MY15 D4 at 60,000km update

[RobA]

Well after close to 2.5 years we have rolled over 60,000km so after its service yesterday I thought I would share the findings.

As some will know we do a lot of outback travel, towing an offroad camper and reasonably heavily loaded. Our fuel consumption heavy and unloaded has in my view been fantastic and well beyond any LC200 I know. Overall an excellent car and very glad to have made the change from other brands.

So what have we found?

Had the auto trans drained flushed and refilled with a new OE pan as you can't get the metal one for the 8 speeder, darn it. Expensive I know but under warranty is where I wanted the first one done and with all the towing we have done I have noticed an immediate but slight improvement in the way the box works so a sound decision

I noticed after we got back from our last Kimberley trip in Oct 16 that it seemed we were getting a bit of turbo lag but took no notice as nothing obvious. A couple of months back the lag became more of an issue when getting off the lights. Took more right foot than I like to use, box dropped to first and we left a very large black cloud behind us. Most embarrassing to say the least. So the diagnostic result on this issue is RH internal turbo seal is worn and requires replacement. This I am told will be a 2 day job and I am very pleased to say under warranty as well as it should be.

Wheel alignment
As we have the GOE rims on all the time I had the F&R checked for the second time in our ownership with only a marginal change to toe to be made. Says a lot, at least to me, in having your LR dealer do it and I keep hearing horror stories about some tyre stores so wish to keep clear of what could become an expensive problem.

Tyres are D697 and are about 50% worn so we will run them for another year as we are not doing a lot of remote touring and consider replacement in mid 2018 when we have a >5 month trip coming up through Central Australia and WA

Summary
Glad I made the change and quite happy with the ownership experience and support from our local dealer regardless of the aforementioned turbo issue. I know of plenty of other brands with bigger issues. The fact that we did not have to spend a fortune changing suspension and making lots of mods also adds to my confidence in the cars capabilities.

We are about to purchase an AOR Quantum Plus which comes in at 2500kg and around 230kg down ball which is considerably more than our Ultimate had at around 1100kg and 110kg down ball. But we want something of a home away from home for the large amount of time we plan to be on the road

Hope that is informative and useful as I don't see too many ownership updates on the forum

Regards

Rob

[Lukeis]

What's the horror story of a tyre place or non LR workshop doing a wheel alignment? I've got mine booked in tomorrow for a mechanic up the street to install my new lower control arms (which require new alignment). anything I should be aware or concerned about?

[RobA]

What's the horror story of a tyre place or non LR workshop doing a wheel alignment? I've got mine booked in tomorrow for a mechanic up the street to install my new lower control arms (which require new alignment). anything I should be aware or concerned about?

Luke my comment relates to Adelaide no idea of Sydney but if you search the forum you will find a lot of discussion and one or two threads at least on issues with wheel alignments destroying tyres as they have not been done by businesses with the skills and technology to do a Disco properly

Rob

[mr_squiggle]

Thanks for the update, it's great to hear all of the info, good or bad.
Did the turbo issue also result in some engine oil use or didn't you notice?

[BobD]

Interestingly my expensive BFG front tyres started getting destroyed recently and I went to my local BobJane shop to get an alignment done. They refused to do it because they said it requires a steering sensor recalibration that they are not equipped to handle. Never heard of that previously! A shop near Rovertech ended up doing it as recommended by Rovertech and they found that the adjustment bolts had slipped causing my sudden rapid wear. I don't know how that happened but the alignment seems good now.

[l00kin4]

Thanks for that update Rob.
Very informative. My MY14 has also just ticked over 60k and I've been considering the transmission fluid and pan change.
Mine has had a pretty easy life since I've had it, but I bought it 6 months old with 23k on it so I don't know how it was used prior. Could I ask how much that cost ? (or PM if you prefer)
David

[RobA]

Thanks for that update Rob.
Very informative. My MY14 has also just ticked over 60k and I've been considering the transmission fluid and pan change.
Mine has had a pretty easy life since I've had it, but I bought it 6 months old with 23k on it so I don't know how it was used prior. Could I ask how much that cost ? (or PM if you prefer)
David

David take a deep breath. Labour, fluids and a replacement pan and filter (comes as a kit) was a smidge over $2k. Yes I know my man at PCB could have done it for less but this car is still under warranty and I want our service record to include this just in case for the future. It is a big job as they have to lift the engine as I understand it to get the pan out. Included a software check which I demanded to ensure all was correct. As I have said it does feel better but with the turbo problem to be sorted I reckon some of the trans behaviour is linked to that as well

Rob

[RobA]

Thanks for the update, it's great to hear all of the info, good or bad.
Did the turbo issue also result in some engine oil use or didn't you notice?

