Hot water system / heat exchanger shower

[DJL9999]

Time has come to sell the camp trailer and reduce down to only using on the D3 for camping, so I can get further into the bush :). So I was thinking of adding a Glind hot water system.. until the other day I was thinking it would be too hard to fit the unit in as there isn't much space left in the engine bay.. well until I was changing the oil and had the bash plates off and noticed all the coolant hoses and what looks like space to fit the unit... has anyone fitted a heat exchanger to a D3/D4? And if so does it work ok for a shower etc etc. ??and where they put it ?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/05/200.jpg

http://www.glind.com.au/store/heat-exchangers/automotive-heat-exchanger

[Redback]

Unfortunately the heat exchanger hot water devices wont work in the D2/D3/4/RRS/VOGUE because of how the cooling system works in these vehicles, the coolent never gets hot enough for longer to keep a constant flow of hot water for long periods(ie) a shower.

[DJL9999]

Unfortunately the heat exchanger hot water devices wont work in the D2/D3/4/RRS/VOGUE because of how the cooling system works in these vehicles, the coolent never gets hot enough for longer to keep a constant flow of hot water for long periods(ie) a shower.

Might have to wrap the exhaust system with some copper pipe maybe..?!

[Redback]

Might have to wrap the exhaust system with some copper pipe maybe..?!

Maybe, but I think your only option is a 12v shower device or a portable gas hot water device like the Coleman hot water on demand thingy.

OR this, cheaper than a glind too
HOTTAP | Portable Water Heater | Joolca


(https://www.joolca.com.au/hottap?gclid=CPqN_5jcjtQCFRgGKgodra4GRA)

[DJL9999]

Maybe, but I think your only option is a 12v shower device or a portable gas hot water device like the Coleman hot water on demand thingy.

OR this
HOTTAP | Portable Water Heater | Joolca (https://www.joolca.com.au/hottap?gclid=CPqN_5jcjtQCFRgGKgodra4GRA)

Yeah I have both already :) I want to reduce the equipment and crap I take to make room for other more important items. I can use the fire to heat water also but Id like hot water to sanitise hands etc while shooting mainly and to have a quick shower etc. I have a solar bag also but the exchanger seems to be a cool project, now all the more interesting.

[Redback]

Yeah I have both already :) I want to reduce the equipment and crap I take to make room for other more important items. I can use the fire to heat water also but Id like hot water to sanitise hands etc while shooting mainly and to have a quick shower etc. I have a solar bag also but the exchanger seems to be a cool project, now all the more interesting.

If you try let us know, I tried on our old TD5 D2, me and a mate spent all day setting up to no avail, we tried how his was set up(100 series cruiser) which worked perfect, tried to opposite, still not working well, it would produce hot water, but only for 30secs or so, then go luke warm, then cold and if you let it go for longer, after about 5 to 10mins it would get hot again then go luke warm then cold again all in less than a couple of minutes.

I would assume it would work this way in the D3/4 as well, I believe the cooling system works in a similar manner.

[ozscott]

It may work better in a d2 with a top hose inline thermostat...stable and simple temp and flow. They run cooler as that is the point but well hot enough for a shower. My brother had a blind on an old County...never seemed to be worth it unless showering shortly after using the vehicle otherwise took too long to heat up. Cheers

Cheers

[DJL9999]

It may work better in a d2 with a top hose inline thermostat...stable and simple temp and flow. They run cooler as that is the point but well hot enough for a shower. My brother had a blind on an old County...never seemed to be worth it unless showering shortly after using the vehicle otherwise took too long to heat up. Cheers

Cheers

Yeah I might test some temps with the laser just to see before I try it. I've got my thinking cap on for other ideas also.

[Redback]

Yeah I might test some temps with the laser just to see before I try it. I've got my thinking cap on for other ideas also.

The Amarok has a similar problem, but some of the guys on AusAmarok may have worked out a way by using the EGR system.


Did you know about water pump and heat exchanger?? (http://www.ausamarok.com.au/forum/showthread.php/4287-Did-you-know-about-water-pump-and-heat-exchanger)

[DJL9999]

The Amarok has a similar problem, but some of the guys on AusAmarok may have worked out a way by using the EGR system.


Did you know about water pump and heat exchanger?? (http://www.ausamarok.com.au/forum/showthread.php/4287-Did-you-know-about-water-pump-and-heat-exchanger)

I think I'll design a "muffler" style type insert (like a hotdog) to the exhaust system making sure not to disrupt flow etc. with copper tubes in it. I'm still yet to lazer temp some parts and time it to a suitable temp etc.

[DJL9999]

I think I'll design a "muffler" style type insert (like a hotdog) to the exhaust system making sure not to disrupt flow etc. with copper tubes in it. I'm still yet to lazer temp some parts and time it to a suitable temp etc.

