Pulled up by the Coppers

[123rover50]

Last Sunday I was on a dump run 5 PM, had 4 garbage bags in the back of the ute.
Came out of our road just as a Highway patrol was heading back to base.
As I went up the road I saw its brake lights come on in my mirror and thought here we go, they are after me.
The bags had tied necks and there was no loose rubbish to blow out.
Anyway the red and blues came on so I stopped and they asked me to blow in the bag. I was clear, they looked in the cab, studied the seat belts, then said I should have rubber pads on the pedals. I said its an old Land Rover, never had pads.
Next, they said the load should be covered. I explained I was just off to the dump the other side of town and there was nothing to blow out, and It cant fall out due to the sides on the ute. Never the less they booked me.
I am not that familiar with the law regarding covered loads so thought fair enough, cop it.
Yesterday the bill came. $230 odd but the charge was not an uncovered load it was "Person in control of private light combination fails to ensure couplings comply."
Thats got nothing to do with what I was doing.
Do I pay and admit to that charge or contest it?

Keith

[rar110]

Write a letter.

[mick88]

For a minute there I thought you were going to say the cop thought you had hooch or body parts in the bags, or asked you how you were going to get home from the dump! ;)On a serious note, that sounds like a very ambiguous definition of an infringement, and in total contrast to what he "chatted" you about!Have you looked up the Queensland Transport traffic codes or whatever there is that can give you a better explanation of it?Cheers, Mick.

[Sitec]

The way that's worded sounds like you were towing a trailer, and the safety chains or ball hitch were not connected/latched.. I'd be walking into your nearest Police Station, and asking the question. State that you were pulled over and they mentioned the rubbish bags, but that you didn't have a trailer and don't understand the wording and why the fine is so high... Good luck.

[123rover50]

Sorry , I miss typed. Fine is $230.
I thought perhaps they dont have a charge for an uncovered load and used that one as an excuse to get "brownie points" for the day.
Over the page it says.
Option one, Pay the fine in full Note: By paying the fine you are deemed to have accepted liability for the offence.

I think I will give them a phone call as they list a number for misdirected or lost notices.

Keith

[Slunnie]

What did it say on the carbon copy of the ticket you were given at the time? Never the less I doubt you will have to pay for that, but I'd expect you will have to write a letter, not just a phone call.

[rick130]

The little country town I used to live near had everyone with a ute get pinged for uncovered loads.
One poor bugger got stung for a bag of dog food in the tray.
The next week the same copper did her for the tail on the rope she'd used to tie it down being too long.

He was transferred on from that station not too long after that.

As the others have said Keith, I'd be asking the question and follow it up in writing.

[123rover50]

What did it say on the carbon copy of the ticket you were given at the time? Never the less I doubt you will have to pay for that, but I'd expect you will have to write a letter, not just a phone call.

They never gave me a copy of the ticket.
I think you are right, a letter may be better.
Are they supposed to give a copy at the time?
In all my years of driving its my first one so dont know what thay are supposed to do.
Keith

[Slunnie]

They never gave me a copy of the ticket.
I think you are right, a letter may be better.
Are they supposed to give a copy at the time?
In all my years of driving its my first one so dont know what thay are supposed to do.
Keith
I can't speak for anything but NSW, but we get a carbon copy of the infringement notice from the policeman. To dispute it you can then write in, and there is a place on the infringements website to do this. Apart from the ticket sounding like it's wrong, they will also prob let you go because of your good driving history.

[ATH]

I would have thought the rubbish was covered by being in the bag and the bags couldn't blow out of the back of the ute. Sounds like a nit picking bit of policing guaranteed to further minimize the respect many drivers don't have for traffic cops.
Personally I'd be fighting it with everything I've got and making a lot of noise about it.
AlanH.

[Tim_AM]

I think they have charged you under the wrong code:

see on the attached:

https://www.police.qld.gov.au/rti/disclog/2015/Documents/RTI-15193.pdf

"13R(1)(a)" is the code you have been charged under, "Person in control of private light combination fails to ensure couplings comply"

i think it should have been "13Q(1)(a)" "Fail to ensure load on private light vehicle complies with requirements" - either way the charge is still $230

weather you should have been charged in the first place is debatable!

I would contest it, you shouldn't accept a charge that is incorrect, even if the fine is the same, what if you get stopped in the future when towing a trailer 'incorrectly' and they say you've already been charged for this offence, its not going to look good....


Tim

[PhilipA]

My understanding is in NSW anyway you can no longer use ropes to tie down a load, you have to use straps.