Squiggle no change to the oil level. It has used less than a litre every 10000km since new. It was only the curtain of black smoke behind me that alerted me to a problem along with the trans behaviour

Rob

[l00kin4]

David take a deep breath. Labour, fluids and a replacement pan and filter (comes as a kit) was a smidge over $2k. Yes I know my man at PCB could have done it for less but this car is still under warranty and I want our service record to include this just in case for the future. It is a big job as they have to lift the engine as I understand it to get the pan out. Included a software check which I demanded to ensure all was correct. As I have said it does feel better but with the turbo problem to be sorted I reckon some of the trans behaviour is linked to that as well

Rob

Thanks Rob. Youch! Maybe I'll put that 2k towards (half the) extended warranty...

David

[mr_squiggle]

David take a deep breath. Labour, fluids and a replacement pan and filter (comes as a kit) was a smidge over $2k. Yes I know my man at PCB could have done it for less but this car is still under warranty and I want our service record to include this just in case for the future. It is a big job as they have to lift the engine as I understand it to get the pan out. Included a software check which I demanded to ensure all was correct. As I have said it does feel better but with the turbo problem to be sorted I reckon some of the trans behaviour is linked to that as well

Rob

Hi Rob, the transmission pan & filter can be done easily without an engine lift to get the pan out, you just need the right tools. Have a look at the post I did in the 8 speed transmission section of AULRO.
I do agree that it's not a cheap exercise though, the parts & fluid (genuine ZF) were about $500 & that was trade.
Not knocking how you did it, just pointing out that it can be done a different way.

[RobA]

Hi Rob, the transmission pan & filter can be done easily without an engine lift to get the pan out, you just need the right tools. Have a look at the post I did in the 8 speed transmission section of AULRO.
I do agree that it's not a cheap exercise though, the parts & fluid (genuine ZF) were about $500 & that was trade.
Not knocking how you did it, just pointing out that it can be done a different way.

Thanks I just quoted what the service guy said. I have read the trans stuff in detail as part of making the decision to get it done so I was well prepared for the cost. In the greater scheme of things it is fine as far as I am concerned. In the first instance this is a OE dealer undertaking the work and within the warranty period. For me that is vital. This becomes a forma (JRA)l record of me being prudent in servicing the car. So when we do need to take the extended warranty I have every right to get annoyed if they take me on as not keeping up with service and maintenance.

If I was outside warranty yes I would have had it done by PCB of course. But the duty cycle of our car is quite high compared to a lot and that has been the case since we started buying 4WD's over 20 years ago. So with that in mind I am always prepared to take a preventative approach to service and maintenance rather than simply following the log book

Given we spend 4-6 months a year on the road, towing and averaging 15,000km off bitumen each time I like to be as prepared as I can be

Rob

[LandyAndy]

David take a deep breath. Labour, fluids and a replacement pan and filter (comes as a kit) was a smidge over $2k. Yes I know my man at PCB could have done it for less but this car is still under warranty and I want our service record to include this just in case for the future. It is a big job as they have to lift the engine as I understand it to get the pan out. Included a software check which I demanded to ensure all was correct. As I have said it does feel better but with the turbo problem to be sorted I reckon some of the trans behaviour is linked to that as well

Rob

Rob.
Was the $2k including the general vehicle service too???
I'm at 42000K,coming up to its 3rd service.Havent done lots of heavy towing yet,5000km max.
Andrew

[LRD414]

I am looking into a simple drain and refill without pan/filter change. Fair bit cheaper and I think an effective balance between cost and proactive maintenance. Plan to do same again but with pan/filter change as well at around 120k. This plan gives relatively fresh fluid at approx 60k intervals but not full flush. From what I've read of 8 speed fluid changes they all seem to be in good condition at least visually when drained.

I've towed a 1.7t (loaded) camper trailer about 20k km and the other 40k not towing.

