Faulty TD5 Oil Pump Bolt - Update

[MickS]

Further to my previous posts re. this faulty bolt. I had the vehicle inspected by Purnell Motors at Arncliffe, and the service manager has confirmed that the blown TD5 engine was as a direct result of the the bolt coming loose (no Loctite applied when the engine was built). Being that this is an identified fault by Land Rover, and that no blame can be apportioned to the owner, and given that several instances of this problem have occurred world wide, I contacted Land Rover Australia and asked why no recall has occurred, and will they foot the bill for a new engine. They have only offered to pay 50% of the parts only, which will leave me $9000 out of pocket! What a joke. I don't have that kind of money lying around.

So for those of you with 1999 TD5's (Disco or Defender), get it checked out to avoid the disgraceful situation which I now find myself.

This link may help:

http://www.landyonline.co.za/issues/td5_oilpump.htm

Mick

[Owen]

It would be worth digging up what you can on the subject and then go to consumer affairs in your state as well as the media (eg,a current affairs show) They love the battler, stck in the bush with kids and screwed over by a big company doing things on the cheeeeeep.

[loanrangie]

There is no way a new td5 will set you back $18k installed, new crate motors are only $5000 or so, didnt someone else here get theirs replaced under warranty for some reason ?

[MickS]

Owen, you have read my mind. Just this afternoon I sent off a complaint to the Dept of Fair Trading in NSW. I don't think I'm being unreasonable. If this had been a jumbo jet, and the bolt came loose and the jet crashed with no survivors, the airline would be taken to the cleaners. Luckily, after 3 hours stuck on the side of the road in 45 degree heat, H E L P arrived in the shape of the NRMA. Ruined the holiday though.

[MickS]

Loanrangie

Yeah it was Sith over in WA. All up, including labour, parts etc etc, the cost was:

Motor $14250
Labour $2200
Oil cooler and assorted hoses sundries $2230.

I'm spewing. I'd just whacked 4 new tyres and a dual battery in it prior to the holiday, plus rego & CPT plus an annual National Parks pass!!!

[one_iota]

MickS,

Sorry to hear the news so far. But keep plugging away. You have our sympathy and continued support.

It probably suggests that we should have a section for model specific issues so that we can access these readily. Useful for existing and prospective owners.

A search revealed this issue being raised here in 2004:

http://www.aulro.com/modules.php?name=Foru...mp+bolt&start=0 (http://www.aulro.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1198&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=oil+pump+bolt&start=0)

Too many issues, too much information and not enough time.
:roll:

[MickS]

Thanks mate. Here's the other thing, LR are happy to pay for a second hand TD5, supply & install.....??? As this is my first ever LR, I've not been left with a very good taste in my mouth. Anyone know what I should look for or avoid with a second hand donk? LR submarines taken as a given....

[one_iota]

There is always the golden rule:

"Never purchase the first of the new model...and always buy the last"

This regardless of the manufacturer. As Will Shakespeare wrote of Caliban the monster in the Tempest: "Sent into the world half made"

So that is the down side. The upside is that if you can get a recent engine with some sort of service record then you may be ahead or should I say less behind.

Worth pursuing on the side though... as a fall back position.

[MickS]

Thanks again mate. Just rang Land Rover in England. They tell me they pay a higher proportion, if not the full amount. Go figure.

[Owen]

Get something in writing from the Poms and add it to what you send to Fair trading.

[MickS]

Thx O, will do....

[abaddonxi]

Originally posted by one_iota

This regardless of the manufacturer. As Will Shakespeare wrote of Caliban the monster in the Tempest: "Sent into the world half made"



Kind of appropriate, seeing that Caliban was a cross between a witch and a demon.




It's a Land Rover thing.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Dimon

[Quiggers]

If this helps:

We once had a Land Rover dealer in Lismore, where, at the time a bloke I know worked as a mechanic. The dealer was John Chant Motors.

The mechanic (a former NRMA road service guy) told me of a story about Discovery diesels. This discussion was about five-six years ago and I remember it quite well.

While he worked there, he had to replace three diesels completely, under warranty, due to this problem you've described. He was aghast at the seemingly minor problem causing so much damage. He said 'how much do you think a job like this would cost?" I replied a guess at about $10,000 and he said $17,000!

Secondly, another person I know worked in admin at the same dealership, who had the opinion that all LRs 'were ****', no doubt, due to her ongoing processing of major warranty claims and the fact that so many LRs were in their garage for serious work.

If you need ammunition for your case, I can supply the name and contact of the mechanic and the admin person. While the evidence is technically anecdotal, it may be of some use. I'm sure an investigating lawyer would work wonders with what I've been told, which is enough for me to never buy a used LR diesel, I don't buy new. These donks sound worse than secondhand outboard motors.

Good luck and go get 'em!

Cheers, GQ

[MickS]

Quiggers

Thx mate, if you want to PM me with the details, it would be greatly appreciated.
Mick

[Quiggers]

I'll get in touch with the mechanic and the admin person, just to make sure they're okay, however, I think they would be helpful. Also, John Chant, who has retired from the car game, is the deputy mayor of Lismore City Council and may be useful as he was the boss of the dealership who had to deal with all the problems. But I don't know him personally, so that one's up to you.

Cheers, GQ

[MickS]

Thx mate, I just emailed John Chant. It will be interesting to see what he says.

[MickS]

Well, the verdict is in. Land Rover Customer Care (now that's an oxymoron) Australia, are only going to pay for 50% of a new motor, leaving me to come up with the balance of about $9000, or pay for a 2nd hand motor at $4500 and me having to pay labour of about $3000. They told me last Friday they would pay the full amount of the supply & labour of a 2nd hand motor. Also told me they'd look at the issue of recall or writing to possibly affected owners....

So far I'm or will shortly be, out of pocket $1200 in towing fees, $200 in mechanical inspections, $3000 for labour, and I have no idea what price you'd put on a ruined holiday, stuck on the side of the road for 3 hours in 45 degree heat and being without your car for 3 weeks and all the associated stress my missus and kids have gone through.

I'll now have to sell my new offroad trailer to pay for the labour. And I'll be damned sure of selling the "Disco" and going nippon.

[Owen]

Keep pestering them, but get the first offer in writing as this is a partial admission to fault. Dont EVER give up.

[tombraider]

Agreed, keep pushing, I'd seek legal recourse too... Get a lawyer onto it.

And as for going Nippon.... Good luck....

Join the suspension failing, Diesel exploding, Body shell cracking, CV and CW&P breaking brigade? Not me....

Try a GU with more cracks in the body and chassis than at a plumbers convention... Or a LC100 that tore the front suspension completely out on the CSR...

Or the fact that Toyota wont warranty a vehicle with ANY aftermarket suspension mods or accessories.

You've had a bad run, now take a deep breathe and persist, get a lawyer and get the evidence together and go for it... LRA will give in.