Regards Philip A

[rick130]

My understanding is in NSW anyway you can no longer use ropes to tie down a load, you have to use straps.

Regards Philip A

yes,I believe it has to be load rated, or use a net.
And I think the specs on those have changed too.

I think the one I use on the Deefer doesn't comply anymore.

[123rover50]

I can't speak for anything but NSW, but we get a carbon copy of the infringement notice from the policeman. To dispute it you can then write in, and there is a place on the infringements website to do this. Apart from the ticket sounding like it's wrong, they will also prob let you go because of your good driving history.

He did it all on a computer pad thingy, there was no paper pad used.

Keith

[Homestar]

yes,I believe it has to be load rated, or use a net.
And I think the specs on those have changed too.

I think the one I use on the Deefer doesn't comply anymore.

You can get load rated rope - proper Telstra rope is rated.

[rangieman]

You can get load rated rope - proper Telstra rope is rated.
My understanding is if rope is used it has to be labeled as such just like the straps have a compliance label [wink11]

[trout1105]

Maybe the coppers entered the wrong details into their computer, Anyhow as you were not towing a trailer the charge has to be "Bogus" and should be dismissed.

[Don 130]

The rubbish in the bag was 'the load', therefore the load is covered, by the bag. If you cover the bags with a tarp, what covers the tarp?, another tarp?, then what? Ad nauseum.
The law is an ass.
Don.

[Slunnie]

The load doesn't have to be covered, it has to be secured so that it cant come out.

[123rover50]

I have just posted off a letter so will see what happens.

Keith

[Eevo]

Basically, if any vehicle has a load, that load must be secured or covered so that none of the load could be thrown from the vehicle in the event of an accident or fall from the vehicle when in motion.


http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Loads-and-towing/Load-restraint.aspx


Examples and tipsGarden refuse in utes or trailersGarden refuse will generally be light enough to be blown off a ute or trailer by a breeze during transport. As such, the refuse will need to be covered by a tarpaulin (secured so that it does not come off in transit) or netting. If the refuse is loaded above the sides of the ute or trailer, more restraint (straps, netting or rope) will be needed.

[POD]

Doesn't much matter about your load, the key thing is he has made an error and charged you with the wrong offence. It's the reason police are taught to take care with spelling and grammar etc., people guilty of serious offences can walk because of such stupid mistakes. Let it go to court, he will drop the brief when he reads and reviews it rather than look like a fool in the stand.

[LandyAndy]

Unsecured load.
We have just gone national with the laws over here.
You cant use any rope,it has to be a certified rope(identified by flecking in the twist) or proper tie down straps.The load you have needs a certified luggage net.
HOWEVER,that isn't what they pinged you for,perhaps you got the ticket for the next bloke or the one before.$100 is the unsecured load fine,they can be picky and charge you for multiple items.
They were real hot for a whilst,now they seem OK.I regularly get stopped in town for a RBT,quite often they check the tightness of the 3 straps on my ute.2 secure 400lt of diesel,the 3rd a toolbox.
Andrew

[Stuck]

I went through the same thing years ago when I received an incorrectly detailed fine. I sent the fine along with an explanation of why I thought the fine should be waived. About a week later the issuing officer turned up on my doorstep with a revised edition of the original fine and to say he was cranky about it would be an understatement.

[Mick_Marsh]

I went through the same thing years ago when I received an incorrectly detailed fine. I sent the fine along with an explanation of why I thought the fine should be waived. About a week later the issuing officer turned up on my doorstep with a revised edition of the original fine and to say he was cranky about it would be an understatement.
He probably had had his butt reamed.

[DiscoMick]

Yes, you were correct to write a letter saying you weren't towing a trailer and so the charge is wrong.
However, I think you're probably a goner on not having a net over the bags to prevent them from coming out of the back of the ute. I was told the nets also have to have holes too small for the copper to push a hand through, so my old net is now no good. The correct ones cost about $60 from memory at Autobahn.
I recently hit a mattress lying on the M1 in Brisbane at 100 kmh, which could have caused a major crash, so I can understand why they want loads covered.
I couldn't swerve to miss it because of vehicles in the lanes each side of me. If I had been in our Mazda 2 the mattress could have smashed the front end, but fortunately the Defender was high enough to just rock over it.