126deg C from the main pipe , where there is a crap load of space, just before the big muffler box or cat whatever it is which it was 86deg. 74deg at the tip - after a quick 6min drive up the road and back. I think it will generate enough heat for a 38-40deg shower at a reasonable flow. I'd say I could get quite hot water from it slowing the flow rate down to wash hands etc.

After the rain dries up I'll get some copper pipe and give it a go.

[DJL9999]

126deg C from the main pipe , where there is a crap load of space, just before the big muffler box or cat whatever it is which it was 86deg. 74deg at the tip - after a quick 6min drive up the road and back. I think it will generate enough heat for a 38-40deg shower at a reasonable flow. I'd say I could get quite hot water from it slowing the flow rate down to wash hands etc.

After the rain dries up I'll get some copper pipe and give it a go.

Might be a few weeks on this one :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/05/94.jpg

[Redback]

Make sure you get the wind of the coil for the correct flow direction[bigwhistle]



Might be a few weeks on this one :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/05/94.jpg

[Russrobe]

Ah, hot showers would be priceless for winter. Hope you can make this work so I can copy it!
Nearly every stop we've been to has had some sort of water available even if not drinkable so i was just going to bring along a spare empty 20l water container and fill up on site.

[Pub247]

Even though its for a D1 im doing a setup on mates car using the item you pictured at start and i made a sill tank which will have water pump through the exchanger and has a thermostat so you can check temp. This means he can pre heat his water before pulling up and have 35liters of hot waterhttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/05/42.jpg

[Tombie]

Ok. Admire the initiative being displayed and the Blue sky thinking.

So, How do I put this without coming across as sounding negative.

- The D3/4 exhaust runs so cool beyond the Cat you won't be able to generate sufficient heat via a coil in 1, 2, 3 passes to make it Tepid let alone warm.

- Clamping copper to the exhaust will accelerate corrosion and failure of the exhaust

- weight of pump, heavy copper tubing, hoses, fittings etc will easily outweigh the weight of a portable unit. And you'll be stuck with it there all the time.

- bugs love warmth - you'll need to flush those pipes dry or bacteria will thrive.

- idling to attempt to produce heat will do nothing positive for your engine, rather it will glaze bores and dilute oil.

Something like an Aquacube, at 6.35kg plus a small bottle of LPG will see hundreds of showers, can be removed when not in camping mode and will not hasten the demise of the Engine or Exhaust.

Warm water is dangerous when it comes to bacteria, think the real bad stuff! So a tank is also not the best idea for warmed, then cooled, then reheated etc water.. especially not if you're planning to wash (and potentially end up ingesting) with it.

Apologies.....

[Tombie]

Here's a far more effective D3/4 option...

Source a Factory Webasto heater.....
Fit a pump...
Fit a switch...
Install fittings for suction and shower.

[DJL9999]

Ok. Admire the initiative being displayed and the Blue sky thinking.

So, How do I put this without coming across as sounding negative.

- The D3/4 exhaust runs so cool beyond the Cat you won't be able to generate sufficient heat via a coil in 1, 2, 3 passes to make it Tepid let alone warm.

- Clamping copper to the exhaust will accelerate corrosion and failure of the exhaust

- weight of pump, heavy copper tubing, hoses, fittings etc will easily outweigh the weight of a portable unit. And you'll be stuck with it there all the time.

- bugs love warmth - you'll need to flush those pipes dry or bacteria will thrive.

- idling to attempt to produce heat will do nothing positive for your engine, rather it will glaze bores and dilute oil.

Something like an Aquacube, at 6.35kg plus a small bottle of LPG will see hundreds of showers, can be removed when not in camping mode and will not hasten the demise of the Engine or Exhaust.

Warm water is dangerous when it comes to bacteria, think the real bad stuff! So a tank is also not the best idea for warmed, then cooled, then reheated etc water.. especially not if you're planning to wash (and potentially end up ingesting) with it.

Apologies.....

Some good points. The final one I do will be out of food grade stainless I think and a flange bolt in device ahead of the cat after testing etc with 10/12 copper wraps of 3/8 tube, but you've raised some interesting things to make sure I work around. The safety/heat pressure valve is the most important part I feel and I'm researching if it should be on the cold or hot side and where it vents to. Flushing out the system I do with the joolca and cube anyway now, as I'm all to away of 38-40deg bugs but generally speaking I'm hoping to pull 60deg+ and cool it with a mixer tap at the end like in the house etc. fair bit of work but time will tell :).

[Tombie]

I shall watch with interest [emoji41]

[Tombie]

Do some calculations also...
Flow rates...

10/12 wraps of 3/8" copper will have minimal contact area (coil on a pipe).
Also, be aware the area upstream of the Cat is very tight.. allow for several factors.
You'll need to lag it to keep the heat in!
With that will come corrosion challenges.

Flow rate is going to be a challenge - residence time in the pipe (approximately 1 mtr long) will need to absorb a notable amount of heat... a TDV6 at idle/no load is producing only around 160c at the exhaust.
As an example - it takes the entire engine capacity to heat the water inside to engine to enough to a sufficient level to crack the thermostat and under low load I've timed this at over 5 minutes driving gently in this weather.

