Found this on my sump plug ID anyone?

[PhilipA]

I changed the oil on my D2 TD5 auto today.
I have stuck a high strength magnet to my sump plug and this was on it.
122729122730

It looks to be part of something with a diameter of 40MM or less.

I just thought now it could be part of my turbo drain which started to leak after I stretched it. (hope)

I had a look at the cam lobes and from what I could see they were all OK, although I didn't turn over the engine. I was replacing the rocker cover gasket which I hope was leaking and not the FPR.
The engine has never run better!
Any ideas?

Regards Philip A

[damienb]

That looks like a valve lip. Can't imagine it would be running well if that was the case though. Or how it could have made it to the sump.

Damien

[cjc_td5]

Is it a thread stripped off something?

[sierrafery]

If you find leaks around the cam cover gasket a new one might not cure things, for a good job you need 13 x new ERR7266 grommets then it will be dry like a bone.... as about that piece of metal i can't imagine anything

[justinc]

Could possibly be part of a helicoil? Maybe someone has helicoiled the sump plug thread at some point?

[PhilipA]

you need 13 x new ERR7266 grommets.
Thanks for that I was wondering how I might ID them!
Regards Philip A

[PLR]

Td5 Diagrams - Land Rover Workshop (https://www.landroverworkshop.com/diagrams/engine/td5)

G`day , don`t know if you have this type of thing .

[PhilipA]

Thanks for the exploded views.
I still cannot ID anything that it could be.
I have taken some better photos with an actual camera.122778122779122780
There are some things that I can pick up.

1It has been cracked for it appears a long time. There is only one tiny spot where the break is still shiny.
2It is hardened machined steel
3 It appears to be something that moves inside something else, as there is a polished area on the outside.

My first thought is that it could be a plunger inside the timing chain tensioner but the exploded views are too small to make an assessment.
I am not going to disassemble the entire engine to find it but if I can ID the part I can (maybe ) replace it.
Regards Philip A

I had a look at some images on Google but doesn't appear to be the tensioner plunger as it is solid on the external end and even if it is a rim at the other end the bit could not get out.

[rangieman]

So it looks to be cast iron ?
Could it be part of a conrod ? Hard to say with out something to gauge the size to [wink11]
Maybe take a photo next to say 20 cent coin as it might help to judge the size and culprit [thumbsupbig]

[BigJon]

Hard to say with out something to gauge the size to [wink11]
Maybe take a photo next to say 20 cent coin as it might help to judge the size and culprit [thumbsupbig]

You mean like in the first photos where it is sitting on a measuring tape? :tease::whistling:

[rangieman]

You mean like in the first photos where it is sitting on a measuring tape? :tease::whistling:
Yeah Yeah i know but i feel a object to compare it to would help[wink11]
Sorry i dont carry around a tape measure in my pocket but i do have a couple of 20 cents if thats all i have[bigwhistle]
Yeah its about 14 mm.

[bee utey]

If you use the camera flash and a coin for reference (to accurately gauge the inside diameter) it might help. I'm thinking someone may have broken an injector sometime in the past.

[PhilipA]

OK there you go!

122787

Regards Philip A

[PLR]

G`day ,

do you think the thickness has any relationship to a liner thickness ?

Any pics for me a usually awkward for me to decipher when so intricate .

In the second batch i think pic #1 holds the key .

[PhilipA]

Hmm, it's interesting isn't it.
The diameter appears to be less than about 40MM, which I estimated by holding it against a hose clamp.

I guess it could be a bit of liner that fractured during insertion and only now decided to part company.

Looking at the exploded view and images on Google I cannot think of anything else within the oiled part of the engine that it could be. Maybe a bit of hydraulic lifter but they look much smaller in diameter.

I guess time will tell, but the engine is going so well I am certainly not going to pull it apart looking! LOL.
Regards Philip A

[bee utey]

Harmonic balancer nose?

