ASIC website.....help needed.

[Tins]

Is there anyone here who is familiar with the godawful mess known as the ASIC website? VCAT require me to obtain a Business Name Extract before I can lodge an application, and I have wasted about four hours of my life fruitlessly searching ASIC on how to obtain one, let alone finding the actual extract.

Are all Government websites deliberately impenetrable, do you think?

Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated.

[Bytemrk]

Does this help John?

Business names | ASIC - Australian Securities and Investments Commission (http://asic.gov.au/online-services/search-asics-registers/business-names/)

[Tins]

Does this help John?

Business names | ASIC - Australian Securities and Investments Commission (http://asic.gov.au/online-services/search-asics-registers/business-names/)

Thanks, Mark, but no, unfortunately. Been there a few times. The stupid part is that I have already given VCAT the Business Name, the name of the principal, AND the ABN, but the form will not submit until I upload this mythical extract.

[PLR]

Thanks, Mark, but no, unfortunately. Been there a few times. The stupid part is that I have already given VCAT the Business Name, the name of the principal, AND the ABN, but the form will not submit until I upload this mythical extract.

You have to buy the extract it is at the bottom of the business name search after you locate the business name in the search if the tractor place its there but cancelled in 1991 and you can buy an extract current $9 current and historic $17

[Tins]

You have to buy the extract it is at the bottom of the business name search after you locate the business name in the search if the tractor place its there but cancelled in 1991 and you can buy an extract current $9 current and historic $17

Hmm. Thanks, PLR. I'll look again.......

[Tins]

You have to buy the extract it is at the bottom of the business name search after you locate the business name in the search if the tractor place its there but cancelled in 1991 and you can buy an extract current $9 current and historic $17

The '91 one isn't it. Neither is the Courier one. The only other one I can find is the current one, which I don't want. Still, I think I'm getting closer.

[Tins]

Hmm. Thanks, PLR. I'll look again.......

The VCAT form requires an Extract for the individual, who I can find on the ASIC site, with the business name and address for serving of documents, which I cannot. The "Checkout" button is greyed out, and there is nowhere I can see to purchase. GRRR. Have to spend half of tomorrow on the 'phone, it seems.

[Tins]

OK, it's sorted, sort of. Seems the individual hasn't been registered for some time. So I have reluctantly taken a different path.

[NavyDiver]

Thats sounds like it will be better for you anyway. If a Company the liability of share holders and directors is limited to company capital which is often Zero in micro companies and used to hide some by scoundrels in business. If not a company an individual is probably a much easier target if legal recovery action is needed except of course if they are dirt poor or rich with rotten lawyers and bankrupt while rich with hidden trusts.

A business-person trying to hide behind a deregistered company is still just a person or a few people with real liabilities hanging on them I would guess.

[NavyDiver]

You mentioned the ABN - http://abr.business.gov.au/ might give you a few more leads to the person.

[incisor]

If you don't make at least 100k per year you are better off as a registered business

Otherwise buy the oldest shelf company you can find as their are different rules for the older ones

[Tins]

You mentioned the ABN - http://abr.business.gov.au/ might give you a few more leads to the person.

Thanks, ND. That's where I finally found that the ABN I knew of was cancelled in 2006. I am left with no option but to pursue the business in it's current form, which is tough on the new bloke, but in reality he bought it with stuff hanging around. The whole thing leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself seems to be a long forgotten motto.

[trout1105]

Thanks, ND. That's where I finally found that the ABN I knew of was cancelled in 2006. I am left with no option but to pursue the business in it's current form, which is tough on the new bloke, but in reality he bought it with stuff hanging around. The whole thing leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself seems to be a long forgotten motto.

Yes a spit and a handshake doesn't seem to carry much weight these days Mate.

[Tins]

Yes a spit and a handshake doesn't seem to carry much weight these days Mate.

None at all, Fish. None at all.

[350RRC]

Yes a spit and a handshake doesn't seem to carry much weight these days Mate.

I could tell a couple of stories about handshake deals that are still done, rock solid and worth big bucks.

Still alive and well.

DL

[trout1105]

I could tell a couple of stories about handshake deals that are still done, rock solid and worth big bucks.

Still alive and well.

DL

I agree a handshake deal can still be done But it is becoming a pretty rare event nowadays.

[350RRC]

I agree a handshake deal can still be done But it is becoming a pretty rare event nowadays.

The ongoing relationships in this type of dealing won't change things if the personal relationships don't.

I've worked for myself for over 40 years and only have one outstanding debt to me.......... $50. I knew it was suss at the time haha.

DL

[NavyDiver]

Thanks, ND. That's where I finally found that the ABN I knew of was cancelled in 2006. ...

Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself seems to be a long forgotten motto.

I altered this a little. "Do unto others as you would have them do to you" is now for me "Do unto others as they do to me". I treat everyone with respect until they cross the line.

I think or find 99% of people are trustworthy. The 1% who think I am a nasty, fowl mouthed, horrible bully see me exactly as they treated me [bigwhistle]

Re re the new owner. They might have his/her/their own redress on the prior sod you got to deal with. Sale of any business needs a Sec 52. If its is false or defective or not provided then actions are possible by the new owner. Not an issue for you but given the circumstances you might like to mention this to them.

