Beginning of the end of V8 Supercars?

[AllTerr]

Could be.......


Listen to Australia’s controversial new Supercar V6 | Top Gear (https://www.topgear.com/car-news/motorsport/listen-australias-controversial-new-supercar-v6)

[pop058]

Could be.......


Listen to Australia’s controversial new Supercar V6 | Top Gear (https://www.topgear.com/car-news/motorsport/listen-australias-controversial-new-supercar-v6)

Been in the wind for a long time. One clue was that they dropped the "V8" from V8 Supercars. It is just the Virgin Australia Supercars now.

[ramblingboy42]

Speedway Australia has had that sound and that engine basically in the 'Wingless Sprints' series for years now.

Ho-Hum , nothing new here , move along thanks.

[Tote]

Some of the most interesting racing was during the group A days when we had v8's turbo 4s NA sixes, v12s and Rotaries. I can't see much of an issue, they need to get closer to the vehicles that the punters aspire to own though, I don't much like the "shell over a standard drivetrain and suspension" formula much.

Regards,

Tote

[Tins]

The whole thing has been boring since the yobs booed Richards, IMO. I don't care what engines they use, it's been nothing but a silhouette series for decades.

127045

[scarry]

It will be interesting to see how the new super utes,or whatever it is goes.

Could take over from the supercars?

[Chops]

Treat yourselves to a day at the historic races. Real racing, even though only short duels, but a good reminder of what it was like.

[Tins]

Treat yourselves to a day at the historic races. Real racing, even though only short duels, but a good reminder of what it was like.


Winton is a blast. Love it. Not quite the paddock at Calder circa 1969, or Bathurst in the late 60's early 70's when they were doing it for real, but great times nonetheless.

[Pickles2]

Well, as usual, I don't mind going "ägainst the flow", because I love Supercars,...watched Foxtel 506 yesterday, will be watching today (I'm watching at the moment!), & tomorrow as well. Can't wait for Quali later today!
Pretty tight racing, practise yesterday, top 10 cars within .4 of a second, top 25 within a second of each other makes for very close racing.
Yes the TTV6 is being tested/developed by 888 at the moment, it will be used next year, but not by all teams, I'm not sure when it will become mandatory. Parity will be a challenge.
The biggest plus for Supercars recently has been the inclusion/interest created by Roger Penske which has markedly added to the credibility of the category. Roger is one of the most well known & astute motorsport personalities in the World. He loves what we do here, and has said that the technology & competition is as good as anything he's seen. He's going well here too, He's pinched 888's top engineer and the Penske DJR cars are now the benchmark.
I think the new Ute category will be good. Twin cabs are the most popular form of vehicle at the moment, & whilst there has been some resistance from the teams, the new formula is gradually gaining acceptance, as more details become available.
The cost of running a supercar team is massive. Australia is a relatively small Country, so consequently there are not that many local sponsors to chase,...in many instances, competition to obtain, & retain sponsorship, is as fierce as the racing. Whilst I love the racing, I wouldn't wanna be trying to find the dollars,....it'd be a nightmare I reckon.
45 mins to P3!!....I'm now ready to be flamed!
Pickles.
NB:, just a thought, for you "taxi racing" guys. Rather than the actual race, you may find the final practise session in any round interesting, there are normally three of them. So, if you watch P3 (I'm watching it now) it can be interesting to see how the times come down. Following that, later on, watch the 15min qualifying session, where grid positions are determined,.....ya might find these two sessions arre not quite "taxi racing".

[Tins]

Well, as usual, I don't mind going "ägainst the flow", because I love Supercars,...watched Foxtel 506 yesterday, will be watching today (I'm watching at the moment!), & tomorrow as well. Can't wait for Quali later today!
Pretty tight racing, practise yesterday, top 10 cars within .4 of a second, top 25 within a second of each other makes for very close racing.
Yes the TTV6 is being tested/developed by 888 at the moment, it will be used next year, but not by all teams, I'm not sure when it will become mandatory. Parity will be a challenge.
The biggest plus for Supercars recently has been the inclusion/interest created by Roger Penske which has markedly added to the credibility of the category. Roger is one of the most well known & astute motorsport personalities in the World. He loves what we do here, and has said that the technology & competition is as good as anything he's seen. He's going well here too, He's pinched 888's top engineer and the Penske DJR cars are now the benchmark.
I think the new Ute category will be good. Twin cabs are the most popular form of vehicle at the moment, & whilst there has been some resistance from the teams, the new formula is gradually gaining acceptance, as more details become available.
The cost of running a supercar team is massive. Australia is a relatively small Country, so consequently there are not that many local sponsors to chase,...in many instances, competition to obtain, & retain sponsorship, is as fierce as the racing. Whilst I love the racing, I wouldn't wanna be trying to find the dollars,....it'd be a nightmare I reckon.
45 mins to P3!!....I'm now ready to be flamed!
Pickles.
NB:, just a thought, for you "taxi racing" guys. Rather than the actual race, you may find the final practise session in any round interesting, there are normally three of them. So, if you watch P3 (I'm watching it now) it can be interesting to see how the times come down. Following that, later on, watch the 15min qualifying session, where grid positions are determined,.....ya might find these two sessions arre not quite "taxi racing".

