Electric Seats - have I done something dumb?

[Classic88]

Hello All,

I recently sourced a full set of good condition leather seats for my 1988 Classic Highline.

My car has manual seats, the replacements are electric. I assumed that wiring them in would be a fairly simple job for an auto-electrician (I can't quite get my head around electrickery and wiring) but having looked around on Google for advice, it seems that it may be a hell of a job for the driver's seat because of the memory function.

I was wondering whether anyone had tackled this and might have some advice - can the memory elements simply be bypassed and the switches hardwired to the motors? Should I try and find a passenger side switch (minus the memory) and fit it to the driver's side? Or would it simply be easier to swap the covers and put the leather on the existing manual seats currently in the car? I do prefer electric seats for their greater adjustment control.

TIA!

[DieselLSE]

Hello All,

I recently sourced a full set of good condition leather seats for my 1988 Classic Highline.

My car has manual seats, the replacements are electric. I assumed that wiring them in would be a fairly simple job for an auto-electrician (I can't quite get my head around electrickery and wiring) but having looked around on Google for advice, it seems that it may be a hell of a job for the driver's seat because of the memory function.

I was wondering whether anyone had tackled this and might have some advice - can the memory elements simply be bypassed and the switches hardwired to the motors? Should I try and find a passenger side switch (minus the memory) and fit it to the driver's side? Or would it simply be easier to swap the covers and put the leather on the existing manual seats currently in the car? I do prefer electric seats for their greater adjustment control.

TIA!

Assuming you also have all the wiring and the memory module, then I can see no reason why you couldn't wire them in. IIRC, the memory does not function if the car is moving (although you can make seat adjustments, of course). So, presumably, there is a feed from the fuel injection computer and perhaps somewhere else, like ABS module if you need to have the brake pedal pressed at the same time. I'll look through the manuals and work it out for you. But I would have thought that all you need is a fused power supply and a bit of soldering up new connectors.
Do you know which model year your donor seats are from?

[Classic88]

Assuming you also have all the wiring and the memory module, then I can see no reason why you couldn't wire them in. IIRC, the memory does not function if the car is moving (although you can make seat adjustments, of course). So, presumably, there is a feed from the fuel injection computer and perhaps somewhere else, like ABS module if you need to have the brake pedal pressed at the same time. I'll look through the manuals and work it out for you. But I would have thought that all you need is a fused power supply and a bit of soldering up new connectors.
Do you know which model year your donor seats are from?

Thanks DieselLSE. As I understand it, because my car was a non-electric seat car, it lacks the seat memory module/Body Control Module and so the driver's seat can't simply be wired in without a lot of relays etc which sounds like it will cost a lot more in labour than it is worth. I have tracked down a wiring diagram for doing this but I am really not electrically-minded/confident enough to tackle myself unfortunately.

Mine is a non-ABS model so I am guessing it has a less sophisticated ECU. I am wondering whether locating a non-memory driver's seat switch and associated wiring harness might be a workround as then it should be able to be wired straight in in the same way as the passenger's seat apparently can be.

[DieselLSE]

The classic didn't have a body control module as such. All you will need is the seat memory control and the wiring looms. You're bound to find these on a wreck or from someone on this forum. I'll be selling my seats soon Sad Demise of an Exceptionally Good LSE (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/classic-range-rover/248132-sad-demise-exceptionally-good-lse.html) and if the buyer doesn't need the memory control module and wiring then you can have them.

[Classic88]

The classic didn't have a body control module as such. All you will need is the seat memory control and the wiring looms. You're bound to find these on a wreck or from someone on this forum. I'll be selling my seats soon Sad Demise of an Exceptionally Good LSE (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/classic-range-rover/248132-sad-demise-exceptionally-good-lse.html) and if the buyer doesn't need the memory control module and wiring then you can have them.

Thank you very much. Let me know what your buyer says. Or I could make you an offer in the meantime.

[gavinwibrow]

The classic didn't have a body control module as such. All you will need is the seat memory control and the wiring looms. You're bound to find these on a wreck or from someone on this forum. I'll be selling my seats soon Sad Demise of an Exceptionally Good LSE (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/classic-range-rover/248132-sad-demise-exceptionally-good-lse.html) and if the buyer doesn't need the memory control module and wiring then you can have them.

