Is this typical?

[DiscoMick]

So, against my better judgement, we got the NBN through Optus recently and it's been interesting.
We just went for a 12 Mbs plan, figuring we could upgrade later if necessary.
It was installed on a Monday and stopped working on Tuesday, so the wife spent an hour on the phone to Optus, whose advice was - you guessed it - turn it off and on again (just like The IT Crowd).
Next day it was off again, so the wife rang and got the same advice.
Thursday it was off again, so the irate wife rang again and got the same advice.
She informed the bloke she had made three phone calls totalling four hours that week and, if it happened again, we would be cancelling the NBN and going back to ADSL. He said if it happened again the case would be referred to the NBN.
Next day, Friday, you guessed it, it was off again. The wife rang Friday night to cancel the service and was told cancellations could only be done on weekdays. So we switched it off and on and went away for the weekend.
Since then it was OK until this morning, when it was off again. Didn't even bother call Optus. Just went through the same off-on routine.
I notice when downloading some times it just freezes and restarts.
Tonight I downloaded a speed tester and ran several tests. Download speeds ranged from 2-8 Mbs while uploads were below 2. Maybe the neighbor was watching porn (quite possible).
On TV tonight was a story about complaints about poor NBN performance hitting records.
None of this surprises me as I have said repeatedly the decision to use copper from nodes to homes has strangled the NBN.
My question is, as a new NBN connection, is this typical? Is there any point in upgrading our plan or do we just suffer until some time in the future when the copper is junked for fibre and the job is done properly?
What do you think?

[trout1105]

Don't hold you breath waiting for Full optic speed, The way things are now it ain't going to happen [thumbsupbig]

[JDNSW]

I don't know if it is typical or not, but it is certainly not particularly unusual. And it is not necessarily to do with the type of technology you have whether copper, fibre, wireless or satellite - your comments could apply to any of them. Certainly my impression is that overall the NBN connection is less reliable than the old telephone connection, but this may simply reflect that it is new technology and a new organisation.

Oh, and you can't get ADSL back - if NBN is available at an address, the retailers are barred from selling ADSL.

[Mick_Marsh]

The copper on FTTN is good for 1000Mbps.
Your speed problem is with Optus.

There is an upgrade path. You can always pay to have a fibre connection. Won't help though.

[rovers4]

Hi,

We had ADSL.
NBN arrived via FTTN, a few months ago.

12MBs plan

Got lots of dropouts before, speed varied greatly.

Still get some dropouts, but for shorter time, speed still varies but generally faster. Don't do games/gaming, movies etc.

Did a speed test tonight - nearly the 12. Estimate usual speed around 6MBs. Was around 4.5 on ADSL.

The speed/dropout bit seems to be as a result of usage. A good movie on tv and it is fast.
Nothing special on - expect dropouts. Have noticed this for years.
Worst was during the Olympics - everyone had tv on and on-line too. As soon as the ads came on the I/net dropped out.

If you have local WiFi, try a simple "disconnect" and "connect" from the laptop to the modem by using the facility above the signal strength fan in the bottom of screen bar. This local action seems to send a signal to the modem that it had better get a move on and start talking to the node down the street and to the outside world. It usually gets going much quicker than waiting for a re-power. This way it is workable.

Works for me, anyway.

rovers4

[Wraithe]

A friend of mine(yes I do have a couple that I pay), went from the adsl 1.2m connection to NBN and now has a very slow connection... He went the whole hog plan and regrets changing, can no longer use skype or watch youtube without it having to buffer...

I'm afraid I am sticking with using 4G with a wireless dongle... Way faster than what the NBN people around here are saying about NBN speeds...

[Homestar]

What I have found since going over to the NBN is the router needs to be reset much more often - up to a couple of times a week sometimes, but sometimes it goes for a month without issues.

Below is a list of speed tests on my iPad - so all on wifi - the Ethernet connection to my Sons gaming rig is slightly faster. The 2 results below showing 40 is the 'slow' wifi connection, the faster ones are the 5G connection and the 2 'dial up' speeds I've run when I've had issues - resetting the router has fixed this every time.

As mentioned, your issue is with Optus, not the NBN - they are fobbing you off by saying they'll pass it to them - it's not their issue if it comes good each time you reset your router - that's Optus's problem.

[DiscoMick]

Thanks for the replies, which confirm what I thought.

[trout1105]

I'm afraid I am sticking with using 4G with a wireless dongle... Way faster than what the NBN people around here are saying about NBN speeds...

4G Wireless is also very portable and can be used Anywhere as long as you have connectivity.[thumbsupbig][biggrin]

[Pedro_The_Swift]

We use a dongle in the van,, great invention!
not that we get 4G very often,,
what the hell is 5G?


92?!? now you're just showing off...

[Roverlord off road spares]

Watched the news last night and this NBN we had to have is not reliable. one guy 70 days without internet, There might me legislation coming out for penalties for the NBN and the resellers as customers are not getting what they pay for. And as far as getting things fixed, the reselling Telcos are not quick in responding. Look forward everyone for the frustration you are going to get from this NBN.