[LandyAndy]

Yes, you were correct to write a letter saying you weren't towing a trailer and so the charge is wrong.
However, I think you're probably a goner on not having a net over the bags to prevent them from coming out of the back of the ute. I was told the nets also have to have holes too small for the copper to push a hand through, so my old net is now no good. The correct ones cost about $60 from memory at Autobahn.
I recently hit a mattress lying on the M1 in Brisbane at 100 kmh, which could have caused a major crash, so I can understand why they want loads covered.
I couldn't swerve to miss it because of vehicles in the lanes each side of me. If I had been in our Mazda 2 the mattress could have smashed the front end, but fortunately the Defender was high enough to just rock over it.

A bit dearer.
I have one very similar to this for use on a 1 tonne ute or 6x4 trailer.
Large Gladiator Cargo Net - 2.61m x 3.02m | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Large-Gladiator-Cargo-Net-2-61m-x-3-02m-/252824603195?hash=item3add854a3b:g:2yAAAOSwo4pYDs6 P)

Andrew

[1950landy]

Keith in Qld now you have to cover any load in a ute with a cargo net or tarp. [bigsad] I can remember having a load chain laying on the front of the tray of our truck & Qld Transport gave me a worning saying if I was to have an accident the chain could fly off & hit a person walking along the foot parth.[bighmmm]

[carjunkieanon]

I hadn't realised it had become so complicated. Used to held dad tie down the load on an old Bedford truck he'd drive for a school excursion twice a year. Big tarp over the top then he'd walk down one side, I'd walk down the other throwing old static abseiling rope over the top and trying truckie's hitches. He'd then carefully make sure all corners of the tarp were tucked in and tied down so they wouldn't blow open. Personally I reckon you could tip the truck upside down and shake it and nothing would've fallen off. No ratings on the rope though.

So before I can go on holiday with a trailer load with my kids I have to buy all rated straps and netting?

[Eevo]

this is why the law changed


Dash Cam Owners Australia - Load Fail Compilation - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_c86A7jLiA&t=0s)

[Roverlord off road spares]

Yes, you were correct to write a letter saying you weren't towing a trailer and so the charge is wrong.
However, I think you're probably a goner on not having a net over the bags to prevent them from coming out of the back of the ute. I was told the nets also have to have holes too small for the copper to push a hand through, so my old net is now no good. The correct ones cost about $60 from memory at Autobahn.
I recently hit a mattress lying on the M1 in Brisbane at 100 kmh, which could have caused a major crash, so I can understand why they want loads covered.
I couldn't swerve to miss it because of vehicles in the lanes each side of me. If I had been in our Mazda 2 the mattress could have smashed the front end, but fortunately the Defender was high enough to just rock over it.
Pretty scary when something flies from a vehicle ahead, I had a 3600 x 900 structural flooring sheet go airborne in front of me from a trailer in front of me at 100kph. it flew about 4 metres into the air and nearly decapitated a group of bikers in the next lane as it landed, as well as other stuff fall out /off trailers so probably why they have stricter regs now.

[blitz]

With a ute or trailer anything not secured ie can fly out in an accident is classed as an unsecured load. I used to put a tarp over my trailer then rated mesh over that with straps to hold it all down. I've been checked plenty of times and always ok.

so I would say definitely an unsecured load which you would have to cop but that's not what you got pinged for. Be interesting to hear what they say

[V8Ian]

I knew a bloke who tec screwed an old pair of work boots to his ute tray. He got much joy from the cop's expressions when they pulled him over. [biggrin]

[Homestar]

My understanding is if rope is used it has to be labeled as such just like the straps have a compliance label [wink11]

Maybe in your situation as a truck driver? I've never had a Cop tell me I can't use rope to tie a load down - they were pulling people up near the tip around 6 months ago and checking/fining people for unsecured loads but they gave the trailer I was towing a cursory glance and waved me on - only ropes being used to hold everything down. Unless the law has changed, but I haven't seen anyone actually post links to any actual laws about it.

[1950landy]

They can also get you for not securing the loose ends of ropes & straps. Also for twists in straps . Truck drivers would put a twist in straps to stop the straps vibrating , but now theymake sure they are flat.
I think Qld Transport should send a list of changes to the regulations with rego renewals so every one with a registered vehicle knows the new regs. Those that drive unredistered vehicles deserve to get booked.[bighmmm] I know they put the changes in the news paper but for people like me who almost buys a news paper we would never see it.

[austastar]

Hi,
Scarry!
Cheers

[Mick_Marsh]

Honestly, where do you lot get these non existent rules and regulations from?
Lots of unsupported opinion and misinformation in this thread.

