Furious at BMW Sydney!!

[12rrs]

Hey guys,

Got a story for you to hear about and see if anyone has any advice or help for me.


I purchased a used BMW for BMW Sydney.

750li F02 with 69,000kms to be exact.

When I took the car for a test drive there was an issue/noise/knocking coming from the front. I raised the concern with the sale guys who told me that he would get it looked at and was happy to get it fixed as a condition of sale of the car.

We agreed on a price for the car based on the repair been complete.

I was told the car was ready and that the issue was resolved(castor bushes replaced). So my bank made the funds transfer and I went to the dealer to collect the car. After collecting that car quickly realised that the issue wasn't fixed.

I contacted the dealer and they asked me to take the car back to them.

It's been back and forth to the dealer weekly since purchase over a month ago with them have the car for over a week at a time. They have tried a few things and still haven't been able to solve it. They now beleive it is the active sway bar.

Since pricing the part internally, they rang me this arvo, They have now decided that they do not want spend any more time and money on the car and have told me I have to take car back as it is. And warranty won't cover "wear and tear".

This is the short story with multiple trips, arguments and emails in between. Not to mention annoyed that the car was sold to me with 8 year old pirrellis which I replace within 3 days of owning when I realised at my expense.

This is not fair. I was told it was fixed. Condition of sale was that it was fixed. I would not have bought the car if they couldn't or didn't fix it.

I am absolute furious!

I have contact fair trade. They currently still have my car cause I have to get up to Sydney from Goulburn to collect it.

What can I do ? Do I have legal rights?

[V8Ian]

Get out of it while you can. All BMWs are known to lunch water pumps at 130,000 kays; not a big deal? Aftermarket, knock-offs are $2,000, sans labour, dealer fix; sell a kidney.

[pop058]

If you have an ongoing case with Fair Trading, Discussing it in public may not be advisable.

[12rrs]

Get out of it while you can. All BMWs are known to lunch water pumps at 130,000 kays; not a big deal? Aftermarket, knock-offs are $2,000, sans labour, dealer fix; sell a kidney.

Can't get out. It's paid for. That's the issue, if they told me before hand that couldn't fix it or didn't want to that would of been fine cause I wouldn't have bought it. But they told was fixed when I paid.

[Vern]

Is it in writing that it was condition of sale?

[12rrs]

Is it in writing that it was condition of sale?

I have emails and text messages between the sale guy and sales managers. Not to mention they all sick of seeing me in there and they have had the car longer then I have since I purchased and the car is still there and I have there loner car for a month.

[Rextheute]

Google will asssist you .
" Consumer protection " accc , etc

This is Federal Law , nothing the dealer tells you overwrites the law , no warranty ' express ', manufacturers or otherwise can negate these rights .

The customer is always right .

Be polite but firm - works better .

as they have had an opportunity to rectify and have , go for ' not fit for purpose ' Use terms such "reasonable expectations " , document everything .

Ask for a refund in full , offer to pay a ' rental fee ' for the short time you have had use of vehicle .

This is is not legal advice , I am not a lawyer .

I do have a fairly good understanding of the legislation......
Good Luck .

[DiscoMick]

If it's in writing they have to fix it. If they refuse then demand a full refund. Consumer law overrides everything else.

[101RRS]

Yes but try to enforce it - at the whim of the seller at the end of the day.

[12rrs]

There is no way they will give a refund. Unless it's an issue that jeopardise's the safety of the car. Even they they would just repair it.

They just keep repeating "wear and tear item" and "not deemed a safety concern".

Hopefully fair trading will convince them to fix it based on the fact that its what I was told was done. End of day that's the cheaper option then a refund for them.

But even then I don't think fair trade can force them to do anything either, they will just guide you the next step of legal battles. Don't know what power fair trade has.

Thought this kind of thing only happened at you local doggy used car dealer.

[loanrangie]

Should be an rwc item , I would demand a refund or you will go to the media.

[carlschmid2002]

I would have thought it is a road worthy issue.

[Fatso]

I was caught in the same situation a while back when i purchased a car for the Wife , a noise on the test drive which i concluded was a pinion bearing in the diff was shot , sales manager said they would fix and didn't .

Same crap back and fourth , An RAC inspection and independent analysis backed up my conclusion , long story short i got it repaired at my expense as i could see this going into the stratosphere of Lawyers and gobbledygook , and the stress and time consumed following this up was beyond the joke .

The only satisfaction i had was telling everyone i knew about my experience with a well know Jeep dealer . lesson learned do not and i reiterate DO NOT trust car yards to always act in your interests ,and back up from laws and legality's can be a stressful road to follow for the little man .