[incisor]

Would have been fine if they left the original plan alone...

Sadly it won't get better any time soon for those that have infrastructure issues..

[Mick_Marsh]

NBN: How to check if your plan is delivering speeds promised — and what you can do if it's not - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-26/how-to-check-if-your-nbn-plan-is-delivering-speeds-as-promised/8745998)

[JDNSW]

Would have been fine if they left the original plan alone...
......

I don't know that I can entirely agree with that. NBN was always going to be multi-technology, and I am on one of the technologies that has not changed at all, so I can take a somewhat detached view of what is happening in the cities.

The fundamental problem with the NBN has nothing to do with technology and has been there from its inception. It is that the scheme is required to operate at a profit, so as to keep it out of the federal budget. This means that they must charge CVC (data quantity) prices that make it impossible in most cases for retailers to provide a comparable service to ADSL for the same price . It means that rollout had to be largely on the basis of where it could show the earliest profit rather than on a basis of where it made sense from a technical or needs basis.

As we should expect, a new organisation started from scratch has had and continues to have a lot of problems. These include that it is starting to operate a bit like Telecom used to do - ignoring the customers. For example, where a retail customer cannot be delivered the service they are paying for, because, to take a local example, the fibre link to Dubbo was broken for over a week, the retail customer expects to get some sort of relief from their retailer - but the retailer still has to pay NBN for the unusable service (no service guarantees are available from NBN apparently!).


In my own case, I have been on the NBN Sky Muster for well over a year, so have had a reasonable experience of it. We have had a very unreliable service, whose principal, in fact really only, real advantage is somewhat cheaper data. Still have crippling limits on the amount of data you can buy. I have been waiting for over a year for rectification of a sloppy install and for the interim satellite service equipment to be removed - it belongs to NBN and I am not allowed to touch it..

[AndyG]

Meanwhile in happy Bialla PNG we have 3mb up 1 mb down , shared by 100 people for a not modest $6,000 USD p.m so boo hoo no sympathy here.

CVC charges, i thought NBN only charged for band width not download quantity, ie flat rate p.m. ? I am sure if their was a modest per m.b rate then much of the congestion would disappear, as the majority of crap would disappear.

The problems all sound like contention issues, too many users on the same shared band width. In the above pricing example i pay for 2:1 , 20:1 is the usual poverty pack solution, i suspect you may be up around 50:1 + , so unusable.

If NBN had stuck with fibre only, then the ultimate bill would be twice as high, the resellers would be trying to recoup twice as much and the service would be worse. The quality of service is a pricing issue not a technology issue.

P.S challenge you to find Bialla on a map, town of 5,000 but very shy.

[Homestar]

4G Wireless is also very portable and can be used Anywhere as long as you have connectivity.[thumbsupbig][biggrin]

Yeah, all good if you're only a light user of the internet - I wouldn't want to use 4G and pay for the 800 Gig a month we go through. [biggrin]

[JDNSW]

Meanwhile in happy Bialla PNG we have 3mb up 1 mb down , shared by 100 people for a not modest $6,000 USD p.m so boo hoo no sympathy here.

CVC charges, i thought NBN only charged for band width not download quantity, ie flat rate p.m. ? I am sure if their was a modest per m.b rate then much of the congestion would disappear, as the majority of crap would disappear.

The problems all sound like contention issues, too many users on the same shared band width. In the above pricing example i pay for 2:1 , 20:1 is the usual poverty pack solution, i suspect you may be up around 50:1 + , so unusable.

If NBN had stuck with fibre only, then the ultimate bill would be twice as high, the resellers would be trying to recoup twice as much and the service would be worse. The quality of service is a pricing issue not a technology issue.

P.S challenge you to find Bialla on a map, town of 5,000 but very shy.

You are right - NBN charge on bandwidth, but retailers sell on data quantity. And many of the issues are congestion, although there are also many other issues including, especially for satellite and wireless, but also for fixed line, a lot of unscheduled outages, and installation issues. These are compounded by system that requires customers to talk only to their retailer - who usually have no way of knowing there is a problem until their switchboard is swamped.

My son in Yass had an example of the issues with NBN a few weeks ago - there was a town-wide blackout. Now this meant that with NBN, unless you have fibre and have opted for a backup battery (most now apparently have opted not to have it, and I think Yass is all FTTN anyway) you have no phone. So what happened? Everyone started phoning and/or looking at the web on their phone to find out what was going on - and the mobile service effectively stopped working. Text messages could be sent and received if you made repeated attempts, but phone calls in and out did not work for about an hour.

[AndyG]

There are tools available for ISP's to monitor their network proactively, for example PRTG, PRTG Network Monitor - Powerful Network Monitoring Software (https://www.paessler.com/prtg?)
In a previous life i managed the Comms and Data Room of the largest bank in PNG on a outsource basis, our objective was to know about the outage before the bank and before the Telco, it is doable.