Here is what Vicroads advises on the issue:
Securing your load : VicRoads (https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/vehicle-safety/securing-your-load)

How to properly secure your load

Different loads should be transported differently. There are general checks you can do, but the way you carry a load will depend on the load itself.
•Bundle similar items together, in a more stable single unit.
•Use restraints when packing wooden boards; anti-slip matting prevents items from sliding, especially long items.
•Ropes can be difficult to keep tight across your load. When available use webbing straps as they can be more effective and are simple to use.
•Nets and tarpaulins may be used to restrain lighter items.
•Loose sheets of building materials may be restrained by fitting them tightly in trays, and then securing them properly with restraints.
•Make sure heavy items are not loaded on top of lighter items.
•Most headboards and loading racks aren’t strong enough to fully restrain heavy loads.
•Use metal or heavy-duty plastic top corner protector angles to protect cartons.
•High and narrow items such as stacks of smaller cartons usually need more than one restraint.
•Fill spaces and gaps between piles with other items and make sure these are restrained as well.

Vicroads then points to the Load Restraint Guide
http://www.ntc.gov.au/Media/Reports/%28E62BE286-4870-ED95-1914-1A70F3250782%29.pdf

Load Restraint Guide: amendments and reviews
As regulations and technical jargon can be tedious to read, the LRG is published to summarise and inform everyone about the basic safety principles that should be followed to ensure the safe carriage of loads on road vehicles.
The LRG was published in 2004, the Guide has been reformatted and rewritten to make it simpler and easier to understand. The load restraint performance standards in the second edition of the guide remain unchanged from the 1994 first edition.
After advice from Occupational Health and Safety agencies, the NTC would like to recommend that 'chain and dogs' are not used for safety reasons.
Following work by the Load Restraint Working Group, it has been realised that fixed or pivoting lever dogs, (with or without an extension or 'cheater' bar) can cause serious injury to the operator when applying or releasing the chain.

Interesting reading. Oh. Vicroads also notes:
Load Restraint Guide - VicRoads - Victoria | ABLIS (https://ablis.business.gov.au/VIC/pages/d7976efe-6500-4632-a9a0-78545fd1d33b.aspx)

You will be required to comply with this guide if you intend to operate a vehicle carrying a load. The guide provides transport drivers and operators with basic safety principles which should be followed to safely carry loads on road vehicles.
You have a legal responsibility to ensure that the load is secured by appropriate means, and is not at risk of falling from your vehicle.
Compliance with the guide is not compulsory. However, if you are charged with contravening a load restraint requirement, evidence of non-compliance with the performance standards recommended in the guide may be used against you.
Please consult the responsible agency for more information and to ascertain the level of compliance (if any) that may be required.
Yes, it is more written for "Transport Operators" and not so much for people taking their rubbish to the tip.
The relevant section for the OP is probably on page 140 of the guide.

Where a load is carried in an open body without any vertical tie-down, the base of each item of load should be well below the top of the sides or gates. This should prevent the load from becoming dislodged over bumps and vibration caused by rough road surfaces, especially on corners. Standard coaming rails are not high enough to ensure loads do not dislodge under these conditions. Higher sides or gates are required for vehicles with stiff suspensions that give a rough ride.

It goes on to say:

Tarpaulins and nets can be used to provide vertical restraint for light loads contained in open sided bodies to counteract the effect of air flow and rough roads.

What I read there (and this is my interpretation) is if the rubbish bags were in a Landrover tub, it should be OK but if the rubbish bags were on a tray (with short sides) it needed an octopus strap or webbing to contain the load.

[87County]

Good morning Mr Marsh - I take it that this method is not generally approved ?

121770

[101RRS]

Yes but the OP is in QLD not VIC - rules are different in every state and I know that in NSW is it not enough to just have the load covered - it has to be secured with appropriate restraints for the load being carried - sounds similar in QLD.

[87County]

Yes but the OP is in QLD not VIC - rules are different in every state and I know that in NSW is it not enough to just have the load covered - it has to be secured with appropriate restraints for the load being carried - sounds similar in QLD.

In NSW, as far as council ranger standards go, if your load is restrained but not covered you'll be in trouble, on the other hand if is covered and not restrained then that's apparently OK [bighmmm]

Just have a blue tarp and some occy straps

[101RRS]

In NSW, as far as council ranger standards go, if your load is restrained but not covered you'll be in trouble, on the other hand if is covered and not restrained then that's apparently OK [bighmmm]

Just have a blue tarp and some occy straps

I dont know about council rangers but if you had a pallet of bricks in the back unsecured but covered with a blue tarp and occy straps then the NSW cops will get you if they see it. (yes an extreme example)

[Mick_Marsh]

Good morning Mr Marsh - I take it that this method is not generally approved ?

