Got NBN at work what a joke

[Hall]

A NBN crew turned up to bring the cable to the factory. Copper coaxial cable that is , tv antenna cable. Not just to the factory but the whole way from exchange. So it is a bit heavier than telephone cable. Bloke doing the install totally agreed it is a joke. Said they are banking on probability to give some users better internet. What this means is there are three speeds available. They are hoping that most users will opt for the lowest speed, thus allowing for some to have higher speeds. If every one opts for the fastest speed it is not going to happen. Which is one of the reasons some users have got slower speeds. To many in there area opting for the higher speeds.
The company I work for has the main factory and a smaller one across the road. The Smaller one is only used for rebuilding of machines. It has been stripped of its offices and lunch room for more room. NBN bloke turned up and asks where is the phone. States that they have on record a working phone. Has not been any phone for some ten years. This revelation caused him to choke on his chips. One of those types that if there system says there is a phone then they can`t be wrong. Well they where wrong this time. Had to actually walk him around the factory to convince him. And this is the mob who is installing our NBN
Cheers Hall

[Slunnie]

This is the NBN that Australia voted for.

[simonmelb]

Totally agree - it's absolute pot luck as to what speed you can end up getting. At our work we were lucky enough to get the real Fibre to the premises NBN which always runs at full speed. And as we have the factory next door we could get 4 x 100Mb connections 😳. We only need 1. While most of the country get barely more than ADSL speeds and sometimes less.

it will be like the harbour bridge painting - will need to be totally re done before the rollout is even completed.

[Homestar]

Keep the Politics out of it please.

[12rrs]

Agree it is lame. Got it at home. Just did a Speedtest.com, max speed 3mb per sec with Optus nbn. was getting 7mb per sec on adsl2+ with Telstra. Great upgrade.

At work we right next to exchange and getting 19-20mb on adsl.

How close you are to the exchange is the most important thing doesn't matter nbn or adsl.

Someone near by to my house mentioned that had a direct optic fibre connection as his house was one of the first in the new estate and is apparently getting in the 100's. Don't know how true this is but I had optic fibre in Sydney back in 2004 and it silly fast. So what cable you are connect with to the pit, and to the exchange affects all this aswell.

[Sitec]

We are just completing a 'new build' house, and I have laid conduit, and two Telstra pits. There is phone points in the house, but I've only done it for saleable value. The NBN runs past the gate, and we won't be connecting. Those that have say its no better than the dial up they had! Sticking to our wireless thing that connects to all phones and IPads etc! Not sure why the NBN was a 'must have' when the wireless works so well, and is also mobile! Ideal for the truck!

[Davehoos]

On ABC north coast radio-A spokesperson for NBN CO had simple answers for those ringing in complaining about customer interaction.

NBN co is a wholesale provider, If you are concerned about the quality of the product delivered to you get another retail provider that will be happy to get your money and make you happy.

[biggrin]

I have top quality line running past my door, goes from my pit at one corner of my house block to the neighbours pit.
so Im chatting with the dish.

[AK83]

This is the NBN that Australia voted for.

Nah!

There's a difference between an NBN we voted for .. and an NBN that some unscrupulous types that control the NBN will build for the country.

If we voted for an NBN with a quality value of 100 points, then we know for sure that we're going to get ripped off with an NBN of a quality value of less than 50 points.
The financial resources that make up the other 50 points were siphoned off long before any shovel hit the ground and probably into directors fees, advisory payments, legal costs, environmental impact statements ... and so forth.

If we wanted an NBN that was as capable as we hoped for, then we had to vote for an NBN that cost twice as much! :D

[JDNSW]

Actually, I have seen pointed out that the fundamental issue with the NBN was there from the very start. This is the requirement that it make money.

In the political situation that it was introduced, it had to be "off-budget", and this meant it had to be designed to make money, resulting in unacceptably high CVC prices, and, indeed, the whole concept of charging by speed. The second fundamental problem is 121 POIs round the country, which is responsible for many of the other problems (this was insisted on by the ACCC), and makes it very hard for small players to get into the RSP business.

[bob10]

This explains a great deal.

The Tragedy of Australia’s National Broadband Network | TelSoc (http://telsoc.org/ajtde/2017-03-v5-n1/a94)

[Slunnie]

Sad thing is when they have to rip it all out and do it properly. Not going fibre was the most stupid decision ever made in what should have been a brilliant system. Sadly it probably cost more to run that copper to your house than glass.

[Mick_Marsh]

Sad thing is when they have to rip it all out and do it properly. Not going fibre was the most stupid decision ever made in what should have been a brilliant system. Sadly it probably cost more to run that copper to your house than glass.
You got fibre?
I have.

It's over rated. Gav's FTTN is ripping along faster than my FTTH. I can post up some worringly slow speeds.
NBNco infrastructure is just fine. It's your ISP who are responsible for the poor service. Something to do with lack of bandwidth.

[JDNSW]

The speed you get depends on the slowest link in the chain between you and the website you are accessing. This may be the NBN infrastructure, but for many people it will be their RSP's infrastructure, and where you are on FTTN, both the copper wire to your house and the wiring in your house.

Congestion and hence slow speeds in peak hours is most common on NBN infrastructure on aggregated POIs and for some of those on wireless. The way NBN implements their "FUP" on satellite causes congestion issues in some circumstances.

Some recent articles suggest that some of the worst "RSP" slowdowns are for those RSPs that use Optus backhaul, with allegations that Optus is selling capacity that does not exist. But you can expect the worst slowdowns to come from RSPs that sell cheap "unlimited plans", as the "cheap" means they are not buying much backhaul per customer, and the "unlimited" means they will have a lot of customers who use a lot of data.

[Eevo]

. It's your ISP who are responsible for the poor service. Something to do with lack of bandwidth.

your ISP have to pay NBN for CVC and NBN charge a ****load for it.

[SBD4]

.... max speed 3mb per sec with Optus nbn. was getting 7mb per sec on adsl2+ with Telstra. Great upgrade.