[grey_ghost]

There are tools available for ISP's to monitor their network proactively, for example PRTG, PRTG Network Monitor - Powerful Network Monitoring Software (https://www.paessler.com/prtg?)
In a previous life i managed the Comms and Data Room of the largest bank in PNG on a outsource basis, our objective was to know about the outage before the bank and before the Telco, it is doable.

I use PRTG (at work) with 1,000 sensors to monitor all kinds of servers, routers, switches, links, etc.. It's a great product.

[DiscoMick]

A friend who actually installs the NBN reckons the contractors are charging the NBN up to 10 times what it actually costs to install. He also thinks nodes and copper are junk and fibre was the only way to go.
On that basis, it might have been cheaper for taxpayers to have had the NBN hire a bunch of fulltime staff and send them around the country doing the installs area by area. Once finished they could then have moved on to maintenance. However, the outsourcing model adopted seems to have increased the cost, rather than being the best value for money. Interesting argument.

[AndyG]

Not sure if a cable dragger is the best person to design a multi billlion $ network. Or how he did his costings.
I do recall articles on how the lowest layer of subbies could not cover their costs on the rates they paid. I suspect their are too many layers of sub contractors all adding a % markup. But i say that with no empirical evidence.

[DiscoMick]

Bought a smart TV today and hooked it up to the NBN router. Now to see what it can do. Might get Netflix.

[Mick_Marsh]

A friend who actually installs the NBN reckons the contractors are charging the NBN up to 10 times what it actually costs to install. He also thinks nodes and copper are junk and fibre was the only way to go.
On that basis, it might have been cheaper for taxpayers to have had the NBN hire a bunch of fulltime staff and send them around the country doing the installs area by area. Once finished they could then have moved on to maintenance. However, the outsourcing model adopted seems to have increased the cost, rather than being the best value for money. Interesting argument.

Copper is good for 1000Mbps and is cheaper to install. There is an upgrade path so, if you want faster, you can pay the extra to upgrade to fibre.
Given you only purchased the 10Mbps plan and given 100Mbps is the current fastest available NBN plan, paying the extra for fibre is money better spent elsewhere. That is an even better argument.

[AndyG]

Given that the NBN was designed in concept by the good folk who bought us pink batts and school halls whether you want them or not, we are stuck with this turkey.
However much could be done with the pricing, to reduce congestion,
Reduce the internal rate of return
Ban unlimited plans, either pay per mb over a generous base allowance or drop the speed

In my experience in ISP billing, there is always a small % that hog the majority bandwidth, charging $$$ is the only way to moderate behaviour

[JDNSW]

Given that the NBN was designed in concept by the good folk who bought us pink batts and school halls whether you want them or not, we are stuck with this turkey.
However much could be done with the pricing, to reduce congestion,
Reduce the internal rate of return
Ban unlimited plans, either pay per mb over a generous base allowance or drop the speed

In my experience in ISP billing, there is always a small % that hog the majority bandwidth, charging $$$ is the only way to moderate behaviour

The minimum internal rate of return for government enterprises is apparently legally fixed. If the projected rate of return is less than this, the budget accounting rules require the project to appear in the budget. This would, according to at least one source I have seen, more than double the budget deficit.

How likely do you think it is that any government of whatever flavour would allow that? The only way it could happen is for there to be bipartisan agreement, and in the current political atmosphere, can you see that happening?

A technical fix that could possibly fix congestion would be to charge at the retail level by speed rather than data quantity, with a steeply rising speed cost, but this would require most users to be no more than about 12Mbps - a bit hard to sell with NBN selling 25 for everyone as a basis and serious doubts how long this will be adequate. Or perhaps time of use charging - peak and off peak, used for satellite and wireless but very unpopular.

While I agree there is a small percentage that use most of the data, the problem is not mostly the amount of data used but the fact that most people want to use data at the same time, in the evening peak. With the rising popularity of netflix etc and the coming increases in resolution of everyday video, this is only going to get worse. In fact, there are serious concerns with bandwidth for this sort of development not only with NBN but with networks worldwide.

[Homestar]

The minimum internal rate of return for government enterprises is apparently legally fixed. If the projected rate of return is less than this, the budget accounting rules require the project to appear in the budget. This would, according to at least one source I have seen, more than double the budget deficit.

How likely do you think it is that any government of whatever flavour would allow that? The only way it could happen is for there to be bipartisan agreement, and in the current political atmosphere, can you see that happening?

A technical fix that could possibly fix congestion would be to charge at the retail level by speed rather than data quantity, with a steeply rising speed cost, but this would require most users to be no more than about 12Mbps - a bit hard to sell with NBN selling 25 for everyone as a basis and serious doubts how long this will be adequate. Or perhaps time of use charging - peak and off peak, used for satellite and wireless but very unpopular.

