New Allisport transmission cooler

[PhilipA]

The latest LRO has in its new products section an Allisport uprated transmission cooler for auto D2s.
It fits in the original space and connects to the original couplings and temp sensor.
Its price is GBP321.60
This seems to me to be a great alternative to trying to fit an additional cooler somewhere and having to arrange pipes etc, and the cost would probably work out somewhere the same as you could DIY.

If I ever get any spare cash I will buy one .

Regards Philip A

[twr7cx]

How much larger is it than factory? I ask as there doesn't look to be much room in there to fit. The other issue is that you've got to remove the radiator and intercooler (which is a painful job) to fit where the aftermarket additional coolers fit behind the grill without all that removal.


connects to the original couplings

Not necessarily a benefit. Whilst it makes installation easier and neater and more factory the original couplings are known not to be the most reliable.

I assume the fittings are at the back of the picture:

125457
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/07/123.jpg

EDIT: I assume this is it Discovery 2 TD5 Auto Gearbox Oil Cooler - AlliSport (https://www.allisport.com/shop/performance-products/oil-coolers/discovery-2-td5-auto-gearbox-oil-cooler/) GBP 268.00 ex VAT plus 64.04 for shipping for a total of 332.04 or AUD $564.48.


DescriptionUprated automatic gearbox oil cooler
these are designed as a direct replacement for the original oil cooler and is designed to connect with the original pipes.
High performance aluminium core with over three times the cooling capacity of the original design.
Ideal for vehicles that are used for towing or overland in hot climates.
Fully TIG welded design ensures superior strength and reliability.
We are able to produce oil coolers and radiators any size and shape, please enquire.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

"3 times the cooling capacity"

I can only assume that means it will remove 3 times the btu's of the original?

[PhilipA]

Funny it's a different picture in LRO which shows the stubs. I wonder why the price is different also . I like Allisport's price better!

You have to also consider that you are placing yet another obstacle in front of the condenser and radiator if you put an aftermarket cooler in the front.

Regards Philip A

[twr7cx]

Another factor to consider is that you don't want to over cool the automatic transmission. Too much cooling prevents it from being able to reach operating temperature or makes it take longer to do so which increases wear and tear inside the transmission and results in worse fuel economy.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

so what are we hoping for?
less than 100, more than 80?
but when?
dont say all the time because thats not how the system is set up,,

all I'm thinking is
when you add an extra cooler it takes the top off the gearbox fluid temp range,,
and yes twr7cx,, also the bottom off the bottom ;)
until a thermostat is added there will be lots of temp variation,
LR were concerned enough to add one to their cooling system..
but not ZF ,,

as the penalty for overcooing is just wear and tear and fuel,,
it has to be better than the penalty for not cooling enough..

anyway enough of that,,

Do you think the new Allisport better than the P38 cooler?

[twr7cx]

so what are we hoping for?
less than 100, more than 80?
but when?
dont say all the time because thats not how the system is set up,,

all I'm thinking is
when you add an extra cooler it takes the top off the gearbox fluid temp range,,
and yes twr7cx,, also the bottom off the bottom ;)
until a thermostat is added there will be lots of temp variation,
LR were concerned enough to add one to their cooling system..
but not ZF ,,

Advise by Ascroft Transmissions:


What oil temperature should my ZF be running at ?
There is a good guide to oil temps here (http://www.digi-panel.com/trannyoil.htm), also to see the max transmission temp see here (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/temperature-strip.html),

Ashcroft Transmissions (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/frequently-asked-questions/4hp22-faq-s.html)

So check out - Transmission Oil (http://www.digi-panel.com/trannyoil.htm) - as recommended.

Essentially:

don't exceed 149*C maximum termperature at the torque converter outlet to cooler. The Discovery 2 temperature switch is located later in the system near the oil cooler once the fluid has begun to cool already.
65.5*C minimum operating temperature at the sump. I've found my Disco 2 won't engage the torque converter lock until it's at least at 40*C. Until then it remains unlocked to build up temperature.
80 - 93*C is the normal operating temperature at the sump.
135*C maximum sump oil temperature for short bursts (e.g. hill climb).
149*C at the sump is when "...internal transmission parts, including warpage of metal parts, degradation of clutches, and melting of seals. Transmission oil oxidizes, (forming varnish-like substances causing further clutch slippage and compounding heat build up) and transmission oil life is extremely short."



as the penalty for overcooing is just wear and tear and fuel,,
it has to be better than the penalty for not cooling enough..