Re Cancelled ABN. I wonder also if the sod your looking for broke any ABN/GST/Tax regulations. Tax evasion reporting form | Australian Taxation Office (https://www.ato.gov.au/Forms/Tax-evasion-reporting-form/) IF he failed to be registered hen needing to be or failed to pay tax in the sale of the business or GST
Most shocky types seem to be happy for 'us' to pay lots of tax for the services they use but usually forget to pay themselves. :bat:

[Tins]

Re re the new owner. They might have his/her/their own redress on the prior sod you got to deal with. Sale of any business needs a Sec 52. If its is false or defective or not provided then actions are possible by the new owner. Not an issue for you but given the circumstances you might like to mention this to them.

I think the fact that I had to use the new bloke may get something rolling.


Re Cancelled ABN. I wonder also if the sod your looking for broke any ABN/GST/Tax regulations. Tax evasion reporting form | Australian Taxation Office (https://www.ato.gov.au/Forms/Tax-evasion-reporting-form/) IF he failed to be registered hen needing to be or failed to pay tax in the sale of the business or GST
Most shocky types seem to be happy for 'us' to pay lots of tax for the services they use but usually forget to pay themselves. :bat:

It is of course possible that there was a new ABN that is unknown to me. I imagine some of this will come out in the wash.

[NavyDiver]

If you don't make at least 100k per year you are better off as a registered business

Otherwise buy the oldest shelf company you can find as their are different rules for the older ones

Registered business name can can be held by you or I as individuals, Partnerships or companies or even trusts via all of those. A REgistered business name is more a trade mark and is not itself a entity. Life can get confusing and complicated. [biggrin]

I think registering a company is much cheaper and much safer than possibly picking up unknown liabilities that the prior life of a shelf company just might bite you with. [wink11]

I registered two companies- one for Australia Post making a delivery driver his own business so they do not pay super. leave or other costs for him ( my dad) and one for my business. It can be a pain with additional accounting costs, ASIC paper work and fees and insurances having a company. I would remain a sole trader or individual if possible below 200k turn over. Sole traders in my view are the most trust worthy as they are personally liable for costs. We all know of sod who rack up huge debts and walk away from big or small companies leaving employees, suppliers and creditors with huge debts:soapbox:

[NavyDiver]

I think the fact that I had to use the new bloke may get something rolling.



It is of course possible that there was a new ABN that is unknown to me. I imagine some of this will come out in the wash.

Assume the new guy paid the sod some or lots of money. They have details and leverage on the sod it is tough for you or I to get hold of. Hope it all works out

[incisor]

I think registering a company is much cheaper and much safer than possibly picking up unknown liabilities that the prior life of a shelf company just might bite you with. [wink11]


that certainly wasn't my experience...

[biggrin]

it actually saved me 85k [thumbsupbig]

[NavyDiver]

that certainly wasn't my experience...

[biggrin]

it actually saved me 85k [thumbsupbig]

I did a DIY job for both at about $450 each I think. ASIC fee indexation | ASIC - Australian Securities and Investments Commission (http://asic.gov.au/for-business/payments-fees-and-invoices/asic-fees/asic-fee-indexation/)

Rotten inflation takes it to $479, Shelf companies are supposed to be fully cleansed. I do know of one or two where this did not work and the mess was very very messy.

[incisor]

I did a DIY job for both at about $450 each I think. ASIC fee indexation | ASIC - Australian Securities and Investments Commission (http://asic.gov.au/for-business/payments-fees-and-invoices/asic-fees/asic-fee-indexation/)

Rotten inflation takes it to $479

i used a legal eagal and it cost me $600 from memory

was worth every penny many times over in the end as he knew what he was doing and when i was the subject of a fraud quite a few years later, it paid big dividends.

imho later company rules offer little to no benefit / protection over a registered business to a sole trader if you arent earning the money needed to justify it or have some sort of trust you need to be propping up last time i bothered to look at it all.

horses for courses when it's all said and done.

[rangieman]

John Im feeling your pain [wink11]
Would love to visit this person:bat:

[Tins]

Would love to visit this person:bat:

Can you wait until I have a result, Chris??[bigsad]

[rangieman]

Can you wait until I have a result, Chris??[bigsad]
Only for tea and scones [bigwhistle]

[Tins]

Only for tea and scones [bigwhistle]

You making them?

Car should have been at Wombat last year. Should have been coming this year. At this point I think I'll be walking. Can I come to Wombat on a Vicroads permit?

All to save $2K.

[rangieman]

You making them?

Car should have been at Wombat last year. Should have been coming this year. At this point I think I'll be walking. Can I come to Wombat on a Vicroads permit?

All to save $2K.
You could hitch a ride in my D2 [bigwhistle]

[Tins]

You could hitch a ride in my D2 [bigwhistle]

Might take you up on that. It would be the closest I've come to a going D2 in quite a while.