TD5 Glow Plugs

[whitey56]

HI All,
I checked my glow plugs for resistance and by shorting across a battery, they all come up with a open circuit [well 3 did the head rebuilder lost one].
Is this common with these pencil type plugs i would have thought some or one at least would have shown high resistance or attempted to glow.
Or might it also so be the case of one out all out too. Has done 270,000.
What do you guys think. Thanks

[AK83]

I just did my D1's glow plugs yesterday.
All the old ones recorded high-ish resistance.
(you don't want high resistance either, you want low resistance so that all the voltage/current can heat the tip up properly)
New plugs made for instant starting in the cold(from cold) now... whoot!

Going to do brother's TD5 glow plugs one day soon too, but they look impossible to reach/access.
Did your mechanic remove the inlet manifold for access. Can't see any other way to remove them.

ps. I just got some off ebay, cheap 'nuff. As long as they get me through this winter.

[whitey56]

Thanks Ak83 i'm glad you had a win with your glow plugs, my head is on the bench just picked it up from the head rebuilders who pulled the GP's out , all of mine are open circuit with no resistance showing on my meter at all. I will order new ones off Mario and Heather i was just wondering why my plugs are all stuffed at once.

[AK83]

.... i was just wondering why my plugs are all stuffed at once.

I'd say the more likely scenario is that they all slowly committed suicide, have never been replaced.
So one by one, just like the 10 green bottles, or the five little ducks [tonguewink] .. they ceased operation, and now that they're getting attention they all appear to have died 'at once'.

[nismine01]

Why get new glow plugs, who waits for them to heat up?

In Australia there is little chance of needing the glow plugs to work. My Land Rover dealer argued with me when I asked for a set of glow plugs for my 300TDI, he claimed they were totally unnecessary

You just get in and turn the key to start and the motor is running, no glow plug..

Mind you, if one is lost that could cause a problem!!

Mike

[AK83]

Why get new glow plugs, who waits for them to heat up?

In Australia there is little chance of needing the glow plugs to work. My Land Rover dealer argued with me when I asked for a set of glow plugs for my 300TDI, he claimed they were totally unnecessary

You just get in and turn the key to start and the motor is running, no glow plug..

Mind you, if one is lost that could cause a problem!!

Mike

I'm sure it'd get cold enough in the Adelaide Hills area to need glow plugs, but I dunno.
Mine would take at least 30 sec of cranking on a cold morning(from cold) to begin to splutter to life, where I'd then have to feather the throttle violently to coax it to actually fire.
I replaced the plugs from cold, so that the engine was still cold when I first fired it up, and start was an immediate <1sec affair.
Same this morning, was slightly colder(~ <10°C) as I started it up earlier than I did yesterday(~ 10°C).

My experience is that they make a massive difference.
plugs were cheaper than a pack of smokes, so the cost factor was insignificant.
If you don't have the dreaded 30+ seconds of cranking that some diesels may need on a cold-ish morning .. then for sure you don't need to worry about them.

But in saying that too tho, I'm 99.9% sure I have a possible faulty injector too, hence why I'm changing them all(precautionary).

before glow plug change, idle immediately after start, ie. the first 30 sec was rough as guts, lumpy and slower than normal .. about 60-ish rpm.
But with the glow plug change(and to my surprise) it idles smoothly and more like about 750-ish rpm just with the plugs.
Certainly wasn't expecting better idle during the cold idle time.

But my issue with what I think is an injector problem, is that when cold, but after about 10 or so sec once the oil has had time to circulate, if I try to maintain a very fast idle(and hold it there), somewhere between about 1100-1200, it starts to run very rough .. like it's missing.
between about 1200-1600rpm, and held there(when cold), it's very rough(whereas at idle it's very smooth now) and it billows lots of smoke.
It will maintain this smokyness at 1500rpm with the very rough feels like a miss running until it's starts to build some temperature up.
My temp gauge only starts to show from 50°C, but this temperature crossover from running pretty crappy to running fine, is below that 50°C mark, so I haven't really sussed it out.
Even during this cold running time when the engine feels rough at 1500rpm, if I then push it to about 1750rpm, it then smooths out and stops smoking as well.

The other weird aspect: I sometimes work 13hrs, so the car can sit at work out in the open and frosty night air, and it doesn't do it.

[steve_a]

In the UK if the day was below zero, like say -5 or something. I *might* wait for the whole glow plug cycle on the 200 and 300 TDi vehicles I had back there. On the series 3 2.2 NA old school, I would probably go through 2 or 3 cycles of glow plugs/keep them on for 30 seconds.

I really, honestly, from actual experience of slightly low temperatures, imagine needing the glow plugs to do much more than fill the hole effectively in Australia.
With the electronic injection I am surprised the TD5 even has them, most modern ones don't they just change the injection point (and I reckon the TD5 does too).

Other comparisons - the viscous was removed from the defender 200tdi, I had an electric for when needed and used off road at low speeds. I *needed* the electric about 3 times (while not off road) in the UK, two when I'd been cruising at 70mph and hit traffic so went to zero and sat there and the other was when I had the rad fins full of mud and had no cooling after a trip.
But I'd not run without the viscous here, I reckon it's well involved in keeping everything happy, even in 'winter' (which is temperature wise comparable to most of the UK summer on average).

It's easy to forget that the same car can go from desert to antarctic with no/little changes. So your TD5 is designed to start in -40 Norway and +50 Saudi...

[Tins]

No way mine will start if I don't wait ,300TDi, that is. Never noticed in the TD5, it just started.

