Intercooler upgrade only - worth it?

[Juz]

I have looked at the forum for a while now regarding the chip upgrades, but what would be the benefit of just fitting an upgraded intercooler (like bruce davis model).
the reason is obvious - i have a TD5 2003 Disco that lacks that bit of oomph, but i am wary of the chips due to the higher operating temps etc.
i could just add both, but don't want to spend a heap of dough (the usual story, i know!).
any advice?
cheers,
Juz https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[rick130]

well, a mate of mine used to work as a consultant to LRA before the Ford takeover. They had a Storm (TD5) engine on the dyno there that had the intercooler core doubled in thickness, and the boost tweaked up 1psi, no other mapping or fueling mods.
It was delivering 20% more power and torque. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Juz]

hi rick,
that sounds pretty impressive and what i am really looking for, so i will investigate a bit more.
thanks for the reply.
cheers,
Juz https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[p38arover]

What does Bruce's intercooler upgrade cost?

Ron

[seqfisho]

Originally posted by p38arover
What does Bruce's intercooler upgrade cost?

Ron


Probably Too much 8O 8O 8O https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[abaddonxi]

I'm guessing that there isn't a standard size for intercooler inlet/outlet pipes.

Does anyone know?

I read on ebay that 300tdi is 51mm.

Cheers
Simon

[crump]

MR Auto quoted me a couple of weeks ago around $1500 for the intercooler upgrade.

[johnv]

The is a guy in South Australia that also makes a larger intercooler. Don't know how much though. Its often referred to as the South Australian intercooler.

Other people may know about it

[crump]

Originally posted by johnv
The is a guy in South Australia that also makes a larger intercooler. Don't know how much though. Its often referred to as the South Australian intercooler.

Other people may know about it

Probably makes sense, if he refered to it as the NSW intercooler and lived in and sold them from Sth Aust. you might be a little bit doubtful of his credentials, as well as his sanity. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[cookiesa]

Looked at this for my 300 but was told by a couple of Landrover Specialists that on this engine (Mechanically injected) the best and most economical way for a power increase is getting the pump looked at. I have been told there is a Melbourne company who do this and you can expect around 20% increase for around $800-$1000

Not sure who but guessing Berrimah diesel or the like would be able to do this. Probably based more around fine tuning the settings and possibly injectors than anything.

Anyone heard of anyone in SA who they trust to do this sort of work? Would really just like to reduce the turbo lag, happy with mid and top end performance.

[tombraider]

Oh 8O My sanity is definately questionable :wink:

The "South Australian Intercooler" is the "Roverworks / Total Rover Tech" intercooler actually 8)

If your based in Melbourne I have 2 Disco and 2 Defender TD5 coolers there for sale, and a couple here in SA (Albeit stored down in Adelaide since I moved to Whyalla)

Power increase without chipping is marginal, except with a light 1-2psi boost increase it will pull better.
The engines do pull more linear when cooled better though and a mild ECU upgrade is definately recommended - Speak to Slunnie on this list.

We have the Defender and the Discovery Chipped and intercooled and they're both a dream to drive.

Cheers
Mike
0423 126 538 (after 6.00pm SA time)

[101RRS]

Any one done similar sorts of things to their diesel Freelanders?

The L series Diesel is a more advanced engine than the TD5 but is only tuned to about the equivalent level of a Defender TD5 ie power and torque per litre of engine size is about the same as the Defender TD5.

The Freelander TD4 is even more advanced and is tuned to a level just slightly better than a Discovery TD5 (accounting for engine size). Given the increases in power and torque available to the TD5, even better advances should be availble in the technologically more advanced but mildly tuned Freelander engines.

The L series is a slightly larger engine thanthe TD4 but is only single OHC vs the TD4 DOHC - likewise the TD4 runs higher boost - I suspect the intercoolers are the same though.

I know that DionM is running a Freelander - anyone else?

[hook]

Drive in Townsville
Then Drive in Vic
Just the cool air makes a diffrence, so I just waitiing for the funds
and a new intercooler willl be going in
300 TDi

[abaddonxi]

Originally posted by hook
Drive in Townsville
Then Drive in Vic
Just the cool air makes a diffrence, so I just waitiing for the funds
and a new intercooler willl be going in
300 TDi

I've also noticed the significant difference between winter/summer, although there seems to be a magic balance between turbo/engine/engine bay hotness and air intake coolness.

