Rough idling / stalling

[ScotchRocks]

Hey there discoverers,

Normally I would post hunt to try and diagnose, but I am short on time and looking for help!

Today Gary lost power and crawled to a side-road stop. No fluids on the road or warning lamps.
Quick check of the engine bay, nothing seemed amiss.
Tried to start him again, would kick off fine, but then stall out instead of idling.
Nanocom showing NO fault codes logged >:(.
Pulled out ECU and checked for oil at the plug, none there.

Quick google said maybe Crank Position Sensor loose from when he had a top end rebuild a few months ago. Climbed underneath and jiggled, felt fine but a bit oily.
Sprayed contact cleaner at it as best I could via engine bay.

Eventually managed to limp home, but still exhibiting 'I want to stall' behaviour at idle. Throttle wasn't doing much, could be TPS?
Air cleaner is fine.

Still learning all the td5 things, any ideas on where to look next?
Still no fault codes logged.
Without advice, my next step is probably remove, check, clean and reconnect all engine harness plugs.

Thoughts?

[trout1105]

Fuel filter Blocked ?

[ScotchRocks]

Fuel filter Blocked ?

Its only been about 4 tanks since it was changed at service, but I will check.

[ScotchRocks]

Just had a very scary thought.
Only thing that has changed since I drove Gary last night is I filled up with BP Ultimate Diesel on the way home (approx 6 kms away, took 65.6 0L/95 L).
I remember thinking at the bowser that it didn't smell particularly Diesel-ey going in. Then I don't usually stop at BP, this one was just convenient.
Checked the receipt and definitely Ult. Diesel.
I am assuming catastrophic fuel system and engine failure would be the outcome and not what i have described above?
Opened the filler cap and smells diesel-y...
Called the store and they verified my purchase and said they have had no notification of quality issues.
Could BP be buying me a new land rover? Am I being paranoid?

[rangieman]

Fuel pump[wink11]

[sierrafery]

+1 for the pump, can you hear it running?, if not swap the relay to rule it out albeit even if it's running it can have the HP side dead

[AK83]

Just had a very scary thought.
Only thing that has changed since I drove Gary last night is I filled up with BP Ultimate Diesel on the way home (approx 6 kms away, took 65.6 0L/95 L).
I remember thinking at the bowser that it didn't smell particularly Diesel-ey going in. Then I don't usually stop at BP, this one was just convenient.
Checked the receipt and definitely Ult. Diesel.
I am assuming catastrophic fuel system and engine failure would be the outcome and not what i have described above?
Opened the filler cap and smells diesel-y...
Called the store and they verified my purchase and said they have had no notification of quality issues.
Could BP be buying me a new land rover? Am I being paranoid?

If not fuel pump, and it is the fuel, it could be 'contaminated' .. not so much simply bad fuel.

Brother had rough idle, bad power causing a vibration at 2000RPMs for a few weeks, about a week after we did a service on it.
It didn't click to him that immediately after he filled up at a United station, that the car started running rough.
For the next fill, a week or two later, same United station .. still same issue.
On his last fill, after we changed MAF, cleaned old one, cleaned MAP sensor, and some other bits and stuff.. he filled up early this week with BP and a few minutes later, his TD5 was all back to normal, and more importantly the vibe at 2000RPM had completely gone.

A mate of ours that drives tankers for a major wholesaler reckons there's a 99.9% chance that the last idiot tanker driver accidentally splashed in some petrol into the diesel tank at the United station, and to not get into trouble didn't report it.
He reckons it's a lot more common that we know of!

[ScotchRocks]

How difficult is removal / replacement of the fuel pump without the super swish 1/2 inch socket adaptor tool thingo?
Will check relays/voltage drop. Pump has been 'noisy' for a while - but my understanding is they are all noisy?
Don't have a compression test kit though to check HP line pressure. Perhaps acquiring one for accurate diagnosis before shelling for a $500 part would be a better idea?
Regardless the fuel pump has been on my list of 'preventative things to do before year long leaving in December trip' so i might just change it and see if it fixes it.
Had a look at the top of the pump the other day and is the original 2003 one that has done nearly 240 000 k's with various other owners.
Any insight on the prevalence of non return valve failure in the fuel filter assembly LP return line? Should probably check it....
Anything else to do/check if I am going to swap pump?
(Other than hose /electrics inspection and the usual ancillaries).

[trout1105]

Isn't the fuel pump electric inside the fuel tank on the TD5's ?

[bob10]

Hey there discoverers,

Normally I would post hunt to try and diagnose, but I am short on time and looking for help!

Today Gary lost power and crawled to a side-road stop. No fluids on the road or warning lamps.
Quick check of the engine bay, nothing seemed amiss.
Tried to start him again, would kick off fine, but then stall out instead of idling.
Nanocom showing NO fault codes logged >:(.
Pulled out ECU and checked for oil at the plug, none there.

Quick google said maybe Crank Position Sensor loose from when he had a top end rebuild a few months ago. Climbed underneath and jiggled, felt fine but a bit oily.
Sprayed contact cleaner at it as best I could via engine bay.

Eventually managed to limp home, but still exhibiting 'I want to stall' behaviour at idle. Throttle wasn't doing much, could be TPS?
Air cleaner is fine.

Still learning all the td5 things, any ideas on where to look next?
Still no fault codes logged.
Without advice, my next step is probably remove, check, clean and reconnect all engine harness plugs.

Thoughts?

I remember this happened to a member, TROG, on their big lap. they went thru 2 or 3 fuel pumps , and when they got back to Brisbane, the local LR shop diagnosed an air bleed valve, a 75 cent bit with a hole thru it that swelled when wet, stopping fuel being bled back to the fuel tank. Look at your fuel filter, the closest pipe to you , on the left, has this valve in it. If it is stuffed, it allows too much fuel back to the tank, creating the symptoms you describe. Good luck.

[ScotchRocks]

Tonight I replaced:

Fuel pump
Fuel pump seal
Fuel filter
Fuel filter non return valve

And I learned:

1. Mario of Roverlord is a champ.
2. Don't have your pump fail with a full tank. Probably should have siphoned some into a jerry can.
3. A BiC with the ink and end cap removed gaffer taped to a length of hose makes a great vacuum cleaner attachment for removing red dust from around the fuel pump.
4a. You don't need the special tool to remove the pump retainer collar. Persuader and an old screwdriver do the trick.
4b. Pump seal is not your friend.
5. The brown paper cushioning material inside the VDO box is very diesel absorbent.
6. Hand tight and hand loose on my fuel filter seem to be very different things. Have a spare filter wrench.
7. Head torches are not just great for camping! (But I already knew that)
8. The click of the torque wrench at exactly 140 nm on the wheel nuts is a very satisfying sound.

Gary purring like a (very masculine) kitten once more. Thanks all!