Cheers
Mike

[MickS]

Thanks for the half time chat guys, I needed it. Wasn't really serious about the Nippon thing....just letting off steam. I love my LR. Now I'm thinking Defender??

[tombraider]

Now... THATS a great idea :twisted:

[p38arover]

I wonder what luck V8 owners have had with getting engines replaced by LR or even some of the cost covered.

I've had to replace the motor in my P38A owing to the slipping liner syndrome. At the time I bought it, this problem wasn't widely known. Now it is and it would make me think twice about buying an early 4.0/4.6 V8 LR.


Ron

[Robbo]

Is this Problem in all the TD5's or just some of the earlier ones? :cry:

[MickS]

Robbo

I believe it's only a problem in some of the early TD5's i.e. 1999. Definitely in the discos, possibly also defenders, as they have the same motor, no doubt made in the same place. Have a look at this link:

http://www.landyonline.co.za/issues/td5_oilpump.htm

and this is the reply from the owner of that web site, after I emailed him about how I had the exact same problem:

"Hi Michael

Thanks for your mail, sorry to hear about your vehicle though. These vehicles were all assembled in the UK where someone didn't do what they were supposed to, hence the problem wherever the vehicles landed up."

So, the motor gets built in the UK, the apprentice doesn't put Loctite on a bolt like he is supposed to, the car comes to Oz on a boat, Mick buys it, we go on our Xmas holiday and on the 01/01/06, the engine shats itself. Priceless.

[MickS]

Ron

Not sure about that one. Since having this happen to me, I've done some research and found that the Trade Practices Act allows anyone to claim for personal injury or damage to private property resulting from a defect in the product. There is also the issue of "Merchantability". An implied warranty of merchantability is a warranty implied by law that if a merchant (meaning someone who makes an occupation of selling things i.e. Land Rover) sells something, that merchant is guaranteeing that the goods are reasonably fit for the general purpose for which they are so intended, regardless of any written warranty, unless the fault was divulged to the buyer at time of sale.

The fact that the engine was produced and was faulty at manufacture and the fault was not brought to the attention of the first buyer, and then myself as the second buyer, is evidence that the vehicle was not "fit for the general purpose for which they are so intended". i.e. the vehicle needed to have been of merchantable quality, fit for its purpose, and free from defects - this was obviously not the case.

Mick

[Quiggers]

Mick: You're on a track which has much evidence. I understand this rule to be: "This product does not work for the purposes of which it is intended." GQ

PM on the way re earlier.

[MickS]

Well, it just gets worse. No doubt someone from LR reads this forum, as LR Customer Care rang me back today and they have mysteriously reneged on their committment to pay for the 2nd hand motor. They rang Purnell Motors and ordered them to stop all work on it. Value of the car at the moment - $0.

I now have to pay for everything.

Thank you very much LR, you won, good on you, hope you're proud.

[incisor]

you need to remember this is a public forum and that sometimes it pays to keep your cards close to your chest until it is time to play your hand. The maddening crowd will always encourage a willing player.

sorry to hear your having a hard time.

[George130]

Sorry to hear your luck is going from bad to worse. If it is a definate manufacturing issue you might try consummer affairs and maybe Land Rover HQ again. Keep all correspondence and reference everything each time. Persistance sometimes helps.
Good luck

[MickS]

Feel completely gutted. My wife's in the bath crying her eyes out. My son's offered to sell his stuffed toys on ebay....kids, you gotta love them. Looks like 2006 is going to be a beauty.

[one_iota]

Mick,

Gutted is the natural reaction.

You have a PM from me. Prying eyes etc :wink:

[seqfisho]

Unless you had specifically agreed not to disguss this matter in a public forum then they have no right to withdraw their support.

If they think this publicity is bad they are mistaken, we all already know the issues with Land Rover and the quality of their customer care.

Perhaps a mention by one of the current affair programs of your situation may have them rethink their postion, although it should never come to that.

Seek individual legal advise, I'm sure it will work out in your favour at the end.

It certainly does leave a sour taste in your mouth, I had exactly the same issues with a new Holden once.

[MickS]

Thanks Glen, I am very quickly learning of their customer support.

You know the Queen and Prince Phillip drive/are driven in Land Rovers? I reckon if a bolt in the oil pump let fly whilst Phillip was doing the rounds of Windsor Castle, he'd have a brand new one sitting in the driveway before he could walk back. Things could be worse though. That's what I keep saying to myself.

[Quiggers]

Without prejudice and I don't care who reads this:

1. Mick, you're being stuffed around by a bunch of...not very nice people...to put it mildly...just get a lawyer who is versed in trade practice law. A lawyer needs clear evidence to build and state a case, producing or evidencing a precedent in a court. There are clear precedents for your case locally and globaly, therefore it is easy to produce a case where there is in the mind of a court, evidence in your favour 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.

If I were the presiding judge, which I'm not, LR would have to work mighty hard to discredit you and your Land Rover. They will no doubt try and discredit you but doing the same to one of their products could seen to be counterproductve, so they would attempt to say you did the damage, as opposed to the vehicle being inherently deficient from build, so as the hypothetical judge, did you do the damage?

I think I'm hearing you say you didn't. Therefore you need to show a case by precedent, whereby others have had a similar experience. (of whch ther is much documentary evidence and evidence of LR resolving the issue at no cost to owners. (Can I hear the shredders going at LR?, but victims tend to keep records).

A court will admiss 'contemporaneous extraction' which means a documentary record of something that happened as described at the time, such as a diary or a service record (of another 'victim' vehicle) or the (subpoena if necessary) records of a, or several repairers who fixed similar vehicles on behalf of Land Rover.

Print this out, use it and take it to a legal.


2: Having prepared your evidence a copy to the NSW dept of fair trading which would be more than interested in what's up thus far. and especially as the dealer has reneged on what was earlier stated, but this may be an issue, however.... you have demonstrated a decision 'under duress' (as has the dealer).

Much evidence exists re this fault, personally I'd run with it, but in the end the truth will out, Mick.

It is extraordinarily disappointing that the representatives of Land Rover in Australia behave in such an appalling manner.

Mick, don't lose heart, it took a whle for Richard Nixon to be nailed, but a year after Woodward and Bernstein started the case, said Nixon was on the way out.

Now find the missus, take a breath and work the problem and a solution.

Be procedural. Start at the beginning at write down everything, if you haven't already, (and of course you have). Every detail, every little detail, every one Mick.

Steps 3 and beyond are pursuant to steps 1 and 2, and are a PM.

Standing by.......


GQ

Typos are due to my use of a new keyboard which has a 'foreign feel'.

[Owen]

Seems like we have an attitude at LR that doesnt seem to like customers.....Make me think twice about updating this year. Nissan is looking better everyday. One of my mates copped a patrol with the exploding 3.0 motor, bought at auction, 115k on it (ex coppers) and it went at 140k and nissan replaced the motor, no arguments as it was a known problem. LR could learn a little here about doing the right thing.