....How close you are to the exchange is the most important thing doesn't matter nbn or adsl.

You should have stuck with Telstra as they are one of the best performers on the NBN while Optus being the opposite due to congestion.

Distance to Exchange has nothing to do with the performance of NBN, specifically FTTN NBN. It is the distance between the subscriber and the node that affects the maximum speed possible AND, the Retail Service Provider (RSP) eg Optus in your case.If the RSP has not bought enough Connectivity Virtual Circuit (CVC) from NBN then it will not matter whether you are on FTTP or best case FTTN, you will slow down to a crawl when their (RSP not NBN) network gets busy.



Not sure why the NBN was a 'must have' when the wireless works so well, and is also mobile! Ideal for the truck!

Wireless (or rather mobile) is fine for standard internet use but becomes very expensive if you want to usee more data. At this point in time it is also limited in the speeds it can reach but as always, technology is advancing. It will never perform as well or be as cheap as wired internet.


Actually, I have seen pointed out that the fundamental issue with the NBN was there from the very start. This is the requirement that it make money.

In the political situation that it was introduced, it had to be "off-budget", and this meant it had to be designed to make money, resulting in unacceptably high CVC prices, and, indeed, the whole concept of charging by speed. The second fundamental problem is 121 POIs round the country, which is responsible for many of the other problems (this was insisted on by the ACCC), and makes it very hard for small players to get into the RSP business.

Spot on John, I am not opposed to it "having to make money". rather than it making money based on speed it should be based on data. This would mean that all users are able to access at the same speed. Light users pay less heavy users pay more.


You got fibre?
I have.

It's over rated. Gav's FTTN is ripping along faster than my FTTH. I can post up some worringly slow speeds.
NBNco infrastructure is just fine. It's your ISP who are responsible for the poor service. Something to do with lack of bandwidth.

Commiserations Mick, this is a perfect example of CVC restriction at the RSP level affecting the end user experience. No one can say the technology is an issue in your case. Hopefully you can boot your provider and find one that has the capacity to service your needs.

==============================

Anyway, this article is a good one for understanding the issues surrounding CVC:
NBN Congestion Is Forcing ISPs To Build Their Own Private Networks | Gizmodo Australia (https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/04/nbn-congestion-is-forcing-isps-to-build-their-own-private-networks/)

And for those that like pictures, the article contains an excellent GIF of the effect that an inadequately provisioned CVC (by RSP) has on your internet performance.
https://edge.alluremedia.com.au/m/g/2017/04/nbn-congestion.gif

[AllTerr]

I don't know. I have found myself using my 4G connection on my phone over my DSL wifi at home more often than not. Telstra has gotten worse over the last couple years it seems. May just be my router, I don't know. I'm kinda ignorant when it comes to the science and mechanics of internet transmission, but I know what works better and what doesn't. Just don't know why or how....😊

[Milton477]

I am with Optus NBN with fibre to the house & battery backup. We have had it for about 18 months & the 50/25 speed I am supposed to get has gradually dropped off depending on the time of day.
Right now its 45/18 but sometimes gets down to 25/8 or thereabouts. The VOIP phone is crap & I am stuck with the supplied modem because they won't give me the VIOP settings to put into a decent modem. I tried complaining but it seems complaints is up the stairs on the 44th floor in a building in another country.
The plan is unlimited though which suits the kids I suppose although they often complain about download speeds..

[Eevo]

The VOIP phone is crap & I am stuck with the supplied modem because they won't give me the VIOP settings to put into a decent modem
that crap from optus. most ISP's give those details in their support page.

look on whirlpool, i bet the detials are posted there

[SBD4]

I am with Optus NBN with fibre to the house & battery backup. We have had it for about 18 months & the 50/25 speed I am supposed to get has gradually dropped off depending on the time of day.
Right now its 45/18 but sometimes gets down to 25/8 or thereabouts. The VOIP phone is crap & I am stuck with the supplied modem because they won't give me the VIOP settings to put into a decent modem. I tried complaining but it seems complaints is up the stairs on the 44th floor in a building in another country.
The plan is unlimited though which suits the kids I suppose although they often complain about download speeds..

As Eevo said... Whirlpool might help:
Optus NBN - router admin access, using a BYO router with VOIP - Optus Broadband - Whirlpool Forums (https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm't=2401743)

[Hall]

Just done a speed test of our current adsl. 10 mbps down and 1 mbps up. We are with I Primus and there base NBN plan is 12 mbps up and 1 mbps down, so not much better than what we have now. We are lucky here though. We are not a large estate, but have our own exchange . so not that much distance to the exchange. So I really really can`t wait for the NBN to get here.
Cheers Hall

[bob10]

Actually, I have seen pointed out that the fundamental issue with the NBN was there from the very start. This is the requirement that it make money.

In the political situation that it was introduced, it had to be "off-budget", and this meant it had to be designed to make money, resulting in unacceptably high CVC prices, and, indeed, the whole concept of charging by speed. The second fundamental problem is 121 POIs round the country, which is responsible for many of the other problems (this was insisted on by the ACCC), and makes it very hard for small players to get into the RSP business.


Some one with this man's credentials should at least be taken seriously.

Rodney S. Tucker | TelSoc (http://telsoc.org/journal/authors/rodney_s_tucker)

[DiscoMick]

That's an excellent expert report which clearly spells out how backwards looking the decision was to step back from FTTP to FTTN. It was a purely political decision made by incompetent politicians with no real understanding of how the future will become.
FTTN with a copper connection to the premises is a really dumb idea. It should have been fibre to the premises like the rest of the world. Our internet is now slower than Latvia or Kenya, I read.
In the future we taxpayers are going to face a huge bill to fix this unnecessary mess.
It is possible to pay extra for fibre to the premises I believe so I recommend you do it.
My work, which has more than 600 laptops connected, paid to get fibre all the way and has upgraded the internal connections and the improvement was dramatic.
If the NBN is ever offered in my area I'll be paying extra for fibre. Do it once and do it right, as tradies say.
I won't comment further on the politics as we all know who to blame.