I see no reason to flame you. You love it, and good on you. I mourn the days of privateers. Doug Whiteford in his Datto at Bathurst, in fact the whole 'class' thing at Bathurst up against the 'team' cars. When the underdog could win, and often did. The ATCC, where Jags could race Holdens.
It all ended for me in 1992. The Nissans were clearly the best cars by a long chalk, the red flag came out at Bathurst, and the Richards car crashed AFTER the red flag, and the yobs booed Jim cos the Folden didn't win.
The Supercar formula is just that, a formula. Yet people on Monday still talk about the Holden beating the Ford. Sheesh, they're not even genuine shells.
But, I'm a dinosaur I guess. I lost interest in F1 when all the cars had to be the same. And, like F1, Supercars and Nascar all come down to money and TV rights. And hyperbole.
Enjoy it, Pickles. I wish I could.

[Pickles2]

Johntins,..."Money & TV Rights"....gotta agree with you there!
I was really upset when Foxtel got the rights, & what Ch 10 FTA provided was rubbish. Initially, I refused to get Foxtel, my thoughts were "Why should I pay for something that was previously free"? However, a friend of mine is the chief engineer/designer for one of the teams & He told me that the Foxtel coverage would be better than anything I'd ever seen on FTA, and it is, really good,....cameras everywhere, in & out of cars, in the pits, talking to engineers, drivers etc etc,...all good. Not keen on Skaife, but Russell's input is good.
Foxtel had a good deal at the time for a Sports/Combo Deal with free equipment & instal, & I only pay an $25/month for it, so it's well worth it for me, plus I have an "understanding" Wifey, who's also interested in it!
If you do get the chance, like I said, do watch a final practise session, because the way the cars get changed, shocks, springs, roll bars, tyres etc is common to most forms of motor sport,...it can be quite involved & interesting, to see how the times come down.
You mention the Nissan/Godzilla,....what a car that was, what a great job Fred Gibson did with it. I've heard it said that if that car's development had continued, it would be faster than the current V8SC. You mention money, & you're right, but that was relevant then as well, Gibson had a massive budget, & Brock in the HDT days always had plenty of dollars and all the best people like my good friend John (Sheppo) Sheppard, Ian Tate, Neil Burns etc etc.
Pickles.

[Homestar]

Used to love it and I wouldn't have missed a race, but it's become increasingly more irrelevant over the last 10 years, so I stopped watching - I'm sure I'm not the only one. Would love to see something new to revitalise the series, the parity rules are garbage - yes, as Pickles said, very close qualifying and racing, but they're all driving essentially identical vehicles, so it may as well be a single formula racing series like Formula Ford, etc. Love watching those, and they don't pretend to be different like the Supercars do.

Used to love the days when a team could do something's outside the box to gain an advantage and then watch the others catch up.

In the Bathurst 1000, teams could opt for any strategy to gain an edge. None of that now, now they must complete a mandatory amount of stops and driver changes, minimum driving distances per driver, etc. All done to a very controlled and boring formula.

If they bring back some differeces that allow teams to do what they are best at, I'd tune in again (well, not on Foxtel so I probably wouldn't.)

[Tins]

Feeling a bit hypocritical right now. Just got home from an AFL game. Now, if ever a sport was taken over by professionalism and money.....

But I still love it. Go figure.

[Pickles2]

Feeling a bit hypocritical right now. Just got home from an AFL game. Now, if ever a sport was taken over by professionalism and money.....

But I still love it. Go figure.
Money is there in all sports, & if ya're not "professional" ya don't survive, Golf & Tennis are good examples, and what about boxing, the dollars there are unbelievable.
Pickles.

[rangieman]

Used to love it and I wouldn't have missed a race, but it's become increasingly more irrelevant over the last 10 years, so I stopped watching - I'm sure I'm not the only one. Would love to see something new to revitalise the series, the parity rules are garbage - yes, as Pickles said, very close qualifying and racing, but they're all driving essentially identical vehicles, so it may as well be a single formula racing series like Formula Ford, etc. Love watching those, and they don't pretend to be different like the Supercars do.

Used to love the days when a team could do something's outside the box to gain an advantage and then watch the others catch up.

