TD5 Fuel Economy

[rdavies]

Hi, I have a 2000 TD5 Auto approx 131,000 km and notice the fuel economy has declined quite significantly in the past 6 months. I was doing around 11L/100km and now about 16L/100km - this is normal around town driving. On the highway I am still getting close to 11L/100km, maybe slightly more. My best every mileage was a trip to Sydney in Aug last year where I did 908km on one tank - almost empty though.

I am not sure if engine power has reduced - it still runs well, a bit sluggish until it warms up, I have noticed it struggle slightly more towing, but any change in power is gradual. The only mod I have is an ARB roof rack (Nov 05), so I do expect a small change, at worst 1 - 2 L/100km. My last service was a major one at about 124,000 and the air filter was replaced and I always change the oil every 10,000.

Does anyone have similar experiences with economy? Or advice on some checks I could do?

Regards

Richard

[johnv]

Do your self a favour if you have not tried this one allready

I had a similar kind of symptom plus a vibration @ 2200 -2400 rpm that was getting worse.

Cure/fix

Get a 2 bottles of good injector cleaner. ( Get a new fuel filter in as well if its been a while )

Put the whole lot of injectore cleaner in one full tank of fuel to give it a shock treatment.

Put the other one in over the next several tanks

The imporvement in mine was noticble in fuel economy, noise, vibration, smoke etc.

[adm333]

I think I know what the problem is........


Stop doing this ......


http://www.aulro.com/albums/ADM333-94-RR-Vogue-SE/Dcp_1103.sized.jpg

:wink: :wink: :wink:

Dave

[tracker]

908 on one tank!!!!.I'm lucky to get 650. :twisted:

[noddy]

When was the fuel filter last changed? You might have got a bad batch of fuel which has clogged the filter. It is expensive, but it might be worthwhile changing both your air and fuel filters to see whether this fixes the problem.

I also use a fuel conditioner/addiditive in every second tank which gives me better fuel economy but also addresses any problems with water or biological growths in the fuel.

Hope this helps.

[tracker]

Noddy,new filter just fitted last service,no change,injectors cleaned same time.Prob just right foot. Going on a run next week with caravan so will check.Not that worried,last lr was 200tdi disco used about same,one b4 was v8stage one but we wont go there :roll:

[DEFENDERZOOK]

Originally posted by Noddy
When was the fuel filter last changed? You might have got a bad batch of fuel which has clogged the filter. It is expensive, but it might be worthwhile changing both your air and fuel filters to see whether this fixes the problem.

I also use a fuel conditioner/addiditive in every second tank which gives me better fuel economy but also addresses any problems with water or biological growths in the fuel.

Hope this helps.

<span style="color:blue">
hey noddy....
what fuel conditioner are you using.....?</span>

[rdavies]

Thanks fellas, I will try a few of the suggestion and get back to you with some results.

And ADM333 (aka Dave), a great shot of my baby....its been a while since I have go her real dirty.

[rdavies]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

and thanks for the recovery

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

lets drain out the water

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[duff]

I have suffered really bad fuel economy as you are now. It started to be a problem only when towing my van, then it started happening on hot days and no van, eventually it was all the time. even though LR argued fiercely that there was no problems (I was trying to explain to the morons that the gearbox was slipping its clutches all the time and would rarely lock up the convertor).
The gearbox has been replaced recently (under warranty) and lo and behold my car is getting around the 11km per hundred again. Just about everywhere doing everything.
I am rapped its fixed for now, embarressed for LR that there dealers are Morons, and a little ****ed that for nearly two years (50000 kms) I have been using an extra 5lt (about $5.50) every 100 kms.
If only ZF would make there gearboxe's stronger so they wouldnt fail, or at least weaker so they would fail completey ,,,,not over a two year period TIC

Maybe taking note of what your box and all the ECU's are doing. At first my symptoms where very subtle but the economy was gone. It was doing things like not engaging gears first thing(first selection out of park) in the morning for a few seconds more than normal. it would not chage into top gear for km after km. again these all started subtle, subtle enough for me to at first think I was just getting over driving such a nice FWD(the novelty) and had just started to notice things that were not perfect. but alas it was the first symptoms of a terminal condition for the box.