[Slunnie]

You got fibre?
I have.

It's over rated. Gav's FTTN is ripping along faster than my FTTH. I can post up some worringly slow speeds.
NBNco infrastructure is just fine. It's your ISP who are responsible for the poor service. Something to do with lack of bandwidth.

The ISP can only offer what the NBN can provide. Your ISP can give you much more than what Gavs can, you're only slower because your ISP wants you slower. They can set you up a hell of a lot faster than Gav if they wish and you pay.

[Mick_Marsh]

The ISP can only offer what the NBN can provide. Your ISP can give you much more than what Gavs can, you're only slower because your ISP wants you slower. They can set you up a hell of a lot faster than Gav if they wish and you pay.
Yes, I am on a 12/1 Mb/s plan. I predominately do foruming and email. I guess the only time I need speed is streaming internet radio, which does not require something as fast as 12/1 Mb/s.
Now, tell me why I need to pay more for extra speed when I often get weekend speeds similar to this:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/689.jpg (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/mick_marsh_AULRO/media/ookla20170120.png.html)

Oh, this is FTTH, that is "fibre to the home".

[Slunnie]

Yes, I am on a 12/1 Mb/s plan. I predominately do foruming and email. I guess the only time I need speed is streaming internet radio, which does not require something as fast as 12/1 Mb/s.
Now, tell me why I need to pay more for extra speed when I often get weekend speeds similar to this:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/689.jpg (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/mick_marsh_AULRO/media/ookla20170120.png.html)

Oh, this is FTTH, that is "fibre to the home".

Thats bad! They need to fix that, definitely worth a complaint ticket.

[Mick_Marsh]

Thats bad! They need to fix that, definitely worth a complaint ticket.
Yep. That was the worst it has been.
By the time I had got on to them, all was fine. I have better things to do than hear a recorded message tell me how important my call is.
My point is, and I think that proves it, is FTTH is not as rosey as people might think. I would have been far happier keeping my old ADSL without the power supply and fibre connection box hanging on my wall.
I don't need any superfast internet.

I will add, at the moment I am using FTTN and it's working fine.

[DeeJay]

We had the NBN installed a month or so ago. Previously cable.
I'll let the screenshots tell the story, 2 are pre NBN & the last is tonight.
NBN is fairly constant, rarely over 5 download now !!!
Can I go back please....................

[Eevo]

its pretty simply guys. if your internet isnt performing to what your paying for, log a fault and get it fixed. it's got nothing to do with nbn vs adsl

[JDNSW]

The thing that annoys those of us who live outside major towns and cities is that with all the arguments about FTTP/FTTN, everyone ignores the fact that we were never going to get FTTanywhere, but wireless if we were lucky and satellite if not.

If you get wireless yo9u are lucky - until the wireless is inevitably overloaded, if you get satellite you get a minimum of 500+ms latency, an absolute maximum data quantity of less than the average annual increase in data use by fixed line users, plus an unreliable service that chews power and stops working when it rains (either at your place or at the other end) and is plagued with disorganisation, software issues, and obfuscation.

John

[Mick_Marsh]

its pretty simply guys. if your internet isnt performing to what your paying for, log a fault and get it fixed. it's got nothing to do with nbn vs adsl
Yes.
However, my fault is intermittent. When it recovers the ISP says "problem fixed".
Then it happens again.

I'll be changing ISP. Actually, I'll be going mobile. Already started the process.

[DiscoMick]

As Slunni says, complain or nothing will happen. Attach a screen shot to your complaint as proof. Keep complaining. Copper connections mean poor service. The only way to get an improvement is if literally everyone complains so much that they are forced to act. That may take a change of government. The more we complain the more chance there is this rubbish copper will be dumped.
Personally I'm hoping my place doesn't get done until after the next elections when I expect the new government to order a return to fibre to the home.

[Mick_Marsh]

As Slunni says, complain or nothing will happen. Attach a screen shot to your complaint as proof. Keep complaining.
You missed reading this part.
However, my fault is intermittent. When it recovers the ISP says "problem fixed".





Copper connections mean poor service.
Not for most.
I will add, at the moment I am using FTTN and it's working fine.

[DiscoMick]

You missed reading this part.





Not for most.
No I didn't miss it. An intermittent fault is still a fault. Attach a screenshot as proof. Keep complaining.
Copper doesn't have the capacity of fibre so the ISPs ration it according to what the customers tolerate. If you don't complain they assume you're happy and service others.
Copper will never achieve anything near the capacity of fibre, it's impossible.
Demand is growing rapidly as consumers discover what is possible. Copper can't even meet current demand, let alone future growth. It's like expecting a Series 1 to compete with a Rangie Sport - impossible.

[Mick_Marsh]

No I didn't miss it. An intermittent fault is still a fault. Attach a screenshot as proof. Keep complaining.
Copper doesn't have the capacity of fibre so the ISPs ration it according to what the customers tolerate. If you don't complain they assume you're happy and service others.
Copper will never achieve anything near the capacity of fibre, it's impossible.
Demand is growing rapidly as consumers discover what is possible. Copper can't even meet current demand, let alone future growth. It's like expecting a Series 1 to compete with a Rangie Sport - impossible.
I do complain.
The problem is rectified.
The ISP says "problem fixed".
Problem returns.
I complain.
The problem is rectified.
The ISP says "problem fixed".
Problem returns.
I complain.
The problem is rectified.
The ISP says "problem fixed".
Problem returns.

And so the cycle continues.....

Hey, did I tell you, I was using FTTN last night. It was great. Fast, wow, blew my hair out of its follicles.
I was audio streaming and watching videos on facebook without a problem.
The owner had his FTTN connected a couple of weeks ago. The connection point is just a socket on the wall and a router. No bulky power supply. No fibre connection box. Talk about neat.