In the Bathurst 1000, teams could opt for any strategy to gain an edge. None of that now, now they must complete a mandatory amount of stops and driver changes, minimum driving distances per driver, etc. All done to a very controlled and boring formula.

If they bring back some differeces that allow teams to do what they are best at, I'd tune in again (well, not on Foxtel so I probably wouldn't.)
My sentiments exactly [thumbsupbig]
I was always gluded to the idiot box when the V8`s were on my family and friends knew not to ring visit or disturb me and i persisted and im guessing maybe up to 10 years ago at least with the bs we have now .
I am a big petrol head having done a few quick laps around Bathurst ,Sandown in a tame V8 race car so the interest is there just not in the platform it is at present .
I will be there in front of the tv for the Bathurst top ten shoot out and the first few laps of a sunday and a bit in the middle and the last hour .A far cry from years ago where the whole day was taken up by watching the Big race.
Do i miss the good ol days hell yeah are we ever going to see them again Hell No it is a big business with some big players incl Foxtell and it is all about the mighty buck ,Look at your AFL players used to play for the love of Footy in VFL for no or very little reward now it is awash with a giant money pit , Sad But True:bat:

[Pickles2]

OK guys, if you read this, & Ya've got Foxtel, watch qualifying today at 11.40,...it's only 20mins, surely you can put up with it for that long!!
If ya're watching the race this afternoon, you might notice that there actually is plenty of strategy going on, more than ever actually, within the rules of course, but very very variable according to track position etc....different fuel loads, different times between stops, varying tyre changes all different to each particular team,....as the cars are so close, under a second for the top 20 cars, races can be won or lost by smart team strategy, running short, running long, if you watch the telecast this afternoon, & listen to the pre race stuff, what the teams are doing, ya'll actually find out there's heaps of strategy going on, much of which will be continually changing during the race, as things change for each car,..track speed is one thing, but it doesn't always win the race. The two HSV cars were the fastest in the race yesterday, but finished way back in 13th & 14th,..just not enough quali speed!
Strategy currently, is probably more evident now, than I've ever seen.
Pickles.
Just one thing, don't judge the racing by what you see on ch 10,...a ONE hour coverage, after the event with at least 20 mins of ads,..absolutely BORING,...yes that telecast is useless & it really does lead to the "taxi racing" slogan, but there is a whole heap more to it than that,...ya've gotta see it to believe it!!

[Homestar]

You said it yourself Pickles - IF YOU HAVE FOXTEL - with their subscriber numbers dropping dramatically with streaming services coming on line, they are way too expensive for what you get. I pay $8 a month (our share of a combined subscription) for Netflix and Stan combined. Add in YouTube (free) which has some amazing content on it now and it sort of makes Foxtel look - well, a bit ****...

[Pickles2]

Like i said Gav, I pay $20/month for my sport/combo deal,..well worth it for me, even just for Supercars,..lots of other stuff I can get too,..classic movies, boxing etc etc,...which doesn't interest me, I think some VFL stuff is restricted to Foxtel too, but I really do get it, that most of you guys ain't into Supercars, but for me, at $20 a month, there's basically 2 meetings a month, 3 days of coverage each, more for the enduros, well worth it for me.....6 days racing for $20!!
Compared to what we spend/have to spend these days, $20 is well worth it for me.
Gotta go & watch quali!
Pickles.

[Tins]

You said it yourself Pickles - IF YOU HAVE FOXTEL - with their subscriber numbers dropping dramatically with streaming services coming on line, they are way too expensive for what you get. I pay $8 a month (our share of a combined subscription) for Netflix and Stan combined. Add in YouTube (free) which has some amazing content on it now and it sort of makes Foxtel look - well, a bit ****...

Foxtel is truly a money pit. I still have it, but only for the AFL and SWMBO's faves. If I can find a way of getting her stuff elsewhere it's gone, as Telstra's Live App gives me the AFL, just not on the TV, and there are ways around that. Netflix is great with a VPN.

[Homestar]

Not sure what deal you got, but their website shows $26 a month for the basic package, and $55 a month if you add sport.

Link to the $20 a month package that includes sport would be handy.

[Pickles2]

Just watched an awesome quali session. The round started of with cars doing mid 10s (1m 10 sec!), quali now over, young Scotty Mcloughlin (says He's living the dream!),,...the fastest driver out there at the moment, driving for DJR Penske, used 3 sets of tyres in the 20 min quali session, he got down to a 1 min 8.4 secs, fastest time ever!
888 have been the fastest for several years, DJR are giving them plenty of worries this year, even though 888 have the very fast Shane VanGizbergen, and Jamie Whincup driving for them.
Pickles.