If not too concerned about the memory function (for both the seats and the electric mirrors if you have those too), you could just set up for seat adjustment via stand alone switches. I've elected to separate out the mirrors on mine and they are now operated via a d2 electric mirrors switchgear.

Now to get my seats electrical adjustment working properly! My prior electrical guru pulled out much of the wiring looking for a connection fault, then used unmarked white wires to play with connection options, then had a stroke and had to close down his business. An acquaintance of his (mechanic) is currently trying to put it all back together, without the benefit of coded wiring looms or loosing the EAS functionality etc.

[Vern]

Gavin, do you have any more info on the d2 mirror switchgear? I need to get my mirrors going again on my lse

[Classic88]

If not too concerned about the memory function (for both the seats and the electric mirrors if you have those too), you could just set up for seat adjustment via stand alone switches. I've elected to separate out the mirrors on mine and they are now operated via a d2 electric mirrors switchgear.

Now to get my seats electrical adjustment working properly! My prior electrical guru pulled out much of the wiring looking for a connection fault, then used unmarked white wires to play with connection options, then had a stroke and had to close down his business. An acquaintance of his (mechanic) is currently trying to put it all back together, without the benefit of coded wiring looms or loosing the EAS functionality etc.

Thanks for the advice. I am considering trying to track down a non-memory switch and wiring in the hopes that that might be more of a 'plug and play' option. For the time being I may put the seats in and just adjust them by applying current directly to the motors so they are set where I want them. The missus can't drive manual so the driver's seat doesn't need moving. Would be nicer to have them fully functioning though!

[Baggy]

Hi All,

I'm going the other way and will convert my 91 Vogue SE to manual seats.
I've picked up a set from reasonable Rangie manual seats in a light tan .... mine are chocolate brown and will re stain them to suit .... one of the many things on my list to do [bighmmm]
My current my seats are missing the switches that were placed stupidly next to the seats.

I've researched trying to buy them but they are rediculously expensive if you can find them new and second hand ones off a wrecked Rangie I been told I'd have
more chance of picking the 6 winning lotto numbers.

Ive also been told that the switches were also used on Volvo's but I'm unsure of the model and I've not seen anything that remotely matches them on ebay.

Others have also posted on this Forum that in most cases the small battery housed in the computer circuit board (for memory) leaks and damages the circuit board
in most instances.

Replacement batterys can be purchased (ebay) and research on this Forum is worth a look Classic88 if you want to head down that path.
For me 25 year + electrics arnt the most reliable but I understand people wanting to keep thier classic original .....I'm normally one of them.
Gavin - we need to do a meet up ..... my opologies as Scouting takes up a lot of my spare time ..... your wheel sensors and wheels are still on the rolling chassis [bigsmile1]

Happy to meet at your mechanic anytime and he can check the wiring in my Rangie which I believe its all original and may be able to compare the colour coding on
mine to yours if that will assist him and you.

I don't believe I have any power to them and like Classis88 I'm not the best with electrical wiring in any shape for form hence my prefrence to go manual.

That being said I did get all my windows running and operational ....but that was more good luck than actual competence.

Cheers

Baggy

[gavinwibrow]

Gavin, do you have any more info on the d2 mirror switchgear? I need to get my mirrors going again on my lse

I'm no expert, but apparently you need the extra pin on the D2 switch, then connect mirror motors to the D2 plug and all is well. Mine is in and working a la D2.

I don't have the car at home yet - wot its now been 18 months away!!!! but happy to get a photo, and also to ask the replacement mechanic if he knows how the electrics were done.

[gavinwibrow]

Hi All,

I'm going the other way and will convert my 91 Vogue SE to manual seats.
I've picked up a set from reasonable Rangie manual seats in a light tan .... mine are chocolate brown and will re stain them to suit .... one of the many things on my list to do [bighmmm]
My current my seats are missing the switches that were placed stupidly next to the seats.

I've researched trying to buy them but they are rediculously expensive if you can find them new and second hand ones off a wrecked Rangie I been told I'd have
more chance of picking the 6 winning lotto numbers.

Ive also been told that the switches were also used on Volvo's but I'm unsure of the model and I've not seen anything that remotely matches them on ebay.

Others have also posted on this Forum that in most cases the small battery housed in the computer circuit board (for memory) leaks and damages the circuit board
in most instances.