[DiscoMick]

I guess the lesson is don't pay money until after the problem is fixed.

[12rrs]

I guess the lesson is don't pay money until after the problem is fixed.

This is true. Should of drove it again before signing dotted line.

[12rrs]

I was caught in the same situation a while back when i purchased a car for the Wife , a noise on the test drive which i concluded was a pinion bearing in the diff was shot , sales manager said they would fix and didn't .

Same crap back and fourth , An RAC inspection and independent analysis backed up my conclusion , long story short i got it repaired at my expense as i could see this going into the stratosphere of Lawyers and gobbledygook , and the stress and time consumed following this up was beyond the joke .

The only satisfaction i had was telling everyone i knew about my experience with a well know Jeep dealer . lesson learned do not and i reiterate DO NOT trust car yards to always act in your interests ,and back up from laws and legality's can be a stressful road to follow for the little man .

I have a feeling that's how it's going to end up for me. Fair trade even asked if it was major issue. What's considered major? A safety concern? Or how expensive the repair is? Cause apparently, and can't be 100% untill carried out, it's the adaptive sway bar that cost 5k. But then is a sway bar a safety concern? Probably not.

Hope Inspectors sees it in my favour and excerises his power of enforcing a repair which apparently they have now. Got the impression they didn't have that power before.

[12rrs]

I would have thought it is a road worthy issue.

Maybe if it affected how the car drove. But at this stage it's is only a knocking and clunking. But same time no one can be certain what is causing as they have replaced a number of bearings and bushes etc trying.
The fact they were trying means they took responsibility for it I would think. Now they just trying the run away from it cause it's geting costly. Well that shouldn't just be pushed on me cause I took delivery.

[PAT303]

Get out of it while you can. All BMWs are known to lunch water pumps at 130,000 kays; not a big deal? Aftermarket, knock-offs are $2,000, sans labour, dealer fix; sell a kidney.

I found them for $450 or so,saying that the only thing I know about BMW's is from the Td6 in my L322.Like LR's buy from oversea's.

[V8Ian]

Where from Pat, got a link please?

[LandyAndy]

My Sister had a new BMW SUV from a Sidanee dealer.The thing was a lemon from day 1,and poor dealer backup.She didched it for a Merc.
Andrew

[PAT303]

Where from Pat, got a link please?

If it's a 4.4 I found one here Select Your Model (http://www.autohausaz.com/search/model.aspx'sid=q4orax3ukwa301451oo2j4ix&makeid=800003&year=2016). Pat

[PAT303]

Or this one Engine Water Pump - International Auto Parts Australia (https://iapaustralia.com/catalog/product/view/id/128367). Pat

[CraigE]

What BMW are you talking about?? Have not seen any at around $2k. I bought one for the 323i a last year and it was $80 (can get them from $45-$200 for the 323 and many other models). Dearest I have seen was around $600 for some late models but same can also be found for less than half that. Personally I find the BMW cheaper on parts than the Statesman, just not buying and servicing through BMW dealers who think because you own a BMW that you have an open cheque book.

Get out of it while you can. All BMWs are known to lunch water pumps at 130,000 kays; not a big deal? Aftermarket, knock-offs are $2,000, sans labour, dealer fix; sell a kidney.

[CraigE]

Click Automotive are one I use. There are a couple more that I cant recall their names at present but all Australian based.

Where from Pat, got a link please?

[V8Ian]

What BMW are you talking about?? Have not seen any at around $2k. I bought one for the 323i a last year and it was $80 (can get them from $45-$200 for the 323 and many other models). Dearest I have seen was around $600 for some late models but same can also be found for less than half that. Personally I find the BMW cheaper on parts than the Statesman, just not buying and servicing through BMW dealers who think because you own a BMW that you have an open cheque book.
130, friend has it, he's going to scrap it.

[CraigE]

Ian,
Clickable automotive $549
BMW Electric Water Pump for E8x, E9x, E60, X1, X3, X5, Z4 | Clickable Automotive (https://clickableautomotive.com.au/bmw-e8x-e9x-e60-x1-x3-x5-z4-electric-water-pump-11517586925-11517545201-11517586924.html)

Pierburg Electric Water Pump fits BMW 130i E87 2005-2010 3.0L N52B30 (http://www.gssautoparts.com.au/pierburg-electric-water-pump-fits-bmw-130i-e87-2005-2010-3-0l-n52b30/)

$299 US from US
NEW BMW ELECTRIC ENGINE WATER PUMP OEM PIERBURG 11517586925 X3 X5 328 528 128 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-BMW-ELECTRIC-ENGINE-WATER-PUMP-OEM-PIERBURG-11517586925-X3-X5-328-528-128-/131576245312?fits=Make%3ABMW%7CModel%3A130i&hash=item1ea28e2c40:g:X4MAAOSw9N1Vyhq2&vxp=mtr)

Hope this makes it viable
Cheers
Craig



130, friend has it, he's going to scrap it.