[PLR]

G`day ,

yes it is interesting , if it was a dirty old V8 it would be easier .


The other thing i saw while looking is that the little end , gudgeon has a replaceable bearing/bush .

The thickness could be similar but it`s not conclusive on the screen and i don`t know if they are coated or what material is used .

The part # ERR6978 , don`t know what factory uses , google will show that aftermarket are different colours and some look to be coated steel/iron don`t know .

edit .

Had a look in an online manual and the bush is steel and the pin is 30mm dia and the bush will have an OD of its thickness + the pin dia , not the 40

you have but getting close , even if it were , unless the sump was off one day and you had a borescope and some time to spend it would still be very

difficult and still no guarantee if the piece is from there that it would be seen .


I really enjoy the way the spacings for the Ads in threads make the thread read , maybe next time i look there will be an AD .

[PhilipA]

The part # ERR6978 , don`t know what factory uses , google will show that aftermarket are different colours and some look to be coated steel/iron don`t know .

Hmm, that could be it as the bearing looks to be at least bimetallic.!

AFAIK the engine has never been apart.

It looks like the con rod bearing has been fractured for a long time maybe on initial assembly.
The extra stresses of the remap may have finally caused it to give up the tiny bit holding it.

I just had a look at it under magnification and it does have an external lead in and a small internal lead in which would lead towards small end bearing shell as per the images on Google.

None of the bearing material has come with it AFAIK although it would not be captured by the magnetic plug.

I guess it could last forever or until tomorrow!
Jeez, and they are worth less than GBP 2 and could cost a motor..
Anybody seen an engine die from a little end bearing failing ie is it a known problem?
I will be very interested in the sump plug on future oil changes.

Regards Philip A
I am comforted by there being no references at all on Google on little end failure. Even the Mahle bearing failure pages only talk about a bent rod. I am pretty sure I don't have a bent rod as I have done 50KK in the car since purchase and never overheated, and the OE radiator is still good and all the hoses appeared to be those fitted from new when I changed them after buying it..

[rick130]

Anybody seen an engine die from a little end bearing failing ie is it a known problem?




I had the Tdi rods rebushed two years ago during a rebuild.
They are usually bronze.

The gudgeon needs to be almost a press fit, a tight push and these had started to develop play but you couldn't hear a knock.
Big ends shells were showing wear too and were only about 100,000km old.

At the time I put it down to too high combustion pressures from a combo of fuel and too much advance.

[Roverlord off road spares]

part of your piston ring?

[PhilipA]

part of your piston ring?
The diameter of the curve of the bit suggests that what it came from was less than 40MM in diameter so that would rule out a piston ring.
I am firming on a bit from the end of a small end bearing shell, that was damaged on being pressed in when the engine was built.
But thanks for the response Mario.
Regards Philip A

[cuppabillytea]

I think Chris was right and you seem to be coming to the same conclusion. It could have been in the sump from Day Dot.

[PhilipA]

It could have been in the sump from Day Dot.
I have had the sump off a few years ago to do the oil pump bolt and it wasn't there then.
I also fitted a strong magnet to the sump plug a few years ago.
I am pretty sure it arrived in the sump an the last 8KK since I last changed the oil.

The fracture mark is quite black and old except for a tiny bit at the end which is silver, so I think it has been sitting in place for yonks ( most probably since assembly) and just recently decided to part company, maybe from the big loads travelling up the Alpine Way towing a tonne.

Sigh , just goes to show what another poster said. They must have all been drunk when assembling the engines.
Hopefully I will never find out exactly where it came from as even if I dropped the sump , it would be impossible to see a conrod small end bearing.

Regards Philip A

[djam1]

I have had the sump off a few years ago to do the oil pump bolt and it wasn't there then.
I also fitted a strong magnet to the sump plug a few years ago.
I am pretty sure it arrived in the sump an the last 8KK since I last changed the oil. Or did it arrive on the sump plug in the last 8kk?