Replacement batterys can be purchased (ebay) and research on this Forum is worth a look Classic88 if you want to head down that path.
For me 25 year + electrics arnt the most reliable but I understand people wanting to keep thier classic original .....I'm normally one of them.
Gavin - we need to do a meet up ..... my opologies as Scouting takes up a lot of my spare time ..... your wheel sensors and wheels are still on the rolling chassis [bigsmile1]

Happy to meet at your mechanic anytime and he can check the wiring in my Rangie which I believe its all original and may be able to compare the colour coding on
mine to yours if that will assist him and you.

I don't believe I have any power to them and like Classis88 I'm not the best with electrical wiring in any shape for form hence my prefrence to go manual.

That being said I did get all my windows running and operational ....but that was more good luck than actual competence.

Cheers

Baggy




Cheers mate for the offer - will cogitate and discuss with mechanic in Myaree.

For general info and for you and Classic88, superquag has mentioned several times that there are Mercedes switches for the seats that work very well, and available at reasonable prices. I'm not sure if that was new or used pricing, but will ask him when he returns from overseas in about 3 weeks.

I "think" all my electrics including memory hardware was operational if anyone wants any bits that I don't need for manual switchgear without memory electrical operation.

I agree the RRC electric seat switch positioning was madness, and even though I've hear rumours that putting the switchgear between/under your feet is a no no, that's the way I intend to be going, unless (albeit I doubt it) they can be located on the lower section parallel to the doors. Ain't rangies fun. cheers

PS - to comment on your heading, if it is a simple exercise to retain electrically operated seats, albeit by suitably located manual switchgear, I'd be inclined to try and keep it.

[Classic88]

Cheers mate for the offer - will cogitate and discuss with mechanic in Myaree.

For general info and for you and Classic88, superquag has mentioned several times that there are Mercedes switches for the seats that work very well, and available at reasonable prices. I'm not sure if that was new or used pricing, but will ask him when he returns from overseas in about 3 weeks.

I "think" all my electrics including memory hardware was operational if anyone wants any bits that I don't need for manual switchgear without memory electrical operation.

I agree the RRC electric seat switch positioning was madness, and even though I've hear rumours that putting the switchgear between/under your feet is a no no, that's the way I intend to be going, unless (albeit I doubt it) they can be located on the lower section parallel to the doors. Ain't rangies fun. cheers

PS - to comment on your heading, if it is a simple exercise to retain electrically operated seats, albeit by suitably located manual switchgear, I'd be inclined to try and keep it.

Hi Gavin, my research indicated that electric seat switches from the W124 Mercedes is an almost direct replacement but I can't seem to find any with the wiring harness attached. Shame you're on the other side of the country or you could have my manual seats in exchange for your wiring bits! :)

[Mercguy]

Hi Gavin, my research indicated that electric seat switches from the W124 Mercedes is an almost direct replacement but I can't seem to find any with the wiring harness attached. Shame you're on the other side of the country or you could have my manual seats in exchange for your wiring bits! :)


The wiring harness is never 'attached' to the door controller in a Mercedes. they are plugged in with special plugs, designed to prevent incorrect assembly / connection..
The harness will run from the doors, under the seat carpet to the seat and also to the separate independent door switches in a mercedes (you will see two door switches on these optioned vehicles) . The seat power feed is independent of the ignition, and is relay activated, when the door is open (with ign off) or when the doors are closed and ign switch is in 'run' (position 2, with running engine) The Mercedes relays are extremely heavy duty. They are not like the plastic case bosch / hella crap. they are 30 & 40A rated metal housed, with special pin connectors (silver plated).
The actual seat memory module is under the drivers seat for single-memory seats, and if the passenger seat has memory, it will also be an identical one there under the passenger seat. Regular seats without memory (memory version is green button + 1-2 switch in controller) will just have a set of seat relays for each motor and a smaller controller. Each seat is fused with a 40A fuse. The controller is common from all MB's of the era - w126, w124, w201. R129, W140 some early models and after that the switch changed. Later vehicles are slightly different and not as robust.
124637

Be aware that the connectors on the back are rudimentary to the controller, so you need to take the whole harness... otherwise it's a complete waste of time.
Might as well take the seats while you're at it - because they are Recaro Orthoped, built like tanks, have sprung seat bases with rubberised coconut fibre pads, and last a long time. Especially if they are MB-Tex and not leather, in which case they will outlive the vehicle.