[V8Ian]

I don't think it will Craig, the car is seriously hail damaged and on the WOR.
The owner is a mechanic, having done his time and a further five years at a Citroen dealership. He is now sworn off European cars.

[1950landy]

I had the water pump , cam belt kit , vacuum hoses replaced , a/c hose replaced & re - gassed & some other work done for around $2500 on my 323i by a european car specialist , so water pump could not have been too expensive.[smilebigeye]

[V8Ian]

My mate's over it, it's now for sale, either a piece at a time or complete.
As an absolute rocketship, it's hard on fuel and license. [bigwhistle]

[CraigE]

Yet we are the opposite, would get another BMW in a minute even though ours is only an E36. Have heard from some that was the last of the good ones. **** all over the Holdens and local Fords quality fit and finish. Not sure I get the excessive dealer costs, they are just an engine and nothing out there in most of the road cars. Even the E36 323i goes like the prverbial and leaves a lot of local 8s behind. Same with any brand I suppose, you have one that gives you major grief and it is likely to be your last.
The problem with late model car is their parts are ridiculous prices. Was the same with the Holden/Chev 5.7 when it came out here. Same with D4 parts now.



I don't think it will Craig, the car is seriously hail damaged and on the WOR.
The owner is a mechanic, having done his time and a further five years at a Citroen dealership. He is now sworn off European cars.

[V8Ian]

Euros are odd, the common or taxi variety in Europe became a luxury vehicle in the 60s and 70s due to import duties. The mindset from repairers became, if you could afford to buy it, you could afford to pay through the nose to maintain it.
I had Volvos for a long time, mechanics told me they were hard to work on and expensive to maintain. I eventually met a German mechanic who told me they were just a Sweedish Commodore and charged accordingly.

[PAT303]

Parts for the L322 were no dearer than normal LR parts,the reason I bought it.I don't get Australian people who complain about Euro parts costs,get them from O/S and they are cheap as chips.I can get a complete German made Mahle service kit for the L322,the TDCi or Tdi for $40Aus delivered,I paid $45 for an Indonesian made Camry fuel filter the other day,and that was aftermarket.

[CraigE]

Well just looking at a supplier on Ebay called Car Wear and you want to see some of their stupid prices. Either they are deluded or miss priced items.
Nearly $1200 for a set of 4 fitted floor mats that I can buy elsewhere for $100.
Lots of other stuff as well

[incisor]

Well just looking at a supplier on Ebay called Car Wear and you want to see some of their stupid prices. Either they are deluded or miss priced items.
Nearly $1200 for a set of 4 fitted floor mats that I can buy elsewhere for $100.
Lots of other stuff as well
A lot of eBay suppliers do that when the item is out of stock

Seen it a lot with Merc part resellers

Must save them work somehow

[12rrs]

Got a update guys!!

Can you believe BMW Sydney issued a letter to fair trade that everything that happened is a lie and fabricated!!!!!!?!?!?

I am so angry but totally gob smacked!

Told fair trade the entire issue, with back a forth visits, attempts by them to repair it, names, dates etc and he cant believe they lied to such an extent.

Back and forth for over a month. Over 2000kms on my car and their loaner cars and they say never happened!

He can't force them to repair even if they told the truth. Cause they straight out said they not going to.

So my only choice is tribunal with text messages and emails between me and the sales team to prove that I am not lying, and that a verbal agreement about a repair is binding especially with proof.

New level of low by a place like BMW Australia!

[bsperka]

Go to a Current Affair with your story. May make them change their mind.

[12rrs]

Go to a Current Affair with your story. May make them change their mind.

I don't know if it's acurrent affair worthy, but dam this is so unfair.

Fair trade inspector couldn't believe after such a detailed story out of me with amount of people that it involved at BMW for more then a month that their only response was "he is lying". He was gobsmacked aswell.

He is calling them back to vent his frustration At their obvious complete lie.

[bsperka]

They may reconsider their position if there's bad press as a result. Just a thought.

[AndyG]

Park the car outside their office with a bill board detailing the saga

Or 5 litres of brake fluid [bigwhistle][bighmmm] in their used lot

[Toxic_Avenger]

Just drop a used gearbox on their doorstep. PF Vs Besanko style.

[12rrs]

Park the car outside their office with a bill board detailing the saga

Or 5 litres of brake fluid [bigwhistle][bighmmm] in their used lot

Your second option definately crossed my mind.

[12rrs]

NEW UPDATE!