121770
Is that a rated strap with rating tag (showing it's rating and conformity to Australian standards) still attached?
I don't see why not.

Hang on, I think you may need a few more straps at the forward side of the load.

[rangieman]

Good morning Mr Marsh - I take it that this method is not generally approved ?

121770
No it`s not there is still a loose end on the strap:Rolling:

[Mick_Marsh]

Yes but the OP is in QLD not VIC - rules are different in every state and I know that in NSW is it not enough to just have the load covered - it has to be secured with appropriate restraints for the load being carried - sounds similar in QLD.
You'll notice the Vicroads site refers to a "National Transport Commission" document. The WA, SA and NSW sites also refer to this document. Now, although some Queenslanders do not think they are part of this nation, and some interstaters wish they weren't part of this nation, I suspect "Federation" tells another story.
It's a national authority.

[V8Ian]

You'll notice the Vicroads site refers to a "National Transport Commission" document. The WA, SA and NSW sites also refer to this document. Now, although some Queenslanders do not think they are part of this nation, and some interstaters wish they weren't part of this nation, I suspect "Federation" tells another story.
It's a national authority.
Who publish guidelines, not enact laws.

[Mick_Marsh]

Who publish guidelines, not enact laws.
Well, post up the "Laws" then.
Where do we find them?

I've found the "National Road Rules" that merely state that your load be "properly secured". Then it fails to define either "properly" or "secured".

[NavyDiver]

Next, they said the load should be covered. Yesterday the bill came. $230 odd but the charge was not an uncovered load it was "Person in control of private light combination fails to ensure couplings comply."
Thats got nothing to do with what I was doing. Do I pay and admit to that charge or contest it?

Keith

Contest it and ask the judge if the police man can blow into the bag or do a lollypop test perhaps?

[Eevo]

Contest it and ask the judge if the police man can blow into the bag or do a lollypop test perhaps?
it would be a magistrate, not a judge

[DiscoMick]

I think you'll find you are required to pay the fine upfront. If you contest it you may get a refund or reduction.
Centrelink is using the same approach with robo-debt letters. People have to pay it. If they win a challenge they may be adjusted later. Apparently we are automatically guilty and it is up to us to contest it.
Here are the Queensland rules:

Restraining loads (Department of Transport and Main Roads) (http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Loads-and-towing/Load-restraint.aspx)

Webbing and straps are the way to go. Tarps and occy straps are not OK.

[LandyAndy]

Here you go Mick.
A bit more reading for you.
WA road transport changes to come into place in April - ABC Rural - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-18/new-road-rules-for-wa-from-april/6329922)
Andrew

[DiscoMick]

Here you go Mick.
A bit more reading for you.
WA road transport changes to come into place in April - ABC Rural - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-18/new-road-rules-for-wa-from-april/6329922)
Andrew
Sounds like they are applying the national rules and coming into line with other states.
I agree with it. I don't want to ever hit another mattress at 100 kmh.

[Mick_Marsh]

I think you'll find you are required to pay the fine upfront. If you contest it you may get a refund or reduction.
Centrelink is using the same approach with robo-debt letters. People have to pay it. If they win a challenge they may be adjusted later. Apparently we are automatically guilty and it is up to us to contest it.
Here are the Queensland rules:

Restraining loads (Department of Transport and Main Roads) (http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Loads-and-towing/Load-restraint.aspx)

Webbing and straps are the way to go. Tarps and occy straps are not OK.
Again, this linked website advises people use appropriate load restraints then refers the reader to this document:
http://www.ntc.gov.au/Media/Reports/(E62BE286-4870-ED95-1914-1A70F3250782).pdf

[Mick_Marsh]

Here you go Mick.
A bit more reading for you.
WA road transport changes to come into place in April - ABC Rural - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-18/new-road-rules-for-wa-from-april/6329922)
Andrew
I read that. It basically says WA is going to do the same as the rest of Australia.
For a change.

[Saitch]

Restraining loads (Department of Transport and Main Roads) (http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Loads-and-towing/Load-restraint.aspx)

So, if you have something that is heavy, well below the tray/tub lip & won't blow out, you're good as gold as far as I can gather.
It says nothing about a secure load if you roll the vehicle etc. Perhaps it should?
Steve

[LandyAndy]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/622.jpg

This pic comes from the Williams Police Twitter page,a recent charge for insecure load!!!!
Andrew

[BMKal]

I went out and got a load of firewood the other day. The rated strap on the back kept the load intact on the way home without any problems ..................... [bigwhistle]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/690.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/upk02vokt/)

[DiscoMick]

Again, this linked website advises people use appropriate load restraints then refers the reader to this document:
http://www.ntc.gov.au/Media/Reports/(E62BE286-4870-ED95-1914-1A70F3250782).pdf
So does the Queensland document I linked too.