[Tins]

Not sure what deal you got, but their website shows $26 a month for the basic package, and $55 a month if you add sport.

Link to the $20 a month package that includes sport would be handy.

Wondering that myself. Foxtel Go, or Play, or whatever it's called today maybe?

[Pickles2]

Wondering that myself. Foxtel Go, or Play, or whatever it's called today maybe?
That is because it is not available at the moment. , I got it shortly after the Ch 10 coverage deteriorated, a couple of years ago, when the deal I got was being promoted., Foxtel do have specials from time to time, so I guess you just have to keep an eye out.
I was a bit worried that when I renewed my Telstra deal they would take it away from me, but they can't, but to be honest, even if they did, I wouldn't be without it,...I used to go to Calder, Sandown, Phillip Island, Winton etc, but I see & hear more now, than I ever did on site, the camera coverage on Foxtel, being as good as I was told it would be...Anybody watch quali?..... .8 of a second between the top 24 cars!!...pretty close.
Pickles.

[Homestar]

Seems you're the only one, which sort of shows how much they've strangled their audience by going this way - good or not, it precludes too many people who can't afford to watch it making it even more elitist - just like every other form of Professional motor sport now. It used to be the Car racing of the masses here in Australia, but no more. :(

[Pickles2]

Seems you're the only one, which sort of shows how much they've strangled their audience by going this way - good or not, it precludes too many people who can't afford to watch it making it even more elitist - just like every other form of Professional motor sport now. It used to be the Car racing of the masses here in Australia, but no more. :(
Gav, ya just can't isolate Supercars, like I said there's VFL stuff that is in the same boat,..only on Foxtel. Boxing is the same, I love a good boxing match, I watched ALL the Ali fights FTA,....when is the last time ya could do that,....I can't get that sort of stuff, ya've gotta pay $80 a fight or something, I think the Horn fight was around that,...wouldn't dream of it.
I suppose I should refer to the O.P's title of this thread,..."End of V8 Supercars". Well, of course I'm a big fan, but would I be surprised if that were true?..No, I wouldn't. Would I put any dollars into a team?...No I wouldn't, and in view of the state of local manufacturing in this country, I continue to be amazed how the teams obtain sufficient sponsorship to run, sometimes 2,3, or even sometimes 4 cars,...but they do.
And, like it or not, believe it or not, the sport IS going well, and is in demand. Ipswich (today's event) in conjunction with the Qld Govt has just signed up for 10 years, the first thing that the Tailem Bend track did is try to get a Supercar round, Winton & Phillip Island are still endeavouring to lock in their supercars future in competition with proposed overseas rounds, and finally EVERY state Govt in Aussie is keen to be involved, and continue to be, invariably you can hear the State Premiers during the telecast.
So, against all odds, it's actually looking pretty good at the moment. THIRTY cars on the grid for this race,..Compare that with the early nineties (Group A) when there were only NINE cars on the grid for the Sandown 500.....Then a man called Cochran came along.....!!
Race about to start!!....Shell cars got blown away at the start, Jamie is looking good, 60 laps to go,..lots can happen! Pickles.

[Homestar]

So because 'everyone' does it it's ok?

Hmmm, strange concept - sounds like that old saying 'If your mate jumped off a bridge would you jump to?'

Anyway, don't watch footy, or any of that other stuff mentions anyway, so that's of no concern to me at all. Subject was the Supercars, the only thing I was (at one stage) interested in.

Despite my bitching, I am really happy that you still love the sport the way I did (probably more by the sounds of it) at one stage. Hope you enjoy the race. :)

[Pickles2]

It's all good,..."everyone" is exactly it,..it the damn way of everything, look, I prefer simple things myself, I used to go to racing events all the time, never missed the Sandown 500, I was the first person to suggest to Jon Davison that He should do something with the "vacant space", behind the grand stand etc existing at Sandown during touring car events, in the late eighties/early nineties.
So, I convinced him that we could have a car display, and I organized the first few myself for the HSVOC, we'd have around 40 cars, we got free entry for car & 2 people, Wifey & I would be there around 7.ooam in the morning admitting our cars, handing out passes etc,.....it got stopped many years ago,...."need the space" was the reason, which they did, because plenty the organizers were getting paying stall holders etc to occupy the space we got for nothing. It's now a big "Circus" in that area, & it's the same at other circuits,...not saying I like it, that's probably why I don't go, but it has to be that way to pay the bills!
Pickles.