Bmw has done a complete 360!

After fair trade ringing back to vent their frustration that their response to the whole dilemma was pretty much "he is lying", they have reissued a letter to fair trade stating they will carry out the repairs required to remove the knock! As long as I sign a letter saying I will not take legal action against BMW.

Did not expect that call this morning from fair trade.

I just want this fix. Hopefully will be happening soon! Fingers crossed.

[3toes]

The no legal action is OK so long as there is a time frame in which they have to fix it and a mutually agreed penalty if they do not meet this. Otherwise you have signed away your rights with no guarantee of a fix actually happening in a reasonable time frame.

[DiscoMick]

Maybe a clause saying if the repairs are satisfactory you will not pursue the matter. Legally, I'm not sure you can actually sign away your legal rights, they just exist.

[12rrs]

The no legal action is OK so long as there is a time frame in which they have to fix it and a mutually agreed penalty if they do not meet this. Otherwise you have signed away your rights with no guarantee of a fix actually happening in a reasonable time frame.

Has been crossing my mind. They have contacted me that they expect parts to arrive this week and I can take the car to them on Thursday, so doesnt look like they are delaying it.

Told me they need the car for longer then a day , and I said that's fine if I get a loaner car. Waiting for email to confirm loaner car as I am 200kms from Sydney. Don't see a problem with that as I had loaner cars for up to 2 weeks during the start of the drama.


I won't be signing anything untill I drive the car again to be sure it's solved. If they insist on a signature prior to starting work I will probably ask for a clause that asks for 2 signatures, one prior to work and one after.

Might just asked my solicitor his opinion before I go up for the service so I know what to say.

[Grumbles]

Might just asked my solicitor his opinion before I go up for the service so I know what to say.

This.....[thumbsupbig]

[12rrs]

WOW!

I just can not get a break!

So heading to Sydney to take car for its knocking noise repair they have finally agreed to fix with the help of fair trade.

About 30mins out of Sydney I get a warning to top up my engine oil with 1 litre asap! I'm like what now. So I pull into servo and top up with a litre. Mind you the car only got serviced less then 3000kms ago by BMW and had a full tank of oil. So the car just burn one litre in a month. (I managed these kms in the period of time as I was going back and forth to Sydney for my ongoing dilemma, putting approx 450 kms on a round trip).This can not be good.

I pop off the the engine cover to have a better look around to suss reasons for this over use of oil since I havent had a single drop on my garage floor even tho it's been at BMW more then home since I bought it.

I notice oil around the top of the engine in particular around crankcase vent tubes which are also venting off the air duct from the turbo that goes to the throttle body, and there is oil burning and smoke coming from the area! F$&!) great!
In this time I'm looking around I've also noticed I'm creating a fair bit of blue smoke which must be coming from exhaust aswell.

I did some googling and a common issue with the twin turbo 4.4 is valve stem issue leading to excessive oil use, or the turbos are blowing oil.

Either way both are super expensive repairs.

I'm assuming this issues would full under stat warranty. I dam hope so, as something is failing engine wise!!!

I dropped off the car and got a sales guy that knows nothing about why I was even then, just that he knew he had to get me a loaner car as the others had a day off. I have calmly informed him about everything and let him know I am totally over this car. All he could do is inform service since it was going there to have a look and get an answer.

Trying not to jump to conclusions etc but at this stage I really gonna push for a refund cause this is just absolute horse s&$t!

Now more waiting for answers! FML

[12rrs]

So a bit more info on my issue now that I have a good look and done some research.

I'm 90% sure I'm looking excessive amount of oil coming from crankcase vent tubes which is leaking and burning off on the engine causing the smoking under the engine cover. Trying to understand what causes this and it seams valve stem valves ? Maybe. Explain oil use.

The oil in the vent pipes is likely to be feeding oil back into engine cause smoking out the exhaust also caused by valve stems seals.

Either way big job and what I considers major failure, and under consumer law I'm entitled to request a refund.

Anyone know much about crankcase vent pipes and oil leaks?

Either way it's obvious to say I am ****ed!

[12rrs]

So a bit more info on my issue now that I have a good look and done some research.

I'm 90% sure I'm looking excessive amount of oil coming from crankcase vent tubes which is leaking and burning off on the engine causing the smoking under the engine cover. Trying to understand what causes this and it seams valve stem valves ? Maybe. Explain oil use.

The oil in the vent pipes is likely to be feeding oil back into engine cause smoking out the exhaust also caused by valve stems seals.

Either way big job and what I considers major failure, and under consumer law I'm entitled to request a refund.

Anyone know much about crankcase vent pipes and oil leaks?

Either way it's obvious to say I am ****ed!