'L' Plates!

[JDNSW]

On Tuesday, my two oldest grandchildren both got 'L' plates. So yesterday I took the older one (18) on a lesson (both have done some driving on private land) in the County. Total of forty km, about half on very quiet (no cars, a few roos, about fifty cattle and four quad bikes!), and half on a two lane highway (light traffic, but included a railway crossing and a section of roadworks with traffic light control of a single lane.

This morning, took the younger one (16) over the same route in the 2a (She's only driven it previously, her sister has driven both vehicles, but likes the power steering in the County). No cattle or quad bikes, but quite a bit more traffic on the highway, including B-doubles, caravans, etc. None of these seemed worried by the 47 year old Landrover sporting 'L' plates and proceeding at a leisurely 60kph.

My nerves are recovering, and no damage to the vehicles, although probably a bit worn off the teeth of first gear on the 2a from an inadvertent attempt at first instead of third..

[Gordie]

Well done and good on you...now you have another 70hrs for each, of sitting in the passenger seat, if your state has similar 'L' rules to SA! It's a lot of hours to knock off, I did it twice over, but fear not, you get there in the end!

[LRT]

In Victoria it's 120 hours (including 10 hours of night driving) under supervision before you can get your licence.

[JDNSW]

NSW is also 120 hours - about three times the hours I needed to get a restricted private pilot's licence, and less than half of that had to be 'under supervision'!

[Roverlord off road spares]

In Victoria it's 120 hours (including 10 hours of night driving) under supervision before you can get your licence.
In Vic , If over 21 yrs old then no hours required and you go straight to green Ps

[NavyDiver]

Good one mate. My son is scaring other drivers at time and reducing the need for laxatives at home[tonguewink]

He will not drive with mum any longer as she is a little more than nervous when he is driving her car[bigsmile1]

[LRT]

In Vic , If over 21 yrs old then no hours required and you go straight to green Ps

And no V8's until your off your P's. Seems ridiculous that you can't drive a 2 tonne plus 190 HP V8 Discovery but can drive a 1.3 tonne 170 HP Volvo 850. The Volvo will out accelerate the Discovery hands down due to the better power to weight ratio. There are some problems with their calculations! That means a Stage I V8's are banned as well. Problem is I can't see a stock standard Stage I outperforming a modern V6 vehicle 😂

[ATH]

Very timely this thread as I saw a P plater with her g/dad who is obviously teaching her to drive today in the local shopping centre car park.
Straight in her car cocky as can be and before g/dad had closed his door it was fired up and jumped forward and luckily there was nothing parked in front of her. Obviously no checking for it being in gear or anything other than showing anyone looking how good she was.
How well trained is she going to be?
AlanH.

[cuppabillytea]

NSW is also 120 hours - about three times the hours I needed to get a restricted private pilot's licence, and less than half of that had to be 'under supervision'!

Yes John, but you have a much greater chance of dying in Motor Vehicles, than you do in Aircraft.

[JDNSW]

Yes John, but you have a much greater chance of dying in Motor Vehicles, than you do in Aircraft.

You are probably right, although I have not seen statistics on it. But the general perception at least is that flying requires greater skill and knowledge - as well as the operating skills, and knowledge of regulations, the pilot also requires basic aeronautical knowledge, which in turn requires a significant knowledge of physics, plus (admittedly not for the restricted licence) navigational and map reading skills, none of which have equivalents in driving.

[cuppabillytea]

You are probably right, although I have not seen statistics on it. But the general perception at least is that flying requires greater skill and knowledge - as well as the operating skills, and knowledge of regulations, the pilot also requires basic aeronautical knowledge, which in turn requires a significant knowledge of physics, plus (admittedly not for the restricted licence) navigational and map reading skills, none of which have equivalents in driving.

Yep. All of which means that there is a prerequisite level of intelligence for flying that is not required for driving.
What is required for driving, is an ability to read analyse and predict the actions of other drivers. If you were to record the lessons that you're giving your Grand Children, I'm pretty sure that you would find yourself instructing them in this art. That is why I think they require a greater level of instruction.

