Which Model - Long Term Purchase

[Strop]

Hi all,

Just seeking some opinions. First time buyer of a 4WD. After looking for a while I have decided on a Discovery 4. My wife does not like the look of the cab-chassis models so I came to the LR Discovery. I would like this to be a long term vehicle for multiple uses. Touring and towing. Don't have a van either but that will be the next thing I begin to look at after sorting out a 4WD - Just in the buying process now - second hand.

After buying a recent Caravaning Magazine and not seeing one Disco pictured (1 Defender) I began thinking about my choices again.

I like nice cars (always have - who doesn't) so I know where that would lead me if money was not an issue - a HSE. I know I can't afford a HSE new or with low Kim's but even if I could, I have begun to think about which model is the most appropriate. The basis for a lot of my consideration has been power. Therefore it has been around the SDV6 based motor. So first question - motor wise is the 2.7/3 Litre single turbo model that much different to the 3 Litre twin turbo in the real world. Is it worth the extra expense? Does it increase the servicing costs of the vehicle much? Does the extra power make towing that much easier? Does it make driving off-road easier?

Is the benefit of 18" rims so great that you don't even go past the TDV6 unless you have money to spend on two sets of tires and rims? Might be if you become a serious rock hopper.

My next thought is then about the extras you add - the level of complexity you add to a vehicle. In some regard I expect that is much of the attraction with the Defender - simplicity. Anyway back to the Disco - Does adding extras like cameras, be they reversing or surround types add negatively to the car as far as maintenance / durability. I would ask this about all the options. Having driven cars with headlights that turn as you turn the wheel and living in the country I think adaptive headlights are almost essential but they too add to the complexity. The Discovery has many options it comes with from the factory. I look at many of the extras you can get with the vehicle and they are nice but are they essential? Obviously the answer is no. Are you better off buying a base model as it will provide you with more reliability over time?

So, having owned, driven and used a Discovery - if you were given a blank cheque to buy a second hand Discovery 4 or even a new one - What model would you buy and what accessories would you look for if the only proviso was that you had to live with it for the next 10 years. I am not talking here about after market accessories there is much discussion in various threads about that. Just straight from the factory options.

Laurie

[DiscoMick]

In a D4 the SDV6 SE would be my choice. Brilliant for touring and towing. No need to modify, just some accessories and stronger tyres.

[Strop]

Kind of thinking the same.

[kreecha]

I'd like to chime in if you don't mind.
Caveat - I don't own a D4, yet.

But this is my ongoing search in Carsales;
- SDV6 (power/economy)
- 8-speed (power/economy/[and I believe]coincides with a traction control software update/better for towing - more time in lock-up [less heat])
- full display screen (not small screen with number pad underneath)
- HSE (rear A/C [3-kids, plus more to come], adaptive headlights, memory seats)
*or an SE with rear A/C, memory seats, and full screen - adaptive headlights aren't a deal killer).
- less than 80,000km's (gearbox service)
Preferably in white, with the e-diff.

And the cheapest one (and only one for sale) today for my criteria is $69,990 :-O The one for sale is silver, but has the e-diff. We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Land-Rover-Discovery-4-2013/OAG-AD-14002378/?Cr=4)

I would still need to add a few things like
- roof rack (firewood/swag/rifle box/chainsaw)
- front bar (no explaining needed)
- winch (as above)
- long range tank (overnight drives Vic to SA/Stuart highway driving/Kimberleys)
- rear wheel carrier (facilitate above/touch parking)
- radio

Also I am confused - you say you can\t afford a HSE, but you pose the question... 'If you were given a blank cheque'

[ATH]

I went for the SE poverty pack as don't yet feel the need for the gismos which tell me I'm too close or straying from my lane etc. which are all available on the HSE. When I reckon I need that stuff I'll give up driving. [bigsmile1] Plus the SE woz heaps cheaper....
You can always add on things later as they're a fairly adaptive vehicle but if you get one with a reversing cam. it'll already have the wide screen suitable for the GPS system later.
I'm pleased with it so far but ma scratching my bald head for the best way to fit all our crap in the back..... cooks cooking and cleaning gear takes up mobs of room. [wink11]
Good luck.
AlanH.

[Strop]

Alan, I don't think it is a poverty pack - maybe the sweet spot though. Not sure what is harder - the fit out or the purchase. [bigsmile]

Kreecha, why the blank cheque. Well I think a lot of the new HSE units that are out there are not from people who would read these forums. People who read this forum may own them as they come onto the market second hand (Sorry, not trying to offend anyone). In looking at car sales I seem to see more TDV and HSE models than SE. Thinking therefore that there are people who are buying price wise (TDV) and luxury wise (HSE). This might be reflective of - I want the car but can't afford the upmarket versions as opposed to the tax man told me to buy it and it will never see dirt or tow. So if given the choice what would people buy and put with it - hence blank cheque. When I started this research I think I would have said HSE - I am sure I wouldn't now.

Buying a second hand car is always compromise. My current car has low profile tyres - looked great when purchased (still does) but I would NEVER buy a car with low profile tyres again. So bringing it back to the Discovery - Perhaps people are buying the TDV simply because it has 18" rims. Sure after reading heaps here you can get AT tyres for the 19" & 20" rims but would you want to go that route. Would you option up a SE or HSE to 20" rims? To buy that car new, realising that you were going to do some beach work might be leading you to trouble or the expense of having to buy 5x18" rims and tyres - $4000. True, a consideration for a second hand purchase also but would it impact on a purchase with a blank cheque.