[Frenchie]

You would think that if someone from LR is reading this...


YES YOU - LISTEN UP


It would be in their best interests to do the right thing, because there are a lot of existing and also potential future customers also reading this.

:evil: :evil: :evil:

[stevo]

and the rest of us who own early 99 disco's,keep at them and do not give
up, will this make it hard to sell this model disco unless you had proof that
it has been checked? something LR should be doing as it a known fault due to faulty workmanship!!

[JDNSW]

A bit off topic, but last year my son had problems with his Kia car (bought new) - he had a wheel fail due to cracking. Since it was out of warranty, I got a second hand one for him for $50. A couple of months later a rear wheel collapsed on a roundabout. He could not find a second hand one, had to get a new one for about $300 as he was coming to see me next weekend - when he got here I jacked it up and looked at the wheels closely and found another two cracked wheels. An internet search found that it was a known problem in the US, and they were about to have a recall. Calls to the selling dealer and Kia Australia were totally unhelpful, but after talking to consumer affairs, and NRMA Technical Service I talked to DOTARS in Canberra, who handle recalls - they knew all about it, and told me Kia did too and that Kia knew they would have to have a recall. Consumer affairs suggested trying my local dealer (by this time it was 3pm Friday) - Bingo! They advised me that if available in Sydney they would have two new wheels in Dubbo on the Monday and would supply and fit free of charge, which is what happened. It seems they had been through it with one of their own customers, and had found out who to talk to at Kia. Several months later, there was an actual recall and all five wheels were replaced, despite the fact that three were new replacements and one was a second hand one not from the suspect date range. It took about six months to get the $300 back from the dealer.
It seems not only Landrover has customer relation problems - although in this case the costs were lower and the safety implications a lot worse than in the oil pump bolt question, but they were still unhelpful. Again, part of the problem was the dealer, which also seems to be a Landrover problem. And guess who won't be buying any sort of car from that dealer again - but would consider buying from the Dubbo one, even another Kia!

[Robbo]

Never threaten legal action unless you are going to do it because if you do they won't speak to you again but instead just pass you off to there lawyers. Trust me they will have one ready to go. Best action is to keep your cool (no matter how hard). The best way to get some action is to hurt there sales. Now if this means bad word of mouth, you make sure you imply who you know and how bad press gets around three times as fast as good press. There are many forms of press media, you just have to think of which one is the best for you. If you have to, get the placcards out and sit on there door step. As long as you do it legally there is not a thing they can do about it. If you don't get any success with that then you ramp up and do it at the motor shows etc etc. Make sure that you let them know how much this has hurt not only you but your family and that you won't let it rest until you get what is fair. Good luck mate. Been through something similar, you will succeed but you must keep your head up. :wink:
P.S. you are exactly right, it could be a lot worse.

[teedeefive]

Dear all

I am the proud owner of a 11/99 HiCap Defender Td5 130. I read about the bolt problem some years ago and decided to wait a while...I have about 70K on the clock (used for bush work only). But after reading of the incident described recently re the family holiday I thought....well ' I could be in that situation too'.

Would it make sense to have a 'reputable mechanic' pull the sump off and check the offending bolt and loktite etc?? Any thoughts :?:
and how much??
Phil

Td5 130
SrsIII 88"
Darwin, NT

[teedeefive]

Dear all

I am the proud owner of a 11/99 HiCap Defender Td5 130. I read about the bolt problem some years ago and decided to wait a while...I have about 70K on the clock (used for bush work only). But after reading of the incident described recently re the family holiday I thought....well ' I could be in that situation too'.

Would it make sense to have a 'reputable mechanic' pull the sump off and check the offending bolt and loktite etc?? Any thoughts :?:
and how much??
Phil

Td5 130
SrsIII 88"
Darwin, NT

[George130]

If your not confident with doing it yourself I would enquire with your nearest Land Rover dealer about them doing it for free! Try the customer loyalty angle. If not get someone you trust to do it.

[barryj]

Originally posted by teedeefive
Dear all

I am the proud owner of a 11/99 HiCap Defender Td5 130. I read about the bolt problem some years ago and decided to wait a while...I have about 70K on the clock (used for bush work only). But after reading of the incident described recently re the family holiday I thought....well ' I could be in that situation too'.

Would it make sense to have a 'reputable mechanic' pull the sump off and check the offending bolt and loktite etc?? Any thoughts :?:
and how much??
Phil

Td5 130
SrsIII 88"
Darwin, NT

I had an estimate of $260 on my 2001 td5 Discovery from Southside Land Rover in 2004. I did not go ahead with it as it seems to happen to early td5's (1999) from what I read.

[teedeefive]

Thanx for the response....I might drop into the local LR d(st)ealer and try the loyalty angle tomorrow...and see what happens..

Cheers https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[MickS]

Mate, it would be worth your while. It only has to loosen off half a turn and she'll go. Mine had loosened off about 3 turns.

[Tusker]

I'd say take them on. This would fail any of the merchantable quality, or fitness for purpose tests in the Sale of Goods Act or the Trade Practices Act.

I had two major fights with LRA over warranty claims. I had my lawyers ready to go with specific performance claims in the Supreme Court - bypass all the small brains tribunals.

LRA caved in at the 11th hour both times.

Regards
Max P

[stevep]

I have a TD5 auto , compliance plate january '00. I have seen a date on the engine but can't remember where, but I think its sept' 99. I happy to spend $250 to get somebody to pull the sump off and locktite the bolt up & know for sure. I had my car for 2 years and its done 120000 klms and I have watched the problem on the net since I bought it, wondering what should I do, but this crap has made my mind up. The sump is coming off ASAP, better safe than sorry.

MIck - sorry that its happened to you but it is a warning to the rest of us to do something about it before its too late.

Steve

[barryj]

Originally posted by stevep
I have a TD5 auto , compliance plate january '00. I have seen a date on the engine but can't remember where, but I think its sept' 99. I happy to spend $250 to get somebody to pull the sump off and locktite the bolt up & know for sure. I had my car for 2 years and its done 120000 klms and I have watched the problem on the net since I bought it, wondering what should I do, but this crap has made my mind up. The sump is coming off ASAP, better safe than sorry.

MIck - sorry that its happened to you but it is a warning to the rest of us to do something about it before its too late.

Steve

Steve I agree with you 100%. A little spent now is good Insurance. From what I read your 120000km is getting close to when they seem to let go.

My 2001 is 106000km and I am a bit concerned. On my 110000 service I will ask what my mechanic (not stealer man, but ex stealer mechanic) has seen through his experience.

Barry

[MickS]

Yep, as much as this has hurt my family and I, both financially and depression wise, I hope that through my experience, others can benefit. Therefore have it checked so that you won't get burnt like we did.