[DiscoMick]

I think it's 100 hours in Qld, but I could be wrong.
I'm told some people cheat and make false entries because they are too lazy to put the time into it.
I recommend taking them karting so they can test their limits without hurting anyone.

[weeds]

I think it's 100 hours in Qld, but I could be wrong.
I'm told some people cheat and make false entries because they are too lazy to put the time into it.
I recommend taking them karting so they can test their limits without hurting anyone.

Yep 100hrs...currently have two kids on L's

Yes some would cheat but my kids wouldn't dare

[AllTerr]

Mine is about 45 hrs into hers. And I've already been told she's going to only do 80 hrs and fake the rest... In Florida (5 times as many vehicles in 1/10 the space), there is no L's or even P's. You get full license at 16 and can drive whatever you want.

[LRT]

Wow, down here they check and add up the hours on the log book (takes 45 min generally) and then do a basic roadworthy of the licence test vehicle before you go on the drive test. Then it's no Disco V8's but you can drive a Volvo with a 170 HP 5cyl engine. I'll let you guess which is quicker 😄

[carjunkieanon]

My five boys (oldest is 8) are already asking when they can get their licence. Three in three years, then a short break till the next two. I'm already stressing about it!!

[trog]

Does the log book system have any requirement to complete a defensive driving course with an approved instructor ? For me to get a licence would have been possible but without the driving classes , theoretical and practical my personal driving insurance would have been astronomical. Best guess at the time I was paying over $1000 per year . Any infringements would have to be disclosed at renewal time. The premiums then adjusted in accordance. Certainly kept hooning to a rarity.

[V8Ian]

Does the log book system have any requirement to complete a defensive driving course with an approved instructor ? For me to get a licence would have been possible but without the driving classes , theoretical and practical my personal driving insurance would have been astronomical. Best guess at the time I was paying over $1000 per year . Any infringements would have to be disclosed at renewal time. The premiums then adjusted in accordance. Certainly kept hooning to a rarity.
Yet you still drove on the wrong side of the road. :tease:

[trog]

Yet you still drove on the wrong side of the road. :tease:

Only enough room for one way on the sidewalk !

[V8Ian]

Kevin, I did the Queensland Transport Defensive Driving course many years ago. What a total waste of time, my FiL taught me more, he'd done a far better course in the UK, as a lorry driver.

[SBD4]

My journey is about to begin.....my daughter sits her knowledge test for her L's on Saturday week.:no2:

[350RRC]

Very timely this thread as I saw a P plater with her g/dad who is obviously teaching her to drive today in the local shopping centre car park.
Straight in her car cocky as can be and before g/dad had closed his door it was fired up and jumped forward and luckily there was nothing parked in front of her. Obviously no checking for it being in gear or anything other than showing anyone looking how good she was.
How well trained is she going to be?
AlanH.

We'll see how she goes while texting and driving on the highway and whether she knows what the right hand lane is really for.

DL

[d2dave]

You are probably right, although I have not seen statistics on it. But the general perception at least is that flying requires greater skill and knowledge - as well as the operating skills, and knowledge of regulations, the pilot also requires basic aeronautical knowledge, which in turn requires a significant knowledge of physics, plus (admittedly not for the restricted licence) navigational and map reading skills, none of which have equivalents in driving.

You got that right. Below are the study books my son had to learn to get his commercial license.

For those that don't know, the commercial is not a license to fly big jets, this is simply to allow him to earn money flying
and in this case just in a small single engine plane.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/66.jpg


And the book for learning to drive.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/67.jpg

[trog]

After what I saw on the roads lately , it seems no one is teaching these new invincibles about reading the the traffic or courtesy towards other road users , including pedestrians on crossings. If it weren't for the costs involved I would like to see a national licence and scheduled reassessments every couple of years. Often I have heard most drivers would fail the German testing.

[JDNSW]

I think the problem you are seeing is not knowledge in most cases, but attitude. They know the rules, and know what they should do - they just find it more convenient to forget this after they have passed the test. In light of this, I doubt that regular testing would have a significant effect - and as you comment, it would be very expensive. A bit like routine annual roadworthy tests as used by some states but not others - nothing in the statistics suggests it has a detectable effect on road safety.