Yes there are specific options you get with a car to suit your needs. You have mentioned rear air conditioner. Perhaps someone with kids would forgo that but perhaps someone with no kids and experience with the Discovery would say - it is a big car and you need the rear AC no matter what. That is the type of comment/advice I was hoping would come out.

Similarly reversing camera - one of the things on my list. It can be optioned up to surround cameras but is that a waste of money in the real world? I thought it would be good if you were driving by yourself on tracks but is it? Probably get advice here not to drive by yourself or that the driving companion outside giving advice is a far better option. As Alan said - reversing camera = wide screen.

As far as the navigation system - with my last purchase I said I was going to use my iPhone rather than have an inbuilt GPS. The data in them dates very quickly and the updates cost $$$$$$. So is the GPS system not worth having, but is the bluetooth functionality essential and does that mean you need the updated stereo. The Hema maps app is $99. Map apps on your phone iPad can be free and work well. An iPad mini isn't that expensive.

I love my music but really, is there any difference between 11 speakers and 17 speakers when you are driving along the road with all that extraneous noise. Suppose it depends - AC/DC or Mozart. But if that brings bluetooth then a different story.

So hopefully there will be some advice on what are the MUST HAVES rather than the wants.

Kreecha, I wonder if you are finding this process as difficult as I am. In the real world there are a lot of inflated prices out there, especially form private sellers. I can understand dealer pricing with the need to provide warranty, finance while it sits on the floor, etc. I can also understand private sellers wanting to get top dollar also but I am sure that there is no understanding, or perhaps just plain indifference (too much money) when it comes to trades. The dealer tells them they will give them $60K as a trade on a $100K vehicle - they think their car is worth $60K. If I walked in and asked for the the identical vehicle for cash they may say $80K. That means the trade is really only worth $40K. If they can sell the vehicle for $40K plus they are in front. I have always asked for a cash price, haggled them lower before letting a dealer see my car as a trade option. Then I know what they are really giving me for my car. Anyway - my perspective.

I will continue my search with my list - my wife has only one stipulation - Cream Interior. Makes it a bit harder.

All the best

Laurie

[veebs]

We had been looking for a while, and acted very fast when the ALMOST perfect car came up. As you might expect, the good deals don't stay up long.

Our desired list was very similar to yours Kreecha, but ultimately our budget dictated where we were able to go. Ended up with a 2010 SE model - older than preferred, but has been kept in awesome condition. Non-land rover nuts can't tell if it is brand new or not!

So, we had to forego the rear air, e-diff, 8 speed, and adaptive headlights, but did manage to squeeze in the SDV6 (named the 3.0 TDV6 in this year model), full screen display, close to the right km (~100k vs target of 80k), and the right colour (white).

I ended up setting the search for the really desired items (Price, Location, SDV6, White) which in WA narrowed the field enough to check each one out carefully as they come up.

A few months on, and absolutely no regrets. In the hottest of weather the car is still plenty cool, the lower price has meant we were able to send it off for a transmission service right away, brake rotors/pads were changed to new as a condition of sale, as was getting a full service. I sincerely doubt our off-roading level will ever result in missing the e-diff, the standard systems on the car are pretty epic already. Resale might be better with one, but for a long term purchase resale is probably less of an issue anyway (and if you're buying used, it makes less difference again)

Some gizmos are easier to add than others - I would definitely recommend the rear camera, though the GPS is just OK (PITA that you can't enter destinations when moving). I've added the cubby box fridge (awesome for days out - we enjoyed cold cheese and crackers whilst 'rock hopping' this weekend!). Headlights are apparently easy to change to HID/Adaptive, though pricey. Have a look at this thread for more details on adding extras later: Retrofitting missing factory options to new-ish LR's; FL2, Evoque, D3/D4, RRS, etc... (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/communications-car-audio-and-electronics/231941-retrofitting-missing-factory-options-new-ish-lrs-fl2-evoque-d3-d4-rrs-etc.html)


Ultimately, in it's most basic and stock configuration, the D4 is super comfy and incredibly capable. I don't think you can really go wrong, as long as you make sure the basics are in order (service history, no evidence of damaging off road use, etc)

[DiscoMick]

Good points. I would definitely want the rear e-diff for towing and extra traction, plus the traction control also works with it for an awesome combination.
In my case it's all theoretical as the Defender is just fine for now.

[rambada]

We went through the same process - what to buy, and whats needed vs neccesary and at what $. We ended up with a 2011 SE SDV6 2011 3.0L.

Accessories included


Bull bar (no winch)
Decent spots
Roof rack
UHF radio


Big Regret

Not getting one with the upgraded touch screen sterio (has reversing camera). This is not upgradable aftermarket and bugs me to heck


Nice to have - but I haven't had the requirement for either

8 speed box
E-diff


We tow an off road van (2.5T), the 3.0L and D4 engineering make this an absolute breeze on and off road. Haven't encountered any situations where I didn't think I would make it or have loss of confidence in the vehicle (though wifey has become concerned a few times). Its a turn key operation (turn the key and it starts every time) combines brilliant onroad manners with offroad capacity - just like the ads say. Just maintain it (transmission service is a must), monitor this forum for 'quirks' (the best resource and support going on the Internet) and you will have a permagrin.

[Strop]

It continues to be good to get advice/help.

Large Screen/ Reversing Camera : I have removed a couple which do not have the large screen from my list - no rear camera. Essential option for both new and second hand.