While I agree there is a small percentage that use most of the data, the problem is not mostly the amount of data used but the fact that most people want to use data at the same time, in the evening peak. With the rising popularity of netflix etc and the coming increases in resolution of everyday video, this is only going to get worse. In fact, there are serious concerns with bandwidth for this sort of development not only with NBN but with networks worldwide.

They already do and always have - my 100mbps connection isn't the same price as a 12 or 25 - it's $30 per month just for the speed boost above 25, the data plan is on top of that.

Yes, I've got a great connection that I can use 1000 gig a month on if needed, but I pay a lot for it - nearly $130 a month.

[DiscoMick]

Twice what we're paying for 12 Mbps.

[Tote]

We've got an unlimited plan for around $130 per month at 100MB/s the cost reduction to drop back to 50MB speed is only $10 per month so really isn't worth it. I've never got above 40/40 on the FTTN connection that we have and the speed test the other night was around 12MB/s but it is reliable and with the family consuming around 400GB a month I'm not unhappy with the performance and its still faster than the ADSL that I had previously that topped out at about 4MB/s
The bottleneck is not with the technology, its with the amount of bandwidth that the ISPs have provided and as more people come online it gets worse. Hopefully the focus on bandwidth charged for vs delivered will continue and the ISPs will increase their backbone capacities to cope.

Regards,
Tote

[Homestar]

Twice what we're paying for 12 Mbps.

So not bad value then compared with lower speed connections.

As shown earlier we get between 80 and 90 most of the time - FTTN.

I think we got very lucky as the node we are connected to will only ever service half our street - about 20 homes, whereas the nodes are capable of nearly 100 I think.

Time will tell if it stays at this speed as the rest of the estate is swapped over in the coming 18 months.

[DiscoMick]

I walked around our immediate area and couldn't even find our node, so it must be a fair distance away or else hidden.

At the moment 12 Mpbs is enough for the two of us, but we'll see what happens. The wife is having a bit of a gorge on downloading old episodes of Sea Patrol at the moment while she's in bed with the Influenza Brisbane, so we'll see how that goes.

[DiscoMick]

Given that the NBN was designed in concept by the good folk who bought us pink batts and school halls whether you want them or not, we are stuck with this turkey.
However much could be done with the pricing, to reduce congestion,
Reduce the internal rate of return
Ban unlimited plans, either pay per mb over a generous base allowance or drop the speed

In my experience in ISP billing, there is always a small % that hog the majority bandwidth, charging $$$ is the only way to moderate behaviour

It was the contractors who caused the problems with pink batts and school halls, so that's actually an argument against contracting and in favour of doing it in-house.

[Homestar]

Let's stop the chatter on bats and halls now please - it will only turn Political - none of that here please.

[AndyG]

I blame the cyclists [tonguewink]

[AndyG]

And it all began here, well almost began in 2010

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2010/11/24/1225960/243308-nbn-business-case.pdf

How the heck do you build a business with this sort of philosophy, three entirely different cost structures at the same price !

A 12Mbps downstream and 1Mbps upstream entry-level offer across allthree access technologies (i.e. fibre, wireless & satellite), at the same price(network ubiquity).

I think i will stick with reading Poor fella my Country, Xavier Herbert, slightly less fictional

[Tote]

They must be watching this thread, this was in my email tonight.




Important information about your NBN™ connection speed


Hello xxxxxx,


We’re writing to give you more information about your connection speed on the National Broadband Network.


NBNCo has connected your property using Fibre-to-the-Node (FTTN) technology. This means that copper cabling has been used to connect your premises to a “node” in your street, or a street nearby.



The internet speeds you experience are affected by the length and quality of the copper cabling that NBNCo has used, which means that the speeds you experience may be less than desired.


NBNCo estimates that your current NBN™ line speed is: 52.019 Mbps

NBNCo is investigating ways to improve the line speeds in your local area.


The team here at Internode understands that you may be on an NBN™ plan with a speed tier that doesn’t suit your line speed. If you’d like to switch to a plan on a lower speed tier, we’ll make sure that any downgrade fees are waived. However, please note that call inclusions vary.


You can change your plan in My Internode. If you’d prefer to stay on your current plan, then you don’t need to do anything.


Regards,
Tote


PS. They must have done something to their network in the last few days though, these results are a lot better than the results I got last time I tested it.

[Tins]

Bought a smart TV today and hooked it up to the NBN router. Now to see what it can do. Might get Netflix.

I get Netflix just fine on ADSL2+, so if you don't on the NBN..... I even get it fine through a VPN[bigwhistle]

Netflix does modify it's streaming based on your connection though, or so I believe.

[Tins]

Yes, I've got a great connection that I can use 1000 gig a month on if needed, but I pay a lot for it - nearly $130 a month.

Where I am, in a so called 'regional' area, I pay about $15 less than that, for 700 GB a month less. Does include calls though.

Not exactly high speed.

127044

I live about 40 km from the CBD as the crow flies. I'll get FTTN in around 18 months, allegedly, so absolutely no chance of improvements being done before then. :2up:

The whole thing is a sick joke, IMO.