[AllTerr]

Well, when I titled the thread, I was referring to the "end" being the story about the trialing of the turbo V6... Can't call it V8 Supercars if it switches to V6 (like F1) in a couple years .... ;)

[Pickles2]

Fair comment Railey.
But the jury is still out on that,...ya really can't say that, at this stage, because, as far as I know, there has been no decision made as to not using the V8.
One reason for the continuance of the "V8" is the Mustang, which IMHO is a shoe in to be a runner. The other thing I "think" could happen, is that Camaro (it will eventually be built RHD) could be run by "Holden" teams, thereby continuing in some form the Ford V Holden (G.M.!) competition that we've had forever.
Lots of things to play out in the coming year or so. Me?...I would like V8 to continue.
Pickles.

[ramblingboy42]

I'm with ya Pickles.

For the cost of one entry ticket to a supercar event, plus travel plus parking plus time you can see all the events on foxtel, plus, plus plus.

[Pickles2]

I'm with ya Pickles.

For the cost of one entry ticket to a supercar event, plus travel plus parking plus time you can see all the events on foxtel, plus, plus plus.
Exactly.
Did you watch today, & if so, what did you think?....great racing I reckon.
Pickles.

[pop058]

Fair comment Railey.
But the jury is still out on that,...ya really can't say that, at this stage, because, as far as I know, there has been no decision made as to not using the V8.
One reason for the continuance of the "V8" is the Mustang, which IMHO is a shoe in to be a runner. The other thing I "think" could happen, is that Camaro (it will eventually be built RHD) could be run by "Holden" teams, thereby continuing in some form the Ford V Holden (G.M.!) competition that we've had forever.
Lots of things to play out in the coming year or so. Me?...I would like V8 to continue.
Pickles.

I would not hold my breath on that one. [bigwhistle]

[ramblingboy42]

Exactly.
Did you watch today, & if so, what did you think?....great racing I reckon.
Pickles.

yes, plus 2 codes of football

when is too much sport not enough?

F1 tonight

[Ean Austral]

Wifey & I were having dinner with the redbull drivers before the Darwin round and I asked both Loundsy & Janie about the changes and where they admitted to testing the V6 they still believed the V8 was here for a few years yet. Shane was at the other end of the table so I could ask him.

The 5.0 mustang is sold here so they were of the opinion that GM would move to a US based model and it would continue as a Ford Vs GM thing for years to come.


Time will tell I guess.


Cheers Ean

[Pedro_The_Swift]

so,
autographs?
pics?
pit passes?

the seafood pass muster?[bigwhistle]
[bigrolf]

[Ean Austral]

so,
autographs?
pics?
pit passes?

the seafood pass muster?[bigwhistle]
[bigrolf]

All of the above except the seafood, was only barra on the menu. Usually have dinner with the drivers a couple of days before the race weekend.
Helps being 1 of the biggest Caltex customers in Darwin, get treated very well come supercar time [biggrin]

Cheers Ean

[Pedro_The_Swift]

:ttiwwp:

:bat:

[Pickles2]

Wifey & I were having dinner with the redbull drivers before the Darwin round and I asked both Loundsy & Janie about the changes and where they admitted to testing the V6 they still believed the V8 was here for a few years yet. Shane was at the other end of the table so I could ask him.

The 5.0 mustang is sold here so they were of the opinion that GM would move to a US based model and it would continue as a Ford Vs GM thing for years to come.


Time will tell I guess.


Cheers Ean
Thanks for that, "straight from the horses mouth" so to speak, but yes, I reckon the V8 will be around for a few years yet.
Pickles.

[Ean Austral]

:ttiwwp:

:bat:

If you can post them for me then I can send them to you for posting. for some reason I cant post pics on this or another forum. I can send them to someone phone if they PM me a number.


Cheers Ean

[Tins]

I would not hold my breath on that one. [bigwhistle]

Given it started life on the Commodore platform it's hard to see why not, if, of course, there was a business case to do so. The Mustang got to be RHD for the UK market mainly, so if it sells there maybe GM will follow suit. But it will be far easier for GM than it was for Ford, so who knows?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

and as to the very first post,,

I'm hoping its the beginning of the beginning of Super Cars,,

I hope we see (huge) turbo charged Minis run against Mustangs,,

[Tins]

and as to the very first post,,

I'm hoping its the beginning of the beginning of Super Cars,,

I hope we see (huge) turbo charged Minis run against Mustangs,,

Is Peter Manton still with us???

[rangieman]

Given it started life on the Commodore platform it's hard to see why not, if, of course, there was a business case to do so. The Mustang got to be RHD for the UK market mainly, so if it sells there maybe GM will follow suit. But it will be far easier for GM than it was for Ford, so who knows?
How long were you involved in the engineering phase of the Camaro:Rolling:,
When i worked at the Holden PG the only under pinning`s that resembled anything to the DunnyDore was the rear suspension ,
We did all the engineering in Aus for the Camaro it certainly does not mean it is any part or form of a DunnyDore[wink11]

[pop058]

Given it started life on the Commodore platform it's hard to see why not, if, of course, there was a business case to do so. The Mustang got to be RHD for the UK market mainly, so if it sells there maybe GM will follow suit. But it will be far easier for GM than it was for Ford, so who knows?