I had an idea that a forward facing snorkel might also make an impact.

Anyone noticed?

I had all kinds of schemes in my head until I decided that the easiest way to get the 130 to go faster was to get rid of the steel tray.


Just like the hotrods.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Cheers
Simon

[rick130]

IIRC, on my 300 Tdi, 18*C ambient, full load up a mountain pass after 2km, 4th gear, the intercooler outlet temp was something like 60* (approx 110*C inlet).
You want it as close to ambient as possible

[hiline]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>If your based in Melbourne I have 2 Disco and 2 Defender TD5 coolers there for sale, [/b][/quote]


how much for a the fender one https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[tombraider]

For the InterCoolers phone Range-Rov, ask for Alan.

http://www.range-rov.com.au

This works out easier and more economical than shipping from Whyalla all the time.

Cheers
Mike

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Originally posted by abaddonxi


I had an idea that a forward facing snorkel might also make an impact.


Cheers
Simon

world rally cars dont have them out front to save them from damage :wink:

[PhilipA]

Now I am no great expert on this, but I suggest that if you only have a problem with intercooler outlet temps on transients ie mountain passes etc, you may achieve the same thing as a bigger intercooler with an intercooler waterspray, and /or blower fan on the intercooler.

I suggest you have a look or join Autospeed as they have numerous articles on very high pressure watersprays and blower fans on intercoolers.
Before spending on a bigger intercooler maybe try the water spray and blower. It always seems to me there is a major problem with any intercooler say under high load on sand, in that the vehicle speed is not enough to give much cooling. In these circumstances logic suggests that more would be achieved with a fan and water spray.
This approach is a lot cheaper too!!!
regard sPhilip A

[abaddonxi]

Originally posted by Pedro_The_Swift+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pedro_The_Swift)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-abaddonxi


I had an idea that a forward facing snorkel might also make an impact.


Cheers
Simon

world rally cars dont have them out front to save them from damage :wink:[/b][/quote]

I meant a Safari style snorkel with a forward facing intake to create a bit of an air ram, instead of a snorkel with a rearward facing or round intake.

Simon

[rick130]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>you may achieve the same thing as a bigger intercooler with an intercooler waterspray, and /or blower fan on the intercooler. [/b][/quote]

actually considered that at the time, just never got around to fabbing anything up.... :roll:

Supposedly, when a certain Mr P. Brock set pole position at Bathurst in a Sierra some years ago, it was achieved by positioning the engine bay extinguisher nozzle pointing directly at the intercooler, and it was activated going up Mountain Straight. Very effective.

[wozzlegummich]

Has anyone tried one of PWR's "hotdog" air to water intercoolers?. They are supposed to be the ducks guts cause you can mount them much closer to the inlet manifold.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Originally posted by abaddonxi+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(abaddonxi)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by Pedro_The_Swift@
<!--QuoteBegin-abaddonxi


I had an idea that a forward facing snorkel might also make an impact.


Cheers
Simon

world rally cars dont have them out front to save them from damage :wink:

I meant a Safari style snorkel with a forward facing intake to create a bit of an air ram, instead of a snorkel with a rearward facing or round intake.

Simon[/b][/quote]

yea, Simon. I had this conversation with your mate Zook, who "convinced" me that no matter how fast you go, the engine will use whatever air is forced/sucked down the snorkle,, :?

[PhilipA]

Biggest problem I found with the scoop forward is that my filter element, (the old round one on my 3.9), got soaked in a heavy storm by the look of it when I checked later. It was all uneven.

This apparently doesn't hurt them a lot as in Seth Efrica they wash paper filters in the mining industry but I guess you could get to a point where it was blocked by water in continuous heavy rain.
So I turned my scoop around to face backwards. I think the position near the windscreen would be high pressure anyway, but I haven't checked with a pressure gauge.
Seems to make no difference on a petrol but may be different on a diesel. You still get nice cool air.