[DiscoMick]

I went out and got a load of firewood the other day. The rated strap on the back kept the load intact on the way home without any problems ..................... [bigwhistle]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/690.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/upk02vokt/)
You would have been booked in my area for not having webbing over the firewood.

I read that. It basically says WA is going to do the same as the rest of Australia.
For a change.

[NavyDiver]

I think you'll find you are required to pay the fine upfront. If you contest it you may get a refund or reduction.
Centrelink is using the same approach with robo-debt letters. People have to pay it. If they win a challenge they may be adjusted later. Apparently we are automatically guilty and it is up to us to contest it.


In Vic you do not pay if your contesting unless of course you lose. Perhaps they trust us more[bigwhistle]

[Dark61]

I've seen this from both sides. Ran into some furniture a while back , couldnt avoid it as there was a geezer on my right - smashed up the front of the Ford a bit - then , coming back from the wood yard last week the tailgate disintergrated ( rotten wood) and i was watching the load slowly slide off the back , stopped ok - and strapped it all up and managed to carry on. Thanks to whoever put up the dashcam stuff as its reminded me to carry the cargo net with me I made out of old trawler netting.
cheers,
d

[DoubleChevron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/622.jpg

This pic comes from the Williams Police Twitter page,a recent charge for insecure load!!!!
Andrew

That is bizarre ... I agree, it's not restrained at all. It needs to be tied front and back to stop it rolling forward or backward. It's tied to stop it lifting (which is ridiculous given the weight of one of those things).

There is nothing to prevent that thing rolling backwards so the trailer will sway, other than any handbrake... or friction from the bucket sitting on the deck.

[Tombie]

In SA we can get done for unsecured load..
Fishing rods and Esky in the boat constitute unsecured - they had a field day around here...

[123rover50]

I have just posted off a letter so will see what happens.

Keith

No response to my letter.
Last week I went to town so visited the cop shop with my letter and the Infringment Notice in hand. asked to see the OIC Road Policing Unit as advised in the notice. The receptionist photocopied the docs and went out the back. Came back after 5 mins or so and said she could not find anyone to help me. She said she would handle it.
Later that week my wife got a phone call from someone who said he was from the Police and wanted to talk to me. I was out but he would not tell my wife what it was about or give a return phone number. Caller ID was blocked. Not heard any more since. Very strange behaviour.

The 28 days will be up next week and I will know if I have to go to court or not I guess.

Keith

[Tombie]

Not strange. Under privacy act they may only speak to you about the matter.

[cafe latte]

It will be interesting to see how this ends. As the cops stuffed it up you should win this one, too late for them to change the charge now.
Good luck
Chris

[rar110]

Give the Admin lady you spoke to a call for an update.

[123rover50]

Finally. Letter in mail yesterday dated 20th April.

Quote
"I acknowledge receipt of your correspondence concerning the issue of the above Infringement Notice, and wish to advise that investigations will be conducted into this matter.

No action need be taken to pay the penalty associated with this Notice, until you receive further advice.

Yours faithfully


A/INSPECTOR"


Well , might be good news[bigsmile1]

Keith

[B.S.F.]

Would be even better if it would say 'unless' instead of until. .W.

[1950landy]

Keith you better watch out they don't start picking on you.[bighmmm]

[123rover50]

Our local cop is not a problem.He understands the situation as I discussed it with him.
Its the Highway Patrol I have to watch out for, they might have their nose out of joint.

K

[rar110]

HP deal in volume. Pickings are far from slim. You are one in a big number of satisfied customers. I seriously doubt they would have you on their radar.

[123rover50]

Well I thought they might have forgotten about it.
No such luck, as an Infringment Notice arrived registered mail yesterday.[bigsad]

They got it right this time.
Offence.
"Fail to ensure load on private motor vehicle complies with requirements"

Information.
"Issue in lieu of TIN Q1002582......... waived due to incorrect pin codes offence short title".

Penalty $243

Better pay it I suppose.

Keith

[Chops]

Might be a good idea,, cause if you don't, you may get a warrant put out on you,,,

Got no idea how I know this [bigwhistle]

[Bigbjorn]

That is bizarre ... I agree, it's not restrained at all. It needs to be tied front and back to stop it rolling forward or backward. It's tied to stop it lifting (which is ridiculous given the weight of one of those things).