[Slunnie]

The thing that annoys those of us who live outside major towns and cities is that with all the arguments about FTTP/FTTN, everyone ignores the fact that we were never going to get FTTanywhere, but wireless if we were lucky and satellite if not.

If you get wireless yo9u are lucky - until the wireless is inevitably overloaded, if you get satellite you get a minimum of 500+ms latency, an absolute maximum data quantity of less than the average annual increase in data use by fixed line users, plus an unreliable service that chews power and stops working when it rains (either at your place or at the other end) and is plagued with disorganisation, software issues, and obfuscation.

John

Fixed wireless is what I'm on. Its a little faster than picking it up from the mobile phone network, but even last night I had some youtube clips buffering as I was trying my best at karaoke

In addition to more users being on it, as everything moving across to being internet based like TV etc, it will be interesting to see how it all copes. Looking at it now, I suspect the capacity wont be there to do it as NBN should.

[bob10]

You missed reading this part.





Not for most.

Did you just quote yourself?

[jx2mad]

As an aside, if you lose power and the nbn box no longer works, does your phone connection still work? Why I ask is that we are moving to an area that has nbn running.

[Mick_Marsh]

As an aside, if you lose power and the nbn box no longer works, does your phone connection still work? Why I ask is that we are moving to an area that has nbn running.
No.

When I question further on this shortcoming, they answer "Use your mobile"".
I have additional UPSs to keep my comms and entertainment powered. Friends have wired in a generator to keep the lights on when all around is dark.

[jx2mad]

So the phone circuit plugs into the modem unlike the adsl2 setup

[SBD4]

So the phone circuit plugs into the modem unlike the adsl2 setup

That's right Jim, Assuming Fibre To The Node (FTTN).

[Mick_Marsh]

My mother had NBN installed four months back.
Phone only, no internet. They replaced the phone socket on the wall with a dual socket and paralleled them up They then ran a patch lead from the UNI-V port on the connection box to the telephone socket. This connects all the telephones in the house to the NBN connection box. The power supply beside it has an integrated UPS. On power failure, the UNI-V port is maintained, however, the UNI-D ports are not.
When you purchase a "bundle", the ISP supplies a router which plugs into the UNI-D port. All your equipment (computer, router, printer, phone, etc.) plug into that router. Depending on the setup, you could have one, two or three boxes on the wall.

Attached are photos of my mothers telephone only installation.
121847121848

[jx2mad]

So the nbn box is not a wifi router?

[Mick_Marsh]

So the nbn box is not a wifi router?

No. The NBN connection box basically converts your fibre connection to a 100Base-T Ethernet. Each service comes in on one port only. Your ISP will supply a wireless router or, if you can find out the settings, you can use your own. If you know the settings, you can plug one computer into it, or so I am told.

[AndyG]

A NBN crew turned up to bring the cable to the factory. Copper coaxial cable that is , tv antenna cable. Not just to the factory but the whole way from exchange. So it is a bit heavier than telephone cable. Bloke doing the install totally agreed it is a joke. Said they are banking on probability to give some users better internet. What this means is there are three speeds available. They are hoping that most users will opt for the lowest speed, thus allowing for some to have higher speeds. If every one opts for the fastest speed it is not going to happen. Which is one of the reasons some users have got slower speeds. To many in there area opting for the higher speeds.
The company I work for has the main factory and a smaller one across the road. The Smaller one is only used for rebuilding of machines. It has been stripped of its offices and lunch room for more room. NBN bloke turned up and asks where is the phone. States that they have on record a working phone. Has not been any phone for some ten years. This revelation caused him to choke on his chips. One of those types that if there system says there is a phone then they can`t be wrong. Well they where wrong this time. Had to actually walk him around the factory to convince him. And this is the mob who is installing our NBN
Cheers Hall

I suspect your Company was paying for this non existant service all these years.
I know a Bank that hsd ovrr 2000 services cancelled after a physical audit

[AndyG]

Yet to suffer the joys of NBN, foxtel coax is very nice thankyou.

I m not a Communications Engineer but i have been the Manager of the two largest ISP in PNG and have the scars to prove it.
imho
NBN was doomed from day 1.
It was a politicians thought bubble.
It did not address the importance of international links
As far as i know NBN does not cache, especially at the local evel, ie exchange
It should have resticted itself to an Uber service to Exchanges, universities, hospitals, and other large campuses. And left the lwst mile to the isp.
While fibre is premo, there is nothing inherently wrong with copper or wireless if configured correctly
VSAT will always be slow, get over it. But if rain sffected i guess its Ku band not C, probably to keep base station costs down.
No 1 enemy is the contention ratio, how many users share that bandwidth. Its an old game to move the users around, to reduce contention temporary
ask your rsp or isp what is the guaranteed contention, then ask about speed.

[DiscoMick]

When our router was replaced the installer said all our neighbours were on the same default frequency and reset it to a spare frequency no-one else was using, so now it's faster.

[jx2mad]

My problem as I see it will be that all the boxes will be at the front of the house near the entry point and I want to set up my pc at the rear of the house. I think I may need to buy a wireless dongle. Slow again!!![bigsad] Or do away with the pc and run laptop.

[Eevo]

My problem as I see it will be that all the boxes will be at the front of the house near the entry point and I want to set up my pc at the rear of the house. I think I may need to buy a wireless dongle. Slow again!!![bigsad] Or do away with the pc and run laptop.

cat6 through the roof

[Mick_Marsh]

My problem as I see it will be that all the boxes will be at the front of the house near the entry point and I want to set up my pc at the rear of the house. I think I may need to buy a wireless dongle. Slow again!!![bigsad] Or do away with the pc and run laptop.
As Eevo says, cat6. What can you run on that, 1Gbps? I still only have 100Mbps in the house.
Wireless N ( the fast one ) is only about 300Mbps.