You'll need to do a heat transfer calculation to understand what will be required to heat water from say 20c to 60c

Length of the pipe d = 100 cm,
Temperature difference T = 60oC - 20oC = 20oC,
Thermal Conductivity constant k = 0.0095778.

Use the formula:
Q = k ΔT/d

Note this only works for static (not flowing) and I'm not up to speed on how to add the flow into the equation.

You still need to seriously consider the repercussions to engine life - idling is never good. Attempting to warm water at zero load will be challenging.

[trout1105]

The 12V shower gizmo's with a pump on one end of a hose and a shower head on the other work rather well and are as cheap as chips, Combine this with a gas stove and a big pot ( You can use the same pot to boil Muddies in) and this will provide you with a good hot shower in no time at all.
These units are highly portable and can also be used as a bilge pump on a boat in an emergency as well [thumbsupbig]

[Strop]

I like this

H2OT - Roof top, pressurized, solar heated shower/sprayer using ABS pipe - YouTube (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dG2HK9JsAjw)

All the best

Laurie

[Redback]

For single vehicle camping I use one of these, these little pumps are amazing, far far better than those cheap 12v primus/companion shower thingys AND they last 20 times longer.


123963

[DiscoMick]

Yes, we've had one for ages and it is still working fine. I just can't justify the cost of the other units.

[Don 130]

I had a chat with the bloke from Dieselheat (http://www.dieselheat.com.au) at the Sydney caravan and camping show. he uses chinese made copies of the eberspacher unit, and says they are very reliable and better than webasto. They also carry all parts, but haven't had failure with one. I was looking at a space heating unit for our camper trailer. the prices seem reasonable to me. The water heating unit they make up is about 4 times the size of a space heater.
Don

[morgiemorganson]

Hey guys, new to the forum. G'day.

I had a Glind in my Prado 150 and was told the coolant would not get hot enough but it worked well. I would recirculate the water into a jerry can for 5 minutes while running the motor at high idle. This was the recommendation from the Glind guy.

I want to fit it to my new D4 and am hoping it is the same situation. However I cannot work out which of the hoses heading to the firewall to tap into. Does anyone know?

Cheers, Chris.

[Redback]

Hey guys, new to the forum. G'day.

I had a Glind in my Prado 150 and was told the coolant would not get hot enough but it worked well. I would recirculate the water into a jerry can for 5 minutes while running the motor at high idle. This was the recommendation from the Glind guy.

I want to fit it to my new D4 and am hoping it is the same situation. However I cannot work out which of the hoses heading to the firewall to tap into. Does anyone know?

Cheers, Chris.

Completely different cooling system to the Prado, for one you can't sustain a high idle in the D4 unless someone does it with their foot on the throttle and as I said on page one of this thread, the cooling system doesn't maintain a constant flow of hot coolant for long enough.

No ones been able to do it so far, so if you get it to work there will be a lot of guys here wanting to do their D4.

Oh and welcome to the forum.

[Tombie]

Welcome to the forum.. Redback has nailed it...

I’d also be very wary introducing Another metal into your cooling system!

Those Glind style showers are a good thing, except for the idling under no load issue.
I’d be very concerned longevity wise on idling for 30 min to just warm some water. It’s never good to have any engine just idling - it glazes bores, makes rings stick etc. this may not be a concern depending how long you want your vehicle or how hard you run it otherwise but worth consideration.

If you have rear AC you could look at plumbing it under vehicle.

[morgiemorganson]

Thanks for the replies.

In the prado I did have to hold the revs at around 1500rpm with a rock or stick, I would also run the heater on full heat with no fan to get the flow through the heater element. It only took 5 minutes to heat a 20lt jerry can.

I like the idea of tapping into the rear AC plumbing. That might be a hell of a lot easier to do. Now to find the piping! Always up for a challenge.

There was a guy on the D3 UK forum who got Ayres Automotive to fit one for him.

[Tombie]

Piping is drivers side rail IIRC...

[trout1105]

How does a copper pipe coiled around the exhaust pipe and recirculate the water until it is hot sound as a solution?

[austastar]

How does a copper pipe coiled around the exhaust pipe and recirculate the water until it is hot sound as a solution?
Hi,
A water tank down between the rails getting heat from the exhaust is a future project.
Insulated sides and top, bare copper on the base.
Possible air pressure for water extraction and the same line for venting when filling.
One day........

Cheers

[letherm]

Now to find the piping!

The lines also run through the offside rear wheel arch. There is a plastic liner over the front of the wheel arch and they sit behind that. You can probably trace them from there. FYI if you buy G.O.E. 18" Compomotive rims and fit larger tyres these lines sometimes have to be relocated - That's how I find out about the AC line location when I was researching the 18" rims. Gordon provides instructions on his web site (link attached) that mention this.

http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/a34e48_412339061ce4481bac513e52bcd03ff4.pdf

Martin