TD5 in a P38

[woko]

Has anyone fitted a TD5 into a P38?

[rar110]

I remember someone on here did years ago. Try the search.

[Eevo]

sounds like a downgrade..

[rar110]

For the vehicle or motor? [emoji48]

Diesels are very much on the outer in Europe these days.

[DazzaTD5]

sounds like a downgrade..



IMHO!!!!
Down grade for a perfectly good TD5 if you ask me... but hey, who am I to judge right???? [bigsmile][bigsmile][wink11]

Atleast it gets rid of one of the failure items on a P38A...so then use a Disco 2 auto and LT230 transfer case.... and wow, you have a good vehicle again...

ohh... but then there is that non UV stable interior plastic to replace...

dont all P38A owners wish they had Disco 2's anyway??? [tonguewink]

ok ok...sorry all, no offense intended, just having a crack (oh I just couldnt resist!!!)

----
PS a customer on here has a Range Rover Classic that is running a TD5 and Disco 2 bits, I think he is quite chuffed with it

Regards
Daz

[PLR]

IMHO!!!!
Down grade for a perfectly good TD5 if you ask me... but hey, who am I to judge right???? [bigsmile][bigsmile][wink11]

Atleast it gets rid of one of the failure items on a P38A...so then use a Disco 2 auto and LT230 transfer case.... and wow, you have a good vehicle again...

ohh... but then there is that non UV stable interior plastic to replace...

dont all P38A owners wish they had Disco 2's anyway??? [tonguewink]

ok ok...sorry all, no offense intended, just having a crack (oh I just couldnt resist!!!)

----
PS a customer on here has a Range Rover Classic that is running a TD5 and Disco 2 bits, I think he is quite chuffed with it

Regards
Daz


G`day , the transfer may be a problem , do you move the diffs or fit the case upside down or something ?

I think the D2 may have suffered as many , may be more V8 losses than the P38a and at least the P38a has an excuse they were supposed to be fixed by the time of the Discovery .

I guess the TD5 can be bought fairly good now as there seem to be a lot of TD5 D2s for cheap but they have a few Ks on them .

[DazzaTD5]

G`day , the transfer may be a problem , do you move the diffs or fit the case upside down or something ?

I think the D2 may have suffered as many , may be more V8 losses than the P38a and at least the P38a has an excuse they were supposed to be fixed by the time of the Discovery .

I guess the TD5 can be bought fairly good now as there seem to be a lot of TD5 D2s for cheap but they have a few Ks on them .


More just having a crack rather than anything useful as information.
I believe from memory the customers Rangie Classic has a Disco 2 auto, TD5, all the computers, wiring.
The transfer case was the orig Rangie one.

Regards
Daz

[PLR]

More just having a crack rather than anything useful as information.
I believe from memory the customers Rangie Classic has a Disco 2 auto, TD5, all the computers, wiring.
The transfer case was the orig Rangie one.

Regards
Daz


Whatever you like but the P38A diffs are on the opposite side to a Classic so how do you overcome that in a P38A fitted with a LT230 ? It will bolt on but the tail/drive shafts may be a problem .

[Keithy P38]

Could adapt D2 (or even defender) diffs to the P38 and relocate any items that may be in the road of the tail shafts (fuel tank, etc)?

That would then open up wheel/tyre sizes (legally) and those floating axles too!

Who's first?!!

[woko]

I have a full disco 2 that has been written off. Swapping parts will not be a problem. I'm just unsure how to go about it with the bcu in the p38.

[loanrangie]

M57 would be a better swap, get some parts from the UK and it would be a bolt in conversion.

[woko]

M57 would be a better swap, get some parts from the UK and it would be a bolt in conversion.
A m57 would be better but I already have a td5 and the p38 is a 4.0 so it will have a 4hp22 auto.

[strangy]

I have a full disco 2 that has been written off. Swapping parts will not be a problem. I'm just unsure how to go about it with the bcu in the p38.

This will be the headache.
But.. I would look at swapping the entire lot.
If you have RAVE for the P38 you can sort it.
If I can put all that (D2 electrics and auto) into a 130 DC, fitting to the P38 is walk in the park.[emoji12]

If you are going to have a go, feel free to give ma call.

[PLR]

G`day ,

finallyrangie here fitted a 2.8 mechanical diesel a bigger tdi , its is the for sale section so he would have some of the P38a wiring sorted .