[whitey56]

All good reading guys, I will still renew my GP's as a process of elimination as the Disco before the pull down would start cold on the first or second compression then 60% of the time would stall, I still have to check the air bleed valve at the filter but hoping new injector washers and GP's will fix this.

Thanks for the replies.

[nismine01]

I guess it gets as cold at my place in winter.

The reason for the smoother running from start is that (on others at least) the glow plugs stay on for a short while after start up.

It does sound as though you have an injector problem though, are you 'making oil'? A leaking injector or faulty injector seal could be causing the white smoke which is simply unburnt diesel.

Mine starts instantly, I've never known a motor to start with such ease.

Regards

Mike

[AK83]

I guess it gets as cold at my place in winter.

The reason for the smoother running from start is that (on others at least) the glow plugs stay on for a short while after start up.

It does sound as though you have an injector problem though, are you 'making oil'? A leaking injector or faulty injector seal could be causing the white smoke which is simply unburnt diesel.

Mine starts instantly, I've never known a motor to start with such ease.

Regards

Mike

In the two services I've now given it, it doesn't 'use' oil.
(only the stupid leak I generated in not changing the main seal when I did the timing belt a few months back now.)

The owner I bought it off, said he did a lot of work to it in the previous few months prior to selling it. He was from the Warbuton area, which is similar to Adelaide Hills .. very frosty mornings and nights.
When I went to see it one night, it was very cold motor felt stone cold to touch, so confident it hadn't been 'warmed' prior to me checking it out, and it started instantly then too .. so the glow plug problem was one that developed over the year I've now had it.

But the oil on the #4 glow plug freaked me out a little.
I'm thinking a leaking valve seal ???

Ditto on the much better idle immediately after start now being due to new plugs.
It's the only explanation, as it's the only thing I've done.
I reckon it must have been 5° or less this morning, and it's the first time since last year that I've had it 'immediately' start like that.
Barely half a sec of glow plug wait time, but burst to life and idled with no input on the pedal .. yay!

I'll probably have some time to do the injectors weekend after next I hope.
If I can remember too .. locate a facet pump to remove the lift pump at the same time .. hope to find a blanking plate at the same time.

Actually, this post just reminded me to find my compression testing kit to see if I have an adapter to suit. If the injectors are coming off, never hurts to record compression values I guess.

[steve_a]

If you don't have the injector adaptor (and I have the Pykes Sykevant (sp?) one which needs a different gauge set up, no schrader valve in adaptor) then you could consider a relative compression test with a measured value for cylinder 1.
You monitor the current during turn over and get a sync pulse for injector 1 to tell which current spike is which. You can then figure out the other compression values. Though if you get a relative test and they are all the same(ish) and you like the value from no 1 you don't need to do the math.

Of course you need a AC/DC current clamp and oscilloscope for that test, so it's not like that doesn't need some kit :)

[sierrafery]

The glow plugs on the Td5 are not only for starting, they have a so called "post heat operation" which comes into play after the engine was started regardless of the warning and can last even few minutes if it's cold outside untill the ECT input is 20*C and that helps combustion after cold start... they are important no matter of climate IMO

[AK83]

I did a bit of a test tonight.(inadvertently)
Got to the D1 after work, and had to put some stuff in the back seat.
So unlocked it, key in ignition, set to position II(glow plugs on, and out after the timer cuts out(as per normal).
But instead of starting, I'm putting stuff in the back, so I've delayed the start by about 15-20sec or so.
By this time the glow plug light is out for about 15-20 sec.
No instant start.
Ignition off, back on, wait till the plug light goes out .. instant start, but this time minimal throttle required for a smooth idle.

[Tins]

In the two services I've now given it, it doesn't 'use' oil.
(only the stupid leak I generated in not changing the main seal when I did the timing belt a few months back now.)

The owner I bought it off, said he did a lot of work to it in the previous few months prior to selling it. He was from the Warbuton area, which is similar to Adelaide Hills .. very frosty mornings and nights.
When I went to see it one night, it was very cold motor felt stone cold to touch, so confident it hadn't been 'warmed' prior to me checking it out, and it started instantly then too .. so the glow plug problem was one that developed over the year I've now had it.

But the oil on the #4 glow plug freaked me out a little.
I'm thinking a leaking valve seal ???

Ditto on the much better idle immediately after start now being due to new plugs.
It's the only explanation, as it's the only thing I've done.
I reckon it must have been 5° or less this morning, and it's the first time since last year that I've had it 'immediately' start like that.
Barely half a sec of glow plug wait time, but burst to life and idled with no input on the pedal .. yay!

I'll probably have some time to do the injectors weekend after next I hope.
If I can remember too .. locate a facet pump to remove the lift pump at the same time .. hope to find a blanking plate at the same time.

Actually, this post just reminded me to find my compression testing kit to see if I have an adapter to suit. If the injectors are coming off, never hurts to record compression values I guess.

Mostly that makes sense, but I'm tipping that you have never been to Warburton, if you think it equates to the Adelaide Hills.

[bee utey]

Mostly that makes sense, but I'm tipping that you have never been to Warburton, if you think it equates to the Adelaide Hills.

Most of the town of Warburton lies in a valley inside the 200m contour, much like many parts of the Adelaide hills. The hill tops are another matter. [bigsmile1]

[wardy1]

Greg at AMV told me that my glow plugs weren't working but said in Oz we don't need them anyway. Actually told me that 90% of Td5's have faulty glow plugs. In our climate they are not required