E-Diff: In all my searching I think I have only come across 2 cars with the e-diff. It did not appear to be a very popular option. Not sure if it is absolutely necessary for my needs but I can see why some would want it. Not a must have it would appear for the new buyers - not needed for city kids carriage.

Steering Tilt/Reach: I also picked up by accident that some early models (low end) do not have tilt and reach steering wheels. At least their specs say it is tilt only. That cut a few more from the list but I see it is now standard on the later models throughout the range.

3 Litre: I think the 3 Litre motor is essential - would prefer the twin turbo over the single but not a deal breaker. Rules out early 2.7 Litre models though.

Veebs, thank you for that link to the mods that can be added after. I suppose what it told me was that it can be done but you are much better off getting them from the start - if you can. It also told me that some of the add ons are $$$$$$.

I am expecting this search to take some time though I am will to travel for the right car. Even looking as far afield as WA & NT from NSW. Wife is on holidays soon so picking up a new car can be a holiday.

Laurie

[Melbourne Park]

Hi all,

Laurie

I do have an HSE 3 litre, so its an 8 speed.

Reason why was primarily the seats!! The standard TD are fine if your seat is set at its lowest level though. The HSE seats are quite superb. Mine has an upgraded leather too. But ... sheepskins beat any leather IMO. TD with sheepskins and set low - if your tall enough, likely an excellent seat.

OK some other stuff had appeal ...

But there is not much difference in torque between the SD and the TD 3 litre diesels. The main difference is KW, which means a top speed issue. And who can use top speed in Australia? With a big van (my AOR van weighs 2.4 tonne) overtaking does uses KW, but that's the only time its a significant benefit IMO.

The 8 speed is a big benefit. A longevity thing, better fuel use too. But mainly its a very reliable box.

E-Diffs aren't necessary in a 3 litre IMO - the bigger brakes allow the equivalent of front and rear lockers, and you can turn. IF you want off road capability, spend the money on the 18" wheels and get the right tyres. That's where the grip comes from and you'll get better life out of tougher tyres, and less chance of a puncture.

Extra fuel tanks - my van has 80 litres of jerry, and can put another 40 in the front carrier - and no issues with things growing in the second fuel tank - a real issue if you are not using the 2nd tank all the time. You can put 70 litres easily (or maybe its 50 odd) on the roof too ... not sure how legal that is, but people do do that ...

Good luck - I'm a Toyota guy, still have a 1997 Prado I bought new - but the Disco is incredible, I love it.

[Bytemrk]

Laurie,

As said before, once you settle on a list you will need to be prepared to move quite fast as the good ones don't seem to hang around long. I flew to Sydney to test drive mine and was less than 36 hours between first spotting it and owning it.

I think the larger screen and reversing camera is high on the list (Something I wouldn't have said before buying mine.)

The eDiff is a very nice option - if it was available, I'd grab it.... but I would not let it stop you buying an otherwise good car. I don't tow often, but the vehicle is regularly drive off road and so far the lack of eDiff has certainly not stopped me ever.

Personally one of the must haves if I was buying again tomorrow is the Xenon headlights so much better than the halogens in my opinion.

Mine does not have navigation either - but frankly you can get far better navigation for less than $20 on your phone so no great loss.

As well as the features - I'd be focusing very strongly on service history - has everything been done? - who by? Has the Transmission been serviced and pan changed?.... if not - plan to do it.

Good luck finding the right one for you. [smilebigeye]

[Bytemrk]

. You can put 70 litres easily (or maybe its 50 odd) on the roof too ... not sure how legal that is, but people do do that ...



:thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

I'd strongly advise against that....I think you will find the manual rates the roof load at 75Kg...... that includes the weight of the roof rack.... so you can't legally carry 50 Litres of fuel on your roof..

Besides that - most 4WD's that lay over for a sleep - do so because the centre of gravity moved outside the wheelbase - best way I know to achieve that is put heavy things up high.. like on your roof rack.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/1001.jpg


Yes people do it...... but people do a lot of stupid things and some even get away with it too.

[veebs]

Laurie,
I think the larger screen and reversing camera is high on the list (Something I wouldn't have said before buying mine.)


My wife thought I was such a nerd/geek for demanding this - but she can't imagine life without it now!

[Strop]

Hey Port Melbourne, seats. Wow. I am 186cm (6 2.5). Wife is much shorter. I was just thinking that with reach and tilt adjustments, together with seat adjustments all would be fine. Didn't think enough about the wife 5' 2.5". I did see one review from the USA that said it was hard to see the instrumentation if you were tall. Something I will have to check during a test drive. Thanks for fuel perspective.

Byrtmrk, yes camera very high on list. I had adaptive headlights on my nice to have list. Got them on my current car.

I have identified a few places to get a vehicle inspected on purchase.

All the best

Laurie

[ATH]

I see others have agreed with me re the wide screen as an essential for the future. I've a friend bought an SE without it and the dash looks odd after seeing mine. But he did get an E.diff .... something many consider not essential.
Talking to my younger bro he reckons I should have travelled to Sidney ([wink11]) for our new D4....... he reckons stealers away from your home town are always better to deal with,
But then he's a very very high spec. buyer who loves sleeping under the stars.... as long as there's 6 of them! [bigsad]
Good luck with your purchase.
AlanH.

[GregMilner]

Hi Laurie, hope this helps.

We sold our much-loved and very low kilometre 2012 L322 Vogue in February for a variety of reasons, none of which involved reliability, comfort - superb - or touring ability. We just wanted something that was a bit more versatile (seating options, after-market accessories etc). I spent three months searching Australia for my 'ideal' D4.