[barryj]

Originally posted by rdavies
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~simonedavies/mypic18.JPG

and thanks for the recovery

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~simonedavies/mypic19.JPG

lets drain out the water

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~simonedavies/mypic21.JPG

Maybe the strap could be permanently attached to the RR, this would give the Discovery great fuel economy https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[noddy]

[quote=Noddy]When was the fuel filter last changed? You might have got a bad batch of fuel which has clogged the filter. It is expensive, but it might be worthwhile changing both your air and fuel filters to see whether this fixes the problem.

I also use a fuel conditioner/addiditive in every second tank which gives me better fuel economy but also addresses any problems with water or biological growths in the fuel.

Hope this helps.

<span style="color:blue">
hey noddy....
what fuel conditioner are you using.....?</span>

Howdy Zook!

It is called, 'FuelSet'. Western Australian based company. A mate of mine was using it in his farm machinery and completely swears by it. With the amount of disesel he uses the improvements add up.

http://www.liquideng.com.au/fuelset.html

[rdavies]

Thanks Duff.

I do notice that when I first engage it into DRIVE after it has been in PARK and the engine is stone cold, if I put my foot down to accelerate it is very sluggish, almost doesn't want to go. After a few seconds it responds and is fine.

I haven't experienced any problems with gear changes while driving and it seems to kick into overdrive no probs - but I will pay more attention to this. However, the rev range for gear changes appears to have changed ever so slightly, it revs slightly harder.

Just for reference, what's a new or reco gear box worth? Any preventative measures I could take like changing fluids or any additives?

Regards

Richard

[feral]

The delay in acceleration must be turbo lag. It will always do this and it is more pronounced when the ambient temperature is hot.

Also, one thing to look at..is the 's' mode button engaged. This changes the shift points on the auto.

Cheers,
Lyndon.

[rdavies]

I ususally leave it in normal mode, I only enage 'S' mode if I want to drag someone off at the lights.......like a truck https://www.aulro.com/afvb/.

[barryj]

Originally posted by rdavies
I ususally leave it in normal mode, I only enage 'S' mode if I want to drag someone off at the lights.......like a truck https://www.aulro.com/afvb/.

I don't remember ever 'dragging' anyone off at the lights in any of my Rovers - sometimes I go a little faster than other vehicles :roll:

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:blue">ive also noticed on mine that it has less power when its cold.....
once it warms up all is well......


i guess on an auto this will be more noticeable......</span>

[johnv]

I've just competed a 10K round trip from perth to hobart and back with a lot of detours on the way.

Last time I did that I got crap economy and my camper trailer was covered in black exhaust soot. this time I got great fuel economy and no soot and the only difference I can attribute it to be was that I started with a clean filters and used injector cleaner.

Towing a larger camper trailer that is about the same size as my car. I got about 7-8 Km per litre which is not bad. I did have favourable winds, but even then it was a noticable improvement[/u]

[Lucy]

What brand fuel are you using? I have found that there can be a difference of 3 to 4 L/100km with different fuels. Usually use Shell, but occasionally forced to use other brands. Every time I use BP, the economy suffers. Mildura to Hay, Shell diesel, 9.5L/100km, BP diesel 12.8L/100km. Same load, conditions (time of day, temperature, wind), speed. Woolies fuel does the same.

Note: all the interstate trucks seem to fill up at the BP near Gol Gol, which was why I went there, but have since found all the local truckies fill up at the Shell down the road!

[duff]

On the first thing sluggishness. and the hesitance to transmit drive ,,,,only on the first action of the day.

