Viscous coupling locked?

[123rover50]

I have not noticed this before, but giving the Sherwood a service I could not get to the front shaft grease nipples so thought OK jack up a front wheel and I should be able to rotate the shaft. No good.
T,box and Auto in Neutral, Hand brake off and still wont turn. It tries to turn the rear shaft at the same time. According to the book it should not lock up untill slipping generates heat.
Is mine permanently locked therefore stuffed?

Keith

[bee utey]

Use a crowbar in the unis to apply torque and it will give very slowly. A seized viscous tends to take out front CV joints.

[DoubleChevron]

If it's not seized... the easiest way would probably be to lift a front and a back wheel. That way you should spin both open diffs. I have two of those borg warner piles of merde here .... safetly removed from the cars so they cause me no further grief. I must say the LT230 is much noiser, even with the extra sound deadening I have added. But at least it won't leave me stranded with the CV joint taken out.

seeya,
Shane L.

[123rover50]

I put it back in the shed.
Dont quite understand. If it was seized with one back and one front wheel up would not they both turn .
I just thought with one wheel up I should be able to turn it but it seems it must take a lot of effort so havnt bothered further.
Keith

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

They do take a bit of effort to turn. I have replaced mine with an LT230 as well. And I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks they're noisy.

[DoubleChevron]

I put it back in the shed.
Dont quite understand. If it was seized with one back and one front wheel up would not they both turn .
I just thought with one wheel up I should be able to turn it but it seems it must take a lot of effort so havnt bothered further.
Keith

Google them. THere is specific tests you can do to verify the viscous unit is still working (from memory is was a big bar off a front wheel nut and constant force....). As suggested a pinch bar through the uni joint will do the same thing. If you can't move it at all .... with a decent bar ...don't drive the car .... You'll shatter the CV joints..... Want to guess how I know this [bigwhistle]

seeya,
Shane L.

[PLR]

I have not noticed this before, but giving the Sherwood a service I could not get to the front shaft grease nipples so thought OK jack up a front wheel and I should be able to rotate the shaft. No good.
T,box and Auto in Neutral, Hand brake off and still wont turn. It tries to turn the rear shaft at the same time. According to the book it should not lock up untill slipping generates heat.
Is mine permanently locked therefore stuffed?

Keith


G`day ,

we had 3 we have 2 now , each one if a front wheel was lifted etc , using the breaker bar for the wheel nuts

which is about 14" by applying constant pressure the bar would slowly move as the wheel rotated .

There is a correct time distance measurement but if they moved for mine that`s enough .

If quick short pressure is applied nothing happens as if seized .

I haven`t had the need to do it but a seized one would turn both wheels if front and back off the ground but i would think a good one may give the same outcome .

The reason all 3 vehicles had VCs that worked is because i have a spare Borg Warner in the shed with a good VC if not for that i`m sure at least 1 would have failed .

[123rover50]

Thanks all. It seems like I did not try hard enough. The CV,s are OK so presumably the VC is too. Its a 92 and done 223000 k,s

Keith

[pop058]

Thanks all. It seems like I did not try hard enough. The CV,s are OK so presumably the VC is too. Its a 92 and done 223000 k,s

Keith
The offer stands Keith [biggrin]

[Baggy]

Unsure if 92 RRC had viscous coupling ....

I thought it was in later soft dash models ...I thought I dodged a bullet ( VC) with my 92

Baggy

[bee utey]

Unsure if 92 RRC had viscous coupling ....

I thought it was in later soft dash models ...I thought I dodged a bullet ( VC) with my 92

Baggy

My '89 has one. A fair few have been swapped out for the LT230 of course.

[PLR]

Unsure if 92 RRC had viscous coupling ....

I thought it was in later soft dash models ...I thought I dodged a bullet ( VC) with my 92

Baggy


G`day ,

1989 were the first that used the Borg Warner with chain VC etc .

So around 6 years of them all used VCs and all P38A RRs use the exact same VC around 9 years worth with more ponies and torque .

With a seized VC they will still drive .

With the splines stripped on the output shaft , there is no drive not unlike putting the transfer in neutral .

I have been stuck for a short while in or 85RR because i forgot to put the lever across in time , put the lever across and it is unstuck .

I think the Borg Warner is a good thing and much maligned as with the EAS .

[Bradtot]

I Love My BorgWarner Transfer case
Its quiet it works
I dont have to do anything but go to low or high range. They are easy to fix (chain or drive shaft or vc)
I have no idea why so many people dont like them.
I got 320000 out of the original in my rangie and then replaced it with one that someone chucked in a bin at a landrover repair place, which I dismantled and checked and found the shaft stripped on the splines. A new shaft was 120 bucks and now that one now has 95000k from when I fitted it.
Rangie has 414000kms on it now
My original had the chain loose and it was making noises, a new chain would have fixed it. The VC unit was still ok and I still have it as a spare.
I have LT 230 in my disco TD5 But I still prefer the Borg warner.
I have gone as far in my VC rangie as I did with my LT95 in my 82 rangie.
Anyway Thats my 2 cents worth
Brad[bigsmile1]

[PhilipA]

I agree.
My RRC Borg Warner just worked unobtrusively.

It is wise to check at about 200KK whether the rear output shaft is worn. I checked mine just before going to Cape York and it was so worn that it had jammed in place on the tips of the splines. A replacement cost about $100 plus a rear bearing which I replaced as insurance.

I had a spare which I bought for $20 and it had worn out the output shaft also.

Its funny that the RRCs seem to wear out the output shaft while 38As seem to stretch chains.
My VC was fine although I was lucky to score a low K one for $80.