Scott

[RobA]

Rob.
Was the $2k including the general vehicle service too???
I'm at 42000K,coming up to its 3rd service.Havent done lots of heavy towing yet,5000km max.
Andrew

Andy no it was just for the trans service. My car is under their fleet plan so NC whilst under warranty

Rob

[RobA]

I am looking into a simple drain and refill without pan/filter change. Fair bit cheaper and I think an effective balance between cost and proactive maintenance. Plan to do same again but with pan/filter change as well at around 120k. This plan gives relatively fresh fluid at approx 60k intervals but not full flush. From what I've read of 8 speed fluid changes they all seem to be in good condition at least visually when drained.

I've towed a 1.7t (loaded) camper trailer about 20k km and the other 40k not towing.

Scott

Scott yes it is an interesting space. I have heard widely varying reports on the drain process from it went OK to it was terrible. A mate with an RRS, first version, had a drain done and the thing was worse. It was explained to him due to the chemistry of the fluid mixing even a small amount of old with the new can have negative impacts. This was at a time when you could not get the full kit outside of warranty but things have changed a lot since then. As well his was the old 6speed

About the only other thing we found was that outback road travel destroys the plastic panel protecting the spare. So looking to get Gordon to make me up something metal

Rob

[DiscoMick]

I am looking into a simple drain and refill without pan/filter change. Fair bit cheaper and I think an effective balance between cost and proactive maintenance. Plan to do same again but with pan/filter change as well at around 120k. This plan gives relatively fresh fluid at approx 60k intervals but not full flush. From what I've read of 8 speed fluid changes they all seem to be in good condition at least visually when drained.

I've towed a 1.7t (loaded) camper trailer about 20k km and the other 40k not towing.

Scott
Can I ask what is the recommended replacement schedule for the filter? Personally I wouldn't skimp on changing filters.

[shanegtr]

dont get hung up on the internal filter - most trans pickup filters are only good for around 60 microns at best - which wont stop any of the smaller particales that cause damage. I'm looking at installing an external filter to my D3 6 speed from the cooler line as after 24,000km on the new box the oil has a lot of contamination already (our gearboxes at work on a mine site have cleaner oil).

[LRD414]

Scott yes it is an interesting space. I have heard widely varying reports on the drain process from it went OK to it was terrible. A mate with an RRS, first version, had a drain done and the thing was worse. It was explained to him due to the chemistry of the fluid mixing even a small amount of old with the new can have negative impacts. This was at a time when you could not get the full kit outside of warranty but things have changed a lot since then. As well his was the old 6speed

Rob, I've been closely following the topic on Disco3. There's a few high km 8-speeds over there now. Reading there, it seems that the 8-speed is a better proposition than the 6-speed regarding issues and the process of partial flush via drain/fill has been done by quite a few. It does get tricky sometimes separating 6-speed from 8-speed experiences. I have been quoted $2600 for a double-flush c/w pan & filter change (dealer labour rates & expensive ZF8 fluid even compared to ZF6) so that's pretty much in line with your experience, give or take a few dollars. I don't think there's a right & wrong answer here, just different factors to weigh up.


About the only other thing we found was that outback road travel destroys the plastic panel protecting the spare. So looking to get Gordon to make me up something metal

APT has a transmission protection plate:
APT Transmission Guard | Discovery 3 and 4 (http://aptoffroad.com.au/browse-catalogue/discovery-3-4/product/302-apt-transmission-guard-discovery-3-and-4/category_pathway-36)
Integrates with the sump guard.


Well after close to 2.5 years we have rolled over 60,000km so after its service yesterday I thought I would share the findings.
Apart from the transmission topic, thanks for the report. I'm at about the same time frame and same km's although, less of them offroad. I love the vehicle and am looking to be proactive for long-term retention. And I also have experienced very few problems (touch wood). It's in for an Interim service today and the warranty issues are a minor buzzing from door speaker and the windscreen lower cowl to be replaced (uv damaged plastic that seems to affect all).