What you are describing is what mine would do this symptom didnt get much worse from the first time it done it till the gearbox failed. but the rest of the symptoms did.
The car did not do it for the first year then it failed and displayed this symptom, "amongst others". the box has been replaced and the symptom has gone completely, even thugh the engine is older and presumably producing lass torque. So if you are experiencing what I was , it is not the turbo lag.
The dealers tryed to explain it away as the box waiting for the correct temp signal before it transmitted power. this is a real design feature they are describing, but in Australia you would be hard pushed to ever notice it, normally the temp of the trans oil has achieved the safety figure before most of us reach the gearstick. it is deaigned for sub zero climates of Europe. I forget the exact figure, but remember thinking it was basically my morning air temp in Weipa anyway, and would not come into play.
Trans oil change did not fix mine.

[rdavies]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>What brand fuel are you using? I have found that there can be a difference of 3 to 4 L/100km with different fuels.[/b][/quote]

I usually go with Shell (for the 4c discount), but haven't noticed much difference on the occasions I have used BP or others.

I am doing a long drive this weekend, so I will put some good quality fuel treatment in (CEM Cleanpower).......I will give it a go and hopefully things improve. I really hope its just the injectors and not something more serious like the transmission.

Regarding the hesitance to transmit drive straight after cold start - it does seem more apparent, but maybe I am more conscious about it now and thinking something is wrong. My wife recons it has always been like that, well before the economy decreased.

Regards

Richard

[tracker]

I've got to agre that the fuel makes a hell of a difference.Once filled up sth newcastle and the tdi flew,next fill atgc and back to normal.
Maybe they added some petrol to the tanks at ncle,who knows.
(a old trick we used with trucks was to add some petrol to boost power,) :roll:

[rdavies]

what ratio of petrol would be safe to add to diesel?

[johnv]

"what ratio of petrol would be safe to add to diesel?"


Get that one wrong and your up for a new set of injectors or a new head.

Get it right and your up for better fuel economy and more grunt.


I'll play safe

[CraigE]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>What brand fuel are you using? I have found that there can be a difference of 3 to 4 L/100km with different fuels. Usually use Shell, but occasionally forced to use other brands. Every time I use BP, the economy suffers. Mildura to Hay, Shell diesel, 9.5L/100km, BP diesel 12.8L/100km.[/b][/quote]
Funni I have found that too, may have to stop using BP.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I've just competed a 10K round trip from perth to hobart and back with a lot of detours on the way.

Last time I did that I got crap economy and my camper trailer was covered in black exhaust soot. this time I got great fuel economy and no soot and the only difference I can attribute it to be was that I started with a clean filters and used injector cleaner[/b][/quote]
John, my brother and sister in laws have just done that trip as well. You didnt see a White Navara with BAVC plates towing a van did you.
Seema a lot of people from WA headed down to Tassie this summer.

[LandyAndy]

Hi
My manual TD5 Disco seems to go between 10.5 to 12 L/100ks.Went to Albany over new years,got 950ks from the tank which included off roading on some pretty soft beaches,plus had the roofrack on and 3 pushbikes on the back.LOADED TO THE GUNNELS.
I used the cruis but only had it set for a tad over 100ks.
Andrew

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:blue">keep the TD5 in the 1500 - 2000 rpm range and they seem to forget to drink.....

ive noticed the same with mine....if im calm and not in a hurry i will get more kms
to the tank than when i try to keep up with the rest of the traffic.....


but usually i get frustrated and work my way to pole position.......</span>

[Captain_Rightfoot]

[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:blue">keep the TD5 in the 1500 - 2000 rpm range and they seem to forget to drink.....</span>
Mental note... future justification for tacho install there. Can you tell me how loud they are between 1500rpm and 2000rpm? https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[George130]

[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:blue">keep the TD5 in the 1500 - 2000 rpm range and they seem to forget to drink.....</span>
Mental note... future justification for tacho install there. Can you tell me how loud they are between 1500rpm and 2000rpm? https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Quieter than at full throttle https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:blue">what edd said..... https://www.aulro.com/afvb/


its just before the turbo hits its peak power.....
its best to change the gears between 1900 and 2000 rpm on the TD5....
sweet spot.....</span>