[Eevo]

As Eevo says, cat6. What can you run on that, 1Gbps? I still only have 100Mbps in the house.
Wireless N ( the fast one ) is only about 300Mbps.


cat6 can do 1gbps. (can do more but the hardware is expensive and not home grade)

[Slunnie]

My problem as I see it will be that all the boxes will be at the front of the house near the entry point and I want to set up my pc at the rear of the house. I think I may need to buy a wireless dongle. Slow again!!![bigsad] Or do away with the pc and run laptop.

They asked me where I wanted the box and put it there.

[jx2mad]

Thanks for the info but I should clarify the situation. I will have fiber to the node, so the cable to the house is normal cable. Does that mean I can connect the router to any socket?

[DiscoMick]

By coincidence, I just found out that the NBN is now under construction in our area, so now the companies are letterboxing us with plans. I'm not excited and may delay to see if the next Labor Government dumps the copper in favour of fibre, which is what it should have been all along. No need to rush. Besides, we're planning to sell in a couple of years and head for the hills.[smilebigeye]

[Slunnie]

By coincidence, I just found out that the NBN is now under construction in our area, so now the companies are letterboxing us with plans. I'm not excited and may delay to see if the next Labor Government dumps the copper in favour of fibre, which is what it should have been all along. No need to rush. Besides, we're planning to sell in a couple of years and head for the hills.[smilebigeye]

If its now under construction I suspect that even with a change in govt, thats just what you'll have. Their priority will be getting it out with new sites going to FTTP. Mind you, if there is a change in govt then I hope they fix it properly.

[DiscoMick]

Me too.

[frantic]

cat6 can do 1gbps. (can do more but the hardware is expensive and not home grade)
You forgot one word at the end of that line Eevo, YET.
Most computers don't need or have programs that will use that speed , YET. But we all know it's only a matter of time until they get there. The throttle that has been placed by copper to the home will sooner rather than later be replaced by necessity.
Put simply think about your last 2 home computers, previously for me one had 1gb ram and a 500g hdd and before that I think it was 256meg and a 64gig hdd, now my 3yr old comp which is due for update in 1-3years has 4g and 1tb hdd . New pcs have 8-16gb ram 1-2tb hdd and lots are coming with 128-500g ssd for speed, 3 years ago these where stupidly expensive and only hardcore gamers had them, now much cheaper.

[DiscoMick]

You forgot one word at the end of that line Eevo, YET.
Most computers don't need or have programs that will use that speed , YET. But we all know it's only a matter of time until they get there. The throttle that has been placed by copper to the home will sooner rather than later be replaced by necessity.
Put simply think about your last 2 home computers, previously for me one had 1gb ram and a 500g hdd and before that I think it was 256meg and a 64gig hdd, now my 3yr old comp which is due for update in 1-3years has 4g and 1tb hdd . New pcs have 8-16gb ram 1-2tb hdd and lots are coming with 128-500g ssd for speed, 3 years ago these where stupidly expensive and only hardcore gamers had them, now much cheaper.

Yeah, I read somewhere that demand is rising by 40-60% annually around the world. I assume as people switch from TV to the Internet they still want to watch downloaded movies and shows, so that is forcing up the required speeds. Copper will never keep up. Why settle for second-best?

[mikegf]

When our router was replaced the installer said all our neighbours were on the same default frequency and reset it to a spare frequency no-one else was using, so now it's faster.

My mother was recently connected to a new non-NBN iiNet VDSL2 service (which is basically FTTN). Line speed was as promised (80Mbps) but "real" speed was crap (8-15). Pulling my hair out (as a semi-retired elec engineer) I checked with a ethernet connection and got 60+. Then it tweaked - the VDSL modems supplied are crappy units with 2.4GHz Wifi only. A quick look at the channels used and they were all chockers with users (2-3 routers per channel) - being in a high rise in town. Plugged in her old router from her previous NBN service (2.4GHz/5GHz), connected almost all of her devices to 5GHz WiFi and it was solved (there were basically no 5GHz users) - all getting 40+ consistently. Effectively I am now using her crappy VDSL router as a modem only (with VOIP and wifi disabled) and the 'old' router for the rest - VOIP voice and both wifi bands (she has a small printer 2.4G only).

So before you sit the phone for hours to talk to a useless (but usually very polite) foreign 'helpdesk', try a check with ethernet directly connected if you can (and for some that might solve it if you can use a wired connection) and then try either a different wifi channel or band. Most newer wifi gear (except for some really cheap stuff like mum's printer) are dual band. Basic dual band routers (if you need one) are in the $150-200 range. Of course you may just have a crappy ISP but that's a non-technical issue!

For what it is worth I am in commuting distance to the nation's capital and can only get Sat NBN (huge latency, max 60Gb per month etc as per other posts)! But at least I have 4G+ available - my 98G per month costing me $270 with speeds 20+ (and a couple of mobiles to boot) but worth it! And with the nearest neighbours over a mile away no wifi congestion! Though I am getting pretty sick of watching NBN ads telling me what I can't get!

[SBD4]

Thanks for the info but I should clarify the situation. I will have fiber to the node, so the cable to the house is normal cable. Does that mean I can connect the router to any socket?
It will be the same set up as your ADSL modem so yes you can plug the modem into any phone outlet



You will need a new modem (VDSL instead of ADSL), this is usually supplied preconfigured by your ISP. If you get one of your own then make sure it is certified to work on the NBN before buying it.
To get the best performance from the modem you should ensure there is only one active outlet, all other outlets should be removed from the line
Ideally a new cable should be run from the lead-in to the location you want your modem to be. By law, only licensed cablers are to do this work.
If you can't have the above work done then be sure to try the modem on each outlet to see which one performs best - there can be a huge difference in performance from one to the next.
No one from the NBN will visit your home to do the installation, your ISP may provide an installation service for a fee.
If you currently use a normal land line, it will no longer be able to function by plugging it directly into a phone outlet. Your phone will need to go through the modem. You will need additinal hardware to make your current phone work. Talk to your ISP about this if you want to maintain a land line.


pics from earlier posts refer to FTTP installation so not relevant to you.