As for "national" - first you would have to arrange for the states to all agree to harmonise the laws and regulations. That simply is not going to happen. Just to take a simple example - a state with a minimum licencing age of 17 is never going to agree to go to 18 just to conform; too many young people (looking forward to their licence at 17) vote next year, and a state with a licencing age of 18 is never going to agree to drop it to 17; too many voters had to wait until they were 18.

The same sort of thing applies to nearly all the other difference - "they should change, not us". As they say, "Politics is the art of the possible", and this is just not possible.

[austastar]

I would like to see a national licence
Hi,
Yes please.

Cheers

[cuppabillytea]

I'll go on that list too and you can bung rego in for good measure. ACTUALLY: Why not mace all Road and Traffic Legislation and administration NATIONAL?

[JDNSW]

I'll go on that list too and you can bung rego in for good measure. ACTUALLY: Why not mace all Road and Traffic Legislation and administration NATIONAL?

Because Australia is a federation - and to change this would require a majority in all states at a referendum. Trying to get that passed would be a pretty futile exercise. (Instead of changing the constitution you could get all states and territories to agree to transfer all this to the Commonwealth - only a slightly less futile endeavour!)

[cuppabillytea]

Because Australia is a federation - and to change this would require a majority in all states at a referendum. Trying to get that passed would be a pretty futile exercise. (Instead of changing the constitution you could get all states and territories to agree to transfer all this to the Commonwealth - only a slightly less futile endeavour!)

That's very true John. I'm sad to say I've known that much for a long time but recently I've seen how Political will can be moulded
by a strong public voice.

[JDNSW]

That's very true John. I'm sad to say I've known that much for a long time but recently I've seen how Political will can be moulded
by a strong public voice.

Maybe, but I have seen no "strong public voice" for the abolition of states.

The problem is that people may feel strongly, for example, about uniform national road laws and regulations, but there is no support (or very little) to even discuss the political changes that are necessary for these to happen.

The other issue is that although many people want uniform regulations, what they expect is every other state and territory coming into line with us!

When it comes to us making changes to come into line with the rest, especially when it comes to serious issues such as driving age - forget it!

[cuppabillytea]

Maybe, but I have seen no "strong public voice" for the abolition of states.

The problem is that people may feel strongly, for example, about uniform national road laws and regulations, but there is no support (or very little) to even discuss the political changes that are necessary for these to happen.

The other issue is that although many people want uniform regulations, what they expect is every other state and territory coming into line with us!

When it comes to us making changes to come into line with the rest, especially when it comes to serious issues such as driving age - forget it!
True. Sad but true.

[cuppabillytea]

Although, Aviation and now Maritime are Federal, so there is a glimmer of hope.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

that just shows us how important the Gov thinks the road rules are,,

[DiscoMick]

The states are already so dependent on the federal government for GST revenue that there is no way they would consider handing over any more revenue to them.
That's a pity as these things really should be national.
Maybe the best we could hope for would be better cooperation between the states to standardize the charges and processes.

[JDNSW]

Although, Aviation and now Maritime are Federal, so there is a glimmer of hope.

Aviation has been federal since states referred their powers to the federal government when aviation was just starting. Some aspects of maritime have also been federal since federation, but I was not aware that all maritime was now federal - last I noticed boat registration, boat operating licences, fishing licences etc were all state issued!

[cuppabillytea]

Aviation has been federal since states referred their powers to the federal government when aviation was just starting. Some aspects of maritime have also been federal since federation, but I was not aware that all maritime was now federal - last I noticed boat registration, boat operating licences, fishing licences etc were all state issued!

Private Boat registration, Speedboat and PWC licences and policing, are still with the States but all Commercial Certification, for both Vessels and Competencies, ere now under the control of AMSA.

[JDNSW]

Private Boat registration, Speedboat and PWC licences and policing, are still with the States....

In other words, everything that concerns 90% of the voters! And I suspect about as likely to change as licencing.

Console yourself with the fact that at least licences etc are valid interstate!