[barryj]

[[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:blue">what edd said..... https://www.aulro.com/afvb/


its just before the turbo hits its peak power.....
its best to change the gears between 1900 and 2000 rpm on the TD5....
sweet spot.....</span>


<span style="color:darkblue">I tried this yesterday in the auto, it would take ages to get anywhere as the auto does not like to change under 2000 rpm. It likes it around 2300 to 2500. I guess that is one drawback with the auto over a manual :cry: </span>

[rdavies]

Reporting back with some results:

I put two doses of fuel treatment (CEM Cleanpower) in over the weekend - travelled about 1000Km highway driving - air con used most of the time (40+ degree days in Victoria).

First tank 690Km, fuel gage reading just below quarter tank when I refilled - put in another 74 L - works out at approx 10.7L/100km. I guess this is ok - I have ARB roof rack on (although empty) so would effect it a little bit.

Second tank travelled about 300Km (highway) and fuel gage reading between 3 quarter and half so about the same mileage as first tank.

Yesterday I towed approx 750Kg (small boat trailer) for 200km (mostly highway) and fuel gage dropped to be between half and 1 quarter so I am estimating usage close to 30L - so 15L/100km. I have noticed it really struggle with power when towing the boat trailer https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

The thread on "TD5 Discovery lack of power" - maybe I should be looking at some of these things.

I will be interested to see if I get improvements with "around town" driving in coming weeks - oh and also with the "wife" driving (who tries to drive it like a sports car) :x :x :x :x

Regards

Richard

[MT]

Hi,

I have had a very similar problem. Normally get around 800-900 km out of standard tank (manual), one trip through the NW of WA copped some bad fuel, went to 500km a tank. Fixed up by new filter and injectors serviced.

2nd time, trip back to Darwin, ECU playing up, turns our there was an ECU recall on 00 TD5 that the local stealer in Canberra had not done (was under warranty so using the stealer). ECU nigh on failed in the end (sent a whole bunch of things really wacky), replaced under warranty (of course only after the return trip Darwin / Isa/ Longreach).

Agree with the 1500 - 2000 rpm being the sweet spot for economy. On good dirt, taking it easy at 8okm / hr-ish can get up to 9l / 100 km. (with load on board) https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Round about way of saying my experience is that fuel economy problems have been filter/ injector or ECU, can't say have noticed difference in distributor / flavour (except for that ****hole in the main street of Broome on the port side who sold me the filth :evil: ).

Cheers

Mark

[harryw]

Wasn't a BP place was it?

[MickG]

[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:blue">what edd said..... https://www.aulro.com/afvb/


its just before the turbo hits its peak power.....
its best to change the gears between 1900 and 2000 rpm on the TD5....
sweet spot.....</span>

With my Manual TD5 Disco, I used to change gear at around those revs, but since having my ECU remapped, the torque is massively reduced at these revs so I find I have to at least take it to 2500-3000 in order to change up gears. If I change up at say 2500, then revs would normally drop back to around 1500 where the torque is just not there. It's almost like to ECU has thrown the gear ratios out so you have to change gear higher up the rev range so that it falls back into the torque band.......if that makes sense.

Anyway, used to get about 950ks out of the tank on the highway with the standard ECU, and now get about 800ks with the remapped ECU. Have started using fuel treatment every now and again but have not noticed any real difference plus am starting to be a bit more selective with the fuel I put in.

Aye, Mick

[MT]

Originally posted by harryw
Wasn't a BP place was it?

Harry,

can't remember what brand, it had what you would call an 'undeveloped' forecourt (virtually just the pump(s) on the roadside) and the building was a daggy old garage type.

When I lived in the Territory, anytime someone copped some bad fuel the 'old' hands would all put it down to 'that bad indonesian fuel'. I don't know the veracity of this theory, but it was 'common knowledge' that some of the dieso came from up North as it was closer than the refineries down south. The theory was that the quality was sometimes poor...