[jx2mad]

It will be the same set up as your ADSL modem so yes you can plug the modem into any phone outlet



You will need a new modem (VDSL instead of ADSL), this is usually supplied preconfigured by your ISP. If you get one of your own then make sure it is certified to work on the NBN before buying it.
To get the best performance from the modem you should ensure there is only one active outlet, all other outlets should be removed from the line
Ideally a new cable should be run from the lead-in to the location you want your modem to be. By law, only licensed cablers are to do this work.
If you can't have the above work done then be sure to try the modem on each outlet to see which one performs best - there can be a huge difference in performance from one to the next.
No one from the NBN will visit your home to do the installation, your ISP may provide an installation service for a fee.
If you currently use a normal land line, it will no longer be able to function by plugging it directly into a phone outlet. Your phone will need to go through the modem. You will need additinal hardware to make your current phone work. Talk to your ISP about this if you want to maintain a land line.


pics from earlier posts refer to FTTP installation so not relevant to you.




Thanks. This answers my questions exactly. I will have to run a new cable to where the modem will go. (34 years as a telco running cables and maintaining telecom equipment)> Jim

[DiscoMick]

Nokia CTO warns NBN will need an upgrade from FTTN to take advantage of faster speeds | afr.com (http://www.afr.com/technology/nokia-cto-warns-nbn-will-need-an-upgrade-from-fttn-to-take-advantage-of-faster-speeds-20170411-gvidpz)
Nokia chief says NBN nodes will need upgrading within five years to fibre to the kerb.

[AndyG]

My problem as I see it will be that all the boxes will be at the front of the house near the entry point and I want to set up my pc at the rear of the house. I think I may need to buy a wireless dongle. Slow again!!![bigsad] Or do away with the pc and run laptop.

You can get devices that plug into your power circuits to carry ethernet, but im not a big fan,

[DiscoMick]

Or Wi-Fi range extenders.

[Mick_Marsh]

Thanks. This answers my questions exactly. I will have to run a new cable to where the modem will go. (34 years as a telco running cables and maintaining telecom equipment)> Jim

They put my equipment where I told them to put it, in the middle of the house. A mate had them put his equipment in the garage. Mum had them put her installation at the back of the house.
You decide.

[jx2mad]

If it is only fibre to the node and normal phone cable into the house, what has to be installed inside? As far as I can see it terminates on a normal phone socket into which you plug the modem. Jim

[Mick_Marsh]

If it is only fibre to the node and normal phone cable into the house, what has to be installed inside? As far as I can see it terminates on a normal phone socket into which you plug the modem. Jim
One would have thought so.
I know a bloke who had FTTN installed a few weeks ago. They ran new cable into the home.

[weeds]

18 months ago when we Reno' downstairs we ran CAT 6 to the office, down and upstairs lounge areas.....hopefully it was the right things to do...all going back to a hills ? Data cabinet thingy.

[Eevo]

You forgot one word at the end of that line Eevo, YET.
Most computers don't need or have programs that will use that speed , YET. But we all know it's only a matter of time until they get there. The throttle that has been placed by copper to the home will sooner rather than later be replaced by necessity.
Put simply think about your last 2 home computers, previously for me one had 1gb ram and a 500g hdd and before that I think it was 256meg and a 64gig hdd, now my 3yr old comp which is due for update in 1-3years has 4g and 1tb hdd . New pcs have 8-16gb ram 1-2tb hdd and lots are coming with 128-500g ssd for speed, 3 years ago these where stupidly expensive and only hardcore gamers had them, now much cheaper.

i doubt we'll see 10gbits home grade routers for another 10-15 years.

2.5 and 5gbit is more likely to take off.

[SBD4]

One would have thought so.
I know a bloke who had FTTN installed a few weeks ago. They ran new cable into the home.
I would expect that to happen if the quality of service provided on the existing lead in was not upto scratch.

[Slunnie]

If they're running new cable, then it does make you wonder why they're not rolling out fibre into the home.

[SBD4]

18 months ago when we Reno' downstairs we ran CAT 6 to the office, down and upstairs lounge areas.....hopefully it was the right things to do...all going back to a hills ? Data cabinet thingy.
Yep definitely the right thing to do. The more cat6 run the better - getting as many of your fixed devices (TVs, PCs, Prnters etc) off wifi and on to ethernet the better. Leave wifi for laptops, tablets and mobile phone etc. It will give a more reliable and better performing network over all.

[DiscoMick]

Why don't you ask them how much to run fibre rather than copper from the node to the home? My work had it done. It is possible. Do it right first time.

[Mick_Marsh]

If they're running new cable, then it does make you wonder why they're not rolling out fibre into the home.
Fibre, although the cable is cheaper than copper, requires extra equipment on the wall in a home to convert the fibre to copper.
For me, FTTN would be better because I wouldn't have to have the power supply and fibre router bolted on my wall like some piece of bad abstract art.

[Slunnie]

Fibre, although the cable is cheaper than copper, requires extra equipment on the wall in a home to convert the fibre to copper.
For me, FTTN would be better because I wouldn't have to have the power supply and fibre router bolted on my wall like some piece of bad abstract art.
I would assume that most people like me have it all mounted behind/in the tv cabinet where you can't see it. They don't have to sit next to the Picasso.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/363.jpg

[DiscoMick]

How Australia Bungled Its $36 Billion High-Speed Internet Rollout - NYTimes.com (https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/11/world/australia/australia-slow-internet-broadband.html'mwrsm=Facebook&_r=0&referer=http://m.facebook.com/)

[Tins]

I'm waiting on these guys. Not in my area yet, but most likely will be before the NBN, which will be FTTN.

Residential Plans - Uniti Wireless (https://unitiwireless.com/residential-plans/)

Keep your options open.

[Homestar]

I'm waiting on these guys. Not in my area yet, but most likely will be before the NBN, which will be FTTN.

Residential Plans - Uniti Wireless (https://unitiwireless.com/residential-plans/)

Keep your options open.

