replace the standard output shaft with the Allisport one with the hole to allow oil to seep down the shaft? Like to put the job on my wish list. Appreciate any estimates.

[D90 orkney]

My clutch rattle is becoming more prominent.

I would like to replace it to something that won't have this issue again.

What are the recommendations on this? Should I go heavy duty? Will that affect pedal stiffness?

[Baytown]

I've gone (going) heavy duty (towing a caravan) and am having a Red Booster Clutch Servo installed as well. Can actuate the clutch with a few fingers if you wanted to for some reason.
Its going to cause me grief re space under the bonnet, but we'll sort it!

Ken

[Baytown]

LUK Germany HD clutch for my 2.2 Puma fitted today. Great. Geez my OEM springs were VERY loose. Lots of meat left on the pads, but springs were gone.
Its a very small clutch plate in our vehicles!

[DiscoMick]

My clutch rattle is becoming more prominent.

I would like to replace it to something that won't have this issue again.

What are the recommendations on this? Should I go heavy duty? Will that affect pedal stiffness?

I think I read somewhere Dazza saying he used AP replacement clutches.

[DazzaTD5]

I think I read somewhere Dazza saying he used AP replacement clutches.

Yes AP brand which I get from Rovacraft, I've not had any issues with them. Ask Justic C what he uses......

Regards
Daz

[D90 orkney]

Spoke to Les Richmond today about clutches. He said the latest Land Rover clutch should fix the rattle issue. Il probably do something about it when I get back from overseas in a couple months

[mwbrydon]

I got the latest LR clutch installed and the flywheel machined in my MY07 130 last month and haven't had a rattle since!

I'm not doing much towing and have no real need for a HD clutch.

Baytown - The mechanic showed me the old clutch and the springs were gone on mine too. One of them had been almost chewed through, would have been bad news if I left it too much longer.

[Baytown]

Mick;
$1600 including all the normal required gear, machining fly wheel etc.
My output shaft came straight out, lubed in the factory which was nice to hear!
Of interest, even though it's a HD clutch with 20% stronger spring rate, my clutch action if anything feels a little less effort. That, and no rattle in neutral, I'm a very happy boy.
Lets hope this one lasts 100,000Kms at least.
Best wishes all.

Ken

[tact]

Spoke to Les Richmond today about clutches. He said the latest Land Rover clutch should fix the rattle issue. Il probably do something about it when I get back from overseas in a couple months

That was my finding after doing a lot of reading - the issue was recognised (if not admitted?) by LR and the later version of the LR clutch sorts the issue. Some of the later TDCi defenders (IIRC late 2014 and on?) got the newer clutch from factory and should not have an issue at all. I got mine done under warranty FOC.

[D90 orkney]

That was my finding after doing a lot of reading - the issue was recognised (if not admitted?) by LR and the later version of the LR clutch sorts the issue. Some of the later TDCi defenders (IIRC late 2014 and on?) got the newer clutch from factory and should not have an issue at all. I got mine done under warranty FOC.


I just dont don't want to get it and then this issue comes up again. When my 90 went in for warranty for something unrelated a couple years ago they changed my clutch. When I asked why they just said because it was out we did it. I thought it was strange. I hope that's not the latest fixed version....never had rattle prior to that. It started rattling at Christmas time.

[komaterpillar]

My 2013 model has 48k km's on it and has had the rattles for the last 6-7k km's. it has copped a fair hiding. Will be getting a ClutchFix clutch when the time comes.

[DiscoMick]

Mine is rattling too. Might have to start planning for a replacement. How bad can we let the rattle get before it's time to replace? All our cash is going into a reno at the moment.