I think the business case is going to be the biggest hurdle.

[Pickles2]

Is Peter Manton still with us???
"Skinny" as He was known, he had 126BHP!!
I remember him well, my next door neighbour Alan Braszell ran a sports sedan mini, was VERY good friends with Manton's engineer, who, after Skinny retired, was the source of a good supply of Mk 11 blocks, crankshafts, and all sorts of other "good stuff".
Alan had the quickest "Super Mini" in Aus for a while. Those of you that remember Mini racing in the 70s would no doubt remember him, He also raced a Mini at Bathurst,..not very successfully,....probably because, as is usually the way, He was under funded!...would have to be that, 'çause there was absolutely nothing wrong with his driving ability!
I was fortunate enough to be taken for a few laps around Winton in Alan's Mini, him driving, & me sittiing in the front seat of the Mini hanging on to the roll bar. They were pretty quick around those tight circuits.
Alan ran in Sports Sedans, which for a while was the same class in which Alllan Moffat ran his Mustang. I remember my friend Alan telling me that coming into corners, He was sometimes able to get past Moffat, only to be almost blown off the track when Moffat blasted past him in the straight, ..He said that Moff invariably raised his had in recognition, as He went by!! Like others have said, "Those were the days"!
Pickles.

[Ean Austral]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/07/814.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/07/815.jpg


heres a couple to start , want more ??

Cheers Ean

[Ean Austral]

In the corperate box before the race.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/07/817.jpg


Cheers Ean

[Ean Austral]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/07/819.jpg

Start grid before the race.


I got heaps Pedro from over the last 6 yrs , want more ??

[pop058]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/07/818.jpg

Start grid before the race.


I got heaps Pedro from over the last 6 yrs , want more ??


Any of Craig's green eyed monster ?[smilebigeye]

[Ean Austral]

Any of Craig's green eyed monster ?[smilebigeye]

Not real sure I want to ask . Was that when he had the car painted up the year before ?

Cheers Ean

[pop058]

Not real sure I want to ask . Was that when he had the car painted up the year before ?

Cheers Ean

A little while ago in one of Craig's past lifes. [bigwhistle]

127157

[Disco-tastic]

I dont get time to watch much racing these days, but like many i am a bit tired of watching the v8s on telly (yes pickles, in may have been the lacklustre FTA coverage [emoji14] )

Found this video (might've even been from here) of a young fellow (Jordan cox?) in a civic. Absolutely fantastic driving

Short version
CRAZIEST MOTORSPORT PASS EVER - Honda Civic vs Holden Commodore - Bathurst 12 Hour Support Race - YouTube (https://youtu.be/N81cEqZEDVQ)

Long version
Civic vs. V8 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/BnQP95aVv04)

And then this
Improved Production Car Championship 2017. Race 2 Adelaide Street Circuit. Amazing Battle for Win - YouTube (https://youtu.be/NMcN6SQrtcw)

Awesome racing.

[Tins]

"Skinny" as He was known, he had 126BHP!!
I remember him well, my next door neighbour Alan Braszell ran a sports sedan mini, was VERY good friends with Manton's engineer, who, after Skinny retired, was the source of a good supply of Mk 11 blocks, crankshafts, and all sorts of other "good stuff".
Alan had the quickest "Super Mini" in Aus for a while. Those of you that remember Mini racing in the 70s would no doubt remember him, He also raced a Mini at Bathurst,..not very successfully,....probably because, as is usually the way, He was under funded!...would have to be that, 'çause there was absolutely nothing wrong with his driving ability!
I was fortunate enough to be taken for a few laps around Winton in Alan's Mini, him driving, & me sittiing in the front seat of the Mini hanging on to the roll bar. They were pretty quick around those tight circuits.
Alan ran in Sports Sedans, which for a while was the same class in which Alllan Moffat ran his Mustang. I remember my friend Alan telling me that coming into corners, He was sometimes able to get past Moffat, only to be almost blown off the track when Moffat blasted past him in the straight, ..He said that Moff invariably raised his had in recognition, as He went by!! Like others have said, "Those were the days"!
Pickles.

Those were the days?? I meant Skinny back in the days of the Neptune "Trident" days. Foley, McKeowan (?), Jane, Beechey, Firth, Ian Goeghean, Glenn Seton's dad Barry. The days before Moffatt traipsed all over the countryside trying to attract sponsorship for his Cortina, before Peter and Phil Brock were doing MotorCross.