I pay the same as their 12/5 plan for 1000 gig, but I'm on 100/30. Seems expensive to me.

[Tins]

I pay the same as their 12/5 plan for 1000 gig, but I'm on 100/30. Seems expensive to me.

Try living in the Dandenongs. 35km from the CBD line of sight, and yet we are deemed "regional" by the ISPs, or, more likely, Telstra. We pay far more than that here, for, in my case, really shaky ADSL and 300Gb. NBN up here will be no better in the real world.

[Homestar]

Shouldn't matter where you live when the NBN gets there - I'm further out than that from the CBD. When is it planned for rollout there? Or is it just the pre NBN ADSL that's expensive?

[Tins]

Shouldn't matter where you live when the NBN gets there - I'm further out than that from the CBD. When is it planned for rollout there?

18 months minimum. It's geographical. Up here we have trees, Gav. You'll see some at Wombat......

Seriously though, that is the fact of it. Put any ISP you like into, say, the Ferny Creek exchange for comparison.. Many still don't offer ADSL2+. I sure can't get naked DSL, although why I'd want that when I can't get mobile service half the time is beyond me. Now, it's probably fair to say that they can't see the point now the NBN is coming, but it was an issue B4 the NBN was mooted.

Up here, with the frequent brown outs, a fixed line is essential. NBN ain't going to give me that. Not sure the wireless mob is either.

What was it Orwell said?

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

[PhilipA]

I have had NBN at Avoca Beach now for about 3months or so.

It was a PITA at first with a Modem that didn't work for VOIP and very slow speeds.

Even now the Optus supplied modem does not allow 5Gig network or printing via the modem which is a Sagemcom. The Modem DOES allow for it but the features are deactivated by Optus. Why who knows?
The VOIP is limited to 50Kms, how I don't know as its VOIP???

I pay only for the 11-12 Gbits and I seem to get about 10 plus all the time now, which enables streaming via Apple TV .
The total cost for NBN plus a mobile account is the same as I had with ADSL, as Optus give a discount on an unlimited mobile account from $30 down to $10 when on the same account as NBN so total cost is $90 per month. This was a PITA to arrange as it was my wife's phone and took several steps to switch into..

So I am now indifferent about NBN as it is virtually the same as when I had ADSL.LOL.
What we do to avoid changing an email address!
Regards Philip A

[bob10]

Telstra is refunding customers over the NBN speeds.

Telstra takes the lead to refund thousands of NBN customers (http://thenewdaily.com.au/life/tech/2017/05/16/telstra-refund-reimburse-internet-nbn-speeds/)

[bob10]

Service providers must only sell speeds that are available to customers.

Four million Australians won't have access to Gbps NBN speeds (http://thenewdaily.com.au/life/tech/2017/05/29/nbn-speeds-australia/?utm_source=Responsys&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20170530_TND)

[Eevo]

interesting. how would an isp determine what speed is available to me? trial and error?

[JDNSW]

interesting. how would an isp determine what speed is available to me? trial and error?

Each line is tested by NBN when it is installed. This information is available to the RSP but not to the customer the line! The RSP can, of course, pass this information on - if they care to and have sufficiently knowledgeable phone answerers to do so.

[bob10]

Don't forget it is compulsory.

6 Million Australians Are About To Get A Rude Shock When They Find Out The NBN Is Compulsory (http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/techandscience/6-million-australians-are-about-to-get-a-rude-shock-when-they-find-out-the-nbn-is-compulsory/ar-BBBEZPa?li=AAavLaF&ocid=spartandhp)

[simonmelb]

Only compulsory if you want a fixed line internet service - which most of us do. But in several locations eg Adelaide and parts of Melb there are now some good fixed wireless non NBN providers.

My HFC NBN appointment is tomorrow- fingers crossed!

[Tins]

Don't forget it is compulsory.

6 Million Australians Are About To Get A Rude Shock When They Find Out The NBN Is Compulsory (http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/techandscience/6-million-australians-are-about-to-get-a-rude-shock-when-they-find-out-the-nbn-is-compulsory/ar-BBBEZPa?li=AAavLaF&ocid=spartandhp)

No it isn't. They cannot make me join up, they can only prevent me using another fixed service. 4G, 5G are viable alternatives, and I don't "have" to allow NBNCo access to my property, especially as they are only offering FTTN here.

[Eevo]

No it isn't. They cannot make me join up, they can only prevent me using another fixed service. 4G, 5G are viable alternatives, and I don't "have" to allow NBNCo access to my property, especially as they are only offering FTTN here.


i wouldnt call 4g a viable alternative.

5g doesn't exist.

[Homestar]

No it isn't. They cannot make me join up, they can only prevent me using another fixed service. 4G, 5G are viable alternatives, and I don't "have" to allow NBNCo access to my property, especially as they are only offering FTTN here.

They will prevent you from using ANY fixed service. And they don't come onto your property with FTTN. If you're happy to have no home phone and pay for 4G then you're right. For light users of the internet that would actually work fine. If you stream TV and YouTube, etc, then it will get very expensive very quickly.

[frantic]

Service providers must only sell speeds that are available to customers.

Four million Australians won't have access to Gbps NBN speeds (http://thenewdaily.com.au/life/tech/2017/05/29/nbn-speeds-australia/?utm_source=Responsys&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20170530_TND)

Wow , thanks for that!
We are lucky that we have fibre to the home and with the speed upgrade it is excellent!!!!! There are up to 7 people using the net in my house at any one time and e virtually never get lagg or other issues compared to broadband.
Seeing others with the crappy FTTN and I am still disgusted that a supposed tech conscious pm would let this go ahead! Throw in the future cost of redoing the 32% plus in the future and it's another rhetoric over fact stuff up.