[DiscoMick]

So there are by my count 74 NBN service providers according to a helpful letter NBN sent to us today. I've never heard of most of them.
Apart from price, is there any actual advantage in switching away from the well known ones? Would the service improve if we dumped Optus, or is it just about price.
BTW we had two more dropouts over the weekend. Same deal - switch it off and on and it comes back.

[Mick_Marsh]

As far as the NBN, it's the same no matter who your ISP is.
As far as your internet, it depends on what deal your ISP has struck with NBNCo.

[Homestar]

I've stuck with Telstra as they seem to be the one of the few that are capable of supplying what is promised (not to all, no but they can and did in my case). As Mick says, the actual NBN is all the same, it's the ISP that will limit the connection speed and bandwidth you get, and who also supplies the modem - there are other options for a modem by the way, you don't need to put up with a **** $20 special your ISP gives you, which may help your reliability greatly as well.

[Tins]

So there are by my count 74 NBN service providers according to a helpful letter NBN sent to us today. I've never heard of most of them.
Apart from price, is there any actual advantage in switching away from the well known ones? Would the service improve if we dumped Optus, or is it just about price.
BTW we had two more dropouts over the weekend. Same deal - switch it off and on and it comes back.

There is only one thing I'll say here, and that is: even if hell freezes over I will never, ever in my life ever use Telstra ever again. I am on first name terms with a number of people at the TIO's office due to T's unbelievably poor customer service and complaints resolution service. Their billing service is even worse. Never in my life has any organisation left such a bad taste in my mouth. I have wasted more than twelve months of my life fighting that mob.


Just sayin'. Oh, whoops, is that naming and shaming?

[trout1105]

There is only one thing I'll say here, and that is: even if hell freezes over I will never, ever in my life ever use Telstra ever again. I am on first name terms with a number of people at the TIO's office due to T's unbelievably poor customer service and complaints resolution service. Their billing service is even worse. Never in my life has any organisation left such a bad taste in my mouth. I have wasted more than twelve months of my life fighting that mob.


Just sayin'. Oh, whoops, is that naming and shaming?

I have to agree that the customer service is atrocious and that the company is a Dog but unfortunately they are the TOP Dog and have the best coverage out of all the other providers.
So unless you live in the city or a main provincial town your choice is severely limited.
In the majority of remote towns and other areas in Australia if you don't connect using Telstra you won't have any phone reception or internet connectivity at all.

[Tins]

I have to agree that the customer service is atrocious and that the company is a Dog but unfortunately they are the TOP Dog and have the best coverage out of all the other providers.
So unless you live in the city or a main provincial town your choice is severely limited.
In the majority of remote towns and other areas in Australia if you don't connect using Telstra you won't have any phone reception or internet connectivity at all.

Yep, and that is the bit that really sucks. It is the major failing of the Telstra sale, and shows clearly why Government should not get involved with business. I chose to use a mobile provider that piggybacked on T's networks, as I was often off the beaten track, and even then, that provider was restricted by this "former" monopoly. In my view, T is anti competition and should be a serious focus of the ACCC, but the legislation precludes it.

In a country this vast, with a population this sparse, the idea that service providers should have to duplicate, or triplicate, or quadruplicate and so on infrastructure for something as basic and essential as communication is an indictment on us as a society. It is truly pathetic.

[SBD4]

So there are by my count 74 NBN service providers according to a helpful letter NBN sent to us today. I've never heard of most of them.
Apart from price, is there any actual advantage in switching away from the well known ones? Would the service improve if we dumped Optus, or is it just about price.
BTW we had two more dropouts over the weekend. Same deal - switch it off and on and it comes back.
Mick, There are stack of things that can affect the performance of your FTTN service:

Check this map to find out the estimated distance you are from your node along with a gestimate of the speed that should be achievable(Search for your address then click the dot).
NBN MTM Alpha (http://nbnmtm.australiaeast.cloudapp.azure.com/nbnmtm.html)

In your home:
Remedying old wiring can give possibly the biggest improvement, people have seen significant improvement in speed and reliability by doing the following:

Before starting this process get a baseline of your modems sync speeds. This is the speed at which data can be transferred up/down with the current line quality. This information is available from the modems management console which you should be able to log into and retrieve. This speed should hopefully be close to what you got from the map above. If it is then your line quality is good - your attention will be more focused on reducing the dropouts.
Disconnect wiring to all outlets other than the one your modem is connected to so you just have the single line running to your modems wall plug(no branches/joins)
ideally have a new cat5/6 cable run from the lead-in (cable that comes from the street) to your modems location.
Make sure the cable is kept away from power wiring
Make sure the cable is not routed near fridges/washing machines/driers etc. The starting and stopping of motors will induce interference in cables run near them causing dropouts.
make sure the modem has clean power - a surge protector can help with this
Check your modems sync speeds again to see if you have achieved improvement - ideally your sync speed will be similar to that estimated on the map above


Once your internal wiring is in order, you can check if any further limitation is related to your connection (poor copper quality or distance) back to the node or is a limitation of your ISP:

If your sync speed is significantly lower than what the map above estimates you should get then it is likely you have an issue with the line between your house and the node. Complain to your RSP so they can have NBN sort it out (good luck).
If your sync speed exceeds your plan then then you should expect to get your full plan speed. Your RSP will limit your speed to the plan. (Use an online speed test tool to check your actual speeds)
if you are getting much less than your plan and less than your sync speed then this points to an issue with your RSP. This will be most evident with slow downs in the evening when more people are online and things get busy. This happens because your RSP has oversold the bandwidth they have purchased from NBN for your locality (this is called CVC). I.E. they have bought capacity for 100 subscribers but sold it to 1000 - while not many are using it performance is fine, but when everyone is using it it is terrible. This is when you need to be looking for a new RSP and as much as people put them down, Telstra is one of the best performers (it's their customer service that lets them down), Aussie Broadband has an excellent reputation on all fronts.
If your sync speed is lower than your plan speed eg plan speed is 100/40 but sync speed is 70/30 then this may well be due to the physical limitations of the line such as your distance from the node - nothing can be done about this.


Unfortunately with FTTN, users need to do everything they can to make sure their home wiring is in order. Getting a licensed cabler to do this is most effective. Once this is done it removes a factor that the RSP/NBN can blame on you.

In your particular case it looks like you need to sort wiring to stop the dropouts and change RSPs to get rid of the slowdowns. If the dropouts continue, there are steps that can be taken to see if the problem is internal or external but, that will be next.

Hope this helps a bit.

[DiscoMick]

Mick, There are stack of things that can affect the performance of your FTTN service:

Check this map to find out the estimated distance you are from your node along with a gestimate of the speed that should be achievable(Search for your address then click the dot).
NBN MTM Alpha (http://nbnmtm.australiaeast.cloudapp.azure.com/nbnmtm.html)

In your home:
Remedying old wiring can give possibly the biggest improvement, people have seen significant improvement in speed and reliability by doing the following:

Before starting this process get a baseline of your modems sync speeds. This is the speed at which data can be transferred up/down with the current line quality. This information is available from the modems management console which you should be able to log into and retrieve. This speed should hopefully be close to what you got from the map above. If it is then your line quality is good - your attention will be more focused on reducing the dropouts.
Disconnect wiring to all outlets other than the one your modem is connected to so you just have the single line running to your modems wall plug(no branches/joins)
ideally have a new cat5/6 cable run from the lead-in (cable that comes from the street) to your modems location.
Make sure the cable is kept away from power wiring
Make sure the cable is not routed near fridges/washing machines/driers etc. The starting and stopping of motors will induce interference in cables run near them causing dropouts.
make sure the modem has clean power - a surge protector can help with this
Check your modems sync speeds again to see if you have achieved improvement - ideally your sync speed will be similar to that estimated on the map above


Once your internal wiring is in order, you can check if any further limitation is related to your connection (poor copper quality or distance) back to the node or is a limitation of your ISP:

If your sync speed is significantly lower than what the map above estimates you should get then it is likely you have an issue with the line between your house and the node. Complain to your RSP so they can have NBN sort it out (good luck).
If your sync speed exceeds your plan then then you should expect to get your full plan speed. Your RSP will limit your speed to the plan. (Use an online speed test tool to check your actual speeds)
if you are getting much less than your plan and less than your sync speed then this points to an issue with your RSP. This will be most evident with slow downs in the evening when more people are online and things get busy. This happens because your RSP has oversold the bandwidth they have purchased from NBN for your locality (this is called CVC). I.E. they have bought capacity for 100 subscribers but sold it to 1000 - while not many are using it performance is fine, but when everyone is using it it is terrible. This is when you need to be looking for a new RSP and as much as people put them down, Telstra is one of the best performers (it's their customer service that lets them down), Aussie Broadband has an excellent reputation on all fronts.
If your sync speed is lower than your plan speed eg plan speed is 100/40 but sync speed is 70/30 then this may well be due to the physical limitations of the line such as your distance from the node - nothing can be done about this.


Unfortunately with FTTN, users need to do everything they can to make sure their home wiring is in order. Getting a licensed cabler to do this is most effective. Once this is done it removes a factor that the RSP/NBN can blame on you.

In your particular case it looks like you need to sort wiring to stop the dropouts and change RSPs to get rid of the slowdowns. If the dropouts continue, there are steps that can be taken to see if the problem is internal or external but, that will be next.