Justin Cooper made a post at some time about fitting a TD5 to a P38A , he was given a P38aA so he may have some thoughts .

There`s a Diesel P38A for sale at present in Vic it is factory with the 2.5 BMW , don`t know its full story but it`s looking for it`s sixth owner in 3 years , which sends out warning bells . That`s how long i`ve followed it .

At $6000 if you don`t yet have a P38A it may warrant a look , if we hadn`t got a TD6 L322 it would be in our drive .

[PLR]

G`day again ,

sorry i didn`t read your last properly .

As you have both a D2 and P38 fitting the engine and doing the wiring will be the task .

If it were me i`d only change the P38A the front of the transfer forward .

I don`t think ill of the borg-warner .

I don`t know if the 4HP22E is internally different between the petrol and diesel it may just be the ECUs but it would need a discovery ECU suited to the TD5 , i would think .

The Factory BMW P38A diesel also uses the 4HP22E not the 24 and uses the borg-warner transfer so it`s not new ground .

[PLR]

Transmission ECU .

UHC00160 or UHC000160 will work for D2 petrol and TD5 and same in a THOR P38A.

Gems P38a use a different ECU for 4.0 and 4.6 as well as being different to the D2 and Thor .

Gems ECU say on them which capacity .

Thor don`t have a capacity on them .

Gems have specific numbers , Thor have specific numbers ,

The above numbed ECUs would still work with a Gems but are listed as D2 and Thor .

Any will plug in

[woko]

It's a 4.0 Thor atm. So auto ecu will be the same

[PLR]

It's a 4.0 Thor atm. So auto ecu will be the same


Had a look an the Russian Microcat and it doesn`t agree with the information from retailers that i used .

The retailers say what i told you but the cat says not .

The RR ECU will run the trans but the right one for the TD5 will be from a TD5 auto .

The cat differentiates between petrol with TC and not but not for Diesel .

[DazzaTD5]

I'm sure others have the answers, or you need to cross the bridge as you come to it, but this is my own thought....

If sticking with the orignal P38A borg warner transfer case:
*Does the transfer case ECU need info/integration with any other ECU such as auto, engine.
*If the transfer case ECU is stand alone then this will solve one hurdle.

If using the P38A auto:
*How much data does it want from the engine
*But allows the auto shift assembly to remain unchanged for auto/transfer case shifting.
*Is the bell housing bolt pattern the same on a P38A auto as a Disco 2 (TD5, v8 are the same)

If using the D2 TD5 auto:
"Will it integrate ok with the auto shift assembly.
*As the TD5 auto mainshaft is longer on the transfer case end (as in the adaptor housing on the end is also longer to accommodate the longer mainshaft) will it push the TD5 engine forward into a better position or will it foul on the front diff assembly (assuming your keeping the borg warner transfer case in its original location)
*Using the TD5 auto will mean using the TD5 auto ECU (between a TD5, V8 on a disco 2, the difference is only a signal wire on a different circuit)

TD5 Engine:
*Mounting engine using (new) TD5 engine mounts.
*Disco 2 engine ECU, electrical harness and how much of it is going to give faults with items not connected to it, such as ABS (which again may well all "swap" over quite happily.

Using all Disco 2 driveline (engine, auto transfer case, diff assembly), harness, computer, shift assembly:
*Solves alot of "issues" with regards to above, so the main "issues" would be how different do the diff assemblies mount when compared to the P38A.
*cutting down (or rather extending) front/rear prop shafts (as in there is something like 8" difference between a P38A wheelbase and that of a Disco 2.
*Width i'd guess are about the same, but obviously put a tape measure on it and the chassis width.
*how to either fit a disco 2 instrument binnacle and disco 2 abs OR if the P38A stuff can be integrated into the disco 2 harness
*What do you do with the air suspension then

thats all I can think of.... *shrugs*

Regards
Daz

[PLR]

The other bloke i should have though of is the one that did the customer car mentioned earlier .

It`s an LSE classic with a TD5 which is mated to a transmission from a Jaguar , an electric one that he built for the task and he wired the EAS to work , he did this quite a few years back and it was done in Cairns and would have been sold from Toowoomba .

He could probably tell you more on the wiring than most .

The reason i can give you his contact here is because he started a business in Toowoomba .

His name is Don , his user here is donrover0 .

Business name is

Rad Rover
41 Ball St
Drayton 4350.

0420591030

radrover07@gmail.com

[finallyrangie]

Hello,

I'm the nut who put a 2.8 diesel into a p38, mine is a gems, so not sure how much will transfer to Thor but it's actually pretty simple to use the existing gearbox.

The only thing the gearbox needs is a throttle position sensor, I have an adjustable linkage to the factory sensor so I could adjust the change point, the gearbox has its own output speed sensor.

Apart from the crank angle sensor and wiring for the dashboard instruments the gems seems quite happy to run without information, it stores error messages in the memory but nothing on the dash display, I have a list of the wires you can cut and the ones to keep somewhere if you would like it.

On a long run I average 8.5 litres per 100, never seen worse than 12 without low range, it goes a long way on 100 litre fuel tank, just remember to get a hole saw into the filer pipe, otherwise the diesel nozzle doesn't fit at the servo!

Hope some of that helps

[LRT]

G`day ,

finallyrangie here fitted a 2.8 mechanical diesel a bigger tdi , its is the for sale section so he would have some of the P38a wiring sorted .

Justin Cooper made a post at some time about fitting a TD5 to a P38A , he was given a P38aA so he may have some thoughts .

There`s a Diesel P38A for sale at present in Vic it is factory with the 2.5 BMW , don`t know its full story but it`s looking for it`s sixth owner in 3 years , which sends out warning bells . That`s how long i`ve followed it .

At $6000 if you don`t yet have a P38A it may warrant a look , if we hadn`t got a TD6 L322 it would be in our drive .


Wow that's a lot of owners! I saw that too and wondered how hard it would be to put in the later Td6 from the L322. However, I'm too busy with Freelander 1's at the moment. [bigsmile1]

[loanrangie]

Wow that's a lot of owners! I saw that too and wondered how hard it would be to put in the later Td6 from the L322. However, I'm too busy with Freelander 1's at the moment. [bigsmile1]
They came factory fitted with a td6 so with parts from a bm and some from UK it will be a bolt in job.

[LRT]

They came factory fitted with a td6 so with parts from a bm and some from UK it will be a bolt in job.

With the later M57 Td6 or the older M51 Td6? Sorry I wasn't specific. The M51 had hot start problems IIRC.

[loanrangie]

If I was going to do it I'd use the M57.

[PLR]

Wow that's a lot of owners! I saw that too and wondered how hard it would be to put in the later Td6 from the L322. However, I'm too busy with Freelander 1's at the moment. [bigsmile1]


G`day ,

as i said i don`t know what the story with it is i have only conversed with 3 of the last 5 owners and only via Email .

Each one including the current side stepped questions and wouldn`t get into specifics .

It has a book full of work and receipts that has been done on it in the UK and here , it had new air springs , compressor and valve block fitted in the UK as well as a new head , the 3rd or 4th owner fitted coil springs as it is now .

The M51 being mechanical electric injection seems to be a good thing and i could only find 1 thing apart from the usual things that will stop anything and that was in the injector pump there is a potentiometer that could fail but it is a unit that can be replaced , probably not on the side of the road .

There is a fix for the hot start thing .

Coarse you won`t find a lot of M51s here and the heavy bits from OS would be expensive , though surprisingly things like radiators which are unique to them can be found new here .

They are 2.5 ltrs and there`s talk of being under powered but the M57 is just under 3 lts and people say it is under powered , well the 1 we have when it`s climbing a tarred hill and the car your passing decides it should stay if front and the RR kicks back a gear and the turbo get to spinning , you`d have trouble convincing me it was under powered .


The physical bolting in of the M57 would probably be not all that awkward , don`t know what mounts the M51 uses but the M57 ones are not run of the mill and the wires would be a major job or expense if a loom was bought and a L322 with a M57 would be a better way to go i would think as the arse is certainly falling for them but i`ve never driven a P38a M51 .

For the right money i would still have this one but somethings not right and it spent time in UK winters before coming here so it may be rust that is the thing not talked about , in some of the pics it could be seen that it has done some salt time .

[LRT]

G`day ,

as i said i don`t know what the story with it is i have only conversed with 3 of the last 5 owners and only via Email .

Each one including the current side stepped questions and wouldn`t get into specifics .

It has a book full of work and receipts that has been done on it in the UK and here , it had new air springs , compressor and valve block fitted in the UK as well as a new head , the 3rd or 4th owner fitted coil springs as it is now .

The M51 being mechanical electric injection seems to be a good thing and i could only find 1 thing apart from the usual things that will stop anything and that was in the injector pump there is a potentiometer that could fail but it is a unit that can be replaced , probably not on the side of the road .

There is a fix for the hot start thing .

Coarse you won`t find a lot of M51s here and the heavy bits from OS would be expensive , though surprisingly things like radiators which are unique to them can be found new here .

They are 2.5 ltrs and there`s talk of being under powered but the M57 is just under 3 lts and people say it is under powered , well the 1 we have when it`s climbing a tarred hill and the car your passing decides it should stay if front and the RR kicks back a gear and the turbo get to spinning , you`d have trouble convincing me it was under powered .


The physical bolting in of the M57 would probably be not all that awkward , don`t know what mounts the M51 uses but the M57 ones are not run of the mill and the wires would be a major job or expense if a loom was bought and a L322 with a M57 would be a better way to go i would think as the arse is certainly falling for them but i`ve never driven a P38a M51 .

For the right money i would still have this one but somethings not right and it spent time in UK winters before coming here so it may be rust that is the thing not talked about , in some of the pics it could be seen that it has done some salt time .

Yes it does set off warning bells. They should command a higher price due to their rarity. I wonder why we didn't get them? I guess if you could afford to buy one, horse power was above fuel economy!

[woko]

Thanks for the replies. It's not going to happen. I was offered a good price for the p38, So I sold it as is.
It's a shame we didn't get the diesel p38 here. Maybe the diesel in classic killed it.

[prelude]

Not sure why you did not get the diesels but I always wondered why people shoehorned the wildy differing diesel engines in cars...

Personally if I were to ever go this route I would choose a 80's mercedes benz engine, something like the OM617 (with turbo, still onderpowered but one of the most indestructible engines I know) or the om606. Both can be tuned up quite a bit reliably if need be.

Having said that: diesel is for trucks and gas (lpg) is for cooking :) I'll stick to petrol for the time beeing.

[stevo2495]

Has anyone fitted a TD5 into a P38?

hi mate , am trying to do this conversion at the moment, unfortunately , the sump is positioned over the p38 diff, wont go without major mods to the sump

[Eevo]

can you reverse the sump? i had to do that on my ls1 d2 conversion.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

maybe Eevo,, I think its a left -right pumpkin thing,, I think,,

[Tins]

Not sure why you did not get the diesels but I always wondered why people shoehorned the wildy differing diesel engines in cars...

Personally if I were to ever go this route I would choose a 80's mercedes benz engine, something like the OM617 (with turbo, still onderpowered but one of the most indestructible engines I know) or the om606. Both can be tuned up quite a bit reliably if need be.

Having said that: diesel is for trucks and gas (lpg) is for cooking :) I'll stick to petrol for the time beeing.


Why a Benz? The things came with the BMW M51 I6 engine from the factory. Much easier to fit one of them, I would have thought.

[p38arover]

.so then use a Disco 2 auto and LT230 transfer case.... and wow, you have a good vehicle again...

ohh... but then there is that non UV stable interior plastic to replace...


Nothing wrong with the P38A gearbox and transfer case. Besides, the P38A has the diffs on the opposite side to the Disco so your propshafts would not align.

The plastics on my P38A were still good after 20 years, at least 13 of those it was never garaged.

[prelude]

I know the Beamers are much easier to fit, especially since they came as standard but I do not get the same warm feeling of confidence on those units. The merc engines really do a million miles without a rebuild...

slightly ot: Speaking of BMW, did you know there were defenders with straight six BMW engines?

The BMW M2's Top Engineer Has this Amazing 'Red Mamba' Land Rover Defender (http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/car-accessories/a31958/engineers-cars-the-red-mamba/)

[justinc]

OMG is there no end to the bizarre ideas i have seen lately???😮😮

Just buy a d2, OR a p38a, or better still an L322...

Talk about self inflicted injury!!!

Jc

[strangy]

OMG is there no end to the bizarre ideas i have seen lately???[emoji50][emoji50]

Just buy a d2, OR a p38a, or better still an L322...

Talk about self inflicted injury!!!

Jc

Took the words right out of my mouth.