There are different sizes - w201 (smaller) w124 (mid-size, probably closest to RRC) and w126 (MASSIVE and super comfy.)

They do not have individual armrests - this is one key difference to the RRC seats. Instead Mercedes put a built-in armrest into the passenger seat, and it may interfere with the RRC's cubby.

124638

If you want to see how the door switch is removed there is a writeup on pelican parts.
Mercedes-Benz W124 Power Seat Control Switch Replacement | 1986-1995 E-Class | Pelican Parts DIY Maintenance Article (http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Mercedes-W124/120-ELEC-Power_Seat_Control_Switch_Replacement/120-ELEC-Power_Seat_Control_Switch_Replacement.htm)

If you want to get hold of a pair of seats plus relays and door controls, then I suggest you contact MB Spares in Canberra (Fyshwick) 1300 787 300 who may also be able to provide later w210 / w202/ w203 etc. They will not be cheap to ship - because of the bulkiness and weight.

The seats are heavy - Especially if from a w124 coupe, which has the vacuum locking backrest switch.

I would suggest you actually go to a wrecker or a car yard and have a look first. Because you might not even like the style.... Your best alternative is a set of Recaro Expert L - which are a fully adjustable chair - about $2K worth from ideal seat company in Mordialloc - the bonus with those is single power connection, seat rail fitment kits are available, and you can take them out of the car and put them in the next car - which is absolutely worthwhile.

For what it's worth, I think the manual adjustment recaro seats (like the set I just sold to another 16v owner in the Gold coast) are a far more sensible and robust option - because there are no electrical things to fail. Hypocritical as it may sound, since my 124 and 201 have electric seats with memory, and I bought electrics for my 107.

Just FYI - the seat pads are available as spare parts, as are the backrest pads, and even though they last 30+ years, at least you can get replacements still. and the MB-Tex never wears, the funniest thing about it is that most people think it's leather.... There are some subtle differences, but 90% of people cannot tell the difference, until the seats completely stuffed. Then the leather seats will be cracked and abused, while the mB-Tex will still look like it has another 20+ years left in it. There are loads of cars from the late 1960's and early 1970's still going around with the original MB-Tex seats, and looking like they are almost new.

[Mercguy]

Actually Gavin, I have a mate down in Australind who may have some Leccy Merc seats - I'll give him a buzz.

[Classic88]

The wiring harness is never 'attached' to the door controller in a Mercedes. they are plugged in with special plugs, designed to prevent incorrect assembly / connection..
The harness will run from the doors, under the seat carpet to the seat and also to the separate independent door switches in a mercedes (you will see two door switches on these optioned vehicles) . The seat power feed is independent of the ignition, and is relay activated, when the door is open (with ign off) or when the doors are closed and ign switch is in 'run' (position 2, with running engine) The Mercedes relays are extremely heavy duty. They are not like the plastic case bosch / hella crap. they are 30 & 40A rated metal housed, with special pin connectors (silver plated).
The actual seat memory module is under the drivers seat for single-memory seats, and if the passenger seat has memory, it will also be an identical one there under the passenger seat. Regular seats without memory (memory version is green button + 1-2 switch in controller) will just have a set of seat relays for each motor and a smaller controller. Each seat is fused with a 40A fuse. The controller is common from all MB's of the era - w126, w124, w201. R129, W140 some early models and after that the switch changed. Later vehicles are slightly different and not as robust.
124637

Be aware that the connectors on the back are rudimentary to the controller, so you need to take the whole harness... otherwise it's a complete waste of time.
Might as well take the seats while you're at it - because they are Recaro Orthoped, built like tanks, have sprung seat bases with rubberised coconut fibre pads, and last a long time. Especially if they are MB-Tex and not leather, in which case they will outlive the vehicle.


There are different sizes - w201 (smaller) w124 (mid-size, probably closest to RRC) and w126 (MASSIVE and super comfy.)

They do not have individual armrests - this is one key difference to the RRC seats. Instead Mercedes put a built-in armrest into the passenger seat, and it may interfere with the RRC's cubby.