Oh dear, Moffatt's Mustang.... What a car.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/07/820.jpg

[Pickles2]

What a car, I prefer it with its original Minilite wheels.
I remember when Moff tried to sell it for $300K in Aus, & the U.S., before it was eventually sold to the Bowdens,....crikey, what would it be worth now, I'm no expert on Mustangs, but I believe it is one of seven (built by KarKraft?), & I also believe that Ford GAVE this car to Moff!!,......as we've said a few times in this thread,.."those were the days"!
Pickles.
MOFF'S MUSTANG:..check this out.

Allan Moffat's 1969 T/A Mustang. (http://www.bowdensown.com.au/collection/allan-moffats-1969-ta-mustang)

[Tote]

I reckon there's a lesson in that Mustang story for the CAMS administrators. Build a formula that allows companies to race cars that the punters can relate to and it will translate to sales. If Ford see value in partnering with Tickford to add a 2 inch lift and some flares to the Ranger surely there's a promotion possibility in designing a production car race category that encourages manufacturers to build road cars that have more of a relationship to road cars than the current NASCAR clones. The demise of local manufacturing brings a whole raft of new manufacturers who would be able to contribute.

Regards,

Tote

[shanegtr]

I love watching the supercars racing, but Im stuck watching the average ch10 highlights. I cant personally see the point in paying for foxtel - but thats another story.
I dont mind the fact that the racing is not like it used to be, I enjoy the parity thing and it puts the difference down to the driver/team and strategy rather than all out $$$$ to build the quickest car (which still applies somewhat) which IMHO leads to some boring racing when the leaders just blast away. F1 to me fits into that catergory as the top teams are miles in front of the back markers. To me the V8utes where awesome - bit of biff and barge close door to door racing, could do with a bit more of that style in supercars (acutally just more of racing like scotty mac and jamie whincup when they race side by side - thinking of this 2014 V8Supercars Clipsal 500 Race 2 Finish - Scott McLaughlin vs Jamie Whincup - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jezbabdxFc))

And theres no requirement yet for the teams to ditch the V8 engines as the configuration rules are allowing for any engine style. With the amount of previous money spent on engine development I dont think the V8's are going anywhere in a hurry just yet. I predict that nissan (providing they stay with the series that is[thumbsupbig]) will be the first team to switch the whole team away from V8 power.

Getting side tracked from V8's - I actually enjoy the concept of formula e (apart from the car swap midway through a race). Its probably on of the few racing series that building a big lead dosent really have much advantage. If a driver can conserve energy early they have more in reserve at the end - again its the strategy that I enjoy. Its actively building on tech that will filter down to road cars too so thats interesting.

[Pickles2]

I reckon there's a lesson in that Mustang story for the CAMS administrators. Build a formula that allows companies to race cars that the punters can relate to and it will translate to sales. If Ford see value in partnering with Tickford to add a 2 inch lift and some flares to the Ranger surely there's a promotion possibility in designing a production car race category that encourages manufacturers to build road cars that have more of a relationship to road cars than the current NASCAR clones. The demise of local manufacturing brings a whole raft of new manufacturers who would be able to contribute.

Regards,

Tote
Well, I think a bit of what you're suggesting is the reason for the new specs of the Ute series which will involve Diesel Twin Cab Utes, and I think it will be good.
I'd like to see what you're suggesting in cars too, but I'm not quite sure how that would work? Of course there's a multitude of makes, models in all manner of configuration available in Aussie, but many of them have a zero performance image, nor are they looking for one.
So, I can't work out which actual models could relate to a racing car formula, involving parity, etc etc, so with that in mind, have you any ideas which specific makes, & models of which, you could see taking part?
In case you think I'm "having a go", I'm not, I love tin top racing, & I'm interested in any thoughts relative to it.
Pickles.

[Tote]

I guess I was thinking of a complete reboot of the old multi class racing, it would not be easy though and would need to be led by CAMS as the manufacturers aren't going to do it. The whole series would need to be pitched to the media organisation televising it, the manufacturers that would be supplying the cars and would need to run for a couple of years. The biggest issue would be the competing requirements of driver safety vs the racing spectacle that led us to a formulaic standards based series today. There are a few vehicles out there like Nissan 370z, Subaru WRX, the Volvo S60 Polestar, the Mustang, Maybe a Hellcat 300C? (if you could get it to go around a corner)

If this is sounding like a pitch for a reality show maybe that's the way it could be done, the issue in the past with production based racing like the Bathurst 12 hour is that they could never get any traction because v8 supercars had all the coverage and the money. One of the best parts of the Group C era was the "innovation " that individual teams came up with to get an edge. Using formula based cars eliminates this, I know a lot of people who think it should be all about the drivers but I'm not one of them.