I must take back my comments years ago that the LT230 is noisy and clunky, as my D2 one is quiet and smooth, but I still think I prefer the BW. There is a reason that almost all transfers these days are variants of the BW ie chain driven not gear driven..

Regards Philip A

[DoubleChevron]

I agree.
My RRC Borg Warner just worked unobtrusively.

It is wise to check at about 200KK whether the rear output shaft is worn. I checked mine just before going to Cape York and it was so worn that it had jammed in place on the tips of the splines. A replacement cost about $100 plus a rear bearing which I replaced as insurance.

I had a spare which I bought for $20 and it had worn out the output shaft also.

Its funny that the RRCs seem to wear out the output shaft while 38As seem to stretch chains.
My VC was fine although I was lucky to score a low K one for $80.

I must take back my comments years ago that the LT230 is noisy and clunky, as my D2 one is quiet and smooth, but I still think I prefer the BW. There is a reason that almost all transfers these days are variants of the BW ie chain driven not gear driven..

Regards Philip A

I was lucky the viscous unit in the 2nd range rover I had here died "open" rather than "locked" (the other took out the front 'cv). The trouble is these days ... can you find the viscous unit for sale anywhere .... and if you can, is its cost more than the cars market value :confused:

The drivechain lash reduced massively when I put an LT230 in as well (I'm assuming the chain in the borg warner was stretched so introduced a lot of slop into the driveline).

the easiest way to pick (without getting dirty and crawling underneath) which transfer case you have .... is look for the center diff lock. if you can't move the lever sideways, you have a borg warner (or a retro-fitted lt230 that can't be locked I guess).

seeya,
Shane l

[Baggy]

Thanks everyone....

Didn't realise VC were used in 89 Classics.

Not to hijack the thread I actually haven't engaged the transfer box since owning this 92 Classic.

Shane I'll check the lever for movement ....understand previous owner did swap out auto geatbox for one that was better suited to touring.

He's swapped out the ABS (thanks bee utey) so maybe the VC has gone as well ....although the car is quiet.


Cheers

Baggy

[DoubleChevron]

if you stick your head under they look really different.... the borg warner is HUGE!

borg warner
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/115.jpg

lt230
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/116.jpg

[superquag]

The reason why "everyone" uses a CHAIN drive transfer case is... efficiency vs co$t and they're normally much quieter. Despite my old Paj having a damaged chain & cogs... (PO drove it in 4WD-H for HOURS on a highway !) it was perfectly silent in RWD.

Bigge$t problem with the LR / BW is...the ridiculous co$t (NON-availability now at ANY price... ?) and unpredictable life of the viscous coupling.

Second biggest, IMHO, is foolishness... I'd like to use stronger and different terms, but. Why BW elected to use THAT particular VC for ONE model of Transfer case only, is beyond sensible thought. I understand that BW make more than one model of case for more than one vehicle manufacturer...

Lastly, because of the 'brilliant design', the VC must be physically in place to transmit drive, so there is no work-around or fall-back position. Continued use as it approaches 'failure' (usually locked-up) stre$$e$ and damage$ other drive-line component$.

Only a few Range Rover owners are fortunate enough to have an 'open' failure, where the only give-away is being bogged.[bighmmm]

Interesting about the P38 eating chains, whereas the Classic destroys output splines first... My guess is a difference in weight and/or loading, front to rear axles.

[PhilipA]

BTW the RRC and 38A VCs are the same part so if you see a 38A being wrecked for the many other problems they have , then grab the BW.

Regards Philip A

[Baggy]

Hi Shane,

A picture says a thousand words .... its an lt230 transfer box.


Cheers

Baggy

[DoubleChevron]

Hi Shane,

A picture says a thousand words .... its an lt230 transfer box.


Cheers

Baggy

Talk about lucky :) You should be able to move the transfer case lever sideways to lock the center diff. :) If the linkages haven't been setup, that means your stuck with an open diff, so will get stuck with just one wheel spinning!

seeya,
Shane L.

[gavinwibrow]

Hi Shane,

A picture says a thousand words .... its an lt230 transfer box.


Cheers

Baggy


Hi Baggie I have a BW VC with no guarantee you can have if you get nostalgic!!! (No, it is not your one James!)

PS - I'm sure you will be fine, but if you want to test a proper LT230, you are welcome to have a play with mine (and I can pick up those height sensors maybe?) cheers Gavin

[superquag]

Good News !
Received a reply from Ashcrofts UK, they plan on re-building the VC, so check their website next week, when they hope to have them listed.

[Bradtot]

Good News !
Received a reply from Ashcrofts UK, they plan on re-building the VC, so check their website next week, when they hope to have them listed.


But you don't own one of those evil things anymore...or do you?
LOL....[bigwhistle]

[Baggy]

Hi Gavin,

I'll send you a PM ....as soon as I work out how to do so.

The wheel sensors (rear) and one front (from memory) are with your wheels are on the chassis up at my brothers place.

Happy to pull them off and you can pick them up from my place or I can drive to you ..... i enjoy driving the classic but only get to
drive her onenight during week and on the weekends :(

I've logged the milage the day I bought her (now over a year ago) and to 17/04/2017 has only done 5,297Klms ..... but she's had two
oil changes

Love to check out and drive (fingers crossed) a sweet classic with a TD5 ... [bigsmile1]


Cheers


Baggy

[superquag]

But you don't own one of those evil things anymore...or do you?
LOL....[bigwhistle] People ARE watching me !

Nope, sold it [biggrin][biggrin][biggrin][bigsmile][biggrin][biggrin][biggrin]

IF i ever weakened, it would not be for a v8 rangie, especially with a BW