124638

If you want to see how the door switch is removed there is a writeup on pelican parts.
Mercedes-Benz W124 Power Seat Control Switch Replacement | 1986-1995 E-Class | Pelican Parts DIY Maintenance Article (http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Mercedes-W124/120-ELEC-Power_Seat_Control_Switch_Replacement/120-ELEC-Power_Seat_Control_Switch_Replacement.htm)

If you want to get hold of a pair of seats plus relays and door controls, then I suggest you contact MB Spares in Canberra (Fyshwick) 1300 787 300 who may also be able to provide later w210 / w202/ w203 etc. They will not be cheap to ship - because of the bulkiness and weight.

The seats are heavy - Especially if from a w124 coupe, which has the vacuum locking backrest switch.

I would suggest you actually go to a wrecker or a car yard and have a look first. Because you might not even like the style.... Your best alternative is a set of Recaro Expert L - which are a fully adjustable chair - about $2K worth from ideal seat company in Mordialloc - the bonus with those is single power connection, seat rail fitment kits are available, and you can take them out of the car and put them in the next car - which is absolutely worthwhile.

For what it's worth, I think the manual adjustment recaro seats (like the set I just sold to another 16v owner in the Gold coast) are a far more sensible and robust option - because there are no electrical things to fail. Hypocritical as it may sound, since my 124 and 201 have electric seats with memory, and I bought electrics for my 107.

Just FYI - the seat pads are available as spare parts, as are the backrest pads, and even though they last 30+ years, at least you can get replacements still. and the MB-Tex never wears, the funniest thing about it is that most people think it's leather.... There are some subtle differences, but 90% of people cannot tell the difference, until the seats completely stuffed. Then the leather seats will be cracked and abused, while the mB-Tex will still look like it has another 20+ years left in it. There are loads of cars from the late 1960's and early 1970's still going around with the original MB-Tex seats, and looking like they are almost new.

Thank you for the comprehensive reply Mercguy!

The difficulty I am facing is the actual driver's seat switch - because it includes memory functions, it has to be wired in via the seat memory ECU - which I don't have. I was hoping that the Mercedes non-memory switch was similar enough to allow it to be wired directly to the seat motors as is the case with the passenger side seat switch in my car.

[gavinwibrow]

Actually Gavin, I have a mate down in Australind who may have some Leccy Merc seats - I'll give him a buzz.


Excellent - will wait to hear. I'm passing that way coming back to Perth next Thursday if anything arises!

Although, I have to admit I do like the armrests in my RRC seats, and the ideal would be a simple connection of MB switches connected to the electric motors of the RRC.
Cheers

[Mercguy]

Sorry for the delayed response Gavin,

I rang my mate and he has sold the pair of electric recaros (was a w124 coupe) already - including the harness and controls.

May I suggest you look to a wrecker for an old w124 or w126 (the 300/420/560SEL's usually have them as standard)

Or, you may even find someone parting one out - I'll keep an eye out for you.

[gavinwibrow]

Sorry for the delayed response Gavin,

I rang my mate and he has sold the pair of electric recaros (was a w124 coupe) already - including the harness and controls.

May I suggest you look to a wrecker for an old w124 or w126 (the 300/420/560SEL's usually have them as standard)

Or, you may even find someone parting one out - I'll keep an eye out for you.



Cheers for the thought.

I was originally thinking/hoping that the switches alone could be used as replacements for the "orrible RRC ones, as I actually like the RRC seat/seating.

Also have to admit the ones in my long gone 300 SEL 6.3 were the bees knees for their day, although Falcons have had good seating for many years before Commodores caught on.

Decisions, decisions. I will cogitate more on whether there are any simpler switch only options (given that I only want the electrics to work via my manual switching without any seat memory hassles).
I'll leave all the other bits there for the next purchaser, unless I decide to be buried in the old girl. After all, I do hit 3 score and ten this year and have stopped reading the paper, just in case.

[Mercguy]

Should have kept that 6.3 - worth a mint now. and cost a mint to keep on the road :D

For years I've looked for a good one, nearly all the M100 cars are totally hidden or completely buggered now. Pity.

a good w109 is about as rare as rocking horse poo these days.

[Tins]

Should have kept that 6.3 - worth a mint now. and cost a mint to keep on the road :D



What an engine though. Who needs revs when you can just sail along on a tidal wave of torque.