I would suggest that that is over simplifying it. If you run it too cool all day every day that minor additional wear and tear will compound and add up.

[PhilipA]

Here is the ad as appeared in LRO, and it looks different to the Allisport site.


125524

Just on the temperature thing I use Castrol Transmax Z which is approved by ZF and also Castrol claims it reduces transmission temps by 20C. I have never had a trans warning light on in my RRC or D2 unless the sensor was cactus.

I just did a double change on my trans after 50KK as a workshop topped it with DEX 3 when they did work on the LT230. No chunks at all and just a slurry on the magnet at 189KK. And that is after towing in 40C plus .
Regards Philip A

[twr7cx]

I have never had a trans warning light on in my RRC or D2 unless the sensor was cactus.

By the time the factory automatic transmission oil temperature light comes on it's too late (this is well known and plenty of threads already discussing this). Its due to the location as the temperature sensor is at the front of the vehicle on the D2 where the cooler is. This is a much cooler temperature position than measuring at the gearbox where the fluid has just flown out of the torque converter. The temperature difference can be quiet extreme - if it's reaching the 150*C required to set the factory light off then the TC temperature is much much much higher than that!

[John_D4]

TRS are doing a P38 trans cooler as a kit for the D2. They say that after fitting the P38 cooler that they haven't had any issues with trans temps. By memory it was about $300

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Thanks twr7cx, [smilebigeye]
so we need to monitor-
"the torque converter outlet to cooler"

125548

[twr7cx]

Thanks twr7cx, [smilebigeye]
so we need to monitor-
"the torque converter outlet to cooler"

125548

Yes, ideally. That is where I fitted my temperature sensor for the MadMan EMS. You can see in the picture that you put on that there are three plug bungs between the two '26' pipes. I removed one of those and fitted it in there - I got lucky the first time and it was in the oil outflow from the TC.

[PhilipA]

IMHO unless you tow 3 tonnes in the desert across sand hills a transmission temperature gauge is just another distraction.
I have towed my 800-1000 Kg camper trailer on Stockton with my RRC in low range keeping over 2000RPM stall in very dry sand , and no red light and it didn't have lockup in third..

To be sure I use Castrol Transmax Z which has a higher oxidization temperature and is blurbed to reduce transmission oil temperature by 20C.

My theory is that by locking my TD5 trans as much as possible by changing down early on hills and using Transmax Z I am giving my transmission the best chance to survive. I am busy enough looking at my EGT gauge, my boost gauge and my digital engine temperature gauge let alone the GPS and speedo to check speed.

If you tow BIG stuff then go for it, and then you probably need a bigger oil cooler.

Regards Philip A
I must say I sort of changed my thinking about buying a bigger cooler after considering over cooling . I recall I once had an oil cooler on a 77 RRC and it overcooled the engine and gunked up the breather pipes so much I had to drill the crap out of the stubs on the carbys. I added a thermostat which helped but then the bloody oil pressure would go away for a second as the thermostat opened.

If you fitted a thermostat to the cooler I think you would run that risk which would possibly damage the transmission.

[gusthedog]

Yes, ideally. That is where I fitted my temperature sensor for the MadMan EMS. You can see in the picture that you put on that there are three plug bungs between the two '26' pipes. I removed one of those and fitted it in there - I got lucky the first time and it was in the oil outflow from the TC.

My ems temp fitting is in the exact same bung [wink11]

[Slunnie]

The problem still exists - the ATF cooler in that location still fills up with mud and dirt which blocks the airflow and prevents any cooling. It wouldn't matter if it was standard capacity or 10x the capacity.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

My ems temp fitting is in the exact same bung [wink11]

any chance of marking exactly which bung? [bigwhistle]

[gusthedog]

How bout a photo (when the frost goes)?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

:eek2:

frost? so thats a cold thing,, right? [bigrolf]
Beautiful one day--- [wink11]

[rick130]

:eek2:

frost? so thats a cold thing,, right? [bigrolf]
Beautiful one day--- [wink11]
Bastard !

As my location title says.....