[teedeefive]

Yep MickS

Thanx for th e alert and for the other comments. I am not at all interested in To*****a or the othet j** stuff. I'm off to my nearest LR mob....

Now if this was an AD on an aircraft I would do the same....no excuse for any of us!!

Thanx again

Phil
Darwin NT
40 knots of wind and still raining but the 'old series 3 keeps leaking and chuging...great technology I reckon.BFN

[MickS]

Refer him to the workshop manual......which states, in part -

"8. Clean oil pump drive sprocket retaining bolt
and apply Loctite 242 to bolt threads."

[CraigE]

Guy's,
I am quite confident on doing the job myself, how would you tell if it has actually been loctited or not? Or is it just a matter of pulling it off and loctiting it to make sure and re installing it. Will be ordering the sump gasket this week.
Mick, I feel really sorry for you but I believe that LR are just being a bunch of ******. I would be fairly reluctant to buy another LR now. It would be far easier for them to just replace it.
:cry: :cry:
Guy's, maybe we could do some sort of fundraising through the forum to help get Mick back on the road until this can be sorted with LR??
I am happy to kick in a few dollars and when Mick wins and gets re imbursed maybe the funds could be donated to a childrens hospital or something.
Just an idea, would probably need about 1000 members to kick in $15 ea. Even 500 members @ $10 still kicks in $5k to get it under way.
I am keen.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
Mick keep your chin up buddy

LAND ROVER AUSTRALIA take note, we know you read this forum and are keeping tabs on this thread. If you continue to treat your customers like this LR will have an even more limited future in Australia, we can and will through this forum and others effect your sales world wide, so be warned.
LRs current reputation in Australia is on the slide as it is, you should be seeking to make it better not worse. I am now on my 3rd Land Rover with 2 being purchased through our local dealership, at present there will not be a 3rd that was planned for the next 18 months and at present I can not recommend anyone buy a LR and I have demonstrated and recommended LR to many many people over the last 8 years. I know of at least 15 sales directly attributed to my reccomendations and possibly up to 20 more.
Nissan is looking better and better at least they replace their motors when they go bang through a known fault even out of warranty, without stressing and ruining peoples lives.
Thats my piece and I hope the arrogant ****** from LR Australia read this.

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

[p38arover]

Originally posted by CraigE
I am now on my 3rd Land Rover with 2 being purchased through our local dealership, at present there will not be a 3rd that was planned for the next 18 months and at present I can not recommend anyone buy a LR .....

I'm on my 4th LR (previously '83 and '86 Rangies), the current 1995 P38A Rangie, and a 1984 110 County.

After the failure of the P38A engine at 175,000km (having been limping along with slipped liners since 115,000km unbeknownst to me), I thought I'd never buy another Land Rover. In fact, when we bought the Forester for my wife, we had been seriously considering a Td5 Disco 2 for her. She really liked driving the D2.

I'm still not sure with what I'm going to replace the Range. I had been considering selling it and the County to buy a Defender. Now I'm not so sure. When I look at how well Nissan have supported the 3.0 diesel Patrol owners vs LR's support for P38A owners with stuffed V8 engines, the answer is pretty obvious.

Ron

[Jamo]

Hang in there Mick.

If you're happy to accept donations to fight your case, send me a PM with your postal address and I'll send you a cheque. This sort of thing really ****es me off!

Landrover needs to understand that the most effective marketing is word of mouth. LR doesn't have a very good reputation in the world and cases like yours are just going to make it worse. Everyday I have people coming up to me and asking me what the new D3 is like. And each and every one of them wants to know if it's broken down on me yet!.

I said it before and I'll say it again; whether the car has a fault or not is not the point (no car is fault proof). LR needs to grow up, accept fault and cough up.

Don't worry about anything you write on this forum, unless it's defamatory. Keep up the pressure from all angles.

[George130]

Yep keep the pressure up. We had a local car stereo place who treated their customers like this after they made the sale. Took 6 months from when we had a run in with them for them to go under. Found out that many people were not happy. I know that we ruined at least 5 sales the day we had a fight with them as we scared them out of the shop. I they are being unreasonable never step into the office but rant and rave in full view of as many customers as possible.
My father in law rang the cops over the local merc dealer due to their incompetence and then refusal to release the car unless he paid. He went right off in the show room and gave them 5 minutes to undo everything they had done and return it or he would report it stolen. 5 mins later while still arguing he rang the cops and did exactly what he threttened. lets the othr customers know what they are in for if they buy the product.

[stevep]

I am going to take off the sump today & have a look, I have to drive from Canberra to Adelaide on friday. I am not waiting for a dealer or a sump gasket to take it off, I see what the gasket is like before I put it back.

What is the torgue for the sump Bolts? dont have a manual yet.
Is there a diagram of the bolt tighening sequence? Can someone post it.

What would you do if the bolt is tight? do you undo, clean & apply lockitite or just leave it?

This is my 4th landrover - but no more.
Bought a 69 -2a in 1974 had it for 4 years, 72 RR for 10 years, then a 86RR for 10 years, now had the TD5 for 2 years.

the 72rr was the best, thought the 86 was bad for build quality, but the TD5 ****es me off - with its oil in the loom, oil pump bolt, & ABS, HDC & TC lights all coming on at once. F**k, all you do is worry about what next !!!!

anyway its off to buy some locktite.

Mick - happy to donate some $ to help, please PM your address.

regards

Steve

[Quiggers]

Notice something here?

1151 views of this post so far.

Donations and help...

Think you've really started a movement here, Mick, if you get my drift (and I'm sure you do)...

Keep going, obviously there are A LOT of individuals interested in your issue.

Cheers, GQ

[barryj]

Originally posted by Quiggers
Notice something here?

1151 views of this post so far.

Donations and help...

Think you've really started a movement here, Mick, if you get my drift (and I'm sure you do)...

Keep going, obviously there are A LOT of individuals interested in your issue.

Cheers, GQ

Yes, there sure are a lot of people getting to know what Land Rover do in situations like this.

The power of advertising is strong and one guy I worked for knew the power of word of mouth over paid advertising - still listening Land Rover marketing section? I wonder if they wish to comment and tell their side of the issue? I am sure we all would like to know their side. :?:

[MickS]

Guys

I am absolutely blown away by the responses that have been posted on this thread. None more so than the offers of financial assistance. Reminds me that we do live in the greatest country on Earth, populated by the greatest people. Thanks very very much.

Although the offers are very generous, and I thank you very much for them, I would be even happier that if you have some spare dosh, donate it to a worthy charity - something like the Starlight Foundation. I have no affiliation or connection with that organisation, but pulled this off their web site -

"In the next 12 months, 600,000 children will be hospitalised in Australia. Currently, Starlight's programs touch the lives of 200,000 seriously ill children and their families, providing much needed positive distraction. Many more children are in need of some Starlight magic. As Starlight receives no government funding, meeting this growing demand presents a major challenge.

Currently, 518* children with a critical, chronic or terminal illness are waiting for their Starlight wish, and 131* Starlight Fun Centres must be funded, before they can provide much-needed positive distraction to hospitalised children around Australia."

Like I've said before, whenever I think I've got it tough, go for a stroll through the wards of a childrens' hospital.

Once again thanks guys.

[Owen]

Hang in there Mick, LR light wake up one day....
I will be keeping this in mind before I place an order for the RRS. I am waiting for the update model first but WILL NOT be odering one if I dont see fair treatment in your case. The ML320 is a viable option if LR decide customers dont matter.

[incisor]

what am i missing here?

this is a 2nd hand 1999 td5 disco?

it is well out of warranty?

the oil pump bolt drops and it blows a motor?

it's a very well known problem, why wasnt it picked up by who ever inspected the vehicle before it was purchased ?

landrover offer to pay for a second hand motor and fitting of motor?

several posts on this forum indicate it may go further after the current work is done on the truck?

LRA see this and recind their offer of a second hand motor at no charge because of the forum posts that indicate that wont be the end of it?

what is it that you all expected them to do when they saw your posts?

why would they continue to supply a second hand motor and fitting free of charge when it has been publicly stated it may well go further?

it appears to me that LRA are on a hiding to nothing, between a rock and a hard place...

like i said at the top of the post, what am i missing?

[Owen]

Please dont take this the wrong way but it seems what you are missing is the way LR have dealt with this. An up front "yes we have ahad a problem with a few of these and will put in a similar age motor with the BOLT CHECKED free of charge, verry sorry sir" would have got everyone commenting that LR do care and are prepared to do the right thing.

I dont think people should have to fight for this. LR knew there was a problem and took a financial risk management decision not to recall all cars and fix them. Thats fine, its business but part of that decision should be an upfront call to sort things out for those with a problem without having to resort to the despair faced by a huge bill and subsequent emotional distress and poor decision making.

I would have much rather read about Micks crap holiday and how good LR were in the offer of a fix up straight away.

[feral]

$66 for the gasket.
$7 for the bolt.

Landrover Dealer = $200
Home mechanic with Rave CD = $Priceless


For all those owners of 1999 to say late 2000 model Td5.....

What would you do?


Cheers,
Lyndon.

[incisor]

Originally posted by Owen
I dont think people should have to fight for this.
fight for what?
they offered to replace it with a second hand engine free of charge...

[Owen]

I thankyou for having me go back over and read things more carefully. If the post reads well (page 2), then we all have done an injustice to Mick and LR by stirring things up. It is not fully clear and would appreciate a LR post as to the actual offer and micks response. It seems like poor communication and lack of context on the typed word could be a little problem here.

[CraigE]

LR still expected Mick to pay a fitting charge of $3k. That in itself is unreasonable to fix a problem they have caused. This is a known problem by LR that has had catastrophic effects on Micks motor. There should have been a recall on all suspected vehicles.
LR have recently been very lax to recall vehicles on the assumption not all will have the problem.
If LR had any decency they would pull their heads in and get it fixed. They would tehn recieve praise on this site not abuse. Anything posted on this site should be in-consequential as last time I looked freedom of speech was still guaranteed in Australia.
Nissan on the other hand have replaced every motor that I have heard of without a problem, even those well out of warranty.
LR have left themselves open as a huge target by not addressing known issues and the D3 looks like it is going to be another one.
I will be looking at mine and have already ordered the gasket but LR should be doing it as they have known about the problem for some time. If I had known about it prior to buying mine I would not have bought it without them inspecting and logging it in the book.
LR are at fault and should have just taken the bull by the horns and dropped in another motor, end of story and people would be singing their praises.
Being out of warranty only applies to unknown problems or problems that can not be attributed or known pre sale.
I have to give LR credit, I have not had any issues with them as of yet, but have not had any substantial warranty claims or failures yet either.
I would say Micks chances of getting a settlement are very very good if he takes them to court. Hopefully LR will see sense and reinstate the offer before it goes that far.
Mick is in a position that most of us could be in real easily, can not afford to fix it and can not afford not to fix it. $17k for a new motor, that is a joke.
And it seems in the UK they are fixing the problem without too much dramas after a television piece.
Incisor, I think you are wrong on this and as previously stated if it had been an aeroplane the damages would run into the millions.
It is blatently neglect by a LR technician. If I fail at my job through neglect, I can and would be charged and no doubt end up in a coroners court.

[tombraider]

Originally posted by CraigE
Nissan on the other hand have replaced every motor that I have heard of without a problem, even those well out of warranty.

There is a cut off date for this (and for the gearbox 5th gear issue) and Nissan has ceased this offer.

Now,

Whilst I feel Micks pain, man its gotta suck, I do also acknowledge that LRA has had very few incidents of this occuring in Australia, and as they cannot trace a set batch there is no point in a recall.

Loctite degrades over time, eventually that bolt will get loose regardless of now, or 2 years from now, it will loose its effectiveness over time and become prone again.

Our 1999 D2 is going strong, in fact it only had the injector loom issue 2 months ago (not bad, 5 1/2 years+ before we had an issue). I had them check the bolt on ours at the same time and it was loctited in so we re-did it and will do it again in 3-4 years time.

However, LRA cannot *really* be expected to repair a vehicle that is over 5 years old, non original owner. This is a 'good faith' issue really and whilst I would hope they would be more forthcoming they cant always be such.

As for the agressive "I wont be buying LR again" style posts I suggest everyone simmer down a notch :wink: how do you think the guys with busted cruisers, hiluxes, prados, GUs are all feeling when vehicles IN warranty are rejected claims for A/C failure, Broken diffs, struts, suspension tearing out. And they ARE in warranty....

LR offers one of the best warranties around. How many other companies sell a vehicle that they KNOW goes offroad, and you bust it... They fix it...
Break a diff through hard offroading, whose fault is it? Most likely yours, yet in warranty LR fix it.

Its an unfortunate situation here, but be realistic guys...
-The Nipon gear is decreasing in quality by the day....
-The LR stuff is getting better
-99/00 is now six years ago
-Get everything in writing immediately

Cheers
Mike

[tombraider]

Just a quick aside....

You gotta feel for the poor bugger I was chatting to at the LR dealer saturday.

His TDV6 fully specced D3 was in for repairs...

8000km on the clock....



(Scroll down)






Wife filled it with PULP :roll:
Then drove off.....


$22000.00 repair bill coming right up...

Serious :!:

[Quiggers]

being one of the stirrers, Ron, i understand exactly what you are saying.....but while I'm aware of this issue courtesy of friends in the business, Mick may not be...

so his car is ten years old, so what?

boeing is still in hot water over looms inside fuel tanks more than thirty years after they supplied said aircraft.

caveat emptor??? well mick did buy a 10 yo car, and was aparently unaware of a known fault.

as mentioned earlier, the used donk is okay but the $3k to install is not, in my opinion, it was an LR prob, that should have been fixed, long before mick bought his motor, more to the point its is only one of many issue that LR and many other manufacturers seem to be dodging. of course tere is good reason for this, to admit the (a, or, or any) fault is to be liable for all manner of litigation, genuine or ambit or otherwise or even malicious, which happens...


caveat emptor -

buyer beware - and this post of now 1300 viewers may prove as such, but Mick has really shown this type of issue is not exclusive to LR.
(Can I have a proper spare for a ML 320?)
cheers GQ

[CraigE]

I do agree that things degrade and thats fine, but if it has not been loctited in to start with that is just negligence, and should be fixed no matter what.
How hard would it really have been for LR to whip off the sumps during a major service and have a squiz to avoid this situation. I would gladly pay an extra $50 bucks for them to have a look and if it was not loctited they should wear the cost.
I only found out about this recently and will have my Defender sump off this week to check and re loctite. This is something that LR could have even suggested at servicing as a good idea to check. At least then people would have been warned.
There have been numerous cases in the UK so you would think the corresponding units sent to OZ would at least be recalled and checked.
If you are happy with an injector harness failure after 5 1/2 years that is fine, but I would not be as it is a known and common problem. Having said that I would be happy if they supplied another and I fitted it or paid for labour.
I do not mind things going wrong through wear and tear, abuse or owner neglect, but when it is faulty workmanship the manufacturer needs to take some responsability for the stupidity of their employees.
A new car should last at least 10 years without any problems, not just out of warranty as most do these days. Look at the old Rangies and Discos, most still going strong.
I understand Micks feelings and a lot of us just would not have the funds to replace an engine like that easily. Especially when it is, without a doubt negligence by LR technical and quality control.
I hope LR do come back to the table with at least the 2nd hand engine. I will not buy another if they do not.
LR in this day and age should at least be offering extended warranties by 3 years like Holden do. Worth the cost. Ours on the Commodore paid for itself in 2 claims.
At $17k for a new motor I would scrap the Fender selling the rest for parts and go buy something else, even though it would be painful not to buy another LR as I and most of us here love them.

[incisor]

there was no $3K bill involved for labour until after the forum messages started....

[CraigE]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Well, the verdict is in. Land Rover Customer Care (now that's an oxymoron) Australia, are only going to pay for 50% of a new motor, leaving me to come up with the balance of about $9000, or pay for a 2nd hand motor at $4500 and me having to pay labour of about $3000[/b][/quote]

Early part of the post.
When the second hand motor was offered.
Having said that, I would have taken the motor and fitted it myself or paid the fitting charge and fought it later.

[tombraider]

Originally posted by Quiggers
boeing is still in hot water over looms inside fuel tanks more than thirty years after they supplied said aircraft.

Apples and Oranges here! Aircraft exploding gets messy (deaths etc... are guaranteed) LR engines dying (although exceptions exist) are rarely fatal and in this instance not a guaranteed occurance, nor likely to cause injury or death. For a more topical subject see "Explorer + Firestone" that ones going to go a while!


Originally posted by Quiggers
it was an LR prob

So are failing DC joints, snapping axles etc.... When should LR stop paying for them?

VL Commodores cracked heads often, does Holden replace them foc?

LR knows theres a fault but its not measureable... How many failures have you actually heard of? 100? 100 from how many? 100 from 10000 ia only 1% of all TD5 sold.... Theres a recognisable rate they have to allow.

Hopefully LR will show some compassion however and replace his engine gratis? Perhaps a new engine + a fitting charge? Thats more than fair for a new donk!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>(Can I have a proper spare for a ML 320?)[/b][/quote]

Its only a softroader! How could this seriously be considered a 4wd vehicle, let alone compared to a RRS 8)

Cheers
Mike

[crump]

My opinion, warranties are not worth the paper there not written on.

[Quiggers]

Is this the same motor used by the ADF/SAS in the LR Perentie and derivatives, Mick?

standing by for your imminent reply....



GQ

[tombraider]

Originally posted by CraigE
If you are happy with an injector harness failure after 5 1/2 years that is fine, but I would not be as it is a known and common problem.

Look under the bonnet of any 2-3 yr old car and you'll see the looms degraded from heat.

The loom is inside the rocker cover, so Heat + Oil will degrade that harness regardless of age or otherwise. Its an inevitable occurance.

5+ years till incident is fine IMHO I mean its had new brake rotors/pads, new springs etc.... new shocks.....

And bearings repacked, why? They needed it/were worn out through use.

The bolt issue is different....

Less than 100 reports of it happening from my research (so far) equates to less than 0.25% failure rate for the TD5 engines oil pump bolt.

Now if your unfortunate to be the 0.25% then that plain out sucks arse :?
But the cost (millions) to check all the TD5s for a single bolt is just not going to happen, basic economics.


As for not buying another LR, your call. But why punish yourself for something like this :wink:

Oh and on warranty, I extended mine past its 3 yr through Landrover.

The D3 has 3yr/100,000.... A new RRS has 5yr/160,000km

cheers
Mike
(Devils advocate)

[tombraider]

Originally posted by Quiggers
Is this the same motor used by the ADF/SAS in the LR Perentie and derivatives, Mick?

standing by for your imminent reply....GQ

Me :?:

To the best of my knowledge the Perenties etc are Isuzu powered.
However, the new LR110 derivatives are delivered with a TD5 engine, yes.

Several TD5s were in Timor.

Cheers
Mike

[incisor]

Originally posted by CraigE
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Well, the verdict is in. Land Rover Customer Care (now that's an oxymoron) Australia, are only going to pay for 50% of a new motor, leaving me to come up with the balance of about $9000, or pay for a 2nd hand motor at $4500 and me having to pay labour of about $3000

Early part of the post.
When the second hand motor was offered.
Having said that, I would have taken the motor and fitted it myself or paid the fitting charge and fought it later.[/b][/quote]
have another look at the posts from the front page, all of them...

[Quiggers]

This is becoming a three act play, don't you think, Ron?

However, given the nature of the issue, as MD of LRA, I would have sorted Micks dramas and would have had a customer for life, and with 1300 people watching here to date, probably many more customers if handled correctly, this has been a PR disaster for LR. despite the advancing years of Micks motor..

It's only just gone 7 years, even Hyundai offer and have offered from around ten years ago 5 or 6 years warranties, i seem to recall. So if Mick had a Hyundai he'd only be, just past warranty.

But as I mentioned earlier - caveat emptor.

cheers GQ

[Jamo]

$3,000 to fit a motor??????

I'm in the wrong trade. Whats the labour cost $250 per hour???????? :? :?

[noddy]

Having just read the six pages of this post, I think there are lessons here for everyone.

Communication seems to be the biggest problem on everyone's behalf in this saga. LRA may have been able to cut this one off at the pass before it turned into a turd sandwich and and many members could have taken a cold shower without knowing all the information which is only privy to the two parties involved.

Personally, I have only ever had great support from LRA, especially on our recent trip around the country. While the dealers may have been indifferent, LRA were fantastic.

By the way Nissan were dragged kicking and screaming on the 3.0TD piston and gearbox issues. Even now there are still people driving around with time-bombs which Nissan Australia will not come to the party on...but that is another thread.

[MickS]

"Without Prejudice"

From what I can gather, this issue was first brought out into the public forum in April 2004. See this link

http://www.landyonline.co.za/issues/td5_oilpump.htm
http://www.amanet.co.uk/td5oilpumpfailure.htm

The only way to inspect the sprocket bolt is to take the sump off. I do not believe that would be a reasonable thing to do at time of pre purchase, especially as I bought it in Dec 2002, when this problem had not surfaced. It was obviously bad enough for the BBC to run a program on it in the UK. Does LR in th UK talk to LR in AU about such things? Who knows?

Unless there was a problem with the oil pump, there would be no need to access/inspect the bolt during the ordinary course of vehicle servicing, as, once again, the sump would have to come off. LR keep a database of LR owners. They had my details. If they had written to me and alerted me to it, I would have gladly paid the cost to have it checked.

The dept of transport & road safety states there would be no recall, as it is not a safety issue.

When this all occurred, nothing was ever received in writing from LR, despite a number of requests on my part. The only corro received was the offer of no assistance. In the end, they would not talk to me. Final conversation - "It's just business".

This all followed on the heels of our first holiday in 2 years. A cheap camping holiday over xmas/new year. I'd saved and bought a purpose built trailer to cart all my camping gear. Thought I had the best truck in the world to tow it. Long service leave was taken for the holiday. New years day, bang, car's dead. Stuck on the side of the road for 3 hours in 45 degree hea...blah blah blah who cares?

$1200+ in tows & mech inspections, only to find out the real reason for the problem....As stated on a previous post, LR UK have settled claims, AFTER this was highlighted on a BBC program, watched probably by millions, and with all the resultant bad publicity no doubt. The problem gets raised by me on this forum, initially under a post relating to "piston failure", post is read by about 1300 people (not sure if that includes repeat visits by the same person/s), and I get wiped.
I think I'm entitled to be a little ticked off....who wouldn't be? My cheap holiday has blown out over $10K.....I'm sure everyone here would be filthy.

Bottom line now is, I'm out $10K, the car's back on the road, sold my soul to the devil to pay for the repairs (I now owe the mother-in-law), and I will be selling the trailer and all the camping gear so I can pay her back some.
To top it all off, the iron caught fire last week, burnt the ironing board and a shirt, and since getting the car back, it's popped a horn button on the steering wheel - that's another $250.....

If nothing else, it has generated some lively debate between members of this forum, but hopefully also alerted others to a potential drama. One thing for sure though, the sun will rise tomorrow - and my missus will still be giving me the silent treatment.

Thanks for all the input and advice guys - every single post is appreciated. Over and out.

PS Three cheers to Purnell Motors - they were great.

[Quiggers]

I'm so very sorry this has been the outcome, Mick...

But what comes around goes around, and those going around should be very wary;

brown undies you unhelpful uncaring suppliers...karma happens...

GQ

[MickS]

Dear Administrator

After reviewing your comments "What am I missing here..." and making note of your referral to earlier sections of the forum on this topic.

There appears to be some misinterpretation and hopefully I can clarify this by outlining the issue at hand;

Mick S did not at any given time state he "would take it further" after LR provided an offer. The essential point is that LR provided a verbal offer, which was accepted (i.e. LR to pay for a 2nd hand motor, exclusive of labour costs). Mick S then in good faith, organised to have the 2nd hand motor fitted - LR then subsequently retracted their offer.

The point you are missing is that Mick S accepted the offer, with no intent to "take it further".

The fact that he undertook some "research" and armed himself with useful information is the prudent thing to do in a situation like this.

In doing so he should not be prejudiced by these activities, and his comments on this forum have been of a colloquial and general nature and were in no way intended to cause harm or damage to any recipients.

The term 'caveat emptor' has been used by subscribers throughout this topic, however there is another term LR should consider and that is 'quid pro quo' In light of this, LR should now stand by their offer of GOODWILL.

Kind regards

Mrs S

[incisor]

Originally posted by MickS
The point you are missing is that Mick S accepted the offer, with no intent to "take it further".
The fact that he undertook some "research" and armed himself with useful information is the prudent thing to do in a situation like this.

i am not missing any point, i just called it as i read it, and after you say you agreed to accept LRA's offer you were publicly acknowledging that you were pursuing the matter further, had contacted other arms of LR, and that pretty much shows you had intent to take it further IMHO and in LRA's obviously... acting in good faith is a two way street....

IF it really was this forum that had any influence on the situation at all.

it is pure assumption on your part, in the first place, that it did...

i dont speak for LRA in any way shape or form.... your having yourself on if you think i have any influence.

i was playing the devils advocate as i thought LRA were being harshly treated in that there was only one side of the story being told and the facts appeared to be getting further lost in the mire.

i personally thought their offer to virtually donate you a motor and fitting was extremely generous under the circumstances, but that is just my opinion, and obviously not yours as you were on the prowl for more info...

[teedeefive]

I phoned the newly created LR dealer in sunny Darwin and described the problem. The response was as expected, phoned LR Sydney and stated that 'they had heard of a few cases'.

I requested a quote and was told about $400 but to be confirmed. The final quote has now gone to over $500...something like this

Gasket: $69
Oil: $68
Labour: $440 (at $110 per hour!!)

All up $577

This may be expensive peace-of-mind but after reading all of the helpful posts it was time to act. Besides I am very happy with my LR and have been with the others over 30 years despite the inevitable teething problems which were always covered under warranty.

Bye

Phil

[barryj]

Originally posted by teedeefive
I phoned the newly created LR dealer in sunny Darwin and described the problem. The response was as expected, phoned LR Sydney and stated that 'they had heard of a few cases'.

I requested a quote and was told about $400 but to be confirmed. The final quote has now gone to over $500...something like this

Gasket: $69
Oil: $68
Labour: $440 (at $110 per hour!!)

All up $577

This may be expensive peace-of-mind but after reading all of the helpful posts it was time to act. Besides I am very happy with my LR and have been with the others over 30 years despite the inevitable teething problems which were always covered under warranty.

Bye

Phil

Phil,

Please let us know if they actually find/found any loctite on the bolt. This would help those of us who are left wondering what to do with ours.

By the way, what model and year is your LR?

[CraigE]

$110 per hour, what a rort!!!
At the most it should be $70 per hour and should not take any competent mechanic more than 2 hours maximum. They should not be charging you for standby time (loctite curing). I have had enough sumps off vehicles and it should not take anymore than about an hour, an hour and a half to undertake something like this. It will cost me about $110 to do mine when the gasket arrives. Will just mean the next oil change is about 1000kms early.
Glad to see you back on the road Mick S, I hope you get something back from LRA. If LRA could not be reasonablly expected to spend millions on a recall they should at least have put some away and expected to replace the damaged engines or at a minimum advise people to have it checked.
This is a sad sad issue and shows a significant lack of customer care. Fortuanately I have not seen this side of LRA yet, but have with a couple of other manufacturers.
Ultimately these big companies rely on the average person not being able to afford to pursue the matter.
LRAs position is undefensible and I can not understand some people sticking up from them without alternate agendas. The offer was made and should have been left at that. Mick is entitled as is everyone else to find out as much info as possible to help him out and LRA were unreasonable withdrawing their offer after making it.
I love my LRs, even their dodgy workmanship which becomes more apparent the more work I do on them, with nearly all aspects requiring some mods due to poor workmanship. One major incident like Micks and I would not buy another out of principal. Not the fact of the motor self destructing because of dodgy workmanship (and of this there is no doubt) but because of their lack of support for what was an inferior product.
$3k to fit an engine what a joke. An engine transplant should not take a workshop with qualfied and trained LR mechanics more than a day max.

[teedeefive]

My Defender is a 99 year model and has covered about 65k mostly 'off-road'.

I'll post once the job is done.

Yes, it is a rort, I get work done on aircraft cheaper than the price quoted...

Bye for now.

[Scouse]

Just to let you know:
Book time for the TD5 sump R&R is 1.90hrs.

I don't know how they can justify 4.00hrs for this job.

Oh, and $110/hr is about the going dealership rate - even more in Sydney if you include GST :oops: .

[CraigE]

So the dealers are making $60-$70 per hour over and above what they are paying their mechanics? That is a bloody con. Most mechanics earn between $30-$50 depending on their employer and experience. I know they have to pay them regardless of work, but to be ultimately be paying for hours not directly related to your vehicle is rubbish. Not saying that all mechanics or workshops are rip offs, I have found a few that do the right thing but there are a lot that do not.
On the upside at $110 per hour I have save d thousands in the last 5 years by doing my own work.
:roll: :roll:

[ak]

Hi all my name is Adrian and this is my first post. I am the proud owner of a 2001 Td5 Discovery. I have been reading these posts with great interest over the last couple of weeks and have also lost a little sleep.

Yesterday I phoned my Land Rover service department ( Trivett Land Rover in Sydney ) who I must add have been very good to me over the last few years. I raised this issue with the service manager thats a good bloke. He told me that he was aware of a few cars having this problem and to his understanding they were all 99 or early 2000 models, and they had all failed at low klm's. When I told him that I had heard just recently of some bolts failing on cars with over 100,000 klm's he was suprised.

He also said to perform the work correctly he would need to have the car over night as the locktite needed to set for more than 12 hours to ensure it was effective. So if any of you are going to have this work done better make sure the car is left to sit so the locktite can set. Sorry to add another element of worry to this issue but as I feel it is serious I thing we need all the info on this as we can get.

As for me with a Td5 with 106,000 klm's on the clock not sure whether to get the work done this week or wait till my 110,000 service. But thats just me a bit of a nervous nelly. Would be interested to know what some of you others are going to do.

Regards Adrian

[Fendi]

I did it...

Last year we had to repair an accident on my car.
In that turn we fixed the oil pump bolt again.

It was fix....

The car had at this moment almost 100.000 Km.


A friend of me told me, that he had a look at a couple of car on the bolt.
Every of these had been fix.

Then he opened his own car...

The bolt was loose...



So my opinion is, it&#96;s the work of 0,5 or 1 hour to open it and fix the bolt new.
Otherwise it might cost a little more...

[ak]

Fendi

Your friends car with the lose bolt what year model was it and how many klm's had it done?

Regards Adrian

[Fendi]

Originally posted by ak
Fendi

Your friends car with the lose bolt what year model was it and how many klm's had it done?

Regards Adrian

I&#96;m not sure, but I think it was an &#96;99
Km I don&#96;t know. But nothing did happen, cause he fixed the bolt aigain, before it could drop.

Here&#96;s the Story to the car...:

http://195.177.232.61/reifenpfaff/docs/mod...=view_album.php (http://195.177.232.61/reifenpfaff/docs/modules.php'set_albumName=album93&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php)

He also told me that the bolt Problem only happens to cars up to 120.000 Km. If it didn&#96;t hapen until that Km, it won&#96;t happen later, cause LR had taken some Loctite...

[wally]

I`m not sure, but I think it was an `99
Km I don`t know. But nothing did happen, cause he fixed the bolt aigain, before it could drop.

Here`s the Story to the car...:

http://195.177.232.61/reifenpfaff/docs/mod...=view_album.php (http://195.177.232.61/reifenpfaff/docs/modules.php'set_albumName=album93&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php)

He also told me that the bolt Problem only happens to cars up to 120.000 Km. If it didn`t hapen until that Km, it won`t happen later, cause LR had taken some Loctite...

Wrong. It just happened to mine at 150000km. Engine destroyed.

[tonto73]

Anyone heard of it happening to an 2003 TD5 yet ?? :o

[roly]

Yes you at LR Australia listen to to the people that keep you employed---------fix all your f--k ups at YOUR expence.-roly

[porgey]

Amost 2 years ago I pulled the sump on my 1999 d2 td5 and screwed the oil pump bolt out by hand whew!!! , the engine had just had it 160,000k service . Cheers George

[wilsonlew]

You've got me all worried now.My 5/2003 build D2 TD5 auto has 132,000ks and seems to be fine.It pulls a horse float of 1.5 tons plus a small horse so about 2.2t all up.Though the front prop shaft gave out last July and replaced under extended warranty with a/m one which 'gave out' in October causing play in the transfer case which was replaced out of warranty at $3000.
Couple of questions:- Should I have the oil pump bolt seen to? Presumably LR would have been onto the lack of Loctite and had it fixed on the prod line by then.
And - should the LT230 transfer case front output bearing to the fr prop shaft be strong enought to handle the float?Any known issues with this?
If so then please direct me to the relevant thread.
Regards

[Scouse]

Couple of questions:- Should I have the oil pump bolt seen to? Yes. For the sake of a couple of hours work to R&R the sump, it's definitely worth checking.

[alpick]

My 9/2000 Td5 did not have loktite on the oil pump bolt. It was not loose when checked but I fixed it anyway at 90k.

Anectdotally LR fixed this by 2001 builds but the only sure way is to pull it and check?

can anyone report on post 2000 models, did they have the locktite or not?

[5teve]

as far as i know.. my oct 2002 td5 disco didnt have loctite. It wasnt very loose but also wasnt tight. I will be geting the 2002 defender checked soon too.

Thanks

Steve