Regards Philip A

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Any paper element can be cleaned/washed,
its a financial decision based on replacement cost. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[wozzlegummich]

Originally posted by cookiesa
I have been told there is a Melbourne company who do this and you can expect around 20% increase for around $800-$1000

Who is it?

[disconut]

Originally posted by Pedro_The_Swift+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pedro_The_Swift)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by abaddonxi+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(abaddonxi)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Pedro_The_Swift@
<!--QuoteBegin-abaddonxi

I had an idea that a forward facing snorkel might also make an impact.
Cheers
Simon

world rally cars dont have them out front to save them from damage :wink:
I meant a Safari style snorkel with a forward facing intake to create a bit of an air ram, instead of a snorkel with a rearward facing or round intake.
Simon[/b][/quote]
yea, Simon. I had this conversation with your mate Zook, who "convinced" me that no matter how fast you go, the engine will use whatever air is forced/sucked down the snorkle,, :?[/b][/quote]

The turbo will ram more air into the engine than any snorkle. You need to increase the air density to gain more power, hence an effective intercooler is required. Whether it be larger, water sprayed, or whatever, cooling the air is paramount. The snorkle may give slightly cooler air? or cleaner air on a dusty track, but I don't think it will do anything else. There may be a slight advantage on non turbo engines.

Trev.

[rick130]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Has anyone tried one of PWR's "hotdog" air to water intercoolers?. They are supposed to be the ducks guts cause you can mount them much closer to the inlet manifold.[/b][/quote]

Bush65 over on Outerlimits has an ARE water/air intercooler for his 300 Tdi Rangie. The big advantage of a water/air intercooler is that you get maximum cooling at low speeds, right where a 4wd needs it offroad. There is some interreesting reading re intercoolers in general on ARE's website. http://www.are.com.au/index.htm

[abaddonxi]

Originally posted by disconut+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(disconut)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by Pedro_The_Swift+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pedro_The_Swift)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by abaddonxi
<!--QuoteBegin-Pedro_The_Swift@
<!--QuoteBegin-abaddonxi

I had an idea that a forward facing snorkel might also make an impact.
Cheers
Simon

world rally cars dont have them out front to save them from damage :wink:
I meant a Safari style snorkel with a forward facing intake to create a bit of an air ram, instead of a snorkel with a rearward facing or round intake.
Simon
yea, Simon. I had this conversation with your mate Zook, who "convinced" me that no matter how fast you go, the engine will use whatever air is forced/sucked down the snorkle,, :?[/b][/quote]

The turbo will ram more air into the engine than any snorkle. You need to increase the air density to gain more power, hence an effective intercooler is required. Whether it be larger, water sprayed, or whatever, cooling the air is paramount. The snorkle may give slightly cooler air? or cleaner air on a dusty track, but I don't think it will do anything else. There may be a slight advantage on non turbo engines.

Trev.[/b][/quote]


Now, I know stick about stick when it comes to this stuff, so feel free to tell me how wrong I am.

I'd have to imagine that if you move the air intake from the wing - where the best air flow advantage you're going to get is neutral - to any place in which the intake is facing forward, you are going to get more air entering your system. It wouldn't be anything in comparison to what the turbo spools up, but it has to be better than the system on Defenders as standard.

And it'll cost so much less than any other change to the turbo system that it is probably worth a go just on the off chance. Plus, who doesn't want another good excuse to buy a snorkel.

I'm a cheaparse and can't actually justify the snorkel, but for almost nothing I picked up a right side wing top vent thingy, same as they sell as a heater intake scoop. The wing top vent sits there doing nothing and 3" placcy fittings, a jigsaw and a bit of 3mm plywood or plastic should sort it all out.

Of course I haven't got to it yet, and if any of you already has, tell me if I shouldn't bother, but I thought it was a bloody good idea.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

cheers
Simon

[cookiesa]

Sorry not sure who. Possibly the Guys at Triumph Rover Spares in Lonsdale (South Australia) Could tell you. They have a site www.triumphroverspares.com.au

[rick130]

Simon, the amount of ram air effect from a forward facing snorkel is pretty minimal at the speeds we (legally) use, and is more than offset by the (very) poor design of the scoop and the ducting frictional losses from the snorkel.

On race cars, hours are spent in the wind tunnel trying to maximise these things, and they don't always get them right !