Buying a second hand 110 2.4 or 2.2?

[Jake93]

Hi guys,


Whilst I have done a few searches on here for the differences between the 2.4 and 2.2 puma's most posts seem to be quite old, more in line with when the 2.2 was released in 2012 and the changes when people were buying new.

As I am in the market for a 110 and in the current crop on carsales there doesn't seem to be any if at all price difference between the 2.2 and 2.4.

So, as a prospective buyer which is really the better one? if I'm really after the 2.2 will I be disappointed with the older 2.4?

Thanks,

[Landi]

I sold my 2.2 to a bloke who also had a 2.4, and he couldnt believe the difference in refinement. However i cant verify this myself.

On a side note, i sold my 2015 Puma to free up some cash and bought a beautiful 1998 300tdi which is honestly 90% the car the puma is for a fraction of the price. Might be worth having a look around and a drive of some td5's and tdi's, especially considering how high prices are for pumas at the moment

[DiscoMick]

Re. the engine difference I think it was only for emissions as they have the same power.

[TimNZ]

I've owned 4 "Puma's":

2015 - 2.2 110 Current car, Not bad, no mechanical problems, fit and finish on the body is a bit poor. 72,000k's
2013 - 2.2 110 By far the best out of the lot, not a single problem, good fit and finish, sold it early to "get one of the last ones" at 80,000k's
2010 - 2.4 110 Great car, no problems, good fit and finish. Sold at 110,000k's
1008 - 2.4 110 Sold early at 80,000k's (also changed dealers due to maintenance issues).

The only thing I believe the 2.4 had over the 2.2 was you could lean on the throttle at 100kph in 6th and it would pick up and go, the 2.2 not so much, however everywhere else the 2.2 feels better, more refined, and quiter. The 2.2 will romp along a t 110km/h 120km/h like it's nothing, the 2.4 felt like your were getting into it all the time. Fuel consumption on the 2.2 is marginally better, but not enough to worry about. The last 3 vehicles all had BAS tunes and aftermarket intercoolers, never had any problems, and would not be without the BAS tune.

Cheers,

[4wheeler]

I owned a 2007 2.4 which I sold then purchased a 2013 2.2 which has just completed an 8000 km run in under 3 weeks. I had a 3.2 Mazda in between these Defenders so my memory of power of the Defenders in direct comparison might be a little off.

My feeling is that the drivability of the 2.4 vs 2.2 seems similar. The 2.2 has the "rev hang" which you get used to but I find it more annoying than helpful. The engine sound deadening due to the changed engine cover on the 2.2 probably cuts engine noise a little over the 2.4.

While the 2.2 Defenders were supposed to have the so called "4 pin" P38 front differential many don't and I have found that mine has the weaker "2 pin" Rover front diff like the 2.4. I will have to swap that for an Ashcroft of Harrop diff. You can check visually by looking through the fill plug to see which one is fitted.

The panel fit on the 2.4 was better than my 2.2 but is not too bad. The dust sealing is a little better on the 2.2 due to different lower seals.

They both have lots and lots of hoses. The 2.4 and 2.2 have had problems with turbo and intercooler hoses with some fixes being introduced including some recall modifications on 2.2 to the hose assembly and bracket to reduce rubbing. I can see that coolant hoses can also rub through due to closeness to other components.

My 2.2 also came with a subwoofer bolted to the rear of the cubby box as standard. Seriously?

I will replace the standard hoses with silicone as they perform better than standard hoses, and am slowly upgrading the drive components.

Apart from similar warranty issues, at the start, both Defenders were/have been reliable. Some 2.2's needed oil pumps replaced due to faulty components of which mine was one within the VIN range.

I have a work Transit which has similar 2.4 engine which has just clocked 205,000 km. While there have been a few normal wear components replaced it has been reliable. Similar to other threads on this forum, the Transit has thrown up irregular fault codes since 130,000 km of various types and has had power loss at least 40 times, almost always related to power demand going up hills. This has improved since a leaking inlet manifold gasket was replaced. The Ford dealers basically have not much idea once it comes to electronics so I hope the 2.2 does not develop similar issues. Generally the Scangauge or Ultragauge OBD readers I have fitted to my vehicles always clear the faults from the system and off we go again. The OBD reader is a must have item in my opinion.

The last of the Defenders had the stability control in addition to traction control (dependent upon model). This causes confusion as some people are unclear of the difference between the two systems. From memory, the 2.4 traction control was more sensitive than my current 2.2 as it tended to operate more often than my current Defender. Stability control is obviously a positive for on-road use, but that limits you to the last and more expensive Defenders.

Similar confusion exists regarding DPF. To the best of my knowledge, Defenders destined to the Australian marker had no DPF fitted, only the standard catalytic converter. If there is no sensor exiting the exhaust manifold behind the turbo, it has a standard catalytic converter fitted. For mine, the is no difference in fuel consumption between the two vehicles. The later Defenders had a fuel lift pump built into the fuel tank while the early ones did not. This was a pain if you ran the Defender out of fuel. Possibly the EGR system on the later 2.2 is better than the older 2.4 but that depends on age and what EGR was fitted.

From my perspective, probably service and maintenance history is more important than what engine the Defender has. Also check the driver side rear panel (rear light panel). Many Defenders have the panel dented inwards as the door can swing wide which pushed the panel inward. More a cosmetic problem than anything else.

[DazzaTD5]

From working a lot on both the 2.4lt and 2.2lt TDCi (puma) there actually is a heaps of little stuff changed between them both, a lot i cant even remember, almost like there is some sort of actual R & D happening......