It's just taking longer than I planned. :(

[gusthedog]

:eek2:

frost? so thats a cold thing,, right? [bigrolf]
Beautiful one day--- [wink11]Here it is. And yes that's a rear main leak or output shaft leak. No leaks from the auto box [emoji12] https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/07/55.jpg

EDIT. Yes it's a crappy photo. No I won't retake it [emoji6] But if you can't see the vdo sensor is in the bung closest to the outlet/inlet pipe. Bolted straight in with the adaptor from ems.

[jwb]

My ems temp fitting is in the exact same bung [wink11]

Can you advise which of the 'bungs' you used, thanks

[twr7cx]

Can you advise which of the 'bungs' you used, thanks

Pictures and details have already been provided on p. 2 of this thread.

[DiscoDiscoMan]

Pictures and details have already been provided on p. 2 of this thread.

Thanks twr7cx, looks a neat solution. Regarding the temp sensor you mentioned VDO can you recall the size/type?

[twr7cx]

Thanks twr7cx, looks a neat solution. Regarding the temp sensor you mentioned VDO can you recall the size/type?

It was the one supplied in the Mad Man EMS kit. If you look through their selling website you should be able to find the model details part number.

[DiscoDiscoMan]

It was the one supplied in the Mad Man EMS kit. If you look through their selling website you should be able to find the model details part number.

Cheers twr7cx. Looks to be the 1/8 npt. Suprising, imperial on a German box.
Will post how it goes, but will be a few months away

[DiscoDiscoMan]

It was the one supplied in the Mad Man EMS kit. If you look through their selling website you should be able to find the model details part number.

I assume you installed it during a service when the trans was empty of fluid? Also how did you get the wire through the fire wall? Had a look yesterday and where wite harness goes through the firewall it had very little spare room.
Your dealing with a novice.....[emoji57]

[twr7cx]

I assume you installed it during a service when the trans was empty of fluid?[emoji57]

No, I would have done it on any random day and just aimed to be as fast as possible and top the fluid up afterwards.


Also how did you get the wire through the fire wall? Had a look yesterday and where wite harness goes through the firewall it had very little spare room.[emoji57]

I used a knife to enlarge the opening - I currently have a 8 gauge power cable, two UHF antenna cables, MadMan wiring and more fitting through there, so it can be done.

[DiscoDiscoMan]

Thanks twr7cx! Let you know how it goes.

[PhilipA]

I don't know if you are referring to it, but there is a big grommet immediately underneath the brake booster which you cannot see from the engine bay. It has plenty of room for a number of wires etc.
To access you have to push through from the cabin then pull the wires through. I use a nutgrabber for this.
Regards Philip A

[DiscoDiscoMan]

I don't know if you are referring to it, but there is a big grommet immediately underneath the brake booster which you cannot see from the engine bay. It has plenty of room for a number of wires etc.
To access you have to push through from the cabin then pull the wires through. I use a nutgrabber for this.
Regards Philip A

Awesome tip Phil. I was in Jaycar last week and bought a nut grabber and long magnet for $8.
Yes that was the grommet I was looking at.
Was considering a steel skewer from the cutlery draw....[emoji486]🥄
Thanks!

[DiscoDiscoMan]

Gents here is some information for you...

Using the photo above and crawling under the Disco this is the bung used, see orange circle.
It is an M14 1.5 thread.... see my post in What happened to your Disco today for further results...
Cheers DDM

131011

[admiralranga]

For the lazy https://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2-a/232420-what-happened-your-discovery-2-today-252.html#post2731424

(soz about the reviving ancient thread but it's also what comes up when you start searching for sticking a temp sensor in a zf box).

[stevo]

No, I would have done it on any random day and just aimed to be as fast as possible and top the fluid up afterwards.



I used a knife to enlarge the opening - I currently have a 8 gauge power cable, two UHF antenna cables, MadMan wiring and more fitting through there, so it can be done.

If you pull the sound proofing back there is another bung under that one that you can put through another complete wiring harness, only found it by accident when replacing speed sensor wiring. near brake booster well hidden as someone else has pointed out.

[Tombie]

TRS are doing a P38 trans cooler as a kit for the D2. They say that after fitting the P38 cooler that they haven't had any issues with trans temps. By memory it was about $300

They are - I was the instigator on my D2 years ago.