[Homestar]

Wow , thanks for that!
We are lucky that we have fibre to the home and with the speed upgrade it is excellent!!!!! There are up to 7 people using the net in my house at any one time and e virtually never get lagg or other issues compared to broadband.
Seeing others with the crappy FTTN and I am still disgusted that a supposed tech conscious pm would let this go ahead! Throw in the future cost of redoing the 32% plus in the future and it's another rhetoric over fact stuff up.

While I agree that the whole system has been watered down, we have FTTN and have excellent speeds. 3 or 4 heavy users all streaming or gaming at once without issue or interruption. We have paid for 100/40 and get very close together that. I do wish though that they'd kept with the original concept of FTTH on all connections though.

[JDNSW]

While I agree that the whole system has been watered down, we have FTTN and have excellent speeds. 3 or 4 heavy users all streaming or gaming at once without issue or interruption. We have paid for 100/40 and get very close together that. I do wish though that they'd kept with the original concept of FTTH on all connections though.

I wish people would stop saying this! It was never the plan to have everyone on FTTH. It was always the intention to have about 4% on wireless with speed limited to less than 50Mbps and data limits to prevent congestion, and about 3% on satellite with speed limited to 25Mbps with data quantities limited to less than 50GB/month and latency in excess of 500ms.

While ultimately delivering some form of internet availability to everyone (except the "too hard" cases) the NBN represents a dramatic widening of the gap between services available to urban and rural people, with not a whisper of any plan to do anything about it in the future. It delivers much better services to those who already had, or would soon get good services, with a few crusts thrown to those who most need good communications.

Sorry about the rant!

[DiscoMick]

While I agree that the whole system has been watered down, we have FTTN and have excellent speeds. 3 or 4 heavy users all streaming or gaming at once without issue or interruption. We have paid for 100/40 and get very close together that. I do wish though that they'd kept with the original concept of FTTH on all connections though.
My work has fibre to the main building and upgraded internal connections and we have some 600 laptops connected and it works great. That was totally impossible before we got fibre. Fibre is the way to go.

[DiscoMick]

I wish people would stop saying this! It was never the plan to have everyone on FTTH. It was always the intention to have about 4% on wireless with speed limited to less than 50Mbps and data limits to prevent congestion, and about 3% on satellite with speed limited to 25Mbps with data quantities limited to less than 50GB/month and latency in excess of 500ms.

While ultimately delivering some form of internet availability to everyone (except the "too hard" cases) the NBN represents a dramatic widening of the gap between services available to urban and rural people, with not a whisper of any plan to do anything about it in the future. It delivers much better services to those who already had, or would soon get good services, with a few crusts thrown to those who most need good communications.

Sorry about the rant!
Same problem of distance as mobile phone services.
Mind you, if the property has a fixed phone line then fibre to the property is possible. The individual cost could be astronomical in some cases, which is why we have a shared cost system so the profitable majority subsidise the isolated connection cost.
After all, the actual physical cost of connecting most urban consumers with fibre is only a fraction - as little as 10 percent in some cases - of the charged cost, according to my mate who does it for a living.
Putting nodes in is a waste of money - it's better to just lay fibre to the premises. The entire Australian copper phone network should be ripped out and replaced with fibre.
Just for once, could this country be a bit forward-thinking, instead of looking backwards?

[bob10]

Some facts, I guess.

How The Promise Of The NBN Fell Short For So Many Australians (http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/techandscience/how-the-promise-of-the-nbn-fell-short-for-so-many-australians/ar-BBBZuqA?li=AAavLaF&ocid=spartandhp)

[Mick_Marsh]

From the horses mouth, so to speak.

All your NBN questions answered (by the NBN)

All your NBN questions answered (by the NBN) - Download This Show - ABC Radio National (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/downloadthisshow/nbn/8276824)

Very interesting what the say at the beginning. Most people don't want the speed.

[JDNSW]

Some facts, I guess.

How The Promise Of The NBN Fell Short For So Many Australians (http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/techandscience/how-the-promise-of-the-nbn-fell-short-for-so-many-australians/ar-BBBZuqA?li=AAavLaF&ocid=spartandhp)

Which also conveniently ignores everyone who lives outside urban areas and those in villages and towns with less than about 1000 premises.
In other words, most rural Australians.

[bob10]

NBN gigabit internet speed trials slammed as a 'smokescreen' (http://thenewdaily.com.au/life/tech/2017/06/07/nbn-speed-trials-smokescreen/?utm_source=Responsys&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20170608_TND)

[JDNSW]

Had a relevant incident today at my son's place. He had a 16yo home alone from school, due to a sports injury. Just after lunch he got a text from her that something terrible had happened and she needed help. Actually, it wasn't terrible, what had happened was a widespread power outage, which she thought she had caused, having a record of tripping the circuit breaker from two many gadgets (including heaters) in her room.

This had the predictable effect of no internet and no phone as the modem was unpowered - FTTN, no backup battery as is standard with FTTP. What was not anticipated, was that the mobile service almost completely failed as well, with only a very flaky SMS available. I assume this is because when the power went out, the first reaction of most people was to phone someone (wife, husband, power company etc), and used their mobile since the fixed line phone did not work, resulting in instant overload of the mobile service.

Wouldn't want to be a real emergency!

[Tins]

Had a relevant incident today at my son's place. He had a 16yo home alone from school, due to a sports injury. Just after lunch he got a text from her that something terrible had happened and she needed help. Actually, it wasn't terrible, what had happened was a widespread power outage, which she thought she had caused, having a record of tripping the circuit breaker from two many gadgets (including heaters) in her room.

This had the predictable effect of no internet and no phone as the modem was unpowered - FTTN, no backup battery as is standard with FTTP. What was not anticipated, was that the mobile service almost completely failed as well, with only a very flaky SMS available. I assume this is because when the power went out, the first reaction of most people was to phone someone (wife, husband, power company etc), and used their mobile since the fixed line phone did not work, resulting in instant overload of the mobile service.

Wouldn't want to be a real emergency!

Up here the towers often go out with the power. They don't seem to be able to get a reliable UPS hooked up to them. Outages here are not rare. i can't wait:bat: