Puma starting issues, couple of them?

[newhue]

Hi, what do you think

2.4 puma, strong battery and cranks as should, fuel filter changed every 10K with LR spec castrol oil. 170K Km. Car when running, idles cleanly and runs as per should.

Start issue #1 car glows as per normal but when key turned nothing but silence. All lights stay on in dash cluster except glow plug which normally goes out anyway. Very random, I would say 5% of starts. Usually after car has run for 30 minutes from a cold start, then shut down for 5 minutes and attempted to restart. Like getting fuel on the way home from work. Issues has been around for 12 months.


Start issue #2 car cranks and nothing fires. This can happen for a 5 seconds on first attempt. Second attempt often there is a half fire before more cranking. Third attempt it starts as should and runs as should. Sometimes there is a 2 to 3lt puff of white smoke that dissipated quickly. I believe this is failing injector seals. No loss of power or performance when running.
Recent issue developed in the last week.

regards
Jason

[skidrov]

My first guess would be the ignition switch - just to confirm, you hear NOTHING when you turn to crank? No sound at all from the starter?

But if not that, will need wiser minds to jump in.

[tact]

My first guess would be the ignition switch - just to confirm, you hear NOTHING when you turn to crank? No sound at all from the starter?But if not that, will need wiser minds to jump in.

Plus 1 here. Had similar symptoms, was the ignition switch.

[tact]

Hi, what do you think

2.4 puma, strong battery and cranks as should, fuel filter changed every 10K with LR spec castrol oil. 170K Km. Car when running, idles cleanly and runs as per should.

Start issue #1 car glows as per normal but when key turned nothing but silence. All lights stay on in dash cluster except glow plug which normally goes out anyway. Very random, I would say 5% of starts. Usually after car has run for 30 minutes from a cold start, then shut down for 5 minutes and attempted to restart. Like getting fuel on the way home from work. Issues has been around for 12 months.

[...]

Your Issue #1 was exactly what I had experienced. Started random and infrequent. Then over a period of months became more frequent, to the point that every start would take a few goes. LR replaced the ignition switch - solved.

[1nando]

Ignition switch

[Tombie]

Issue 2 - I wouldn't worry about the smoke just yet... probably just a little extra fuel injected that needed to dissipate.

Issue 1 either Ignition barrel of 10AS

[newhue]

My first guess would be the ignition switch - just to confirm, you hear NOTHING when you turn to crank? No sound at all from the starter?

But if not that, will need wiser minds to jump in.

Yes not a sound.

[newhue]

Thanks lads

it always astounds me the speed and often uniformity of this forum. I have a story about LR that i wont bore you with, but speed, accuracy, and cost are not on their side.

I have learned the puff of smoke is unburnt fuel as you suggest tombie. Makes sense if the motor is cranking and no or not enough fuel is being deliverred. Issue #2 appears to be as randon as issue #1, as the car stated fine cold a couple times yesterday. Perhaps the fix is in the same ignition switch.

Is an ignition switch an easy plug in type affort, or do I need special tooling.

[travelrover]

I recently had the ignition switch on my Puma replaced. It had to be drilled out as apparently is fitted with anti-theft or some such bolts. They also coated in lock-tite just to make it easier. I would suggest taking to a reputable Land Rover mechanic. I had Ward at Graeme Coopers do the work in Sydney.

[skidrov]

The ignition lock/barrel assembly are the ones that need to be drilled out. If it's only the switch, it's not so bad - I've just done mine (thanks to those who gave pointers along the way). It's fiddly, but no special tools or shear bolt drilling.

Note that some cars did have the ignition lock/barrel stick - there's a service note on this - and then you DO need the lock replaced. Based on what you've described it sounds like it might only be the switch.

The switch can be original or aftermarket. In Melbourne, I was offered a Lucas one for about $90 or a pattern switch for about $40 (both excluding delivery). I've gone pattern.

Process:

- Disconnect battery.
- Remove upper column shroud.
- Remove instrument binnacle.
- The switch is at the end of the lock assembly, remove small screw retaining it.
- Note which wire goes where, remove the (probably) 4 wires on the switch assembly (tight work space, and that harness doesn't have much slack).
- Might need to lightly tap out the old switch - tabs protrude to allow this.
- Rinse and repeat, noting that it is fiddly to line the switch up in the correct spot, as it's a tight fit with limited work space - it has to go a certain way. Finally, I used blu-tac on the end of a screwdriver to refit the small screw so I didn't loose it.

My guesstimate is a 1 to 2 hour job, go to stop. Not the worst task.

[tact]

The ignition lock/barrel assembly are the ones that need to be drilled out. If it's only the switch, it's not so bad - I've just done mine (thanks to those who gave pointers along the way). It's fiddly, but no special tools or shear bolt drilling.
[...]


Mine was just the switch part replaced. Not the whole lock/barrel. Done by LR under warranty so no personal opinion on how hard it is to do. :)

[newhue]

Good work and thank you skidrov and tact. You have achieved what the dealer could not. Replaced starter switch as your direction and seems to have solved the problem of random intermittent silence when attempting to start. FYI this is my trucks 3 switch, so LR specified build quality is pretty ordinary personally. The rest is a long story.

Right, on to the next land rover issue....
#2 now, why does it now crank away lifeless randomly. At its leaser it starts strong and reliably. But increasing so, hot or cold, it cranks away with no emotion on the first attempt. Stop and have a second go and it starts as should.