It had to be white. They look awesome in white. We preferred a light interior too. I wanted a reversing camera that could see the tow bar, and the bigger screen that goes with it. (The L322's reversing camera couldn't see the tow bar, so I had to add an after-market wireless jobbie from Jaycar.) With the bride and I occasionally swapping cars, memory seats would be nice, but not a deal breaker. I certainly didn't want 20 inch wheels and low profile tyres (as had the L322 until I put higher profile LT Pirelli Scorpions on it last year.)

It had to be the 8 speed ZF gearbox (same as in the L322, a tour de force). I also wanted the higher rated 3.0 litre, having enjoyed that motor in our previous car, a 2010 RRS. After advice on this forum, I was happy to pass on the E-diff, considering that 90% of our touring is either on bitumen or made dirt, like the Gibb, Mitchell Falls etc. We don't make a habit of rock hopping, and in WA, there isn't much muddy high country.

I wanted a reasonably new one, with at least a couple of years of warranty. But I didn't want to pay silly money for a new HSE.

So the search began. With the new model on the horizon, there were very few fitting my specs, and certainly not in WA. Those that were available here - e.g. a white 2016 D4 SE at Barbagallos with 14,000km on the clock and dark interior, asking $114,000 drive away? Give me a break.

Then Alto Land Rover in Sydney advertised three white demo D4 SEs, all with about 7,000km and all for about $82K plus on roads. No, they didn't have the light interior, or memory seats, but they did have reversing cameras, air con in the second row, and a couple of other minor things. I offered them $80K and they threw in transport to Perth. Happy days.

Don't care about LR's expensive sat nav option. It's a pretty clunky system anyway, and I've bought the latest Hema navigator which is far better, for both on and off road.

I'm adding a long range rank, rear wheel carrier and snorkel tomorrow, and LT tyres, plus I've spent a couple of thousand having various electric stuff fitted for towing our camper trailer, a UHF radio and uprated 12v outlets in the cargo area. So all in all, we're happy with the result. And the D4 is by far the best all-round, comfortable, most versatile tourer and family hauler you can buy.

So that's our story. Good luck in your search Laurie.

[letherm]

Hey Port Melbourne, seats. Wow. I am 186cm (6 2.5). Wife is much shorter. I was just thinking that with reach and tilt adjustments, together with seat adjustments all would be fine. Didn't think enough about the wife 5' 2.5". I did see one review from the USA that said it was hard to see the instrumentation if you were tall. Something I will have to check during a test drive. Thanks for fuel perspective.



I'm the same height as you and have no problems. I have a 2013 HSE. Agree with the comments about the satnav, not worth worrying about other than it's nice to have it in the dash. It does the job well enough but after market ones like Tomtom, Navman etc or even Google maps on you phone are better and updates do not cost a fortune like they do for the LR one.

Martin

[Strop]

3 months looking. Wow.

I am hoping there is a rush of cars onto the secondhand market with the release of the new discovery. Yes I know - pigs might fly but you can be hopeful.

I think the 8 speed would be fantastic but think I will have to settle for a 6 speed box.

[Bytemrk]

3 months looking. Wow. .

I looked for about that long before finding mine nearly 3 years ago[wink11]

[l00kin4]

Hey Port Melbourne, seats. Wow. I am 186cm (6 2.5). Wife is much shorter. I was just thinking that with reach and tilt adjustments, together with seat adjustments all would be fine. Didn't think enough about the wife 5' 2.5". I did see one review from the USA that said it was hard to see the instrumentation if you were tall. Something I will have to check during a test drive. Thanks for fuel perspective.

Byrtmrk, yes camera very high on list. I had adaptive headlights on my nice to have list. Got them on my current car.

I have identified a few places to get a vehicle inspected on purchase.

All the best

Laurie

My wife is 5' 1" and has no problem with the seat height, reach etc. All fine.

I wanted a SD just 'cos I liked the idea of a bit more grunt - nothing much more rational than that I'm afraid - and ended up stretching to a late model used (for 6 months and ~23k) MY14 SDV6 SE - without reversing camera or rear air.

With help from this forum (Chris cjc_td5 in particular) I retrofitted the reversing camera but it is a bit of an exercise. No e-diff either and have done plenty off road with no worries.

I have 3 kids so the only thing I regret not waiting for is the rear air. Good luck with it - you'll end up with a brilliant vehicle.

David

[iannicki]

We have, from new, a MY12 TDV6 (ie, 2.7 l), 5 seats only. Decided against specifying the rear aircon. Have had plenty of hot days. Never had an issue up front or passengers complaining in the 'middle row' (which is the back row in my car!), noting there are 2 vents in the back of the centre console. So, for us, glad we saved the money. Spent it on the rear e-diff instead :-)

[Russrobe]

:thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

I'd strongly advise against that....I think you will find the manual rates the roof load at 75Kg...... that includes the weight of the roof rack.... so you can't legally carry 50 Litres of fuel on your roof..

Besides that - most 4WD's that lay over for a sleep - do so because the centre of gravity moved outside the wheelbase - best way I know to achieve that is put heavy things up high.. like on your roof rack.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/1001.jpg


Yes people do it...... but people do a lot of stupid things and some even get away with it too.
Not fuel, but the only way we can possibly fit everything is to put 80kgs of items (2nd spare, tent and gas bottle) on our roof rack.

My thinking is if i add 80kg to roof sure it's not ideal but I'm also adding 500kg+ much lower down in the boot, foot wells and rear seats...

Back to op though, try get the bigger screen and test out the captains chairs in the HSE. Really miss the ones our D3 had.

Cubby fridge is convenient too.

Nothing wrong with an optioned up TDV6. The motor is more than sufficient.

[Melbourne Park]

My wife is 5' 1" and has no problem with the seat height, reach etc. All fine.

I wanted a SD just 'cos I liked the idea of a bit more grunt - nothing much more rational than that I'm afraid - and ended up stretching to a late model used (for 6 months and ~23k) MY14 SDV6 SE - without reversing camera or rear air.

With help from this forum (Chris cjc_td5 in particular) I retrofitted the reversing camera but it is a bit of an exercise. No e-diff either and have done plenty off road with no worries.

I have 3 kids so the only thing I regret not waiting for is the rear air. Good luck with it - you'll end up with a brilliant vehicle.

David

The issue for me with the seats, is similar to an experience my wife and I had with wanting a new WRX about maybe 15 years ago - and that was if my wife raised the driver's seat off the lowest position, the seat's front would not follow the backrest upwards to the same extent. This resulted as you raised the seat, you lost lower back support. Quite quickly actually. A friend in Brisbane had exactly the same experience with the same WRX - and found the lack of lower back support appalling. And he is about 6'1. Both my wife and he bought E46 BMWs - and neither knew they had gone through the same buying experience. They both looked at new WRXs, and bought used (slightly in my wife's case) E46s.

Subaru had dropped an adjustable front height - it was available on the ST - but the ST was a manual. My wife drove in the city, and the manual was therefor out. Plus the ST was the older series car (although actually it seemed at the time to be collectable). Turned out thought that WRXs typically have engine issues if you push or warm them up (according to a friend who knows). Subaru checked on getting parts from previous WRX seats - the cost for a raisable front seat adjustment, was $5,000!! The same price as a pair of Recaros were back then.

And the same thing happened with the TD seats. If the seat is on the floor, and the seat back from vertical, the seats were fine. But if you raise them just a little, then, the back of the seat goes up lets say 1", but the front goes up lets say 1/4" - the seat leans sort of more forward, and you loose all the lower back support.

Everyone is different too - and when I was young, I had an ex rally car, with crap seats. They did not bother me - I was young and tough. No longer!

I also think a decent arm rest is a safer thing ... the English have a tradition of excellent moveable arm rests. The SE ones are as good as Roll's Royce's (the real Rolls made in Derby). If doing long distances. I drove in three days to Alice Springs from Melbourne, with the trailer/van behind me, alone (my wife flew up) and over long boring drives, some of the trick things like an arm rest, are a good idea. Even the fancy radio / hard disk was handy. But then, an iPhone etc via USB can achieve the same thing, with some effort. Such things ... really don't matter. But lack of support in my back and my wife's - its just not acceptable.

[Strop]

I'm with you on that one.

Put to the wife selling her car to buy a newer Disco - not agreed to - yet.

[Melbourne Park]

:thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

I'd strongly advise against that....I think you will find the manual rates the roof load at 75Kg...... that includes the weight of the roof rack.... so you can't legally carry 50 Litres of fuel on your roof..

Besides that - most 4WD's that lay over for a sleep - do so because the centre of gravity moved outside the wheelbase - best way I know to achieve that is put heavy things up high.. like on your roof rack.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/1001.jpg


Yes people do it...... but people do a lot of stupid things and some even get away with it too.

Well, 50kg of light diesel weighs I think a bit under .85kg per litres, so that's I think under 43kg for the diesel ... an alloy roof rack and a light tank, its quite possible to be legal. I know though with Caravans and trailers, you are not allowed (I think) to carry petroleum on the rear of the van ... but diesel is legal. Not sure about the roof though - I think it is.

As far as Centre of Gravity, that is why Land Rover don't allow us to travel at over 50KMH in high mode ... the C of G becomes much worse ... and at speed, so do the sideways "G" forces. But I think, lots of people do stupid things. I intend to get LLAMS myself, because I want to avoid bottoming on hidden culverts etc... with a heavy trailer behind me, I am not pushing the C of G at all. But rising the vehicle is like adding weight onto the roof.

I am not sure, if the weight limit on the roof, is due to the roof strength, or the safety testing for Moose Test extreme left full lock / right full lock / left full lock / heavy braking in-between etc at high speeds ... I suspect its the IMO irrelevant safety tests that have imposed the ride height at over 50 KMH, and the 75kg roof weight. So - it may not actually be a safety issue in the hands of considered drivers. Our insurance companies might disagree though ... and going sideways across a steep hill - we should all avoid that.

[Bytemrk]

I get your calculations (even if they are a little out ... specific gravity or diesel is between 0.82 and 0.95 and the containers weigh something :angel:) but overall you are right it's touch and go and the way it's driven makes a massive difference....

But the point still stands that unnecessary weight up there is asking for trouble and as a general rule, a bad thing.... that's why I chose a long range tank..... which I make sure gets used regularly so it doesn't "grow things"

So many choices and opinions.... not easy for the OP to decide what's right for him.....

Strop, once you work out the options that are right for you... and start on the accessory round about......my other advice is be wary of weight..... these things get very heavy very fast .[wink11]

[l00kin4]

We have, from new, a MY12 TDV6 (ie, 2.7 l), 5 seats only. Decided against specifying the rear aircon. Have had plenty of hot days. Never had an issue up front or passengers complaining in the 'middle row' (which is the back row in my car!), noting there are 2 vents in the back of the centre console. So, for us, glad we saved the money. Spent it on the rear e-diff instead :-)

That's a good point. We don't use 3rd row very often so that's no worries - it does cool down reasonably quickly anyway. With the vents in the back of the centre console the complaint is actually the opposite of what you'd expect - it's not that passengers are too hot (the temperature is fine, the air con works well) but that the person sitting in the middle position behind the console has their knees/shins frozen! :) The vents being up in the roof remove that issue.

