Clunk in front suspension

[pprass]

I have travelled 90,000 kms in our MY15 over the past 2 years which has included some very rough heavily corrugated roads towing a caravan. Over that time I have noticed that the front suspension clunks and rattles even when I go over very minor bumps - like one of those cats eyes in the middle of the road. The back suspension is very quite and solid and just rides over any bumps silently. I have a bull bar on the front, but that seems to be very solid and secure.
Is that what others are experiencing with their front suspension when going over bumps?

[cjc_td5]

It will be failing Lower Control Arm bushes. Very common fault at your kms. Typically they reveal themselves as clunking when traversing speed humps.
The bushes are typically replaced by replacing the whole Lower Control Arm as this is cheaper than the labour of pressing out and replacing the bushes themselves.

I have a failed bush and am about to go through this process (at 100,000km).

Chris

[discorevy]

Sway bar "D" bushes can also give those symptoms, if you can move the sway bar sideways through the bushes using a bar or large screwdriver then they'll need doing

[pprass]

...The bushes are typically replaced by replacing the whole Lower Control Arm
Chris
Thanks Chris - any idea of how much these control arms cost (fitted)?

[pprass]

Sway bar "D" bushes can also give those symptoms, if you can move the sway bar sideways through the bushes using a bar or large screwdriver then they'll need doing

Thanks - I'll check them out.

[winaje]

Thanks Chris - any idea of how much these control arms cost (fitted)?

I recently bought Meyle lower control arms as well as front and rear sway bar bushes and links delivered from Advanced Factors for about $800. Fitment I'm not sure of as I did it myself. You'll need a full 4 wheel alignment too.

[cjc_td5]

Thanks Chris - any idea of how much these control arms cost (fitted)?
I have found them for around $450 each (Australian supplier) if I go with replacing them myself. Landrover quoted me $1400 for complete replacement of both sides, including wheel alignment. This seems quite competitive apart from the lost days work in taking it to Perth for a day....

[BigJon]

I do genuine arms drive in / drive out with alignment for about $1040. Obviously I am nowhere near you, but it should give you an idea on what price to expect.

[pprass]

I do genuine arms drive in / drive out with alignment for about $1040. Obviously I am nowhere near you, but it should give you an idea on what price to expect.

Come upto PMQ for a weekend BigJon - it is a lovely place and you can work in paradise [smilebigeye]

Peter

[LRD414]

Peter, it's MY15 ..... still in warranty? I had front LCA bushes replaced under warranty at around 40k.

In any case, replacement of bushes alone is feasible and can be cheaper for some places depending on what tooling they have.
If you go with new complete arms make sure to keep the old ones and get them re-bushed as a rotable spare for next time.

Cheers,
Scott

[Milton477]

I would hope that they will be replaced under warranty. I have done 40k from new in 14 months with 20k towing so will probably be in the same boat.

[fisser]

I have travelled 90,000 kms in our MY15 over the past 2 years which has included some very rough heavily corrugated roads towing a caravan. Over that time I have noticed that the front suspension clunks and rattles even when I go over very minor bumps - like one of those cats eyes in the middle of the road. The back suspension is very quite and solid and just rides over any bumps silently. I have a bull bar on the front, but that seems to be very solid and secure.
Is that what others are experiencing with their front suspension when going over bumps?

Hi, I had the same issue in my MY11 with about 91k on the clock. I purchased the Lwr control arm bushes from a suspension supplier here in Sydney and then had them fitted. They are poly units rather than original Land Rover. They will hopefully never need replacing again. :) The Fronts were $155 and the rears $150. When fitting them, the Front outer ball joints were a little buggered so I replaced them as well ($141) About $1200 all up inc labour. Smooth as a baby's bum now.

[cjc_td5]

I would hope that they will be replaced under warranty. I have done 40k from new in 14 months with 20k towing so will probably be in the same boat.

I just had mine refused under (extended) warranty at 37 months and 99,000km. They said kms was the killer factor.

At least having them done outside warranty gives me more choice of method of replacement (dealer, independent, or do it myself) and will also give me the old arms to fit new bushes at my leisure for next time.

Chris

[pprass]

Peter, it's MY15 ..... still in warranty? I had front LCA bushes replaced under warranty at around 40k.
Scott

I'll ask Scott because I reckon I could hear a rattle when it was just about new!

[pprass]

I'll ask Scott because I reckon I could hear a rattle when it was just about new!

Just had the front end checked by the dealer here in PMQ and - yep Lower Control Arm bushes it is. They are going to replace just the bushes, but to do that they have to order the tooling as well which will take a couple of weeks to get shipped out to them. However the good news is that it is going to be done under warranty [bigsmile]

I also pointed out that the plastic trim below the front windscreen has prematurely weathered and is discoloured and patchy - going to be replaced under warranty as well!