Hope this helps a bit.
Thanks for that helpful advice. Will check it out. Our internal connections are new.
It dropped out again overnight. We never had dropouts with ADSL.
Speed test 11.1/1.7
Your site says 100 is available.
Our plan is 12
So it's not the plan, it's the dropouts that are annoying.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Great post Sean[thumbsupbig]

except it wont find my home,,
and when I physically zoom in its all shaded yellow = " no speed given " which covers the whole of the Sunshine coast [bigrolf]

I am happy with the NBN speed, which is around 3 times what adsl was,, but it does drop out a lot lately,,

[SBD4]

Great post Sean[thumbsupbig]

except it wont find my home,,
and when I physically zoom in its all shaded yellow = " no speed given " which covers the whole of the Sunshine coast [bigrolf]

I am happy with the NBN speed, which is around 3 times what adsl was,, but it does drop out a lot lately,,
Hey Pete, that's because the pillar location near your place has not been identified. If you can locate the pillar yourself then you can send it to "MrMac" on whirlpool and he will update the map accordingly:


If FTTN technology has no estimate (yellow), it is due to the Telstra Pillar not being located. This is required as FTTN speed estimate is based on estimated length of the copper cable from the Premise > Pillar > Node
Feel free to whim me in above if you want to provide Pillar/Node locations. Please map them in Sign in - Google Accounts (http://mymaps.google.com.au) & separate pillars/nodes and send in bulk. Single pillar/node updates are not prioritized due to time

[Tote]

With regard to modems, I opted for the subsidised Fritz box modem that Internode supply. It has good wireless, two analogue phone circuits and even understands pulse dialling and rings the bells in my Bakelite phones. It has also been far more stable than my old TPlink modem that I used with ADSL which usually had to rebooted every couple of weeks.

Internode :: Residential :: Hardware :: FRITZBox (https://www.internode.on.net/residential/hardware/fritzbox/)

Regards,
Tote

[DiscoMick]

NBN blames telcos.

NBN's Bill Morrow attacks 'overcompetitive' telco market (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/nbns-bill-morrow-uploads-attack-on-over-competitive-telco-market-20170731-gxm329.html)

[SBD4]

Thanks for that helpful advice. Will check it out. Our internal connections are new.
It dropped out again overnight. We never had dropouts with ADSL.
Speed test 11.1/1.7
Your site says 100 is available.
Our plan is 12
So it's not the plan, it's the dropouts that are annoying.
Yep, your speed is with in acceptable range of your plan. Make sure you repeat your speed test at busy times of the day to be sure your ISP is keeping up.

Do you have multiple phone outlets? If so then it may be worth while having them disconnected, not at the wall but back where they come off the main line. Because VDSL operates at a much higher frequency than ADSL, it is more susceptible to interference and these additional lines act as an antenna for interference and also can cause reflection of the signal in the wire. Ideally you want just one wire to the wall plug for your modem - no branches or joins.

At the speed you are running at it will be have less of an impact on speed but may assist with dropouts.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Hey Pete, that's because the pillar location near your place has not been identified. If you can locate the pillar yourself then you can send it to "MrMac" on whirlpool and he will update the map accordingly:


Ok,, I'll ask---[bigwhistle]

is this a "Pillar" ?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/08/5.jpg

[Mick_Marsh]

Ok,, I'll ask---[bigwhistle]

is this a "Pillar" ?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/08/5.jpg
Yes, for the old copper network.

Here's a pic of a new one (with the old one in the background).
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/08/6.jpg

[Pedro_The_Swift]

soo Mick, which am I looking for? new or old?
no streets were dug up around here,,

[Mick_Marsh]

soo Mick, which am I looking for? new or old?
no streets were dug up around here,,
I have no idea what you are looking for. Me, I look for any interesting cars or trailers for sale. And properties with sheds.
What are you trying to do?

[DiscoMick]

Telcos are putting NBN customers on a voice-only speed, Morrow tells committee (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/telcos-are-putting-nbn-customers-on-a-voiceonly-speed-morrow-tells-committee-20170801-gxmrs2.html)

[Tins]

I am about 800 metres from the local exchange. Between there and here there is only this:

127211

Is this a node?

[JDNSW]

I rather doubt it - since it is labelled "Telstra". I think it is just some sort of junction box.

The node you connect to is not necessarily between you and the exchange - it could be on your other side, opposite direction, or down a side street etc. But should be within about half a kilometre of you.

[Tins]

I rather doubt it - since it is labelled "Telstra". I think it is just some sort of junction box.

The node you connect to is not necessarily between you and the exchange - it could be on your other side, opposite direction, or down a side street etc. But should be within about half a kilometre of you.

The exchange is also labelled Telstra. but fair enough, I know nothing much about distribution. There are none of those fibro pillars anywhere near me, which is why I asked. I guess I'll look harder.

[Mick_Marsh]

The exchange is also labelled Telstra. but fair enough, I know nothing much about distribution. There are none of those fibro pillars anywhere near me, which is why I asked. I guess I'll look harder.
Look at my picture. A couple of posts earlier. That is what you are looking for.
Me, I have better things to find.

Oh, you'll probably find the node is in a pit.

[Tins]

Look at my picture. A couple of posts earlier.

Familiar with those, Mr Marsh. Seen many a bewildered Telstra employee looking at multi-coloured spaghetti


Oh, you'll probably find the node is in a pit.

Yep, could be. Just haven't seen the same bewildered person with his little tent anywhere here.