David

[Briar]

So, having owned, driven and used a Discovery - if you were given a blank cheque to buy a second hand Discovery 4 or even a new one - What model would you buy and what accessories would you look for if the only proviso was that you had to live with it for the next 10 years. I am not talking here about after market accessories there is much discussion in various threads about that. Just straight from the factory options.

Laurie

Laurie
I would (if I had to) get exactly what I got the first time. D4 SDV6 SE. 8 speed. Seven seats come in handy occasionally. I'd get the Meridion Sound system (Tech Pack but skipped navigation) to get the reversing camera and 7 inch screen. Bi-Xenons and 19 inch wheels. I wanted this motor for towing the van and have not been disappointed. E-Diff would have been ok but no probs without it.

Very happy with package. I would have happily lived with the TDV6 but couldn't justify the extra for the HSE.

Trevor

[Strop]

Feel like a teenager - changing my mind all the time. Have a list change it, change it. Sitting down and reviewing it again. Perhaps a HSE is the easy way to go (definitely second hand). It has the important options I want as standard. Perhaps a bit more saving. Though, impatience is a bit......

[letherm]

Feel like a teenager - changing my mind all the time. Have a list change it, change it. Sitting down and reviewing it again. Perhaps a HSE is the easy way to go (definitely second hand). It has the important options I want as standard. Perhaps a bit more saving. Though, impatience is a bit......

When I bought mine in 2013 I started out looking for the SE. Ended up with the HSE. The deal I was offered was too good to pass up at the time - right place, right time - EOY factory bonus, right time of month for the salesman to get bonus from added sales and I took what was available rather than order one. I was looking for a demo or low km car but I got a new HSE with extra "fruit" that already had what I wanted if I had optioned the SE up for pretty much the same price. Other dealers couldn't come close price wise. SWMBO insisted on rear camera and rear air con and I wanted the Tech Pack. The HSE covered the bases plus more. My advice would be to keep up to date with what's out there price wise so that you know whether you are getting a good deal and be open to making a decision quickly. I was looking at all of the internet available sites daily for about 6 months before I took the plunge but I knew that the deal was excellent. I simply told that salesman that he had one shot at a price as I wasn't local and he said I was just going to use him. My comment was that if his price was good enough he'd get the sale and he did.

Martin

[GregMilner]

Agree with Martin. If you find roughly what you want, at a good price, be prepared to jump on it there and then. They sell quickly if the price is right.

[Melbourne Park]

I get your calculations (even if they are a little out ... specific gravity or diesel is between 0.82 and 0.95 and the containers weigh something :angel:) but overall you are right it's touch and go and the way it's driven makes a massive difference....

But the point still stands that unnecessary weight up there is asking for trouble and as a general rule, a bad thing.... that's why I chose a long range tank..... which I make sure gets used regularly so it doesn't "grow things"

So many choices and opinions.... not easy for the OP to decide what's right for him.....

Strop, once you work out the options that are right for you... and start on the accessory round about......my other advice is be wary of weight..... these things get very heavy very fast .[wink11]

Actually weight is certainly a huge issue IMO. For myself, I have wondered about insurance if I had a crash, with a costly van behind me, and the insurance company comes along, and calculates the weight, and then declares its illegal, so I've got no insurance.

I worked out the weight of a tyre carrier on the back, an extra fuel tank, a fridge in the back, and a van on the back ... and I think just those (with 250kg on the rear tow bar and currently my LR tow bar is quite close to the rear axel unlike a Mitch Hitch) and the rear axle weight goes over the limit of the rear axle very easily with that setup. And if you put a steel bull bar on the front some weight comes off the rear axle - but then you start approaching the limit of the vehicle. Then add 75 kg on the roof and you're over for sure, two people in the car, some other gear like a second battery, a tool kit, a better jack, a chain saw maybe and some clothes and food - from the calculations I did a couple of years ago.

Being a Toyota guy, I investigated 200 series vehicles - and they were worse. Accept they are easy to increase the load carrying capability. That cannot be done in Australia with the D4. And the ultimate issue for all vehicles is if their load carrying capacity can be increased, is the axle capacity. I even found it difficult to find the axle capacity of the D4 ... I think I did eventually, and have it on a spreadsheet I used when choosing between a 200 and the Disco. Glad I got the Disco though - ignoring its superiority driving in the city, when towing, its steering is so darn accurate, its just a piece of cake to drive even with over two tonne behind me. The steering and planted front end of the Disco is pure gold IMO. Also unlike a 200, you don't have to spend $5k on doing the suspension. But then - you should spend on the 18" wheels IMO.

I've also thought that while a bull bar is cool, and prevents minor damage, I am not so sure if I hit something considerable, whether its going to stop a major repair anyway. I thought with my 1997 Prado (in 1997) an alloy bumper would add safety - I think it did - but then, my '97 Prado does not have air bags. I risked electric windows (back then many thought them dangerous in deep water - which they are).

The weight is a big issue, and I feel a bit more comfortable carrying extra fuel on my van (which can carry as it is 80 litres). And if I sell my D4 (unlikely though because I prefer a chassis to tow) it will be easier to sell without a wheel carrier, and fuel tank underneath, and a bull bar up front. I do love the bull bars for looks though ... but so far, ARB have not got the front parkers to work!!! I do love the front parkers in city parking!!!!