Regards,
Tote

[shanegtr]

I can see GT3 taking off in the future to be the main race series. Only downer is most of the cars in use are beyond the reach of the masses in the road legal versions

[Pickles2]

I guess I was thinking of a complete reboot of the old multi class racing, it would not be easy though and would need to be led by CAMS as the manufacturers aren't going to do it. The whole series would need to be pitched to the media organisation televising it, the manufacturers that would be supplying the cars and would need to run for a couple of years. The biggest issue would be the competing requirements of driver safety vs the racing spectacle that led us to a formulaic standards based series today. There are a few vehicles out there like Nissan 370z, Subaru WRX, the Volvo S60 Polestar, the Mustang, Maybe a Hellcat 300C? (if you could get it to go around a corner)

If this is sounding like a pitch for a reality show maybe that's the way it could be done, the issue in the past with production based racing like the Bathurst 12 hour is that they could never get any traction because v8 supercars had all the coverage and the money. One of the best parts of the Group C era was the "innovation " that individual teams came up with to get an edge. Using formula based cars eliminates this, I know a lot of people who think it should be all about the drivers but I'm not one of them.

Regards,
Tote
I can see what you're saying, but it would be almost impossible to get it to work, IMHO.
Take the S60 Volvo for example, GRM did a brilliant job promoting Volvo, won races with it, lifted the profile of Volvo markedly,...but Volvo didn't like it, so pulled out. Hellcat 300C, or even the Challenger Hellcat,..yep,...spectacular wheel spinning road cars (American Muscle,..Love it!), but I can't see them being converted to a racecar, nor much interest in them, or any factory involvement, in view of the very small numbers of those cars sold in Aus.
Even in the U.S. where they sell squillions of cars, they don't have big time races for road cars.
In Germany, I think they have DTM where the likes of AMG & BMW etc race each other, but those cars are even further removed from road cars than Supercars, and the cost??!!!...Doesn't bear thinking about.
G.B. did/does have a British Touring Car Championship, I don't know what sort of cars they run now, last time I saw it they were running 2L FWD stuff like Focus, Honda etc,...not a patch on our Supercars IMHO.
Actually, Roger Penske said there's nothing like what we do anywhere else, He thought what we do here is as good as anything He's seen anywhere recently.
So yes, I definitely know what you're saying, but I can't see how it could be made to work, I also believe that Aussies definitely like their V8s, which raises another issue,..how long will V8 continue? I believe the best thing that could happen is that GM build Camaro in RHD (which IMHO they will have to do to compete with Mustang), then we could at least have a GM V8 Vs a Ford V8, which I think would work OK.
As far as the TTV6 engine is concerned, I think Nissan are quite interested in that as they have a range of appropriate engines that could be made to work. But their involvement with the Altima certainly didn't generate any sales! Like I said, I think any car raced has to have some sort of performance image (which the Altima hasn't) for a sales benefit.
I reckon that if I was responsible for Supercars, I'd have nightmares worrying about how I'd keep it going. I could waffle on for ever, but I have no idea what sort of mix is needed to attract a successful combination of manufacturer, sponsor, spectator, media/TV support.
Pickles.

[Tins]

in the road legal versions

There are no "road legal versions" of the Supercars either. They have nothing at all in common with a car you can buy bar the silhouette.

[Pickles2]

There are no "road legal versions" of the Supercars either. They have nothing at all in common with a car you can buy bar the silhouette.
"Road Legal"?..well at 670 HP that would be pretty exciting Lol!. But, I still think "The silhouette" is quite important, because they do at least have a similarity to the road car.
I guess the question is, what "silhouette" will they use in the future?
Pickles.

[shanegtr]

There are no "road legal versions" of the Supercars either. They have nothing at all in common with a car you can buy bar the silhouette.
I only mentioned the GT3 and the street versions because you always hear people complaining that supercars have nothing in common with a car you can buy for the road - where as GT3 you can (if you got the $$$ that is)

[Tins]

I only mentioned the GT3 and the street versions because you always hear people complaining that supercars have nothing in common with a car you can buy for the road - where as GT3 you can (if you got the $$$ that is)

Oh, I got it, Shane. And I agree. We can't all be Jim Richards. The Supercars are worse though. Their budgets are in the millions. I laugh when I hear some bloke in a lunch room bragging that the Holdens won on the weekend. At least the Porsche you see is actually a Porsche.

Said it before, I'm a dinosaur on this topic. I want the days when you COULD go and buy a GTHO or an XU1 or A9X or E38. I know they are gone forever, but I miss them.