Does anyone know the same story go around the NW?


Cheers

[harryw]

probably "woody's", a broome icon no longer in business.

The fuel was invariably the cheapest in town

[barryj]

Originally posted by MT+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MT)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-harryw
Wasn't a BP place was it?

Harry,

can't remember what brand, it had what you would call an 'undeveloped' forecourt (virtually just the pump(s) on the roadside) and the building was a daggy old garage type.

When I lived in the Territory, anytime someone copped some bad fuel the 'old' hands would all put it down to 'that bad indonesian fuel'. I don't know the veracity of this theory, but it was 'common knowledge' that some of the dieso came from up North as it was closer than the refineries down south. The theory was that the quality was sometimes poor...

Does anyone know the same story go around the NW?


Cheers[/b][/quote]

When we were in Broome April/May 2005 I think we fueled at Shell. We tried to use Shell as much as possible as we could use the Coles 4c per ltr off trick https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ . Could not do at this at the Shell in Tennant Creek :cry: but we got a few cents per ltr off with or caravan park receipt on our return trip :wink:

We had no trouble with any of the Diesel, just over 1,381 ltrs used for 10,349 km. This averages out to 7.49 km per ltr.

We towed an Outback Explorer soft top off road camper trailer and had 3 adults on board. I tried to keep around 100 kph on cruise control. The best economy was from Roma to Brisbane when I let the cruise control handle everything even if it wanted to rev at 4,000 rpm for a bit up hill. We got 8 km per ltr on that leg. By the way, we went via the Gibb River Road for that area https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[harryw]

I lived up there for 2 years and had no problems either and as my wife worked at Coles we bought from the Shell servo.

From the original description of the site the only servos are BP ones and I know the guy who distributes all that fuel so thought it a bit strange.

Woodys has been closed for over a year and he was an independant so would have got it wherever was cheapest and that probably accounted for the problems.

regards

[George130]

For those with the auto and the gear canging issue. Last night when I limped my rig home I reved it over 2000rpm only twice. Both times on steep hills. I did find that if you wait long enough then the speed very very slowly increases until it changes up :roll:
I even managed 85 down hil at one point https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[wardy1]

Hey Zook, I use 'FuelSet' in my Td5. no nasties in the fuel, and seems to be keeping the injectors clean. My disco now has 97k on it. i'll get u the details for supply if you want it. costs about $25 but I've been using the recommended amount every 3 tanks and only used 1/2 a bottle in 50k:D

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:blue">if its available from major suppliers i will look into it......

if i have to go searching for it i will stick to fuel doctor......</span>

[barryj]

[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:blue">if its available from major suppliers i will look into it......

if i have to go searching for it i will stick to fuel doctor......</span>

Fuel Doctor has served me well since 1998 so I will keep using it. Super Cheap used to sell it here in Brisbane but no longer did last time needed some. Maybe you folk down south are using too much and not leaving enough for us up here https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:blue">supercrap has plenty of fuel doctor down here....

come and get some....</span>

[barryj]

[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:blue">supercrap has plenty of fuel doctor down here....

come and get some....</span>

sounds good to me https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ must book another holiday down there https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ too hot up here anyway a present :oops:

[solmanic]

Well to add my two cents worth - I notice if I fill up at the local Shell on odd numbered days, then drive backwards for 3/4 km, park, get out, walk clockwise around the vehicle five times, get in, flash the hazard lights a dozen times, tug the peak of my cap, adjust the mirrors, drive forward three km, stop, get out again, open and close all the doors twice, get in, get out again, jump on the spot seven times, get in and drive to my destination, my fuel economy is about 55l/100km. However, it's much better when I do it with the handbrake off...

[tracker]

just back,942kls and used 135lts diesel. Caravan behind and travelled at 100 when possible.Much better the the old v8stage one(3.7ksper ltr)