Finally I noticed in the past few days that the automatic head lights that go on when the surrounding light gets down to a certain level, don't switch off when the light becomes brighter. So for instance I start the car in the garage and the auto lights go on, but when I take the car out of the garage into full sunshine they remain on. I tried switching the dial around, but they still stay on.

[letherm]

Finally I noticed in the past few days that the automatic head lights that go on when the surrounding light gets down to a certain level, don't switch off when the light becomes brighter. So for instance I start the car in the garage and the auto lights go on, but when I take the car out of the garage into full sunshine they remain on. I tried switching the dial around, but they still stay on.

The usually stay on for a while even if it's sunny. From memory it was suggested that the sensor area on the windscreen should be cleaned. FYI in case you don't know, the sensors for auto lights and wipers sit behind the rear view mirror in that black area at the top of the windscreen. You can see them if you look.

Martin

[pprass]

...FYI in case you don't know, the sensors for auto lights and wipers sit behind the rear view mirror in that black area at the top of the windscreen...
I thought those were the sensors for the auto wipers!! Are there 2 sensors in that area behind the rear view mirror? Just had my windscreen replaced last week so it is a bit suss!
Peter

[cjc_td5]

I thought those were the sensors for the auto wipers!! Are there 2 sensors in that area behind the rear view mirror? Just had my windscreen replaced last week so it is a bit suss!
Peter
I would say it may be related Peter. I think the auto wipers & lights uses the same sensor(s)? LandyAndy had issues with lights and wipers some time ago and had these sensors replaced.

[cjc_td5]

Good score with the LCAs under warranty pprass. I have 2 new arms here ready for install. This weekend's job me thinks....

[l00kin4]

I would say it may be related Peter. I think the auto wipers & lights uses the same sensor(s)?

Yes.
126849

[LRD414]

They are going to replace just the bushes, but to do that they have to order the tooling as well which will take a couple of weeks to get shipped out to them. However the good news is that it is going to be done under warranty

I also pointed out that the plastic trim below the front windscreen has prematurely weathered and is discoloured and patchy - going to be replaced under warranty as well!

Finally I noticed in the past few days that the automatic head lights that go on when the surrounding light gets down to a certain level, don't switch off when the light becomes brighter.
I've had the same done as you under warranty.
Front LCA bushes at around 45 or 50,000 I think it was. Dealers used to change complete arms but now do bushes.
Windscreen cowl earlier this year at about 2.5 years old and this seems very common.
The sensor issue will be related to the windscreen replacement as mentioned already.

Cheers,
Scott

[pprass]

Well - I just went back to O'brien's and they said that there is no sensor in my windscreen for the lights!
I am going back to the dealer to find out what is going on.

[cjc_td5]

I'm half way through replacing my front lower LCAs. Those ball joint tapers are an absolute pig to split. The joint is too tall for my taper splitter and a conventional puller will not budge one. On one side it released by jacking up onto the joint stud (with the nut released by 5mm) to place the whole weight of the vehicle on the taper. Even this on the 2nd side will not budge it. Tried heat and a tap with a FBH. Looks like a trip to the auto store tomorrow morning to see if I can source a bigger taper splitter..... Once I get the taper released it will take less than an hour to remove and install the new arm.

[LRD414]

I'm half way through replacing my front lower LCAs. Those ball joint tapers are an absolute pig to split.
Chris, this is why I'm thinking the bush press tool set is the better option and just change bushes on vehicle.

Scott

[cjc_td5]

Chris, this is why I'm thinking the bush press tool set is the better option and just change bushes on vehicle.

Scott
Not sure you could change the bushes insitu? The bushes sit in recesses in the subframe so the arm would have to be partially removed to get to the bushes anyway.

[LRD414]

Not sure you could change the bushes insitu? The bushes sit in recesses in the subframe so the arm would have to be partially removed to get to the bushes anyway.
That's right but no need to touch ball joint or half shaft, three bolts to undo. See this thread:
Front LCA rear bush remover tool for loan! Central Coast NSW (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/240987-front-lca-rear-bush-remover-tool-loan-central-coast-nsw.html)

And this thread:
DIY Lower Control Arm Bush Replacement (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/256680-diy-lower-control-arm-bush-replacement.html)

Cheers,
Scott

[cjc_td5]

Yay, the power of google. I have tried most tricks but a goigle search extolled the success of a sharp tap on the shank near the taper. Sure enough, 2 whacks with a drift and FBH and it popped free 😁😁. Tomorrow mornings job to finish it off.

Scott, thanks for the link, interesting. I already have a shop press so wouldn't be investing in another puller. The arm can be removed without having to disturb the half shaft. Undo 4 bolts/nuts and it will come free with a bit of wriggling about. Once I had it out it took about 30mins to install the new one.