There is nothing to prevent that thing rolling backwards so the trailer will sway, other than any handbrake... or friction from the bucket sitting on the deck.

It is hydrostatic drive. It won't roll forward or back. The hydraulic transmission is effectively locked. The little jigger also has a handbrake. It weighs less than 2 tonnes. I would be more concerned about the load capacity of the trailer (and its tyres) that it is on.

[Homestar]

It is hydrostatic drive. It won't roll forward or back. The hydraulic transmission is effectively locked. The little jigger also has a handbrake. It weighs less than 2 tonnes. I would be more concerned about the load capacity of the trailer (and its tyres) that it is on.

So that’s how you’d secure 2 tonnes of metal on a trailer? Think it would stay there during an accident? And you’re a truckie right? Wow...

[RANDLOVER]

I think all bets are off in an accident, load restraint rules are for normal driving, braking, swerving etc, meeting an immovable object not so much.

[4runnernomore]

so if chains and dogs are no longer recommended or allowed what are the big rigs using to secure very heavy loads or difficult restraint loads that cut through load straps .

[ATH]

From the amount of debris I see on the roads around Perth ranging from garden cuttings, ceiling board parts all well smashed to long streams of paint, and many other things used by builders oiks, it appears our finest are only concentrating on their usual favourite, minor speeding, none of the enormous number of other offences being committed every day by thousands of local "drivers".
I've pulled a trailer up and down the freeway many times with just a tarp mostly for weather protection in the unlikely event of rain, held down by nylon rope about 12mm thick and rarely see a copper at all but then that applies to most of the states roads except when they're having a short blitz on the Indian Ocean Drive.
Or around Joondalup police academy where they supposedly are training them how to drive and the performance from many is unbelievably sub standard.
So I don't think here in the west we need spend too much buying rated ropes, shackles or anything else to comply with any rules.
AlanH.

[trout1105]

I have been using ratchet straps for quite a while now simply because they are more convenient and they don't have to be constantly tightened like ropes do.
The only rope I use now is for the anchor or as a temporary clothes line [thumbsupbig]

[pop058]

so if chains and dogs are no longer recommended or allowed what are the big rigs using to secure very heavy loads or difficult restraint loads that cut through load straps .




I think it is "over centre" type dogs that are frowned upon. Ratchet style dogs are still used around here..

[V8Ian]

so if chains and dogs are no longer recommended or allowed what are the big rigs using to secure very heavy loads or difficult restraint loads that cut through load straps .



Duct tape, gaffer tape or 100mph tape for express freight. [wink11]

[DiscoMick]

There's a big push up here in Godzown for the fine mesh nets with inbuilt straps to be used, obviously on lighter loads.
I was looking at a tow truck with a BMW X5 on the back yesterday and he had ratchet straps around all four wheels.

[V8Ian]

I think it is "over centre" type dogs that are frowned upon. Ratchet style dogs are still used around here..
Not illegal but banned from many mines and other namby pamby sites, despite them being the most effective and economical solution in many cases. :bat:

[V8Ian]

There's a big push up here in Godzown for the fine mesh nets with inbuilt straps to be used, obviously on lighter loads.
I was looking at a tow truck with a BMW X5 on the back yesterday and he had ratchet straps around all four wheels.
Probably an RACQ job, it's their requirement for all contractors and employees.

[4runnernomore]

There's a big push up here in Godzown for the fine mesh nets with inbuilt straps to be used, obviously on lighter loads.
I was looking at a tow truck with a BMW X5 on the back yesterday and he had ratchet straps around all four wheels.

Its pretty well standard practise now for the ratchet strap tie downs for securing cars. You can certainly get some pressure on them [bigwhistle], should see the tyres deform. [tonguewink]

[Grumbles]

I was looking at a tow truck with a BMW X5 on the back yesterday and he had ratchet straps around all four wheels.

RACV only put ratchet straps on the front wheels in my part of the world.

[Tombie]

Not illegal but banned from many mines and other namby pamby sites, despite them being the most effective and economical solution in many cases. :bat:

After multiple incorrectly secured loads by “Namby Pamby” truck drivers [emoji56] they went with a system that can’t be easily left too loose [emoji48]

[Homestar]

so if chains and dogs are no longer recommended or allowed what are the big rigs using to secure very heavy loads or difficult restraint loads that cut through load straps .