The fracture mark is quite black and old except for a tiny bit at the end which is silver, so I think it has been sitting in place for yonks ( most probably since assembly) and just recently decided to part company, maybe from the big loads travelling up the Alpine Way towing a tonne.

Sigh , just goes to show what another poster said. They must have all been drunk when assembling the engines.
Hopefully I will never find out exactly where it came from as even if I dropped the sump , it would be impossible to see a conrod small end bearing.

Regards Philip A

I don't envy you Phillip it could be nothing or it could be everything
Maybe someone dropped something into the engine
You could pull the sump and have a look but you might find nothing

[Vern]

May be the magnet is to strong and its pulling the engine to bits?😉😉

[Roverlord off road spares]

May be the magnet is to strong and its pulling the engine to bits?😉😉
I've heard you can get too strong a magnet and it can pull the guts out of a flux capacitor and also may the vanes of a Hiclone collapse, but mind you that's only what I have heard.

[rick130]

I've heard you can get too strong a magnet and it can pull the guts out of a flux capacitor and also may the vanes of a Hiclone collapse, but mind you that's only what I have heard.
Naa, the Flux Capacitor will demagnetise the magnet. ;)

You're probably right te the Hiclone though. :D

[Tins]

I was thinking maybe a piece of piston skirt, but 40 mm would rule that out. But 40 mm would seem way too big for a gudgeon as well. Big ends are 54mm, and little ends look to be less than half of that.

[PhilipA]

I was thinking maybe a piece of piston skirt, but 40 mm would rule that out. But 40 mm would seem way too big for a gudgeon as well. Big ends are 54mm, and little ends look to be less than half of that.

According to the images in Google the small end bearing is 30MM in diameter which is probably in the range of error if eyeballing the bit next to a hose clamp. It looks like about 30MM if you look at it next to the 20 cent piece.

I could not find anything else in the head or block that had a diameter that big, was metal , and had a "lead in" on the outside .

It should not have any effect on operation as if it is a small end bearing casing , the broken bit only impinges on the actual bearing shell by about 0.5-.075MM , by the marking on the inside. The thrust on these should be at 90 degrees so spread over the whole bearing surface with no leverage from side to side.
Regards Philip A

[Tins]

According to the images in Google the small end bearing is 30MM in diameter which is probably in the range of error if eyeballing the bit next to a hose clamp. It looks like about 30MM if you look at it next to the 20 cent piece.

I could not find anything else in the head or block that had a diameter that big, was metal , and had a "lead in" on the outside .

It should not have any effect on operation as if it is a small end bearing casing , the broken bit only impinges on the actual bearing shell by about 0.5-.075MM , by the marking on the inside. The thrust on these should be at 90 degrees so spread over the whole bearing surface with no leverage from side to side.
Regards Philip A

Fair enough. The 20 cent piece is 28.52 in diameter, so probably you are right. If it is a piece of gudgeon I'd be worried about the circlip. 🤞🤞🤞

[Tins]

Fair enough. The 20 cent piece is 28.52 in diameter, so probably you are right. If it is a piece of gudgeon I'd be worried about the circlip. 🤞🤞🤞


Thinking more about this, I guess you would have to be talking about the inside of the piston. Silly me.

[rangieman]

I think Chris was right and you seem to be coming to the same conclusion. It could have been in the sump from Day Dot.
So does this mean i can proceed to Go and Collect $200.00[wink11]

[Vern]

It wouldn't be a bit of the piston or conrod the gudgeon goes in?

[rangieman]

It wouldn't be a bit of the piston or conrod the gudgeon goes in?
This is the direction we might be heading[wink11]

[cuppabillytea]

So does this mean i can proceed to Go and Collect $200.00[wink11]


Do not pass go until you become an upper case I.

[Roverlord off road spares]

Well we won't know for sure until and autopsy is done on the engine

[PhilipA]

Well we won't know for sure until and autopsy is done on the engine
Which I hope is NEVER.
Regards Philip A