3.6 EGR blanked and tuned out

[Graeme]

My brother's MY08 seems for a while to have been experiencing EGR problems (P065E-68 Inlet manifold tuning valve error bank 1 and eventual loss of power towing uphill along with some coolant temperature increase) so the option of blanking the EGR valves and applying a BAS EGR delete s/w update via his IIDTool is being considered. Any comments?

[justinc]

Certainly worth it Graeme. EGR deposits are 'satans snot' in my books😅

Jc

[Graeme]

The reference to a tuning valve threw me for a while, wondering if there was some sort of inlet tract length change capability but soon realised the attempt to give EGR a name suggesting a more acceptable function.

[rar110]

As you know I have fitted EGR emulators, which have been good. But BAS EGR map out with remap is another good option. Their remap is cheap compared to others.

[Graeme]

An emulator kit was originally considered but having since procured an IIDTool for a remote area trip last spring the s/w option is now cheaper.

For quite some time the vehicle has appeared to have overheating problems towing the van on long climbs, seeming to go into a low power mode which it may or may not have done but discovering the EGR DTC starts to explain the behaviour. No DTC occurs with normal driving so the valve must get sticky when hot.

[rar110]

The motor is quieter and smoother without the EGRs. I recently did a high tide, low range, extended beach run, fully loaded (after 'decamping') which resulted in everything getting quite hot. I gave it a breather when the coolant temp was getting close to the right/red side of the gauge. The fans were going full pelt. But not a hint of a fault. I was pretty impressed.

I think emulators helped as the tdv8 seems to dump more fuel in to compensate for EGR activity. Just my unqualified observation of black smoke out the back when the EGRs were working.

[Eevo]

I think emulators helped as the tdv8 seems to dump more fuel in to compensate for EGR activity. .

does excess diesel have a cooling effect like in petrol engine?

[justinc]

does excess diesel have a cooling effect like in petrol engine?

Exact opposite unfortunately 😮😮

[Eevo]

Exact opposite unfortunately 😮😮

thanks, i thought that was the case.

so the emulator puts in extra fuel (compared to having a real EGR).
which would result in higher temperatures?

[Blade74]

I'd like to know if you do go with the BAS map whether they remove the egr in the map for you or not.
Pete didn't want to do a EGR delete on my 3.6 unless I mechanically deleted it which isn't just ab easy blanking plate.

[rar110]

thanks, i thought that was the case.

so the emulator puts in extra fuel (compared to having a real EGR).
which would result in higher temperatures?

When EGR was operating there was a lot more black smoke ie unburnt fuel. I thought the motor might have been dumping in more fuel to compensate for lower output resulting from intake of exhaust instead of air.

There's very little black smoke now the emulators are fitted.

[rar110]

I'd like to know if you do go with the BAS map whether they remove the egr in the map for you or not.
Pete didn't want to do a EGR delete on my 3.6 unless I mechanically deleted it which isn't just ab easy blanking plate.

Pete from BAS couldn't understand how the motor was operating with the EGRs unplugged. He suggested removing two butterfly valves on the basis these closed if engine thought the EGR was open. However, Gally indicates his observation was that the butterfly valves moved very little on the tdv8 3.6 and didn't close. That seems to be the case as I've had the emulators for over a year and not touched the butterfly valves.

I'd go with the BAS EGR delete if you weren't keen on emulators or if you wanted a remap. Even if the delete doesn't fully disable the EGR, the result is much less intake of exhaust.

[Graeme]

I'd like to know if you do go with the BAS map whether they remove the egr in the map for you or not.The implication from the BAS web-site is that the performance remap does not normally include disabling EGR.

The EGR delete option needs the EGRs blanked in case they are not closing properly.

My 4.4 closes the butterfly when opening the EGR valve if not initially then at least when it detects too much airflow through the primary maf, evidenced by blanking the EGR tube alone causing the engine to savagely baulk unless accelerating and obviously starved of air of any description.

[rar110]

That's my understanding too. The BAS remap and EGR delete are two separate products, so you can buy either or both. Sorry if my post inadvertently suggested it was included in the remap. The only real advantage of buying both is each software change should work together and be compatible.

The 3.6 butterflies can't be moving much on mine. They certainly can't be closing as it's been performing great with the EGR unplugged and in the closed position. The emulator modules must be doing something to ensure the butterflies don't close. Otherwise a blanking plates alone would work (they don't).

[Blade74]

Cheers.
I asked pete if I should do it. I wasn't worried if it was seperate or if I had to pay more.
I don't think Pete wants to accept responsibility if an egr butterfly gets stuck open. Which could definitely happen.
Who knows what damage it can cause.
So he said he's only do one for me if I could mechanically close it fully shut.

[Fatso]

That's my understanding too. The BAS remap and EGR delete are two separate products, so you can buy either or both. Sorry if my post inadvertently suggested it was included in the remap. The only real advantage of buying both is each software change should work together and be compatible.

The 3.6 butterflies can't be moving much on mine. They certainly can't be closing as it's been performing great with the EGR unplugged and in the closed position. The emulator modules must be doing something to ensure the butterflies don't close. Otherwise a blanking plates alone would work (they don't).

My 2.7 RRS has had the emulators fitted since Feb last year and have not noticed any probs with the butterfly which is still in place , the only problem i had from day 1 with the emulators is a PO402 code , ( excess egr ) , which has not caused any issues that i am aware of .
Also got a slight improvement in fuel usage .

[rar110]

Interesting about that fault. What year is your RRS? Mines been in with the tdv8 for about 15,000km without any fault.

I get an occasional slight momentary drop in revs when idling. I'm starting to think this is the butterfly valves trying to coordinate with the EGR.

[Fatso]

[QUOTE=rar110;2671623]Interesting about that fault. What year is your RRS? Mines been in with the tdv8 for about 15,000km without any fault.

I get an occasional slight momentary drop in revs when idling. I'm starting to think this is the butterfly valves trying to coordinate with the EGR.[/QUOTE

2007 2.7 TD6 , I checked with Gally prior to purchase of my emulators about this code as i got it when using a set of EGR,s as emulators earlier on and he said it would be fine !! . Any way it does not cause any problems or alarms other than the code is on the ECU ,can clear it but comes back . As my car is a January 2007 build and is Euro 4 Bell Auto says it could be some sort of hybrid mapping between Euro 3/4 as the Maff is picking up increased air intake when the EGR should be operating and logging P0402 , but not causing a Mill light and going into limp mode as a euro 4 would , sounds reasonable . Euro 3 will still log/store EGR problems but not cause any running problems .

I disconnected the air intake that connects to the "Y intake" and had a look at the butterfly in action during idle and found it only moved a small amount as Gally stated in the emulator thread but not enough to block the intake , pretty crude test but never the less informative ..

[Graeme]

For quite some time the vehicle has appeared to have overheating problems towing the van on long climbs, seeming to go into a low power mode which it may or may not have done but discovering the EGR DTC starts to explain the behaviour. No DTC occurs with normal driving so the valve must get sticky when hot.
Following-up on the possible connection between egr dtc and overheating, today my brother is hopeful that the mystery has been solved having found a damaged and apparently stuck open coolant bypass valve located in the thermostat housing which allowed a hefty percentage of hot coolant to bypass the radiator and go back into the engine - nothing to do with the egr dtc.

[rar110]

I’d like to remove the EGR and EGR coolant system completely. Especially with current EGR related faults coming up lately.

What’s EGR DTC?

[Graeme]

DTC - diagnostic trouble code.