[Mick_Marsh]

Familiar with those, Mr Marsh. Seen many a bewildered Telstra employee looking at multi-coloured spaghetti



Yep, could be. Just haven't seen the same bewildered person with his little tent anywhere here.

The multi coloured spaghetti are in those post type pillars. They are the old copper network and will be removed.
The cabinet is where the NBN equipment is. This cabinet will have a number on it, if not vandalised, on a traffolyte label.

You won't see any Telstra tents. NBNCo own these cabinets, not Telstra. You will probably see NBNCo vans.

[SBD4]

Ok,, I'll ask---[bigwhistle]

is this a "Pillar" ?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/08/5.jpg
That's the one!

If you can also locate the node that pillar connects to, that will give the total copper length before your data hits fibre.

Micks pic shows an NBN node in the foreground but a node could look like any of the following and may not necessarily be near the pillar:
FTTN node - Google Search (https://www.google.com.au/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBAU717AU717&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=FTTN+node&oq=FTTN+node&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l4.407204.408719.0.409610.8.8.0.0.0.0.572.1 279.2-1j0j1j1.3.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..7.1.572.Nbdd0rGL0Z4)

[Tins]

The multi coloured spaghetti are in those post type pillars. They are the old copper network and will be removed.
The cabinet is where the NBN equipment is. This cabinet will have a number on it, if not vandalised, on a traffolyte label.

You won't see any Telstra tents. NBNCo own these cabinets, not Telstra. You will probably see NBNCo vans.

Up here they will probably be covered wagons.

[Tins]

You won't see any Telstra tents. NBNCo own these cabinets, not Telstra. You will probably see NBNCo vans.

The point I was making about the tents was I would use them to identify pits. NBN say I have 18 months before I see them up here.

[DiscoMick]

So, the daily drop-outs continue. The Navigator got quite stroppy with an Optus person today. Apparently they are sending someone on Thursday to try to diagnose our drop-outs.
Personally I just think its an inevitable consequence of using copper instead of fibre. The NBN boss said as much in the story I linked to above.
Tonight our 12 Mbps plan is delivering 7.7 download and about 2 upload.
It was interesting the NBN boss said 12 mbps was only good for voice and at least 25 mbps was needed for streaming.
I see Optus offers a 25 mbps plan plus Fetch and Sport TV for $80. I guess that might actually deliver about 15-18 mbps.
I see NBN actually only charges the telcos $24 for 12 mbps and $27 for 25 mbps, so the rest goes to the telcos.
Talk about over-promising and under-delivering a second rate service. Should have just been fibre to the premises I think.

[Mick_Marsh]

So, the daily drop-outs continue. The Navigator got quite stroppy with an Optus person today. Apparently they are sending someone on Thursday to try to diagnose our drop-outs.
Personally I just think its an inevitable consequence of using copper instead of fibre. The NBN boss said as much in the story I linked to above.
Mick, your comprehension is slipping a bit there.
From the story you linked to:

"There have been many fingers pointed in recent weeks about who's at fault here. Some of the reporting and politicking has focused on the NBN network's Multi-Technology Mix as the culprit, but that is simply not true," Mr Morrow wrote.

Tonight our 12 Mbps plan is delivering 7.7 download and about 2 upload.
That's faster than my FTTH

Should have just been fibre to the premises I think.
You can always pay to have it upgraded to FTTH. However, I don't expect that will solve your problem.
If you want fast internet, why don't you do what Homestar did. Get the 100Mbps plan.

[incisor]

soo Mick, which am I looking for? new or old?
no streets were dug up around here,,

nbn hubs up around this way are a green rectangular box sitting on a concrete plinth or slab

[Pedro_The_Swift]

and could be any direction?
hmm,,

[SBD4]

and could be any direction?
hmm,,
Should be within 100M of the pillar.

[Homestar]

Yeah, not that hard to spot - there's 2 in our street, but that's a little unusual. They are about 1200mm tall, 900mm wide and about 600mm deep - easy to spot, they aren't small.

[Tins]

Yeah, not that hard to spot - there's 2 in our street, but that's a little unusual. They are about 1200mm tall, 900mm wide and about 600mm deep - easy to spot, they aren't small.


Nothing like that up here, as the NBN is 18 months away. The thing I can't spot is the circular, upright fibro pillar.

[SBD4]

Nothing like that up here, as the NBN is 18 months away. The thing I can't spot is the circular, upright fibro pillar.
John, they are metal and could be more than 1000M away although supposedly meant to be up to only 500M way.

Read about them here:
The Humble Pillar in the Australian Telecoms Network - Warren and Brown Telecommunications (http://wbtnetworks.com.au/the-humble-pillar-in-the-australian-telecoms-network/)

[DiscoMick]

We're up to 11.1 mbps - who hoo!

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Its a funny exercise Sean,, the old pillars service 200 homes, supposedly within 500m,,
but blocks of units and single roads make this an arbitrary number [smilebigeye]