As mentioned, it's just over centre dogs that are being phased out and are banned on a lot of sites now. Ratchet style chain dogs are available which is what is used exclusively at work now.

[bob10]

The rules , agree or not.

Official rules for securing loads on trucks - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=Official+rules+for+securing+loads+on+truc ks&form=EDGSPH&mkt=en-au&httpsmsn=1&refig=eebd4ffae1184dfa9c5c096357385d57&sp=-1&ghc=1&pq=undefined&sc=0-22&qs=n&sk=&cvid=eebd4ffae1184dfa9c5c096357385d57)

[pop058]

The rules , agree or not.

Official rules for securing loads on trucks - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=Official+rules+for+securing+loads+on+truc ks&form=EDGSPH&mkt=en-au&httpsmsn=1&refig=eebd4ffae1184dfa9c5c096357385d57&sp=-1&ghc=1&pq=undefined&sc=0-22&qs=n&sk=&cvid=eebd4ffae1184dfa9c5c096357385d57)

It maybe just me but I cannot find anything (in your link FOR Qld) that says you can't use "dogs". ??? Not saying it is a good idea just can't find where is says you can't.

[bob10]

It maybe just me but I cannot find anything (in your link FOR Qld) that says you can't use "dogs". ??? Not saying it is a good idea just can't find where is says you can't.

Ummm, did I say you couldn't? And besides, to me a dog has four legs and fleas. Just thought I would add some facts. According to the Guvmint. Cheers.

[Rick1970]

It is hydrostatic drive. It won't roll forward or back. The hydraulic transmission is effectively locked. The little jigger also has a handbrake. It weighs less than 2 tonnes. I would be more concerned about the load capacity of the trailer (and its tyres) that it is on.

Hydro trans can and will let it move.....

My old boss had a much larger Ramrod skidsteer move on a trailer (car trailer and not rated for the weight), ended up half on the drawbar and lifted the front wheels of the F100 tow vehicle clear of the ground.

[donh54]

I think it is "over centre" type dogs that are frowned upon. Ratchet style dogs are still used around here..Over-centre dogs are only frowned upon by university educated dropkicks wit a degree in OHS. They are no longer allowed on some minesites, and some construction sites, but they are not actually illegal. I still prefer them to the PITA screw type ones.

[Homestar]

It maybe just me but I cannot find anything (in your link FOR Qld) that says you can't use "dogs". ??? Not saying it is a good idea just can't find where is says you can't.

You can still legally use over centre dogs - it’s not their holding capacity that is an issue - it’s the safety to the user - too many incidents of drivers hitting themselves in the head with them do a lot of big sites and companies (including ours) has banned them.

[weeds]

Ya don’t see over centre much these days.

[Bigbjorn]

Hydro trans can and will let it move.....

My old boss had a much larger Ramrod skidsteer move on a trailer (car trailer and not rated for the weight), ended up half on the drawbar and lifted the front wheels of the F100 tow vehicle clear of the ground.

Must have had bad internal leaks.

[Mick_Marsh]

Ya don’t see over centre much these days.

I was following a truck tonight loaded with concrete blocks and steal beams. The load was secured with chains and over center dogs.

[trout1105]

I was following a truck tonight loaded with concrete blocks and steal beams. The load was secured with chains and over center dogs.

I would think that using chains on a load like that would be better than straps because the chains won't chafe like the straps would [thumbsupbig]

[Mick_Marsh]

I would think that using chains on a load like that would be better than straps because the chains won't chafe like the straps would [thumbsupbig]
I'd have thought so too but, there are some who are of the opinion they are illegal and loads should be held on with stretchy nets.
Well, that is the impression I get from reading the thread.

[Tombie]

Must have had bad internal leaks.

Depend if it’s floating spool or otherwise, or if the force was sufficient to defeat a bypass.

[Tombie]

I was following a truck tonight loaded with concrete blocks and steal beams. The load was secured with chains and over center dogs.

Did you report them? For the Stolen beams [emoji6]

Our load securing uses ratchet dogs and chain for steel transport.

[Rick1970]

Depend if it’s floating spool or otherwise, or if the force was sufficient to defeat a bypass.

Just average wear and tear for age. Geroler motors tend not to seal up 100% static in anything but new condition, add a bit of leakage over valve plates, through makeup/charge checks and they can creep, ........ without significant effect to operating performance. Some use a proper effective braking system to overcome this, JD's and a few others from memory.

Old (pre hydrostatic) mechanical clutch drive Bobcats could be pushed along on the flat, had to order it with optional park brake if you wanted to work in the hills....