Working out the weight issues is something everyone should do that wants to add lots of off road gear to a Disco.

[Strop]

Alright then, the inspection process. I have in mind a few places I could take a car for inspection either pre or post purchase. What is it you should look for when you are doing an inspection.

I suppose looking under the car for damage and to see if it has been used off road. It looks like oil leaks would be hard to spot. A drive to see if the gearbox is ok?

What advice do you have for a novice 4WD person?

Laurie

[GregMilner]

Laurie take it to a recognised LR specialist and pay them to do a complete check of everything mechanical and electrical, with a written report on any and every fault, including approx cost of fixing. If the car is less than 3 years old, you should be able to claim warranty on most things, apart from wear and tear items. Gearbox is particularly important, if it's been used for towing and/or kms are up towards 80,000kms when the box would be due for a complete flush. Control arm bushes might need replacing by then too.

[letherm]

What advice do you have for a novice 4WD person?



After buying it do a 4WD course, preferably with a Land Rover person running it. The GOE off road companion book is recommended. Sold by Gordon on this forum - GGHAGGIS. Here's a link to his site.

Green Oval Experience Land Rover training, Range Rover modifcation (http://www.greenovalexperience.com/online-shop)


Martin

[Strop]

Hate it when you make an offer on a car and it comes up sold on CarSales as sold and it's not you.......

[GregMilner]

What was the deal Laurie?

[Strop]

Don't know what it sold for but a 2013 HSE 81,000k. Asking $66. I obviously offered less. $hit happens.

[LandyAndy]

Don't know what it sold for but a 2013 HSE 81,000k. Asking $66. I obviously offered less. $hit happens.

Hang on a bit longer.
The D4 should be a bit cheaper once the D5 is released.
Andrew

[Strop]

Said that to the wife tonight. I would think that there would be a lot of the City 4WD set who will update. The interesting part of today was that I looked at brand new cars (first time) not to buy - just look. What I saw was not 1 HSE or SE that had light coloured upholstery (read beige not ebony) - my wife's only request. Only a few TD's met the criteria.

Anyway, I will continue to watch.

[LandyAndy]

Said that to the wife tonight. I would think that there would be a lot of the City 4WD set who will update. The interesting part of today was that I looked at brand new cars (first time) not to buy - just look. What I saw was not 1 HSE or SE that had light coloured upholstery (read beige not ebony) - my wife's only request. Only a few TD's met the criteria.

Anyway, I will continue to watch.

I have a Ford Territory Ghia with black leather,you cant sit on the seats when its been parked in the sun.My 2014 TDV6 also has black leather,it doesn't get very hot at all.
The difference???? Land Rover have very good UV treatment of the glass,Ford don't.Make sure the front screen is genuine if you buy secondhand.
Andrew

[GregMilner]

Hang on a bit longer.
The D4 should be a bit cheaper once the D5 is released.
Andrew

The jury's out on that Andrew. My guess is it'll be years before ARB and the like have engineered a complete suite of after-market touring and off-road add-ons for the D5. So late model D4s may well be in high demand for some time because of the well-established inventory of stuff already designed for it.

[rar110]

It's pretty rare in Brisbane to see a D4 with a bar or wheel carrier. So most original owners don't buy them.

[GregMilner]

Said that to the wife tonight. I would think that there would be a lot of the City 4WD set who will update. The interesting part of today was that I looked at brand new cars (first time) not to buy - just look. What I saw was not 1 HSE or SE that had light coloured upholstery (read beige not ebony) - my wife's only request. Only a few TD's met the criteria.

Anyway, I will continue to watch.

My first LR, a new 2010 RRS, had the beige interior and we loved it, not the least because it doesn't absorb the heat so much, and looks much more luxurious. But finding one like that in my subsequent search for a newish L322 proved impossible, so too our new D4. But in the end it's a small compromise.

[Strop]

But in the end it's a small compromise.

Not from my wife's, sorry my position :-)

Laurie

[DiscoMick]

Just buy her a plush light colored sheepskin seat cover and she'll be sweet. And she can take it along when you change vehicles. My wife's is on her third vehicle.

[Chops]

Gday Laurie,
We have an HSE that has been set up for touring, however, we were initially after an SE.
Must haves for us was an e-diff, purely because there will be many a time we will be on our own. The e-diff has a stronger construction base, so for us, we'll be towing a fair bit, I like the thought of a heavier duty diff as well. As this was the last, or second last "Discovery" to come into the country with an e-diff, we opted for the HSE. When we ordered ours, there were no choices other than what was already on order, and designated for Aus. As they had already been specked up by dealers, we could only exclude a couple of things from the build, and change the inside outside colours.
Being the HSE, it has memory seats 💺 but no heated seats. I wanted the Windsor Leather, which is softer and possibly a touch more comfy,, but the mrs said no to the extra 10k,,,, 😂 now she has no heated seats 😜

I cant ant really think of anything on the car that I'd probably change, and other than the better leather, I'm not sure if I'd add anything else. But having said that, I'm still learning about the car and what it can do.
As a car for long trips, this thing is awesomely comfortable,,, I'm happy to compare it to my two Jags, even if they were 82/84 models,,, for touring comfort, nothing compares. Even dads old LTD with the very soft leather it had which was just gorgeous too, the disco wins over.

As as far as cameras go, I'm still working them out. I'm minus my front ones at present whilst OL organise a bar which suits them. I think if your in a tight spot, having the mirror cams could be very beneficial, especially on the left,,, a bit hard to poke your head through the passengers window to check something.