Some items are hit and miss, maybe a VIN change point rather than the 2.2lt onwards model thing. As an example some 2.2lt models have a engine oil cartridge rather than the more familiar spin on engine oil filter of the 2.2lt

The 2.2lt TDCi (Puma) has that the "older" 2.4lt TDCi (Puma) doesnt:
*Seemingly a clutch that doesnt **** itself. (so far or less prone)
*Lift fuel pump in the tank.
*Rpm holds between gears, momentarily (this is for better emissions, nothing else)
*Fuel tank one way valve routed to top behind filler neck.
*Intercooler hose on drivers side, bracket support.
*At some point the side passenger door stays have been extended to allow the door to open wider.
*130 models got traction control
*DEFENDER decal on bonnet replacing LAND ROVER decal.
*aprox 200mm rubber strip poorly stuck on inner top front guard by firewall.
*Different side mirrors.
*No corrosion issue on roof at bottom of alpine window seals.
*Different lower door seal


and the very last of the 2.2lt production run had.
*One piece rear axles and drive flanges.
*Adapter shaft splines (between gearbox and transfer case) lubed on production assembly.
*Stability control off switch.
*plastic caps on the front bumper.
*Last ones seems to have got a whole pile of freebie accessories (huh whats that build spec frank? ..... I dont know, just throw it all on, we arent making them anymore)


Its not confusing, EURO 4 SPEC.... NO Defender TDCi model in Australia are fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter).


Regards
Daz

P.S IMHO are the changes worth the extra totally insane prices of the last model, NO..... early 2007 models onwards can be had for round that 38K which I think is on the money for what they are worth.
(edited post: corrections in bold)

[4wheeler]

Hi Daz,
In my opinion some confusion does exist regarding the DPF as is evidenced by numerous threads on the forum asking if a DPF is fitted to the 2.2. Those owning one will know it does not have one and that is fine, but if you don't own one then it can be confusing. Even the manual supplied with my vehicle says it has one and obviously was not altered for the less stringent EURO 4 emissions in Australia.

To the best of my knowledge (and I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong) the traction control cannot be turned off. DSC on the 2015 on Defenders can be turned off via the switch on the dash but I don't think that turns off traction control.

My 2013 Defender has the cartridge filter and not the spin on as you have indicated. My 2007 had the cartridge as well.

[DazzaTD5]

4wheeler
You are indeed correct, button is as you say... a stability control off switch (have correct post)

People just need to either look up the requirements of EURO 4 emissions (google) OR do a search here on AULRO

The same questions about Defenders gets asked many times over when there is a wealth of info on AULRO
*DPF or not.
*Axles and drive flanges.
*Clunk clunk issue in drivetrain.

Regards
Daz

[Jake93]

Thankyou for all your responses guys,

My question was more directed at the differences in how 'civilised' they are to drive and what they sound like, which from the responses has mixed opinions anyway! It would appear that if I went down the 2.4 route, if I spent a bit of money on one of the engine insulation kits ect, it would make the 2 even more similar.

[DazzaTD5]

Thankyou for all your responses guys,

My question was more directed at the differences in how 'civilised' they are to drive and what they sound like, which from the responses has mixed opinions anyway! It would appear that if I went down the 2.4 route, if I spent a bit of money on one of the engine insulation kits ect, it would make the 2 even more similar.

civilised..... is not a word generally used about a Defender unless you have had Defenders before, then yes each newer model seems more "civilised".

Between the two, there really is no applicable noise, smooth, drive-ability difference, any 2007 model Defender TDCi (puma) will be a better vehicle (overall) than the previous model, you will have:
*a/c and heater that actually works.
*good clean modern practical dash layout.
*pretty respectable seating.
*good low range and better top end freeway driving.
*the quietest Defender model by far.

the down side is round half a dozen faults that the previous model didnt suffer, mostly driveline related.

Regards
Daz

[Tins]

civilised..... is not a word generally used about a Defender unless you have had Defenders before, then yes each newer model seems more "civilised".



Oh, I dunno... After my mates old Blitz a Deefer can seem positively refined....

[DiscoMick]

Pumas are certainly more refined to drive than previous Defenders. Six speeds lowers cruising engine revs. Spending a couple of hundred bucks on noise insulation can muffle the higher pitched noises. I just did my bonnet and will soon do the interior.

[ezyrama]

Civilised and Defender?, now there's a contradiction in terms [smilebigeye]. TBH, it's the best truck I have ever had, it puts a smile on my dial, every time I drive it, just buy one, you'll love it.[wink11] One of the best thing I did on my 2012 2.2ltr was to insulate the entire underside of the bonnet. I read an article somewhere that stated, 75% of cabin noise enters a Defender from under the bonnet and through the windscreen. The insulation made one heck of a difference and the 3mm bitumen insulation I put under the floor mats worked a treat also. I also lined the load area and under the back seat with a roll of 10mm sticky backed rubber I use at work. I have had a few other Fender drivers comment on how quiet mine is.

[bent]

I sold my 2.2 to a bloke who also had a 2.4, and he couldnt believe the difference in refinement. However i cant verify this myself.

On a side note, i sold my 2015 Puma to free up some cash and bought a beautiful 1998 300tdi which is honestly 90% the car the puma is for a fraction of the price. Might be worth having a look around and a drive of some td5's and tdi's, especially considering how high prices are for pumas at the moment

Interesting. I have a MY13 Defer which I am thinking of selling and replacing with a 300tdi or TD5 130 to free some cash. Not sure about going back to a 300tdi though, quite like the comparative enthusiasm of the 2.2 and lower cabin noises.

[Jake93]

Interesting. I have a MY13 Defer which I am thinking of selling and replacing with a 300tdi or TD5 130 to free some cash. Not sure about going back to a 300tdi though, quite like the comparative enthusiasm of the 2.2 and lower cabin noises.


If you're serious about selling send me a PM mate.