I did have the front LCA bushes replaced at 50,000 as warranty without question. I've been getting oil changes at better than half the 26k schedule and have replaced the air filter a couple of extra times during or after long dusty trips. I seem to go through brake pads relatively quickly, having changed the rears once and fronts now pretty low. I put this down to stop/start city driving but also I've been told that towing reduces rear pad life. Wheel alignment has been an issue, including the aligner used by the dealer. I have simply persisted until I found someone that could achieve straight alignment rather than keep going back to someone who didn't get it right. I can put the vehicle in the correct mode myself so it's not that.

So no major issues and many hours of happy travelling, whether away on a trip or around town commuting.

Cheers,
Scott

[RobA]

Scott thanks yep agree on the trans issue. A friend has a D3 and I always get at least a 15% better fuel consumption and sometimes up to 30% when loaded and towing. So yes I reckon the 8 speeder is better there and also a much nicer drive when you back to back test them.

Will follow up on the trans protection plate as the underside has taken some pretty big hits from rocks and with the spare wheel protector destroyed I really need something decent underbody

I am relaxed about the turbo seal issue. It can happen to anything so as long as it is warranty and on my service record I have a recourse if something happens in the future. Or at least I hope so

Certainly have no regrets regarding the ownership experience at all and yes we will be keeping ours for quite a while. I will wait and see what the new Defender looks like before I make a change

Regards

Rob

[LandyAndy]

The 8 speed also looks after itself better.Full lockup in the gears,when I came back from my Xmas camping trip into a heavy head wind with a 2 tonne camper trailer it spent a lot of tome in 6th and 7th,its choice in sport.
Andrew

[RobA]

The 8 speed also looks after itself better.Full lockup in the gears,when I came back from my Xmas camping trip into a heavy head wind with a 2 tonne camper trailer it spent a lot of tome in 6th and 7th,its choice in sport.
Andrew

Andrew a good point. How many LC200 owners who tow have gone to the expensive of fitting a torque converter lock up switch. I know of quite a few and whilst they all say it helps keep things cooler and improve fuel consumption when towing why not have a better transmission in the first place

One more for the D4

Rob

[DiscoMick]

ZF make great auto boxes.

[Garfield]

Hi Guys,

Just for your interest I did a full tour with the Land Rover Club of Victoria of A & B Automatics in Dandenong , Melbourne. A & B Automatics are an authorised ZF dealer and reconditioned of ZF automatics for many of the vehicle manufactures, as well as Land Rover. They actually carry out advanced repairs of ZF auto's for Land Rover dealers as well as supplying fully reconditioned autos with warranty.


Anyway getting to the point, they advised the cost to fully service a D4 auto, including oil, filter, metal pan, examination of old oil and check ( and recalibrate if necessary ) the auto ECU - would cost $900. They recommended under " normal' vehicle use the transmission in D4 should be serviced every 80,000km.

It was an exceptional interesting tour, from how they fully recondition vale bodies to testing ZF autos on a specific " auto trans" dyno for correct performance.

[loanrangie]

ZF make great auto boxes.
Until they die and cost $$$$$$ to repair, this alone scares me off d3/d4's.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Guys,

Just for your interest I did a full tour with the Land Rover Club of Victoria of A & B Automatics in Dandenong , Melbourne. A & B Automatics are an authorised ZF dealer and reconditioned of ZF automatics for many of the vehicle manufactures, as well as Land Rover. They actually carry out advanced repairs of ZF auto's for Land Rover dealers as well as supplying fully reconditioned autos with warranty.


Anyway getting to the point, they advised the cost to fully service a D4 auto, including oil, filter, metal pan, examination of old oil and check ( and recalibrate if necessary ) the auto ECU - would cost $900. They recommended under " normal' vehicle use the transmission in D4 should be serviced every 80,000km.

It was an exceptional interesting tour, from how they fully recondition vale bodies to testing ZF autos on a specific " auto trans" dyno for correct performance.

Was that the 6 speed,as I don't believe there is a metal pan for the 8 speed.
Andrew

[mr_squiggle]

Was that the 6 speed,as I don't believe there is a metal pan for the 8 speed.
Andrew

Correct, there is no metal pan for the 8 speed.

[Bohica]

Until they die and cost $$$$$$ to repair, this alone scares me off d3/d4's.

I fpound some D3 manuals

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/car/landrover/discovery3/manual-transmission/diesel-fueltype/'silo=stock&vertical=car&WT.z_srchsrcx=makemodel&sortby=TopDeal&)