[rar110]

Light interior is very nice and easy to look after. This is mine after nearly 10 years and with kids https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/937.jpg

[Strop]

I really like the light interior it just seems to make a car look bigger, roomier and more luxurious.

Chops, you will have everyone looking to buy a left hand mirror to fit into their system. I can see the potential use of the cameras when by yourself. Is on the list.

[DiscoJeffster]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/935.jpg

I understand the need for light leather. I love mine.

[shanegtr]

I love the look of the light coloured leather, but with young 4 kids I dont think I'd like the look of it after they where done[bigsmile]

[DiscoJeffster]

I love the look of the light coloured leather, but with young 4 kids I dont think I'd like the look of it after they where done[bigsmile]

Three young kids and no worries. I clean the leather once a year and every 6 months condition it. Yes it does get dirty, but with good leather care, it comes back to new each time. Don't be afraid [emoji1]

[shanegtr]

I'd never end up looking after it properly is my issue. And I seen what my kids managed to do to our old leather couch (that was perfect before kids)

[rar110]

I give mine a wipe over every 2-4 weeks with cheap baby wipes. The seats are very durable.

[LandyAndy]

I give mine a wipe over every 2-4 weeks with cheap baby wipes. They're very durable.

Next time you are in Coles,have a look for Oakwood leather wipes,they are very good.
Andrew

[Strop]

Well I have jumped in the deep end. Hope the right decision but time will tell. A bit more than I wanted but .... Hope to pick it Monday, unless they give it to someone else over the weekend. Plane booked.

2012 SDV6 SE MY12.. 125,000 Km. Ended up with ebony interior rather than almond but buying second hand cars is all about compromise. Some grey car seat covers as suggested should lighten it and hopefully keep the wife happier. Had it inspected by Graeme Cooper who found a whole host of things to fix - age related, but gave it the thumbs up. A small report that says $$$$$ need to be spent. There goes the reduced price I negotiated.

Anyway one of the things that need replacing straight away are the types. 18" rims were in the plan but now going on the back burner and will probably be the last mod done on a long future list of things I have in my head. Not sure where this will take me as a 1st time 4WD owner. Hoping it won't end up as a great buy for someone else.

Car due for a minor service so booked in to get the mechanical things fixed at the same time. Taking advantage of having access to an experienced Land Rover service center.

Back to the tyres, I am thinking that 5 x Maxxis 255/55/r19 tyres to start with. Hope they will be ok for bitumen because that is where it will be for a little bit.

Anyway thanks for the help.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/379.jpg

[veebs]

Well I have jumped in the deep end. Hope the right decision but time will tell. A bit more than I wanted but .... Hope to pick it Monday, unless they give it to someone else over the weekend. Plane booked.



Looks like a nice ride - congratulations! :) Let us know how you get on!

[Plane Fixer]

I have a set of 19" Maxxis and so far have driven Coffs to Broome and then to Perth. Currently we are on the train to Adelaide and then drive to Coffs
The Maxxis are slightly noisier and harsher, but I am very happy with them. I will be fitting my Toyo Open Country when I get back to improve my fuel consumption and noise as they are a soft quiet sealed road tyre. I have two sets of wheels.

[Strop]

It doesn't feel right. Pick it up, feel happy. Drive 6km. New tyres. Walk around for a couple of hrs. Drive 40km drop it off at Graeme Cooper Automotive. Walk away from it - train to mates place in Gosford. Pick it up Friday. Doesn't feel right. [emoji857][emoji857][emoji857]

[veebs]

Sarcasm is a bit tricky to pick up over the 'net - Do you mean it really doesn't feel right, or just doesn't feel right to walk away from the new toy while the fixes and service are done?

[Strop]

Walking away from the new toy.

Can you imagine being given or buying a new toy and not being able to play with it for 4 days.

I did hear a knock in the front though but that will be gone when I pick it back up. Might be a good thing - start with a spot on mechanical feel. The new Maxis tyres make a bit of noise around town but with only 6km before they went on I don't have much to compare them with. 46km on impressed with the 3 litre motor. My other car, a Citroen C5 has the 2.7litre version with same gearbox. I was expecting good and pleased with the tease so far.

Laurie

[JamesH]

As an owner of a MY12 SE I can tell you that at 46km you have no clue about how much you're going to love that awesome car.

I'm 70k in and I just love it so much. Apart from Defenders I see no point in driving anything else. One downside is I see the cars I dreamt of, Astons, Bentleys, even big Rangies and I yawn, over all that. D4s are the best car on the road. Don't argue now, come back in a year.

[StewG]

Congratulations, Strop. I travelled through the same process that you have. I wanted a comfortable and capable tug for a 2.5 tonne caravan and it came down to Disco 4 versus Land Cruiser 200. Being not flush with cash, so new was out of the question. The decision on balance that the D4 was the better machine for my needs and I managed to find an MY13 SDV6 HSE at roughly half new price. Pure luxury and more gadgets than I've had in a car before... Towing is easy (except for remembering that the van is 3.2 metres high and wider than the car). The torque and power available is phenomenal and the air suspension is more fun than a barrel of monkeys - drop down to access height to impress the passengers. The only downside is the urge to make useful mods and they all cost $$$$$$$$.

[veebs]

One of my favourite party tricks, is the suspension. I drop to access height, reverse under the tow hitch of a trailer, then raise to off-road height, engaging the ball into the hitch.
No winding jockey wheels like a peasant!!