I'm half way through replacing my front lower LCAs. Those ball joint tapers are an absolute pig to split. The joint is too tall for my taper splitter and a conventional puller will not budge one. On one side it released by jacking up onto the joint stud (with the nut released by 5mm) to place the whole weight of the vehicle on the taper. Even this on the 2nd side will not budge it. Tried heat and a tap with a FBH. Looks like a trip to the auto store tomorrow morning to see if I can source a bigger taper splitter..... Once I get the taper released it will take less than an hour to remove and install the new arm.

[cjc_td5]

Two new front lower LCAs installed. A wheel alignment is booked for tomorrow.

A few observations:
1) A 24mm deep reach socket is of huge value to access the LCA bolts.
2) The swivel ball joint tapers were a pig to release. Ended up needing a puller done up as tight as possible, a heap of WD40 and a sharp hit from the side on the shank to release them. It took 2hrs per side just to release the tapers...:bat::bat:
3) The workshop manual does not say to remove the protection guard near the rear LCA mounts but it has to be removed to access these bolts... It is easy enough to remove, just 5x 10mm bolts.
4) The LH rear LCA nut is a ***** to access due to the exhaust right next to it. A deep socket is too long so was ring spanner only... (see comment below about chassis height..)
5) The workshop manual says to lower the vehicle to Access Height, I presume so that the strut is at a manageable length for disconnection etc. Make sure that when you jack up the vehicle to place it on stands you raise it right up. If you lift it only enough to get the wheels off the ground, the chassis is still very close to the ground and you will be spending a lot of time wriggling around under there, especially if you have not taken off the protection guard yet. It also meant that my ring spanners would not swing through under the vehicle as they would hit the ground, greatly slowing things down. :bat::bat:
6) It is not necessary to disturb the half shaft. The outer joint can be separated with the CV in place. If you are going to release it, you will need a big socket. I didn't measure the size but it was certainly bigger than anything in my collection.
7) Other than the tapers issues above, the job should take less than 2hrs per side.

Fun fun fun [thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig]. I'm still happy to have done it myself though.

Cheers,
Chris

[Plane Fixer]

Be aware there is a height dimension before doing up the bush through bolts so the bush is not under stress at normal height. I also replaced sway bar bushes at the same time.

[PerthDisco]

6) It is not necessary to disturb the half shaft. The outer joint can be separated with the CV in place. If you are going to release it, you will need a big socket. I didn't measure the size but it was certainly bigger than anything in my collection.

[PerthDisco]

6) It is not necessary to disturb the half shaft. The outer joint can be separated with the CV in place. If you are going to release it, you will need a big socket. I didn't measure the size but it was certainly bigger than anything in my collection.


It's 32mm I think the hub nut. Should not be reused I believe. It must be a common size as 32m sockets are easy to find in tool shops.

Did you just use the sliding movement in the outer CV or actually open the boot and split it thereby needing a new clamp for the boot?

[cjc_td5]

It's 32mm I think the hub nut. Should not be reused I believe. It must be a common size as 32m sockets are easy to find in tool shops.

Did you just use the sliding movement in the outer CV or actually open the boot and split it thereby needing a new clamp for the boot?
I found that if I let the inboard arm ends drop to the ground, with a bit of wriggling, I could get the swivel end ball joint clear of the swivel hub without damaging the CV boot. You lay the ball joint over at an angle as it comes out of the hole to let the arm clear the CV boot.

[PerthDisco]

I never understood the reason for releasing the hub nut and pushing the shaft back. Is it all about clearance for the LCA?

[winaje]

I never understood the reason for releasing the hub nut and pushing the shaft back. Is it all about clearance for the LCA?
Makes it much easier to remove the lower ball joint out of the bearing housing arm thingy. No clearance on the outer CV joint.

[PerthDisco]

And was the rear bolt difficult to remove?

[cjc_td5]

And was the rear bolt difficult to remove?

The rear bolt on the LHS is only difficult to remove as the Cat sits right behind the nut so a deep socket will not fit. I would usually use my breaker bar to crack the nut loose, but a 24mm ring spanner was all I had that would fit it. Due to the length of the large spanner and the low height I had the vehicle on stands, it would not swing through any reasonable swing without hitting the ground. It was also difficult to get anywhere near the correct torque when tightening, but I was not too concerned about this as I knew the bolt would be disturbed again during the wheel alignment the next day. Setting the vehicle much higher on the stands would have alleviated most of these issues.

[PerthDisco]

But the bolt was not seized frozen in the bush?

[cjc_td5]

But the bolt was not seized frozen in the bush?
No mate. Other than the swivel tapers being hard to split, all other bolts were easy to tap out. I had heard that seized bolts could be an issue but I had no issues.

[pprass]

Well after waiting a month for the dealer to get hold of the tool to remove and re-insert the bushes - I am going to get the whole lower control arms replaced.
The dealer ordered the tool from another dealer, but when it arrived a part was missing. They then ordered it from J-LR in Sydney - but after another week waiting - they couldn't find it. So in the end the service manager said - stuff it - give him a whole new assembly under warranty!